Failsight

I'd agree that the animations shown will, more or less, be final with perhaps only 1 or 2 exceptions if testing proves that there really aren't enough fast activating attacks.

However, considering Castle (and BaB's) recent work with new formulae taking into account animation time, as well as the fact that there seems to be a whole lot of KD/KB in the set, and that it is also, as far as one can tell, all extra-melee range (i.e. it looks like pretty much every attack has a range greater than 7 ft.), there might be enough "perks" to warrant the longer animation time while not gimping the set.

I agree. Honestly, if looking at the the entire DP set via cross-power examination, I wouldn't touch it.

Not to say it's a bad set, but it's split between being a damage set and a debuff set, so it really doesn't excel at being either. Build with that in mind, and I think Corruptors can really win out beyond Blasters or Defenders with DP.

With some IOing, it will be pretty easy to soft cap S/L on DP/Dark with Black Scorpion's shield. Add to that the control of Dark and the debuffs of DP and you can be a force.

I wouldn't really say a good supply of big damage AoEs...a pair of ST attacks that have splash damage, a decent damage cone (against anything not energy resistant) early on and one big AoE on a timer that begs for Hasten and IO slotting, yes.

That being said, I do love the Elec Melee set. It has a very unique feel to it.

I still wouldn't write off an Elec/SS build that would basically just repeat Punch, KO Blow, and Footstomp constantly, though.

Pistols is a solid DPA attack and will help get you through the early levels especially. Executioner's Shot and Piercing Rounds are the two biggest hitters in the set--I have no idea why people would suggest skipping these, I'd suggest missing Hail of Bullets, the T9, before those two attacks. I'd have to say Empty Clips for it's somewhat longish animation and weak damage. While Rain of Bullets is not much better, it is at least easier to target with, and setted out, I'd take it ahead of Empty Clips by a long shot.

20 times seems like hyperbole to me, even (or especially) with a large sampling. That is, unless you're comparing with only Stone Tankers in Granite all the time. Yeah, those will kill slowly. But take the entire Tanker population and the entire Blaster population? You're probably only looking at 2-3 times faster with just a Tanker-Blaster combination.

Now, add in massive amounts of debuffs (and buffs) and that number will grow much larger.

I want to personally go on file as stating that not only is it fine for Tankers to slot their attacks for damage, but that they have no excuses not to. Most Tanker primary powers only require 4-5 slots top, some only 2-3. Considering how damage does factor into aggro generation, and that the fact that any source of damage that provides a net plus to damage is a good thing and will help a team run smoother, Tankers really should slot for damage.

Finally, the only Tanker primaries I usually suggest to take Taunt are Stone and Willpower, due to lack of mobility and lack of strong taunt aura respectively. A well-played Tanker otherwise should really see the power Taunt as a luxury so that they don't have to work so hard moving all over and covering for trigger happy teammates.

I have an SD/SS that's been my favourite Tanker, perhaps favourite character, since I started her. SD starts off with reasonable survivability (understanding that HP and Res trump Def in the early game, but that Def can trump both in the late game, it's important to order your slots and enhancements to reflect this) and eventually makes up for the weakest spot that Tankers has: damage. Rage, Shield Charge, and Footstomp together are enough to wipe out pretty much all white minions and most yellow minions, as well as making a nasty dent in anything else, it is probably the best late game mob buster amongst Tankers.

With SD for Tankers, it's very easy and relatively affordable to hit soft-cap, which turns SD from merely solid to an absolute juggernaut, which can still fall back on a decent T9 for times when defence gets debuffed by a large amount.

Lastly, the alternate animations for SS are pretty sweet: KO Blow's two arm swing actually ends up being a massive Shield Bash(!), Hurl becomes one-handed, and Footstomp becomes ground pound (while ducking behind shield).

I haven't played much with either Axe or WM with Shield, but honestly, the alt animations for SS with Shield sold me alone.

Something's bothering me a bit here: considering that the trade-off for SD and Inv are that they are not damage auras, they are auto-hit and have longer taunt durations, why do they need Taunt any more than, say, Fire? Ice and Dark are understandable as they have multiple aggro auras, but Invul has one of the strongest taunt auras (not coincidentally tied with SD's AAO) in the game, only really behind those that have multiple auras.

WP on the other hand? That's always a tricky one. Blasters can peel aggro off any WP that's not both well built and well played.

As for SS, its aggro managing ability depends a lot on how fast you can get the recharge for Footstomp, similar for Dark that does have two PbAoEs with taunt ability. They're both not inherently the best for aggro, but both certainly function well enough to easily beat out the real aggro loser amongst Tanker Secondaries: Energy Melee. Oh, Whirling Hands (and long animations)....

Just taking the last part of Silas' post, but it's on the money. The problem with Tankers and Defenders especially is that one AT's inherent only helps it do its job--period--and is already overlapped by another AT (Brutes) while that other AT gets another inherent to boot.

Tankers' inherent is the only thing that lets them do their job, and is shared with another AT so they can do theirs. Otherwise, they already trade better survivability (caps--also shared--, health, and base values) for having less damage by having their primary and secondaries set the way they do.

Defenders have a pretty useless inherent...or at least one that is only really good as a set of training wheels. It also does not expand on the AT's role at all.

Corruptor damage gets a boost in damage beyond its 10% AT base difference in Scourge.

Dominators at this point have probably the sweetest and oddest setup of all ATs considering their now inherent dual nature of crowd control and damage, with the ability to restore their own endurance, provide reliable critical control, and have mez protection all from their inherent.

Besides Fury, Brutes get the higher caps, which is pretty much part of their inherent--Brutes seem to be about having limitless room to grow in the right battle conditions. Something that is somewhat exploitable on teams.

Even Stalkers have their new control element and crit boost on teams. It's actually pretty handy if you know how to leverage it.

Controllers also have an inherent that helps them outside of their main role in Containment, as well as helping their role.

Scrappers...need no help.

Blasters got revamped to help their role and have some kind of ability to counter mez, as well as a health boost to make them less glass cannons.

Masterminds are already unique.

All EATs have useful inherents alongside their unique structure.

While Defenders and Tankers aren't necessarily broken they could still use a look when considering their inherents.

Defenders need a boost in what they do more than Tankers do. Just sayin'.

None of mine.

I already did for one character, because I personally enjoy the SD/Elec combo for Tankers than the Elec/SD combo for Brutes--way easier to softcap and SD helps mitigate (somewhat) the damage difference to a point where if I'm on a team, that extra Brute damage would have probably had little impact, while the extra survivability may end up making the difference.

My SD/SS is perhaps my favourite character of all time now, especially with the new custom difficulty settings. It's great fun to plough through 0/8 missions.

Of course, one of my other favourite characters is an SS/WP Brute, and I'm mostly enjoying the ride with my WM/WP Brute. Either way, they feel somewhat more Scrapper-y (a good thing) and I don't really think of aggro management on a Brute other than as a Fury-building mechanic.

Honestly, I think a lot of people will the same way about many of their existing characters: if they enjoy them, they're not going to switch. At least, not between Tanker and Brute.

Tankers and Brutes are different enough that I don't see the issue there. Even Scrappers and Brutes conflict more (in which case I'll take the Brute over the Scrapper most times given the same combinations are available).

I will have probably made my last Defender or Controller when GR hits, though--my personal preferences lean towards Mastermind and Dominator in both cases, again assuming the relevant overlapping powerset is available. Not to say I don't enjoy my Rad/Nrg or my Ill/Storm, but I chose those combos (especially the Ill/Storm) to help offset the limited damage of those ATs, where the presence of their buffs/debuffs is more important than their strength compared to Defenders.

Between Brutes and Tankers, I feel different, however: without those aforementioned buffs (of whatever strength), a Brute may have difficulty surviving long enough to do the Tanker's job--I've seen it too often, where a "Tanking" Brute is doing fine, but as soon as the buffers get bored and wade into the action and get themselves thrashed, the Brute, with no buffs anymore, themselves get hammered due to the aggro they've collected. Whereas, a Tanker may not require the buffs to survive, and overall team damage far makes up for the individual damage a Brute could have provided.

Not that that's the only way things work (obviously not), but that's the best part of this game: there's always a number of ways to accomplish something.

Ultimately, GR will allow for a larger number of character concepts, both hero and villain (and between), and probably won't affect AT percentages on a large scale much, though it may for individuals.

Technically, it is more like Hide than Stealth due to being able to auto-crit from it. But yeah, its stealth component is much less than Hide for Stalkers.