EvilRyu

Originally Posted by JayboH

Trick Arrow needs some love, but FF and Sonic don't. I think Liquefy should be on a shorter timer and that's about it.

Too many people like the sets as they are - they get to use their secondary set more often or be able to grab pool powers that they might want more, and having skippable powers helps in that situation.

There are ALOT of skippable powers in FF, that is very true, and I agree it would be nice if it had additional effects that would make them worthwhile, but like I said there might be quite a few people that prefer FF so they can blast more often.

Originally Posted by William_Valence

So with the upcoming balance adjustments to various sets, I started thinking about what else might need some looking at. So putting on my armchair designer hat, I came up with a list of sets that are underperformers compared to others of the type. Narrowing the list down to a few, for discussion purposes, I’ve got; Trick Arrow, Force Fields, Sonic Resonance.

In my opinion these sets suffer from similar issues. Sonic and Force Fields are designed to do two things well with some extra things that don’t really expand their utility thrown in every so often. Force Fields buffs defense and provides knock-based control in high levels. The problem is, when these things aren’t needed, Force Field players provide nothing else.

In a Melee heavy team, Knock based protection is a hindrance more than a help, and in large group, multi-team situations stacking defense only goes so far. In fact, a single FF defender can cap a team’s defense severely hampering the stackablility of another FF on the same team. Also in situations where knock would be valuable mitigation due to the overwhelming power of an enemy (AV) it doesn’t actually work reliably. Once you hit those breakpoints Force Fields players become a tagalongs and not teammates.

The fix seems fairly simple in my opinion. Add something else for the Force Fields player to use that improves its ability to stack in team situations as well as it’s versatility of effect in situations where the two things it does aren’t viable or needed. The target is Repulsion Bomb. A modification to this power, adding a scale 1 defense and resistance debuff and a scale 2.5 regen debuff, would vastly improve the versatility of what the set is able to do when assisting teams and its ability to stack on teams. The name might need to be changed to fit thematically, something like Disruption Bomb but that's a minor thing.

Sonic has a similar issue. It is meant to buff and debuff resistance to higher levels than other sets. However there are certain issues with that. First half of its power is only available on teams. Second they can only allow it to debuff resistance so much else it becomes just too strong. Despite that, the level of resistance debuff it gets isn’t high enough to justify it only attacking one area of the enemy’s defenses, which really hurts it when much of that power isn’t available solo. Additionally, due to the way resistance works, Sonic suffers from being less balanced when facing high resistance foes, causing it to lag behind. Sonic does -45% resist to a single enemy affected by both sonic siphon and Disruption field and -22.5% in an AoE around an ally only (So only -22.5% is available to a Sonic when there’s no allies and that just happens to be it’s AoE debuff). Storm, Trick arrow, dark, and cold follow up with -30% in AoE form, that is not dependant on having a teammate and also debuffs defense. Radiation and thermal can both match Sonic’s -22.5% in an AoE form to boot while also debuffing regen and defense, and Traps debuff at -20% but is up for a minute and is AoE and debuffs defense.

This wouldn’t be so much a problem, so long as Sonic’s buff capacity were high enough, but its not. Thermal has two shields identical to Sonic’s and trades its AoE resistance buff for an AoE heal. Thermal also possesses mez protection, and still manages to debuff more areas than Sonic. When you look at all the powers, including T9, thermal debuffs resistance by -22.5, defense by -20, regen by -500%, Damage by 50%, and maintains comparable mitigation capability. Sonic debuffs resistance by -22.5% ST solo and -45% in a team with that team-only -22.5% being AoE, and -25% defense and tohit in AoE.

What I think needs to be done for sonic, is to add -22.5% damage debuff and -200% regen debuff to the three debuff powers; Sonic Siphon, Disruption Field, and Liquefy. Also, half of the regen debuff in Sonic Siphon should stack, and maybe some of the damage debuff. This would allow sonic to compete against the versatility of the other sets, while sticking to its strengths. Against high resistance enemies, it would still struggle, but it would have –regen to assist in taking those enemies down. Against everything else it would have a –damage (that also follows the high resistance weakness), improving sonic’s ability to keep the team alive even further. It would still have the Solo/team dichotomy, but that’s acceptable when the solo debuffs do more.

As for Trick Arrow, the issues I see with it are, that it pays way too much endurance for what it does and does too little out of fear of stacking. Taking a look at disruption arrow vs, Tar Patch you see they both have the same 25’ radius, but Tar patch slows as well as debuffing resistance twice as much, yet tar patch costs 7.8 end while disruption arrow costs 14.6. Also, they both have the same uptime, but Disruption arrow has lower recharge and duration making it cost even more end/sec.

Suggestion (corruptor values): Reduce the endurance on Disruption arrow to 7.8, and up the resistance to -30% and add a -15% damage debuff. Increase the radius on acid arrow to 15’, and reduce the endurance cost on OSA to 10.4.

What do you think, does this sound about right with regard to what the issues are with these sets? Are these suggestions viable and acceptable fixes for the problems that face these sets?

Originally Posted by Jibikao

I would rank Energy Melee as the worst set on Stalker. Total Focus only criticals a small portion and Energy Transfer doesn't even critical and the set has zero aoe.

I am not sure why Scrappers want Energy Melee that bad. Kinetic Melee wins by a large margin.

Energy Melee with the old ET... sure.

Originally Posted by Agahnim

If you unsubscribe you stop getting vet rewards.

Originally Posted by MajorPrankster

Now THAT'S bitter.

Never happened, not once. No team kicks, no team wipes, nada due to KB. Knowing how to use it is part of the fun.

Using KB does not equal bad player, no matter how much some posters might think it does.

If you don't enjoy KB, IMO, your loss. You have, I hope, people you like to team with just as I do though, so we can both enjoy the game.

The difference is I am not advocating for a change to fundamental mechanic in the game as some players do, I accept that some players like some things I don't but I expect the same courtesy.

IME, the only place that KB is ever discouraged is on these message boards anyway. I have not once on any team in City, ever, had a player say anything about anyone's KB, mine or another players. Some people seem to think that means they are just 1-staring the KB user and then quitting for another reason after a mission. So what? Obviously some players will mesh for any number of reasons where others will not.

As always, it's great to see the hyperbole and bitter angst over KB though.

I know it's never going to be removed, so no matter what, I get to continue to enjoy it.

Originally Posted by BrandX

Weird. Seeing as how the KB powers that do damage can kill enemies, how is KB an enemy survival boost?

KBed followed up by another KB power enemy is dead. :O

Or do those non KB powers one shot enemies all the time?

Originally Posted by Moly

Its ingrained in the community unfortunately. In almost two years of playing I've never seen the mythical team wipe due to KB, even when KB powers were being aggressively used. Go figure.

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

Reconstruction and Dull Pain have unresistable heals. The mechanic Hami uses to stop healing is granting you heal resistance. Heal resistance does not work to stop regen's heals. It is good to be a regen in the LGTF.

Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba

Does that extra minute per mission that occurs because of some knockback really matter all that much? It's not like you're not still steamrolling through everything.

Originally Posted by Obscure Blade

Another vote for this. I like having KB in blaster powers, it helps keep them alive.

Originally Posted by Wavicle

TA has been buffed multiple times since it was originally released. It is by NO means an underperforming set these days.

Originally Posted by Colossal

With today's IO's and incarnate possibilities I think making IH a toggle would be way too much, seems like it would just be far too overpowered. I will agree that Regen needs Integration to pick up a taunt aura but besides that I think it will compete just fine in survivability with all the other sets (note I said compete, not be better or worse than any other set).

Originally Posted by Zombie Man

Ever been to a Hami Raid?

Where there is unresistable damage, Regen is king. Period.

Regen has no 'holes' in their defenses, either. Psi damage, toxic damage... it's all the same to Regen. The Psychic Clockwork King is no bit scarier than any other AV.

Can other defense sets do better in other situations? Sure. Is Regen always the first man out... hardly.

Originally Posted by anonymoose

Heh, find a TF where somebody has one of the shield powers that are now AoEs. The newfound ninja survivability will make you a happy MM.
Even better, upright ninjas are damaging ninjas, you'll feel like a fully contributing member of the team.

Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent

As a general rule, tweaking individual powers is a bad idea when there are broader imbalances to address. Better to step back and deal with the big picture first.

For instance, the sudden appearance of non-stacking, non-autohit, single-target debuffs that started appearing after PvP was introduced. The idea doesn't work for Weaken and Envenom; it doesn't work for Sonic Siphon or Infrigidate, either. These powers all have recharge time constraints, and should therefore all stack. Stacking doesn't make Siphon Power or blast debuffs overpowering (or even particularly popular), not in PvE, not in PvP either -- any PvP balance fears about stacking debuffs are unfounded.

For another instance, powers that have the same name but, confusingly, do different things because one version of the power had to be nerfed for whatever reason. The fears leading to these nerfs never pan out -- if it's balanced for one AT, it's balanced for everyone else, see Psi Blast for blasters. Poison Trap doesn't make Traps overpowering (well, at least not more overpowering than other high performing buff/debuff sets), and it'll be fine for Poison too.

In sum, there's a more systemic problem in buff/debuff power design, a problem likely arising from unfounded PvP balance fears. Fix this problem system-wide, and this may just fix Poison without having to fine-tune or change powers.

Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master

i dont see why you would lose the power, so i doubt that you would lose it

i wouldnt worry about it

Originally Posted by Jibikao

You can't stack Build Up twice but there are times you can score two Build Ups (using Concentrated Strike after placate gives you a chance to score two Critical). It just refreshes Build Up recharge twice... as far as I can tell.

Concentrated Strike only recharges the timer. It doesn't give you a buff directly. You still need to click Build Up so scoring two criticals doesn't mean you get two BUs.

Originally Posted by CBeet

The thing to remember is that regeneration (the mechanic, not the set) works by a % of max HP. Brutes have more HP, so regen will be more survivable on a Brute than Scrapper.



Considering you'll (presumably) be in an 8 person team for such, yes. Team buffs, other players taking aggro, mez etc. And if you're not in a full team, what're you doing trying to solo x8 without IOs? A regen's worst enemy is spike damage, which can be stopped by a well timed Dull Pain, popping oranges/purples beforehand, or teaming with a Controller/Dominator/Corruptor/Defender/Tank/Another Brute (sharing aggro). That's not even touching MoG before you run in, which can be up for every other group.

I've seen vanilla WP Scrappers and Brutes be downed just as fast as a Regen because of overwhelming spike damage, and in those cases, at least the Regen had inbuilt panic buttons to try and survive it, and half the time they do, which isn't to say that WP doesn't, just it has as much of a chance by itself on SOs.

I'm looking forward to Regen Brutes, going to pair it with Titan Weapons when that comes out and throw in 50-100m for some quick +recharge/hp, a nice casual character living on the edge.