Electric-Knight
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Wow, that's rather obnoxious. I was going to add some more replies to this in order to continue an actual discussion, but I'm not going to waste my time with responses like that. You have no idea who I am to assume I'm some *** that wouldn't admit being wrong.Originally Posted by BellaStrega
Well of course not, that'd be tantamount to saying you're wrong.
You and I disagree about this, mainly because we're looking at it differently. It was basically a miniscule point of difference that I thought could easily be acknowledged by both parties, but... anyway. I come here for feedback and interesting conversation.
Comments and attitudes like that won't bring anything worthwhile.
EDIT: This has been cleared up and all is good!
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Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Did The Blues Brothers 2000 teach us nothing?
I... missed that class...
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Quote:The point is that I was saying (and believe) that the Incarnate Rewards are specifically very different than any other previous reward that was gated strictly behind teaming.Originally Posted by BellaStrega
It's all about the cognitive dissonance.
See my reply above. I didn't make the claim they were exactly the same thing. I said they were in the same category of thing. What you're describing isn't that incarnate rewards are anything new. They're simply much improved rewards over what's been available in the past, and some (not all) of those rewards are relevant only because certain past rewards (or powersets) were nerfed.
Does your forum join date reflect the time you started playing as well? I may be talking about a period of time you simply didn't experience, which means you don't know what it was like and what characters with full Hamidon slotting under the pre-enhancement diversification, pre-Hamidon enhnancement nerf, and pre-global defense reduction were capable of.
Hamidon enhancements were nerfed so IOs would be meaningful, or at least that's the explanation that was given at the time, despite IOs not being around for some time after (I forget the exact interval). A lot of people did find them appealing and went to great lengths to fill out some of their characters with these enhancements because the comparison to not having them was rather immense. You are right that incarnate slots are more appealing but this doesn't refute my argument at all.
I'm fairly certain it's documented fact that Hamidon enhancements represented character advancement beyond the limits of the game outside attending Hamidon trials, and such advancement actually made it fairly trivial to fight +4 mobs. The game's changed a lot since that time and the dev team is much better at designing rewards, or at least has more freedom to design better rewards, than they did then. It's not a matter of opinion that CoH had options to make your character significantly more powerful from launch.
I do not agree that the previous Hami-O scenario qualifies your previous statement that the Incarnate Trial progression was an established design philosophy for this game.
The only pre-existing rewards that I think compare to Incarnate Powers are leveling from 1-50 and the Epic and Patron Powers.
This is why I felt all along that various paths there would be best for the broad playerbase.
For the record, I am aware of the history of the game and I was around before IOs and when the Hami-Os were the pinnacle of loot. That does not compare to the appeal, nor the nature of, the Incarnate Rewards.
Citing the Hamidon Raid and Hami-Os as being evidence of any such established design philosophy could lead one to say that the Mother Ship Raids are also such an example. After all, they reward costume parts (just like the Astral and Empyrean Venders) and some rather hefty powers.
You seem to be exceptionally focused on the game mechanic/numbers aspect of these rewards. There's nothing wrong if that is your personal appeal, but there are far more aspects to these rewards than simply the numbers. -
Quote:Agreed!Originally Posted by Elianta
I'm sorry but I don't agree with this. For one thing, The argument isn't that they should change it now(though they should IMO), but that they should have made it non-exclusive to packs in the first place. The fact that it'll make people angry is the same as saying someone shouldn't be angry that they weren't made exclusive at the opening.
I also don't agree with the second. The Super Packs draw is that potentially you could spend far less and get far more. For 80pp you get a bunch of useful things and maybe a costume part. This sin't a bad idea. And I also don't think people would just not buy SuperPacks if they hadn't added in an exclusive costume set. I know I would have. I might even have bought a 24-pack in the chance that I'd get the whole costume set with other things, if I knew that even if I didn't get them all i could just go and buy the costume pieces I wanted separately. I won't buy them now because of this decision.
And to all the posters simply saying 'suck it up, the Devs did it'. Uh...This is the discussion thread! you're allowed to voice your displeasure!
But I think it's pretty telling that this argument has been going on since Tuesday without really slowing down much. There's clearly a large portion of the player base that finds this idea horribly bothersome to their idea of CoH and Paragon Studios in general.
I'm frankly rather bothered by the decision(enough that I'm posting here on the forums, which I almost never do[mostly I check out announcements then go and play]) because I want to give Paragon Studios Money for things and they're not letting me except through a roundabout, uncertain method I have no desire to use.
I think we need to bring the discussion back to the fact that the majority of the people in this thread against the packs are not against the Super Packs. They're against the thought of not being able to purchase the things found in said pack separately with a 100% guarantee of getting them.
I personally think it's stupid of NCSoft to not want to take my money for the costume set/vanity pet. And I think it's even sillier that they have no plan to introduce the EO set at a later date/are considering doing this for further sets.
So again
Super Packs aren't evil/horrible hellspawns that make Cole look like small time in comparison
BUT
Super Packs should not have exclusive items that you can only get without any guarantee by spending far more than you would otherwise. The draw of Super Packs should be that you can potentially get far more for your points than you did buying individually.
Honestly, this same discussion has been going on for months now - since it was revealed that the packs had exclusive rewards.
They changed it up for the ATOs, but not for the pet and the costume parts, much to my (and many others) disappointment.
The reason it has caused a stir - back then, since and continuing now - is because lot of people take issue with there being exclusive rewards within the pack. You are correct. That is what most people have stated. It's undeniable. Whether they want to change anything about it, is another story, but it was far from just a few of us voicing our negative feedback (for whatever any of that is worth). -
How did they collect all those ponytails?
Quote:Nyuck, nyuck nyuck!Originally Posted by Tenzhi
And sometimes they're curly, too. -
Quote:Sorry for the confusion, Elvnsword! I can't make it at all, unfortunately!Originally Posted by elvnsword09
Ok, So it's looking like we have at or around 17 people, not enough to prebook and get our discount, but I have been assured they will have room for us to walk in.
Electric-knight, what time would you like to have a meet up? I know I can get myself and Obsidian Light there, possibly Archangel Michael a bit early if you need early. I am in this to meet all the folks I can that play our game cause I honestly believe we have THE BEST community in the gaming industry, so if that means coming a bit early, I will do that if you want to meet early.
Just post a proposed time, and we can all meet up and have some hang out time prior to the main meet and greet at 6PM.
I look forward to next week, and I can't wait to meet you all.
~~Elvnsword/Liberties~~
I was just trying to provide some positive push to get people to show up early if they wanted to.
I live in New York and would love to swing down for this, but -as it so happened- I have to attend a surprise party for an old friend instead.
As much as I'm looking forward to the surprise party, I keep hoping I'll get a call that it's been canceled or rescheduled... hehe... -
I don't cherry pick or drop any of them... I sometimes think about avoiding the Carnival Of Shadows ones, because I'm usually soloing as a Blaster... But I just can't let them win like that!! Those Master Illusionists can really mess me up sometimes, but... I get them eventually!!
I do love "One Good Spider". I mean, at least the first time and whenever I haven't run it in a while. I can understand those trying to somewhat rush through, skipping it.
My favorite aspect of that mission is the crowd cheering my name and rooting me on!! Fabulous!
I'd love to see more of that somehow!
*puts one hand to his ear while he beckons the crowd to cheer louder with his other hand*
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I'm not sure if I have mentioned this here before, but here's a thought...
The Retro-SciFi Pack's bubble helmet makes this a little more relevant now.
What about a bubble around the head aura?
I could see taking that and going with a full array of aura options, but a head bubble could be a great way to allow a character with full detail 1 and 2 head options to still have some sort of transparent helmet/bubble thingy on their head.
It could also be used as some sort of energy field thing or an air bubble (or maybe a water bubble for aquatic characters on land).
Just a thought! -
Quote:Unfortunately the old two choices/sides has become all people of society can handle any more.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm pretty certain I said the exact opposite. Apparently its confusing when I support something, but oppose certain arguments in favor of it. You'd think people would be used to that by now.
Although, to be a bit more fair, I can see someone losing track on your stance of this based on some of your stated rules of design philosophy within this thread.
Not that you have said anything that contradicted your stance on allowing a reasonable solo Incarnate path... Just that some of what you said could be mistakenly read as someone who would prefer it remain team-only.
*shrugs*
They're still mistaken, of course... but I had a few words to type before reaching my quota, so there we are. -
Quote:I understand the correlation you are making and I absolutely never believed that team-required content did not exist (just to make that clear).Originally Posted by BellaStrega
You're mistaken. Hamidon enhancements were raid content. They could be traded to characters who never stepped foot in the Hive, unlike Incarnate shards, threads, or components, but in order for them to exist in the first place, someone had to raid for them. Later on, you could get them through Statesman's and Lord Recluse's TFs, but initially you pretty much had to be there or someone who was willing to give them to you had to be there. And when HOs were stronger and there was no ED, there were characters that were entirely slotted out with HOs, who were significantly stronger than characters who weren't. What is the difference, exactly? Even after ED, HOs were still fairly strong. Even after HOs were nerfed to make room for IOs, they were still more potent than anything else you could slot.
However, I personally do not find Hami-Os to fit the bill as being similar as the entire scope of the Incarnate Tree (as well as the rewards from the Astral and Empyrean Venders).
Enhancements are just bonuses (possibly huge benefits, but just bonuses for game mechanics). This game is completely functional without any additional bonuses and do not appeal to as many people, nor as greatly to most, as new abilities and powers.
Additional percentage increments are no match for shooting flames or lightning or throwing up heals or defensive barriers or calling NPCs or Pets... Not to the masses that play this game. Absolutely some players may love bonuses more than new flashy powers... But there are certainly as many that prefer the flash, the visual options and/or the game mechanical options more than bonus percentage points.
I am not trying to nitpick or force any arguments with you for the sake of arguing.
I just honestly don't share your opinion on that and figured I'd share mine.
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Heehee... Awwwww...
Quote:I'm guessing it is Layla (here's a thread with links and pics of her work) you are referring to? She makes some great stuff!Originally Posted by Turgenev
(Felt like sharing. MiniTurg turned 2 months old this week. Cape gifted by @ObsidianLight and crafted by one of ours (whose name frightfully escapes me, but she's hugely talented and makes dolls too!). -
Quote:Interesting! I figured there must be some who feel that way and nearly included something about it when I was typing that... I remember the cartoon, and I know I did watch it somewhat regularly, but I'll be honest... I can't remember much about it!Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I like the movies, but ultimately, my Ghostbusters are The Real Ghostbusters. I prefer the animated versions of the characters and many of the adventures they had.
I wondered what fans of that cartoon thought about this whole thing.
If they couldn't get the right script and/or the right cast, I wonder if they'd be better off just starting up a new crew in any which way they can (if they want to try and make Ghostbusters an ongoing successful franchise). -
Regarding the abbreviation correction...
Why do people think it is so outrageous to correct someone sometimes?
Someone made a small mistake and someone else let them know about it.
Feel free to do what you will with the knowledge. Big flippin' deal!
If they already knew and prefer to use their version... go ahead... if they didn't know... Yay! Someone politely pointed it out.
That's a good thing.
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Quote:I honestly do not see what previous design philosophies resemble whole branches of new power choices being gated behind team-only content.Originally Posted by BellaStrega
...What I was saying is that on this particular issue, the incarnate trials were not a departure from past design philosophy, but rather an expansion of it.
...
That is the major difference.
It's not like anything else in the game.
I'm not saying that this makes it wrong... I am just saying that I do not agree that any previous design philosophies of this game match the Incarnate System as you and others have indicated. -
Yeah, this always sounds scary/sad every time I hear about it.
On the other hand... I can see the desire and potential in making it an ongoing franchise for new generations today and the future...
It just wouldn't be our Ghostbusters.
Maybe that's not so bad... It irks my general sensibility towards people creating their own new content, as opposed to living off of others... But I suppose I could see the desire to push it forward and beyond, as I mentioned above.
Veckman as a ghost could be hilarious.
Without Murray... a bridge/handover movie just won't work well.
I love Moranis... but - no matter how much I love him and his Ghostbusters character - he does not and cannot replace Murray's place within the film.
As much as I get the idea... I can't say that I see myself enjoying an old Ghostbusters handing the reigns over to the new Ghostbusters type of movie... Not unless it has some new and really funny (really funny... not typical Hollywood American "comedy") style of its own.
I do like that they're always saying that script needs to be right. If Ramis is heavily involved in that, I have some faith in it...
Also... I'd much rather see a McKenzie Brothers reunion!!
Breaks his own unwritten rule and proceeds to talk about Star Wars...
I love how Star Wars bashers can work their way into any movie topic...
I also feel sorry for those who disliked the Prequels. Being someone that loves them, it is utterly fantastic to have 6 amazing Star Wars movies that I love!
Phantom Menace had many elements I was not expecting and didn't hit the mark in entirety, in my opinion, as well as the others did... but Attack Of The Clones was everything and more I'd want and Revenge Of The Sith too. And don't get me wrong... I still enjoy Phantom Menace very much and there are numerous things that are superb about it. My only problems were 1) general shock as a life-long Star Wars kid vs. expectations (which I got over within the first few minutes of the film on first viewing) 2) a few design and voice decisions 3) a couple of editing decisions that could have helped cut down on the general Jar Jar annoyance.
Whether a person likes the prequels or not... to ever talk about them as though they're dredge is hilarious. No other films come close to achieving what those films have. Actually, perhaps The Two Towers and Return Of The King may have come close... Much kudos to Jackson and Weta for that...
P.S. None of those issues I listed about The Phantom Menace bother me when I watch it now (except one editing decision that I always feel like The scene should have cut right before he says that... but hey... big deal!!). -
My personal design philosophy is that the Incarnate Rewards are broad and desirable enough types of rewards/content that I feel it should be open to being obtained and enjoyed via large-scale teaming, small-scale teaming and solo playing with earning-rates relative to previously existing level progression (based on size of team, difficulty settings and such).
That is just the way I see such a set of rewards being handled best... at least, within this game based on the existing product, its history and the existing customer-base.
If we're talking about something that I am building from scratch, my answers could certainly be different, based on anything from the game, the fictional basis of the game, the particular stories... and so on.
However, new bonuses, powers and abilities on top of a several-year-old game that's never had a level extension and has a healthy amount of teaming and solo (and everything between) enthusiasts... That gets a be open to all sorts design, in my book.
That being said... I can understand if the balancing aspect of their new content and rewards were better done first by getting the large scale correct and working downwards towards solo content.
I may not enjoy it, as a player, but I can understand how it could be a wise manner to go about it. -
Quote:How dare you use the ability to see things objectively while being capable of having personal preference!!Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I am a little amazed by the snark in this thread. You guys can argue all you want, people are going to call it what they want to call it.
I think it is gambling lite, some of you do not see it as such. I also think opening them is fun and addicting. I do get a rush as I turn each card over, I am really glad I have a budget and self control.
I agree that the snark/attacks are ridiculous and the arguing is pointless...
I also see them the same as you, except that I do not like these packs nor do I find enjoyment from clicking things to find out what content I bought!
Honestly, I find this to be a really lame thing to have spent development time on... when we have great graphics, 3D worlds, several different forms of missions and activities that can offer wonderful ways to earn rewards... buying virtual cards and "flipping" them just seems like a lousy sell out to me.
That's just my personal opinion on them. And people can throw whatever snark they like at me for it, but it won't make me cry!
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Excitement over exclusivity is a bad road.
I like the costume set (and the black wolf). If they were up for sale outright, I'd buy them.
Super Packs = no sale + a hefty amount of disappointment in Paragon Studios -
Thank you for the GREAT communication!!
That is really terrific and I'm glad to hear that some ways to incorporate more options have been figured out.
Great work, all around!
Also, I am in favor of "Dink The Magnificent"!
Also also... Where'd that illustration of Freddie come from, Tech? -
Fantastic and thank you very much, Dink!!
Prepare for many requests/suggestions for future downtime!
That's really great news though!
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So, yeah, if that is all there is about this mission, then it is nicely left to the person's imagination.
I find it interesting that, when given something that leaves room for personal imagination, people who would get offended about certain things tend to imagine those very things.
And I do not mean that as a dig against being offended over sex-trading. I find that to be perfectly understandable.
However, if a piece of art calls something a dance hall with entertainers and anyone wants to take that to mean anything beyond what those words mean, it is on the individual.
As far as I am concerned, it is always on the individual anyway. If the artists wish to make something reprehensible, they are free to and we are free to take a hike and/or voice our opinions.
Regardless, this doesn't seem to be one of those cases, to me.
Quote:Originally Posted by Vyver
and as my grandmother would say "It takes all kinds to make a world"
If it wasn't for ax crazy villains like Crosscut, we might as well rename City of Villains, "City of Morally Ambiguous Mercenaries Who Fight Other Villains (who are also morally ambiguous business men) For Profit." ++
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I haven't done these missions...
Is there content/text that hasn't been posted here that makes it out to be sex trading victims?
I see a vague presentation of a "dance hall" and "entertainers" and an OP taking the leap on what that means.
Regardless, I don't have any issues with harsh and repugnant issues being used for content, if done well enough (including a good deal of respectfulness in the writing and the approach). -
I'm just replying quickly to say that this is a most excellent point, Captain!
I could see certain types of mission maps possibly taking enough time and resources that the "both" camp could have merit, but - either way- the outward desire for cool places to go should really be aimed at mission maps more than world zones.
I'd be extremely interested to hear a developer's perspective on the amount of work required for a set of mission maps compared to a world zone.
Anyway... I may chime in with more another time!
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I'm still bummed that I'm not going to be able to make it...
But would it be much of a problem to just meet up earlier, even if the official space isn't booked for then?
I've never been there, so I don't have much of a clue as to what I'm talking about, but a mall is a mall, right?
You could all go shoe shopping...
Oh... that's just IF the time can't be officially moved forward, of course (which, I suppose it likely could be!). -
Forced Teaming...
It can happen to you!
