Enantiodromos
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First-- on review, I guess WoC's only an 8' radius? That's disappointing.
Quote:Okay, I'm never convinced I calculated it right last time.Originally Posted by Dread_Shinobi
70%? Very nice, I didn't even think of the overlap.
AA's confuse is base 3.725 second mag 3 pulse every 2 seconds, 30% chance, nonstacking, 1 second delay.
At +95% duration enhance, that's 7.264s duration.
At second ~2, it's a 30% confuse.
At second ~4, it's: 51%
This pulse: 30%
Prior pulse: 21%
Neither: 49%
At second ~6, it's: 65.7%
This pulse: 30%
Two-prior & prior: 6.3%
Two-prior: 14.7%
Prior: 14.7%
None: 34.3%
At second ~8, it's: 72.18%
this pulse: 30%
Prior Pulse: 21%
two-prior pulse: 14.7%
three-prior pulse: 10.29%-> 6.48% [1]
None: 24.01%
[1] This is the one that's screwy. Three pulses ago can't last through this entire two-second segment. The best it can do is 1.26 seconds out of this segment, or IOW 63%. So that three-prior-pulse thing of 10.29% becomes 6.48%
The gradual stacking across the first 8 seconds ought to be accounted for, if it's going to be compared to a flat AOE cast. If we agree a fight lasts forty seconds, the average % chance coverage over time becomes 65.079%
Even then, some might legitimately object that the first fifteen seconds or so of a fight are where controls matter, normally. I'm sure anybody can see why opinions might differ of this power, based on where you're using it and for what. -
Quote:That's also wrong. You get more XP from using confuses.Originally Posted by Pans_Folley
Ok, I didn't get as much xp because I used confused. By using confused on the mobs, I received less xp than I would have had I not used confused. Using confused allowed me to give up xp I had the potential to earn.
I'll defend the word because it's the same thing to me. You see it differently, fine, that's you're accepted term. "Lost" is mine. It's not a mistake. It is my point of view. Thank You for respecting my point of view.
And yes, you're definitely misusing the word "lost" assuming we're both speaking english.
Points of view don't deserve respect[1]. Some are simply better than others, e.g., "2+2=4" > "2+2=5". If you want to be fawned over for having some opinion, any opinion, I think that's pretty incompatible with a place where the norm is reasoned discussions based on facts.
Your point of view is misinformation. That's why it needs to be discussed.
[1] This is an important point with me: it's people, not ideas, that deserve respect (or, well, I would say: compassion). If you're implying I have to respect your ideas in order respect you, I strongly disagree. You're more important than your ideas, and generally have been pretty reasonable, here, considering you understand confuses incorrectly and I'm admittedly a little frustrated trying to help you understand them. -
Quote:You're not following the conversation-- or you're deliberately merging two distinct issues.Originally Posted by Folonius
So by your definition of lost, I could follow a sewer team of lvl 1-6 around with my lvl 50 fire/kin with hot feet turned on and it would be ok. They aren't losing experience because they never had it.
I never said anything like: greifing somebody was "OK." That's your own invention.
So, do you want to talk about 1) whether your case represents lost XP? Or 2) whether it represents something BAD for XP?
1) It's not lost XP because it can't be earned. Obviously.
2) When I originally broached why it's wrong to call this XP lost, I pointed out that this illusion-of-lost-opportunity dealie we've been talking about just now, is only the first of reasons it's utter nonsense to say the XP's lost. "You can't lose what you didn't earn," is only the first part of what's at issue.
Hotfeet XP distribution is VERY different from confused mob damage XP distribution. This is the part that's actually arcane and requires somebody to pay attention to an obscure explanation of what goes on. OR, to take the word of somebody they trust has studied it thoroughly.
It's worth talking about. I've included that talk in I think just about every guide that touches on confusions, that I've ever written.
But people make up these nonsense cases as though they "prove" that confuses are bad for XP, and utterly fail to make a meaningful point. Like "fire/kins following a sewer team."
Yes,the sewer team would not be earning, and therefore not losing, XP.
No, it's not OK, it's using a power to actually limit XP opportunity.
And no, this case has nothing to do with confusions, which don't do anything remotely like your example, because confused mob damage affects XP differently than unteamed ally damage. -
Quote:When it's fully slotted for duration, AA becomes effectively a 70% (I think that's right. Something like that...) chance mag 3 confusion, because of the potential overlap. WITH all the other crazy moveslow/afraid/rechargedebuff, it's a beast in the hands of anybody who can survive it's ~3 second warmup.Originally Posted by Dread_Shinobi
AA = 30% chance for mag 3 confusion
WoC = Mag 2 confusion, 20% chance for mag 1 confusion
Contagious confusion = 33% chance for mag 3 confusion
The mag isn't bad, its more about the unpredictability that those chances actually go off, that makes it ice slick better soft control. However unlike ice slick, the confuses can be used with frostbite. -
Quote:If I had to choose between (fully slotted) Ice Slick and AA, no question in my mind I'd want AA. Really, both are even better. I'd be more inclined to say skip Flash Freeze, Glacier, even Shiver. It's a shame about not having Hurricane for the right circumstances, and I've always taken it eventually on /storm controllers, but I can see delaying it, for sure.Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
I have an Ice/Storm that has been sitting at around level 35 for a while whom I might dig out solely because of World of Confusion. I was wondering if AA + WoC + the Contagious Confusion proc would be as good as I think it would. As far as skippable powers in such a build... would Ice Patch maybe be a decent candidate to think about getting rid of? I'm definitely going to be getting rid of Hurricane and I was thinking that locking things down with my AoE Immob and then using Tornadoes, Lightning Storm and Freezing Rain to help destroy things with a proc'd Snow Storm and AA and Jack Frost beating them up.
Would this end up working alright?
WoC + fully slotted AA would indeed be awesome. Did they slip WoC into a controller Epic when I wasn't looking? I've been wary of putting contagious in toggles because, I thought they nerfed that or something. -
Quote:"Buffbot" is one of those one-word arguments that are used far more often than mean anything. If you play a fire/kin in the 22+ range who doesn't SB, you're massively underperforming your potential (including cases where it's because you're soloing). You'll obviously want to avoid intentionally massively underperforming-- it's something that will disappoint most players, and if that's how you're playing a fire/kin, you're effectively skating on people's [goodwill + ignorance of what you're doing].Originally Posted by Folonius
Assuming a controller has to buff is foolish. I play fire/kin's without taking SB, Ill/Emp without taking heal other or clear mind, and FF without taking the single target shields. If you want a buff bot, invite a defender. I'm able to plow through things as a controller as if I were a tank, and anyone that is able to do that is much more useful than a buff bot.
We don't "have to do" anything. See also my guide to the word necessary. Normative play often involves people being *kicked* for not SBing as a 22+ controller (as well they should be, though I rarely do this myself), and, if FR were more broadly understood, the same could be said for not using it. -
Quote:A: What's really at issue, and can legitimately be called "lost" is XP opportunity. Confusions can cause lost XP opportunity.Originally Posted by IronYeti
My question is, how else would you put it? At what point do you claim to have earned that XP, such that you can "lose" it? Sure it can go away, out of the game, but that's the game's loss, not yours directly. I can see how confuse can make the game lose XP, but I don't see how it can make a player lose (earned) XP.
That's exactly what everybody who's talking about something being lost is really talking about, whether they know it or not-- the lost opportunity on a GIVEN mob. Once you wrap your head around that, it's effortless to see that in a system of infinite opportunity like the game presents, the loss of finite opportunity is meaningless. -
Quote:Originally Posted by EricHough
Unfortunately, as thorough as Enantiodromos guide looks to be it is also a little hard to follow - so take as a simple example the case where you do 50% of the damage to a mob and something else does the other 50% of the damage (say a player who is not grouped with you). In this situation you would only get 50% of the xp. This is the normal case.
Actually I've written about it in several guides. The sections in some of the other guides might be more accessible than what's in the Confusion/Time guide.
But the essence of it is that the XP distribution tweak is only half the story. It is self-magnifying because if you're doing 50% of the damage, you're also spending proportionally 50% the time on the spawn, since team damage output is steady over time (though it fluxes.) -
Quote:You. You are whining (aka raising concerns) about something exactly like "lost" XP from mobs despawning. I agree that's a stupid thing to whine about.Originally Posted by Pans_Folley
Who's whining about lost xp from mobs despawning? If I have it right, you're the one who brought that point in all on your own. As a matter of fact, I pointed out how stupid it was of you to make that kind of point to begin with, as nice as I was about it the first time.
I'm left thinking you don't know what the word "lost" means.Quote:You seem to be pushing the point that if you didn't inflict the damage, then you don't deserve the experience. No Kidding - That is called "lost" experience. You can get yourself all twisted up about if you like, I think this is a lot of fun, but the fact remains, the xp was lost do to damage from the confused mob. Plain, Simple, End of Story.
Do you realize, you've just agreed that all mob HPs you don't take away with damage amount to "lost experience?" Do you get that that's exactly the point of my comparison?
How... on what planet.... is XP you didn't earn "lost?" That something is lost implies that you had it. You never had it. It can't be lost.
So... uh... did you read the thing you quoted back? If you had, you'd realize it doesn't use the word lost, and it doesn't TALK about a situation in which XP is lost.Quote:Oh, and you may want to check out that guide of yours. It's not entirely correct. ---- You lose out on the exp when a mob takes damage from a confused.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Mind_C...Mass_Confusion
BTW-- that blurb was part of the official description of Mass Confusion back when the power actually DID cause you to lose XP-- before the confusion reward scheme was changed.
Don't attempt to refute something if you can't be bothered to read it.
Look-- seriously. You just misused one term-- "Lost." It's not lost XP. But lots of people make the same mistake, and you can quit defending it any time. -
Quote:Dismissing what's wrong with your analysis by reducing this all to our "opinions" misses the point. We're not talking about our favorite color, we're talking about how the game plays.Originally Posted by Snakebit
That's fine, that's your opinion. My opinion is that any toon that can easily solo a spawn with a mix of bosses, lt's, and minions in a size beyond what is encounterable in solo missions is performing well.
The game plays so as to appeal in some ways and not in others. [1] Those kinds of appeal are more readily available to people playing on 3+ man teams.
Normative play in the game is 3-8 man teams. The game's constructed around that ideal, and it massively rewards it over and above solo. Moreover, there's TONS of stuff that's essentially or strictly unavailable to solo play at all.
So "what X can solo" is, all opinions aside, a bad way to rate a set's performance. With most sets, it wouldn't be too far off the mark, but with some, like Mind, it is. Mind's much better at soloing than at anything else. And as a controller it is readily able to manage aggro with Mass Hyp.
Besides which, again, there're tons of builds that can outperform Mind soloing in danger zones, so it's not even clear that mind doesn't underperform based on the "solo danger zone spawn" test.
[1]For example, you can't play backgammon in CoX, even though they could set up backgammon interfaces. You can't really play soccer in it, despite the availability of propel artifacts. -
Quote:No. Actually there was quite a bit more than that; scroll up. Or see my guide. Your inability to pay attention doesn't make the evidence go away.Originally Posted by Pans_Folley
It's a real stretch to compare lost xp on mobs you're engaged with to all mobs generated within the game. I'm sadly disappointed that this is all you could come up with. Seriously, are you even trying?
And no, it's not a stretch at all. It's XP you didn't earn. You can't lose it.
The stretch is where you think you deserve unearned XP. It would be ridiculous to whine about lost XP from mobs despawning. It's exactly as ridiculous, for exactly the same reasons, to whine about XP opportunity shifts due to confused mob damage. -
I'm with Local with re: speedboost. In terms of the xp/time performance on a team, the fire/kin (i'm aware they do nice damage for a controller), is better off stopping to SB his teammates (and for that matter, to ID the non-melee types, except against a minority of foe types).
The best way to understand the choice not to SB and ID is actually this: some people are more obsessed with having their own character do the actual direct-to-foe flashy effects that make them look heroic.
Ordinarily, when somebody with build access to SB or ID chooses not to take/use it, it's because they want to have the spotlight to themselves, even if it means the team performing worse.
And yes, BTW, this is substantially true of the choice to play anything besides a controller or defender (or, redside, a corruptor). -
Quote:No, you didn't. You never earned the 200 XP. You can't lose something you didn't earn.Originally Posted by Pans_Folley
Do I get full xp for a take down when a confused mob has taken some shots on my take down? No. I get a percentage of xp based on the amount of damage I delt vs the amount received by a confused. The full potential could be say 2000xp. I get 1800 out of the 2000xp. I've lost 200xp because of the confused mob.
Not Impossible - Fact.
If that's lost XP to you, you should be FURIOUS about the fact that, all over the game, all the time, everywhere, spawns are de-spawning. Right now. Every single one of those mobs in spawns that despawn is "lost" XP according to you (who thinks he deserves XP he didn't earn.)
So stop and think about it. What you're really concerned with losing is not the XP you didn't earn. It's the OPPORTUNITY to earn XP.
And no opportunity can be lost when opportunity is infinite, which it certainly is in play.
There is no sense whatsoever in which XP is lost due to confusions.
Don't sweat it. You're just mistaken to call it lost XP. Lots of people make the same mistake you are. No big deal. -
Quote:The thing about this argument I don't get is: why do you think it's persuasive? How does "I can do X with A" speak to the relative performance of A vs B through G?Originally Posted by Snakebit
Funny how I'm able to solo hazard zone spawns in CF with my underperforming damage lacking mind troller.
I mean, you could argue:
1) Mind is the ONLY set that can single-target-sleep a mob! It is INFINITELY better at ST sleep than any other set in the game!
2) Mind is the ONLY control set that can do actual repel! It is INFINITELY better at repel than any other control set in the game!
3) Mind is the ONLY set that can do terrify without -toHit. It is INFINITELY better at terrify-sans-toHitDebuff than any set in the game. (There are conceivable situations where you wouldn't want terrify to have a to-hit debuff.)
So, there we have three ways in which Mind massively outperforms other sets.
The problem is, those things OBVIOUSLY don't matter. They don't amount to doodly squat across broadly normative game play.
The same is true, needless to say, of effectively STing huge spawns to death in hazard zones. I can do that too. I have. Many times. Out of boredom. I play lots of Mind-- most likely because I'm a masochistic dreamer. And I've also done it on a Plant/Rad, Fire/Storm, an Ice/Rad, Plant/Kin, and others. It's certainly not a special strength of Mind-- most of these will danger zone sweep better than mind/*. And by any objective measure it's (even) more tediously repetitive than the normative teamed mission doors and TFs, as well as much slower XP. -
Quote:Yeah, me too.Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
I disagree with just about everything in Wavicle's post.
Mind control is underpowered. -
Quote:I don't mean to belabor this, but it's kind of a habit to do so, and as somebody just got through saying, there needs to be more awareness out there. (If I played more dominators I'd go there and browbeat people.)Originally Posted by Pans_Folley
I have been kicked from a team because of their fear of lost xp when I used my seeds of confuse. They just don't understand the advantages to it. I think more awareness needs to be put out there.
After really tracking it in solo, the xp loss is about 8% - 15% for mins. 3% - 10% for Luts. 1% - 6% for boss. It is so well worth using the confuse vs. the small amount of xp loss. You can finish fights faster and can finish mish for the bonus xp faster that in no time, you've over come the small amount of loss.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to lose XP because of a confuse, in any sense at all. Just to deal with the narrowest sense:
XP on mobs that you don't get because a confused mob damaged the mob, is NOT lost-- you can't say you earned it-- you didn't-- so you can't say you lost it.
The closest you can get to saying a confuse caused you to "lose" something, is saying that it causes lost opportunity. There are other reasons this is more broadly untrue, that have to do with how confusion XP distribution schemes work. But in the narrowest sense:
Opportunity of the sort "lost" is not at all limited. IOW: infinity minus one, is still infinity.
Again, I cover the rest of the reasons that confusions are actually an XP bonus elsewhere. And not to nitpick your word choice (sorry), but when people say XP loses you something, they're saying something that's completely, unreservedly, wrong.
Sorry you got kicked by people. That's highly lame. -
Quote:I doubt anybody thinks you're a fool based on what you've said here. I don't. I think I already said this, but I'm quite sympathetic to at least one of the things you said you wanted to do.Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
...basing everything on semantics and twisting my posts around to make me look like some sort of fool, and I don't see any point to it except to make other people feel like fools.
Also, I didn't form the impression you use your primary to the exclusion of your secondary; we were on about something a little subtler than that.
I'll take that with a grain of salt, as I was civil throughout. I really think it's important not to characterize people-- at least not negatively, which is why I avoid it. Anyway, that's what I take civil to mean, aside from various issues with bodily noises that aren't possible here.Quote:nothing more than a forum bully ... there are much more polite and civil methods to educate people... 
I get that you don't like that I don't think one of your inviolable decisions makes much sense. Either way, obviously that's settled.
Strange as this may sound given Empathy's meh reputation (and I boost for it more and more lately, no idea why), it might suit (I don't remember you saying you'd played it). The most click intensive buff is still in application (and you can always claim you don't have much recahrge in it), and the PBAoEs a awesome, especially once you max out recharge. Just ignore the ST heals. Plus fort on pets is nice I hear.Quote:And just to clarify: I don't mind AoE buffs like AM or Empathy's auras. I just don't like the buffs like FF's or Thermals shields were I have to click, buff, click, buff, click, buff, etc. etc. -
This replaces my previous "Choosing the Controller that's Right For You" guide and is current for I15, I guess.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=188054 -
APPENDIX A: TERMINOLOGY
This section explains some of the terms and abbreviations commonly used to discuss controllers.
AoE: Area of Effect. Except where otherwise noted this means that with this power, you select a foe at range, click the power, and every foe within so many feet of the targeted foe is affected by the power.
Single-target, ST: With this power, you select a foe at range, click the power, and the foe is affected by the power.
PB(AoE): Point Blank. Means that the effect of the power is centered on the person who casts the power.
Anchored: Means an AoE that is centered on something other than the caster, usually a toggle. Foe-anchored effects center on foes. There are even three defeated-ally-anchored powers: Fallout, Vengeance, and Power of the Phoenix.
Cone: An "arc of fire," a power that affects every foe within a certain distance and radius from a centerline between the person using the power and the foe selected when the power is clicked.
Placed: Means that clicking the power gives you a location placement reticle, that you can move around with the mouse cursor to anywhere you can see within a certain range, then click the mouse to select where the power will have effect. In this parlance, placed effects are immobile. Other powers also provide the location placement reticle, e.g., pet summons and powers that teleport others.
Toggle: Powers that persist in an active state, once clicked, as long as you can pay the endurance, someone comes along and uses a power that can turn your toggles off, or you turn it off yourself.
Long Recharge/Fast Recharge: Distinguishes a class of powers that have "cooldown" periods of 240 seconds or more, from those that recharge significantly faster.
Buff/Debuff: Powers that improve the details of allies' fighting ability, or worsen foes'.
Aggro: Situations where foes become aware of yourself or your allies, and begin attacking. Nearly every power that affects foes causes aggro, but a few don't.
Aggro Management tool: A power that can prevent (groups of) foes from attacking your team, but NOT while your team is attacking them.
Pet: An independent mobile object summoned by a power. Usually follows the person who used that power around. Pets do various things, but usually add at least somewhat to damage output, and usually split some aggro off for themselves. Some bring extra control. They're also buffable.
Pseudopet: An independent power summoned by a power. Often but not always immobile and invisible. Often indistinguishable from a(n ordinary) placed power.
Control Type Effects
Here's what various control type effects do to foes:
Hold: Stop attacking, stand still, and drop toggles, for a given length of time.
Confuse: Stop attacking and start buffing your allies, and stop buffing and start attacking your foes. IOW, changes the alliegance of a foe. Ordinarily these do NOT cause aggro.
Disorients/Stun: Stop attacking, meander slowly about, and drop toggles, for a given length of time. The two words mean the same thing, interchangeably.
Intang(ibility): Stop attacking, stand still, and become immune to all attacks, for a given length of time.
Sleep: Stop attacking, stand still, and drop toggles, until he next takes damage, or for a given length of time, whichever comes first.
Terrify: Stop attacking and stand still, except while he's being attacked, for a given length of time.
Afraid: Prefer to move away from an area (the power), for a given length of time.
Immobilize: Stand still. (Also, in most cases, become immune to knockback.)
Move slow: Move more slowly.
Foe teleport: Change foe's position.
Knockback: Moved in line away from person using power, a fixed distance, and momentarily stops attacking while getting up.
Knockup: Knockback that points upwards.
Fractional Knockback aka Knockdown: Falls to ground, momentarily stops attacking while getting up.
Pulsing knockdown field: AoE effects with an ongoing chance to cause knockdown every fraction of a second, for a given length of time.
Repel: Moved in a line away from the person using the power, while the power is on. (Does not cause foe to fall down or otherwise stop him from attacking).
Ally + stealth: Reduces the distance foes are able to see allies, and therefore, distance of aggro.
Foe -Per: Reduces distance able to percieve your allies, and therefore, distance of aggro.
Foe -recharge: Reduces the speed at which powers "cooldown" and become available to use again.
Foe -stealth: Counteracts the reduction in distance a foe is visible due to +stealth powers.
Metaterminology
Slow: A power that has both Move Slow and Foe -Recharge
Mire: A power that has both Move Slow and Afraid.
Hard: Control powers that prevent foes from attacking, even while they're being attacked. Includes stuns, confuses, holds, immobs, Slows and Mires.
Soft: Control powers that only prevent foes from taking actions while they're not actively being attacked-- includes sleeps, Terrifies, and Intangibilities, and by extension, foe -per and even ally +stealth-- although most would not agree with calling an ally buff a soft control.
Total: Powers that, if effective, entirely prevent foes from taking actions against your allies. Includes stuns, confuses, holds, sleeps, Terrifies, and Intangibilities.
Partial: Powers that, if effective, only partially prevent foes from taking actions against your allies. Includes Immobs, Slows, Mires.
Hard Total Control: Stuns, Confuses, Holds
Soft Total Control: Sleeps, Terrifies, and Intangibilities
Hard Partal Control: Immobs, Slows and Mires, pulsing knockdown
Soft Partial Control: NONE
Note that knock* powers are difficult to place in this scheme. They are total controls, in the sense that they completley stop a foe from doing things. But they don't drop toggles, and they are ordinarily very short duration, and when they are pulsing knockdown fields, are probably more accurately described as hard partial controls.
APPENDIX B: MY EXPERIENCE
To give you a gague of my experience, here's the list of controllers I've played to 14+ (at least, the one's I've not deleted, and rarely do I delete anything that makes it to 20):
Fritter: Fire/Storm L50
Dr. Maningzhoue: Mind/Empathy L50
Chigung Princess: Mind/Kin L50
Genesis Factor: Plant/Storm L50
Dandeleona: Plant/Rad L50
Actaeon: Mind/Rad L44
Fre0n: Ice/Rad L39
Orbital Resonance: Gravity/Sonic L38
Dr Phlogiston: Mind/Empathy L29
Mars Atmosphere: Gravity/Storm L21
L'Alchimiste Vert: Plant/Kinetics 20
Captain Oxygen: Fire/Kin L14
Abominable Huntsman: Ice/TA L14
I've been playing since release, and actually got to use confusions back in the day before their XP yeild issue was fixed, and certainly for quite a while before containment and the global defense nerf. There's still a part of me that's an oldschool controller at heart-- safety first! But at the same time, I'm reasonably adaptable, and have had a lot of fun with the high-aggression builds. Concept and effectiveness are my reasons for playing a particular combo. Lack of concept has kept me away from Illusion and Earth, not their effectiveness. Likewise, concepts have kept me in Mind/ builds, not their effectiveness. Meanwhile obviously raw power is what led to me coming up with concepts for many of the builds I've played, especially secondary choices-- Fire, Plant, Kin, Storm, and Rad have always been rewardingly effective, in my experience.
If I had to make final recommendations to somebody looking to play 1-3 controllers in order to experience the AT, I guess this is what I would come up with:
Make sure to play 1 classic power controller: Fire/ or Illusion plus /Kinetics or /Radiation.
Make sure to play 1 splattroller: Fire/ or Plant/ plus /Storm or /Radiation
Make sure to play one of the heavy AoE controllers: Earth/ or Ice/ with pretty much anything. (Take Ice if you've already played Fire.)
Consider playing a more versatile or small-team controller with good defensive buffing stuff, I'm thinking probably /Empathy or /Thermal, probably with Mind/ or something you've not played yet from above. -
V. COMBINATION SYNERGY
Herein, I will discuss combinations of these powers from my point of view. This is not a comprehensive review of all possible sets. If combinations you're interested in don't get mentioned, or if you have doubts about what I say, refer to Appendix B when you wonder if I know what I'm talking about. Also, I'm not even sure all these items are really "synergy" so much as "things I've noticed." YMMV.
Mitigation And Aggression
Primaries that are exceptionally good at mitigation, mostly AoE control (Ice and Earth), versus the particularly aggressive (Fire, Illusion, Plant) can be combined with either the sets that are best at defensive de/buffing, controlling, or healing (Empathy, Thermal, Sonic, Forcefield, Trick Arrow) or otherwise (Storm, Kinetics and Radiation).
Decisions to combine good AoE controllers with strong defensive sets should take the following into account:
- Once foes are well controlled, defensive powers from secondaries are largely useless-- and to a lesser extent, vice-versa.
- The game is rarely very dangerous in ordinary play; 4 out of 5 archetypes ordinarily bring more defense than they need to play (Blasters would be the exception).
- Debt is negligable and often, defeat isn't even a significant nuisance.
And wheras these things suggest that combining defensive primaries and secondaries may be limiting,
- Even the most aggressive controller build brings more than its fair share of defense to a team, whereas
- The usefulness of aggressive powers is much more gradually capped than those of defensive powers.
For these reasons, look for positive synergy between aggressive primaries and defensive secondaries, defensive primaries and aggressive secondaries, and between aggressive primaries and secondaries.
Highly Defensive Sets:
Earth/Forcefield
Earth/Thermal
Earth/Sonic
Ice/Forcefield
Ice/Thermal
Earth/Trick Arrow
Earth/Empathy
Ice/Sonic
Ice/Trick Arrow
Ice/Empathy
The above are sets that will impress really only in specialized situations, where unusual amounts of defense are necessary. If you plan to play with very clumsy pickup groups doing Task Forces, or if you plan to play with a bunch of blasters, you might want a highly defenseive set as above. Otherwise, a more balanced or more aggressive build will be more rewarding.
AoE Damage
Primaries with steadily available AoE damage or foe-scaled damage (Plant and Fire, to a lesser extent, Mind), that have good AoE Containment (Fire, Earth, Ice, Plant, Gravity), when they are matched with sets that have good resistance debuff (Trick Arrow, Radiation, Storm) or foe-scaled damage buffs (Kinetics), can leverage these three factors together into meaningful damge on mid-sized and large teams.
Plant/Kin
Plant/Storm
Plant/Rad
Fire/Kin
Fire/Storm
Fire/Rad
Plant/TA
Fire/TA
Solo Function
Sets that solo best are Fire and Illusion, because of their pets, but also Mind prior to 32. Some secondaries bring advantages to soloing as well. /Kinetics is good at self-buffing, and /Radiation does a lot of foe debuffing that only gets better if you can tightly manage which mobs are killed first. Sonic and Forcefield also bring certain advantages to solo play, including their toggle self defenses.
Fire/Kin
Illusion/Rad
Fire/Rad
Illusion/Kin
Mind/Kin
Mind/Rad
Fire/Sonic
Fire/Forcefield
Illusion/Sonic
Illusion/Forcefield
Mind/Forcefield
Mind/Sonic
Small Team Function
Empathy and Thermal have buffs that can be kept up on around 3.5 teammates at a time-- and 4-5 man teams are, because of how the game divides XP, actually optimal in some ways. In smaller teams, overwhelming AoE control becomes less important, and surgical control and damage output moreso, hence Mind/ and to a lesser extent Gravity/, Fire/, and Plant/ can bring contribute more effectively to a small team than to a very large one.
Small Team Builds:
Mind/Empathy
Mind/Thermal
Grav/Empathy
Grav/Thermal
Fire/Empathy
Fire/Thermal
Plant/Empathy
Plant/Thermal
Long Recharge Hard AoE Controls
An interesting synergy to explore is that two secondaries-- Trick Arrow and Radiation, have long-recharge AoE Holds. All the primaries have at least one long-recharge AoE Hard Control. With both powers well-slotted, a controller can do every fight what he might otherwise only be able to do every other fight. For primaries like Mind, with two such powers (Mass Confusion and Total Domination) a third such power means really nice availability.
Mind/Trick Arrow
Mind/Radiation
AoE Stun
It's worth noting that Storm Summoning has Thunderclap and Forcefield has Repulsion Bomb-- both are AoE Stuns. What's nice about that is that there're three sets, Earth, Fire, and Gravity, that have very effective AoE stuns.
Earth/Storm
Fire/Storm
Gravity/Storm
Earth/Forcefield
Fire/Forcefield
Gravity/Forcefield
These combos will be able to stack Thunderclap or Repulsion Bomb on top of their main AoE Stun, and stun multiple bosses, which can be handy, as well as take a second shot at stunning minions that were missed the first time.
Holds
Holds occur in all the primaries as a ST and a long-recharge AoE, but also a third time in Mind Control, as a ST Hold and an AOE hold in Trick Arrow, and a pair of PBAoE holds in Radiation. Stacking any of these allows for holding bosses.
Positional Synergy
Some primaries and secondaries have powers that will make you prefer to be much closer to the center of combat. Others will require you to line up cones, others will give you the advantage of range, and still others will give you options that are actually placed effects. Picking a "mode" -- point blank, ranged, or ranged-placed-- to build in preference to, can be better than mixing and matching modes. (Most sets have at least some ranged effects, note.)
There's a fourth "positional" issue as well, sometimes referred to as "chaos," generally involving mitigation via knockdown, knockback, confusions, and terrifies, and withOUT immobilizations, sleeps, and holds-- meaning, mobs will be everywhere-- a situation a single-target blaster will love.
Earth: Quicksand, Earthquake, and Volcanic Gasses are all placed AoE powers-- meaning you can use them around corners. This can be very interesting and safe in combination with secondaries that use placed effects. The Earth pet himself actually prefers melee-range fighting, but is extremely durable-- and it's worth noting, is also technically a placed power.
Fire: Fire's Hotfeet and Cinders are both PBAoE, and provide good cause to get in close. Plus, Fire Imps are melee-only. Fire also has a placed power, Bonfire, which is useful to control choke-points and is meaningful chaos, but generally speaking, Fire is an up-close set.
Mind and Gravity: Everything in these sets is ranged-- even Gravity's pet prefers range. (Mind's Terrify is a cone, and so requires fairly close-up positioning.)
Ice: Ice Control provides two good excuses for getting up close-- the superb Arctic Air, and its AoE Hold, Glacier. Moreover, Ice's pet, Jack Frost, is strongest in Melee range. But also, Ice Slick, a great power, is placed. There's also some chaos potential in Ice Control.
Illusion: Illusion is a mixed bag. Its AoE Hold, Flash, is PBAoE. Phantom army, a mobile pseudopet, preferrs ranged, as does its regular pet, Phantasm. Spectral Terror is however a placed effect, as are the mobile pets, technically. Also, Illusion is the quintessential "Chaos Controller" thanks to Phantom Army, Phantasm, Spectral Terror, and Deceive.
Plant Control: I'm still not sure whether I think Giant Fly Trap is better melee or ranged. The rest of the set is predominantly ranged, though Seeds of Confusion, a critical power, is a Cone (and so requires fairly close positioning).
Kinetics: Many self/ally buffs that are AoEs centered on Foes mean this set is effectively a PBAoE set.
Storm Summoning: A mix, Placed and PBAoE. Also, thanks to its knockback potential, a classic "Chaos Controller"
Trick Arrow: Placed and Ranged.
Radiation Emission: Mostly Ranged, though Choking Cloud and EMP are PBAoE. So is the ally buff.
Empathy & Thermal Radiation: Some ally buffs PBAoE, but mostly ranged.
Sonic Resonance & Forcefield: Effectively mostly ranged. Liquefy is Placed. But PBAoE "bubbles" will make being closer to center of combat worthwhile.
Placed builds:
Earth/Trick Arrow
Earth/Storm
Ice/Trick Arrow
Ice/Storm
PBAoE Builds:
Fire/Kin
Fire/Rad
Fire/Sonic
Fire/FF
Fire/Storm
Ice/Kin
Ice/Rad
Ice/Sonic
Ranged Builds:
Mind/TA
Mind/Emp
Mind/Thermal
Grav/TA
Grav/Emp
Grav/Thermal
Grav/Storm
Chaos Builds:
Illusion/Storm
Illusion/Trick Arrow
Illusion/Thermal
Illusion/Empathy
Mind/Storm
Positioning Ability
Both primaries and secondaries can exercise control over foes' position. It's easy for some combinations of these to parley into really useful functionality, but often they can also be redundant.
Ice, Earth, and Fire all have placed AoE knock fields. These are great for controlling choke points, as is Trick Arrow's Oil Slick Arrow-- MObs won't be able to go much farther than the outside edge of such patches.
Storm, Forcefield, and Mind have repel tools-- they can be used to shove mobs around. These are not additive, so don't look for Mind/Storm or Mind/FF to do anything special.
Finally, Gravity's most useful, bread-and-butter, power, Wormhole, has a built in foe teleport.
Grav/Storm
Ice/Storm
Earth/Storm
Grav/Forcefield
Ice/Forcefield
Earth/Forcefield
Mind/Trick Arrow
Aggro Extremes
If you plan to play in such a way that being attacked will be more or less of a problem than usual (or that's just how you want to play) there're a few choices to be made:
Personal Defense: Forcefield, Sonic, and Storm contain toggle self defensive powers. Forcefield also has Personal Force Field. Illusion has Superior Invisibility.
Low Aggro: Empathy and Mind draw less aggro than most sets.
Hi Aggro: Plant, Fire, and Kin draw more aggro than usual.
Hi:
Plant/Kin
Fire/Kin
Lo:
Mind/Empathy
Mind/Forcefield
Pet buffability
Some kinds of buffs go best with some kinds of pets.
Mind of course has no pet, so in some sense is not quite on par with other primaries when combined with intensive ally-buffing sets like Kinetics, Empathy, Thermal, Sonic, and Forcefield.
Earth's and Gravity's pets are particularly durable, so combining them with strong defensive buff sets (Forcefield, Empathy, Sonic, Thermal) is not as exciting, unless you really want to have a "pocket tank." (And getting singularity into position for that purpose can be frustrating.)
Gravity's pet also tends to knock meleeing mobs away, and so can be better for secondaries that prefer range and have little self defense, like Trick Arrow and Storm. In theory (especially when turning tight corners to fight) it could also interfere with secondaries that require close-up positioning, like Kinetics.
Illusion has attacking pseudopets (in addition to Phantasm), so secondaries that magnify damage output with +damage buffs, like Kinetics, will be less effective than those that magnify damage with resistance debuffs.
Fire has very aggressive but comparatively fragile pets, and so is especially good with secondaries that buff allies' defenses. But they're also a great damage tool, and so go well with anything that buffs damage or debuffs resistance, too.
Sonic's resistance debuff has to be anchored to an ally-- which means it's best off with a melee pet from Fire, Earth, or Ice control.
Better Pet considerations:
Earth/Kin
Earth/Rad
Gravity/Rad
Gravity/Storm
Gravity/TA
Illusion/Storm
Illusion/TA
Fire/Sonic
Ice/Sonic
(Mind/Rad)
(Mind/TA)
Teammate Savoir-Faire
How smart your teammates are can make a difference for some sets. Sets with confusions and positional demands, like Plant/, Mind/, and Gravity/ are harder to play with inexperienced teams. Secondaries with positional demands, foe-anchored or -centered effects, and ally movement buffs, like /Rad and /kin, can also be a pain. Meanwhile, ally buffing, pets, and single-click controls are pretty easy for anybody to work with, e.g., Fire, Illusion, Empathy, Sonic, Thermal, Forcefield.
Avoid on inexperienced teams:
Plant/Rad
Mind/Rad
Grav/Rad
Plant/Kin
Mind/Kin
Grav/Kin
OK on inexeperienced teams:
Fire/Empathy
Illusion/Empathy
Fire/Sonic
Illusion/Sonic
Fire/Thermal
Illusion/Thermal
Bugs!
Lots of powers in the game individually seem a little under- or over-powered, and raise the question of whether they're bugged. But few and far beteween are powers I think are seriously bugged. Rarer still are powers that specifically in combination make me think they're bugged. Having never witnessed it myself, still there are repeated reports that Trick Arrow's Oil Slick Arrow will make Fire Control's Fire Imps Scatter randomly, presumably because the afraid in them affects imps or something. I don't really know, but I recommend against Fire/TA.
Avoid:
Fire/TA
Knock
Kinetics, Forcefield, and Sonic have small PBAoE knockback fields, that you can turn on and run in amongst the badguys interfering with their activity. This can form a kind of advantage particularly with Illusion (Chaos Control, see Position Synergy), Mind (Levitate) and Gravity (Lift, Propel, Singularity's repel, and the lack of rooting with Gravity's immobilizations).
Illusion/Kin
Illusion/FF
Illusion/Sonic
Mind/Kin
Mind/FF
Mind/Sonic
Grav/Kin
Grav/FF
Grav/Sonic
Note this is not a particularly useful synergy. Maybe I should have termed it a coincidence. - Once foes are well controlled, defensive powers from secondaries are largely useless-- and to a lesser extent, vice-versa.
-
CHOOSING YOUR PRIMARY
The controller primaries control the enemy, changing his behavior and generally keeping him from hurting you and your allies. Plus, they do a modest amount of damage. Additionally, each set has specialties and secondary effects. This section details what control sets do generally, what distinguishes each set, and breifly discusses the unique powers.
WARNING: Jargon Ahead. Please see Appendix A: Terminology.
Common Denominators
All the control sets have three things: A single target hold, a long-recharge AOE Hold, and an AoE Aggro Management tool (usually a sleep).
Nearly every set has a Pet.
Most sets have a Single Target and an AoE Immobilize.
A few sets have AoE Disorients on a fairly fast recharge.
PRIMARY DISTINCTIONS
Gravity Control
Secondary effects include movement slow. Damage type smashing. AoE Stun with foe teleport built in. Has an AoE intang rather than a sleep for aggro management tool. It also has Propel and Lift, a pair of single-target damage + knockback tools.
Earth Control
Secondary effects include defense debuff. Damage is mostly smashing. AoE Hold is actually a cascading pseudopet that throws small area holds. AoE Stun, pulsing knockdown field, Quicksand.
Ice Control
Secondary effects include move slow. Damage type is cold. Pulsing Knockdown Field. Arctic Air. Shiver.
Fire Control
Secondary effects include extra damage. Damage type is Fire. Has an AoE -Per rather than sleep for aggro management tool. Hotfeet. Bonfire.
Plant Control
Secondary effects include extra damage. Damage is smashing and lethal. Seeds of Confusion, Carrion Creepers, Spirit Tree.
Illusion Control
Lacks ST and AoE Immobs. Damage type mostly Psi. Has a PBAoE ally + invis rather than sleep as aggro management tool. Has a ST damage with healback, ST Confuse, Cone Terrify casting pseudopet. Phantom Army. Superior Invisibility.
Mind Control
Lacks ST And AoE Immobs, lacks Pet. Damage type mostly Psi. ST Dmg + Knock, ST Confuse, Terrify Cone. Mass Confusion, Telekinesis, Mesmerize.
Unique Powers
Quicksand is a placed AoE that reduces movement rate, debuffs defense, and has an afraid effect.
Shiver is a cone -move -recharge.
Arctic Air is a complex PBAoE toggle power with -move -recharge, afraid, intermittent confusion and foe -stealth.
Hotfeet is a small PBAoE power with ticks of damage, -move, and afraid.
Bonfire is a placed AoE that does damage and knockback.
Seeds of Confusion is a fast-recharge cone confuse that causes aggro.
Carrion Creepers is a complex placed AoE power that does some entangles, and an invisible pseudopet that follows you and for its duration summons vines-- stationary pets-- to attack your foes.
Spirit Tree is a placed AoE power that is ally +Regen.
Phantom Army summons 3 mobile pseudopets that draw aggro and do damage, but cannot be damaged.
Superior invisibility is a self +invisible.
Mass Confusion is a long recharge AoE confuse.
Telekinesis is a toggle small-AoE hold with repel.
Mesmerize is a high-mag single-target sleep.
IV. CHOOSING YOUR SECONDARY
Compared with primaries, controller secondaries are much more varied, and have a lot more impact on what your character will be capable of.
They're also a lot harder to neatly compare, as they have few real common denominators. There are by my count roughly 18 basic functions/power types that appear twice or more across the eight sets:
Basic Functions- AoE Ally Heal: Empathy, Kinetics, Radiation, Thermal
- Single target ally heal: Empathy (x2), Storm, Thermal
- Ally Mez (all) resist buff: Empathy, Sonic, Kinetics, Thermal
- Resurrect: Empathy, Radiation, Thermal
- Ally resistance or defense buff (bubbles): Thermal, Forcefield (x2), Sonic (x2), Empathy (A-)
- Ally recovery or endurance buff: Kinetics (x2, A+), Empathy (x2,A-S+), Radiation (S-)
- Ally damage buff: Radiation, Kinetics (x2), Empathy (A-), Thermal
- Ally reharge buff: Empathy (A-), Kinetics (A+), Radiation (S-)
- Attacking Pseudopets: Storm
- AoE Foe Resistance Debuff: Radiation, Trick Arrow (S-), Storm, Sonic, Thermal (S-)
- ST foe resistance debuff: Sonic, Thermal
- Foe regeneration debuff: Radiation, Kinetics, Thermal
- AoE Foe Slow: Trick Arrow, Radiation
- PBAoE Knockback: Kinetics, Sonic, Forcefield, Storm
- Kitchen Sink Field: Sonic, Storm.
- Foe ST intangibility: Sonic, Forcefield
- Repel: Kinetics, Storm, Sonic, Forcefield
- AoE Hold or Stun: Radiation (x2, S-, A-), Storm (S-), Trick Arrow (A-), Sonic (S-), Forcefield
(Kitchen sink fields are placed AoE effects with pulsing knockdown, to hit debuff, defense debuff, recharge debuff, and a little damage.)
(A-) = Limited Availability
(A+) = Exceptionally available
(x2) = in more than one power
(S-) = fairly small buff/etc
(S+) = exceptionally large buff/etc
Empathy
In addition to the extensive ally healing/buffing/defensive and other powers listed above, Empathy has Regeneration Aura, a long recharge PBAoE Ally +regen. Also, its Ally +Dmg (Fortitude) is part of the same power as its "bubble", an Ally +Def, and includes a substantial Ally to-hit buff, too. None of these powers draw foe aggro.
Kinetics
In addition to the impressive offensive ally buffing and other powers listed above, Kinetics' +mez resist (Increase Density) also adds energy & smashing resistance. And it has Inertial Reduction, which is a PBAoE ally + Jump, and Siphon Speed, a self recharge and movement buff. Many of these powers require a hit-check against a foe.
Sonic
In addition to the several powers, including its "bubbles," (Sonic Barrier, Sonic Haven, Sonic Dispersion) which are ally resistance buffs, listed above, Sonic's Kitchen Sink Field (Liquefy) has a little bit of hold.
Radation
In addition to the several powers, including foe debuffs and holds listed above, Radiation Emission's AoE -Res (Enervating Field) is a toggle foe-anchored power, and one of its two PBAoE holds (Choking Cloud), is a toggle. Plus it has Radiation Infection, which is a toggle foe-anchored AoE Defense and to-Hit Debuff, Lingering Radiation, an AoE Slow with regeneration debuff, and Fallout, a defeated-ally-anchored AoE damage and foe debuff to foes' resistance, defense, and to-hit.
Thermal
In addition to the powers, including several defensive and healing powers listed above, Thermal's "bubbles" (Thermal Shield, Plasma Shield) add to ally resistance, its Ressurect (Power of the Phoenix) has a knockback field with damage associated with it. Its ally +dmg (Forge) also has a substantial ally +toHit, and its ST Resistance debuff (Melt Armor) has a substantial defense debuff component. It also has Heat Exhaustion, a single-target debuff to damage, regeneration and recovery.
Storm
In addition to the broad variety of aggressive and defensive powers listed above, Storm Summoning's AoE -Res (Freezing Rain) comes in the same power as its Kitchen Sink Field. It's PBAoE knockback (Hurricane) also has repel and substantial to hit debuff. And it has Snowstorm, which is a toggle foe-anchored Slow, Gale, a cone Knockback, Steamy Mist, a toggle PBAoe ally +stealth +def +resist, Tornado, a mobile pseudopet that does PBAoE damge, knockback, and stun, and Lightning Storm, an immobile pseudopet, that does damage and knockback (at range). Used indiscriminately, the Storm set can cause a lot of unwanted repositioning, but its very welcome partcularly among those who would be ranged attacking anyway.
Trick Arrow
Trick Arrow has few "standard" powers listed above aside from its AoE Hold (EMP Arrow) and AoE -Res (Disruption Arrow), but several that in function are unique to the set: it has Entangling Arrow, which is a ST Immob, Flash Arrow, an AoE Foe -Per, Glue Arrow, an AoE Slow, Ice Arrow, a ST Hold, Poison Gas Arrow, an AoE sleep and damage debuff, Acid Arrow, a small AoE -Resist and damage, and Oil Slick arrow, a pulsing knockdown with slow and -def, that can be "lit" for ticks of damage.
Forcefield
In addition to the substantial ally "bubbles," (which are defense), and knockback and repel tools, listed above, Forcefield's Aoe Stun (Repulsion Bomb) has substantial damage and a bit of knockdown. Forcefield also has Personal Force Field which is a self Intang (well, not exactly; anyway, it makes you practically invulnerable while you can't do anything else), Force Bolt a ST knockback, and Force Bubble, an AoE repel with a little knockback. -
Choosing the Controller
That's Right For You, V2!
Code:INTRODUCTIONI. INTRODUCTION II. UNCHOOSING a. Everything is fun! b. Other ATs III. BROAD GENERALIZATIONS IV. CHOOSING YOUR PRIMARY a. Common Denominators b. Primary distinctions i. Gravity ii. Earth iii. Ice iv. Fire v. Plant vi. Illusion vii. Mind c. Unique Powers V. CHOOSING YOUR SECONDARY a. Basic Functions b. Secondary distinctions i. Empathy ii. Kinetics iii. Sonic iv. Radiation v. Thermal vi. Storm vii. Trick Arrow iix. Forcefield VI. COMBINATION SYNERGY a. Mitigation and Aggression b. AoE Damage c. Solo Function d. Small Team Function e. Long Recharge Hard AOE Controls f. AoE Stun g. Holds h. Positional Synergy i. Positioning Ability j. Aggro Extremes k. Pet Buffability l. Teammate Savoir-Faire m. Bugs! n. Knock* Appendix A: Terminology Appendix B: My Experience
So, you've decided to play a controller! Currently there're seven primaries and eight secondaries to choose from. That's a bewildering 56 possible combinations, each with its own synergy.
This guide aims at helping you make that first bewildering choice, based on comparisons of sets and some reasonably accurate generalizations. There're all sorts of other resources to be found in the various guides in the controller section once you narrow your ideas down a bit, and this guide is not intended as a comprehensive review of any set.
But hopefully it will be useful for your initial choice among powersets.
UNCHOOSING
Everything is fun! Just play what you like!
Note that there're folks on the forums who like to sabotage anybody seeking information about differences between controller builds, by giving them advice that amounts to "Anybody can have fun doing anything," even when somebody was askng a pretty specific question. I feel bad for newcomers when this happens. So I wrote this guide.
If you're willing to wade through occasional silliness from people who take it personally when somebody criticizes a power, the Controller forums are still a great source of feedback and advice. Needless to say everything I write here is from my PoV. My experience is finite-- see Appendix B.
Other Archetypes
Maybe you're still undecided about playing a controller. Reasons you may want to play other ATs:
- If you still want to freeze your foes in their tracks, but would rather just attack your foes than weaken them (and aid your allies), consider a Dominator.
- If you like the idea of helping your team and weakening your foes, but would rather just blast away at them than freeze them in their tracks, consider a Defender or a Corruptor.
- If you like the idea of pets, and of helping your team and weakening your foes, but are indifferent to freezing your foes, consider a Mastermind.
- If you love to live on the edge and outgun your opponents, consider a Blaster or Corruptor.
- If you really want to be tough, shrug off your foes' mezzing, and get up in their faces, consider a Scrapper, Tank, or Brute.
- If you think you might like sneaking up on your opponents and stabbing them in the back better, consider a Stalker.
BROAD GENERALIZATIONS
Before I get into lots of detail, I want to throw out, for your consideration, some generalizations about the various sets, what they're best and worst at. Mainly I will treat a common contrast made, "fastest" versus "safest."
Primaries:
Fastest Solo & Best ST damage: Fire, Illusion, possibly Grav (& Mind pre-32)
Fastest Team & Best AoE damage: Plant, then Fire
Safest Solo, Best ST Control: Mind
Safest Team, Best AoE Control: Ice & Earth
Secondaries:
Fastest: Kinetics, then Radiation & Storm (then Empathy & Thermal on 2-4 man teams)
Safest Solo: Forcefield, Thermal (then Empathy & Thermal on 2-4 man teams)
Safest Team: Forcefield, Sonic, Trick Arrow, Empathy, Thermal
Vs AVs:
Best: Illusion, Radiation.
Most common: Fire, Illusion, maybe Plant
Least common: Gravity maybe Mind.
Animation Visbility:
Most: Earth, Ice, Plant, Storm, Thermal
Least: Mind, Gravity, Kinetics, Sonic
Most Position-dependent: Fire, Ice, Kinetics, maybe Forcefield and Sonic.
Most knockback-oriented: Storm, Forcefield, maybe Illusion and Grav. -
Quote:Yet I said nothing of the sort. Acutally I lamented the fact that controlling is a relatively weak contribution, though it's something I, too, would like to focus on.Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
The thing that's ticking me off here is your notion that it's silly for me to want to play a controller to CONTROL, which is what I want to do.
Personally, I want to make a toon that does nothing but really awesome ragdoll knockup and knockback. Because I still think it's the best visual improvement to the game ever. But I also know concentrating on that would be a feeble contribution to any team, and that the game's oriented to teaming.
It comes down to the fact that you made it (or tried to) impossible to respond to your post in entirely good faith, much like "I'd really like to know what 2+2 is, but please don't say 4!"
Truth is, I don't think that's an accurate way to look at primary versus secondary. But that aside: it's not me that's acting like that. It's the game. You'd *should* be more annoyed with me if I didn't point that out.Quote:You're acting like the controller's secondary should really be the primary when it isn't.
Except, I didn't say that. I said it was silly. I'm free to describe playing builds certain ways. For example: Pure Healers, also silly.Quote:In short, I'll play for the reasons I want to play, and you're quite arrogant to pretty much say "gtfo of the controller archetype if you don't want to buff".
That doesn't mean the Enantiodromos Police are going to bust down your door and make you stop playing controllers in a way that you're going to find unsatisfying (except insofar as you keep on to prove me wrong).
You're welcome to play any of the buffing secondaries and not buff, nor can I nor want I to stop you. That doesn't mean it's not silly and something I feel obliged, based on the nature of your question, to recommend against.
Look. Better understanding powers may change your decisions. Insisting on information isolated from all context doesn't make sense.Quote:Yes but I only wanted advice on the one power, not on my decisions and personal preferences.
If you don't like to buff at all, I guess this is largely a misunderstanding. Among the things I found least comprehensible about your stance was saying you were happy with buffing on a defender.Quote:Meh, I think one way or the other I was going to get criticized for not liking to buff. Either I come out with it up front or people keep asking me "why" until I confess. -
Quote:70% of the XP in 50% of the time, indeed.Originally Posted by Jorlain
If the mobs deal damage to each other equal to 50% of each other's HP and you deal the rest, you still get 70% of the xp for the kill. So it does reduce xp per kill, but more than offsets this by increasing your xp per hour. If used well with damage powers Seeds of confusion can substantially increase your xp per hour. Mass confusion less so, but still noticeably.
-
Quote:I'm not sure the game's evolved a WHOLE lot in the last two years. (Wait. Two years ago+ was when we got containment and lost AoEs, right?) I mean, Mind and Kin haven't changed that much.Originally Posted by Tissuepaper
I hope that the game has evolved in those 2 years and was hoping for a more current build and any help/comments on the ins and outs of the Mind/Kin choice. (is it just a bad choice on my part - and not played often?)
An /kin build is extremely powerful IMO, whether team or solo. Teams even moreso. Unless you're just not willing to steadily boost teammates between fights. Kinetics is only rivaled by the bubblers for the tedium of its buffing-- but it's SO good, and not THAT tedious. Kin is awesome.
Mind is a fun small-teaming set-- surgical control, ST damage, low-aggro. It can be fun. It's not the strongest set out there. It's cool looking though, that's for sure.
Mind/Kin is an OK combo-- there's nothing that really makes the synergy especially strong or weak. The fact that Mind's an almost entirely ranged set, and that you'll often want to be near foes using Kinetics, doesn't help particularly, but it's not like this is a big bummer. Also, if you like slinging lots of AoE hard control, a Mind/Kin with siphon speed and hasten will be abel to throw out a lot of Total Dom and Mass Confusion.
Mind/Kin can be very strong and very fun.
>>Will the lack of a pet for Mind be crippling at higher levels and possibly PvP?<<
I don't PvP, but I suspect Mind's ST damage, and other features of Lift, Mes, Dom, probably stand it in good stead in PvP. Lack of a pet will mean you do *relatively* less damage single-target than many sets. I don't think that's the end of the world.
Hover + siphon speed should be fine. You could always take inertial reduction, too. I mean, I wouldn't hover when you're just trying to make ground time, but a pair of siphons up, and you'll be trucking right along, and hovering for vertical should be fine too.
>>How does a newb level
My only advice here is: 1) do your first eight levels on a "Sewer Team" in Atlas Park, if you don't have a regular group. (Ask for it by name in broadcast), 2) hit King's row, do the first police scanner sequence to a safeguard, if you want the flight pack. 3) try and get on mid-sized teams when possible. They should LOVE you after 20. And 4) don't forget that you can always pseudo-stealth solo missions with dom, mes, and mass hypnosis.
Also, I can set you up on Justice, Freedom, or Virtue if you're cash strapped. I'm @enantiodromos. As far as that goes, watch your common and rare salvage and any recipes that drop for IOs that say "chance to" etc. Learn a bit about how to sell on the market and do so regularly, and cash shouldn't be a big problem.
I wouldn't grind mobs until X level for any reason, except to prove to myself I can do it (q.v., Plant/Kin Boomtown Nazis!) You can contribute PLENTY on any team before speedboost, especially since you'll get it before most controllers would get their pet.
I don't think any server has HUGE stability issues, but Freedom and even Virtue can be a teeny bit cranky on like, new-issue double-XP weekend scenarios. Which I think we have one of those coming up.