Dwimble

Well, the version that they pushed to live today is certainly more usable than the previous version, but I'm hoping they will still tweak it some more to at least allow Taunt and taunt effects to work with it.

In the mean time, I'm going to have to devote even MORE slots to Taunt (which I was hoping to avoid) and I'm going to create a bind to hit whenever Rage goes down that blows the whistle and says, "WARNING!!! Rage has ended, I am unable to Taunt for the next 10 seconds... watch out for possible agro!"

At least then if some blaster dies because he shoots some boss during that period and it decides I'm no longer an interesting target and turns on him, he can't say I didn't warn him. It's still a tad annoying though.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
Now just sit back and wait for the flames from all the other AT's telling us we Tankers whine to much, and that version of Rage would make us Uber

[/ QUOTE ]
What's funny about that sort of thing is that Rage provides a bonus on the base not the total, and tankers have a 400% damage cap anyway (unlike the 500% cap for scrappers + criticals). So, even in the best of circumstances Rage isn't making Super Strength uber.

Because Rage's bonus is on the base rather than the total, it will increase the total damage on a 6-slotted attack by 27% (ignoring the no-attack crash, which really brings it down farther). That's the best it can do without getting into the weird Rage-stacking schemes, which opens up a whole new set of convoluted and complicated slotting scenarios that in the end only provide a marginal benefit (if any) over "normal" perma-Rage..

Hasten, which hardly anyone ever complains about, is arguably the most "uber" power in the game because it effectively increases your damage by 70% on the TOTAL not the base. Because you are attacking 70% faster, a power than normally does say 100 damage over time will now do 170 damage in that same period. Rage would make that 100 damage power do 127 (assuming 6-slotted and ignoring the crash).

When the cost/benefit is considered, I think Hasten is the most overpowered thing in the game, especially considering that it is a tier 1 Power Pool power. When weighing its benefits and penalties against Rage, a 7th tier Secondary Power...well, I don't think there is a comparison.

This isn't an argument for nerfing Hasten or buffing Rage, but merely to point out that as long as other powers exist in the game (especially common power pool powers) which provide that sort of benefit with a negligible penalty, people worrying about something like Rage making a set like Super Strength "uber" is just plain silly. I think that even if Rage had no penalties whatsoever it still wouldn't be a problem except perhaps when compared to Mace, which desperately needs some love and is in worse shape than SS anyway.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
...However, when they finally roll back the boss changes they've been saying they're going to roll back for a the last month or so, that might change some of the numbers.

-Garrik

[/ QUOTE ]
The boss changes were rolled back almost a week ago (February 1st). Check out the Recent Updates link on the home page.

[ QUOTE ]
If you're 50 and participate in this, what level reward do you get?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I meant the OTHER people still get mission rewards. I don't think the 50s get any rewards. I'm not positive on that though because I wasn't following the chat too closely after we finished.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
If 41 is the max...then how can you do this with higher level heroes? We had 2 level 50s in the trial in with a level 38 controller and had some issues. Mainly that we couldn't do damage to the hydra with the particle cannon (despite blowing up the force fields). Is there some kind of safety in effect for this trial? Do all the higher levels need to exemplat down for the duration?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know all the ins and outs of it because I've just done it twice. Both times, however we had a team ranging from 36-50. Sometimes during the trial the 50s were exemplared and sometimes they weren't. I think they were exemplared when we started it, but I'm not sure.

One thing though, although you can DO the mission at higher and lower levels (as long as you can get into the sewers, which means level 36 minimum) you can't GET the mission before 38 and after 40 (maybe 41). So, there's a narrow window for getting the mission but a wide window for participating in it.

One note: when the 50s unexemplared, the usual XP rules seemed to apply. Most of the team, if not all, won't get any XPs for kills but still get mission rewards. Further, the 50s don't get booted from the team like in TFs, and if they reexemplar then the XPs will return to normal. Both times when we did it the 50s exemplared for the Kraken fights (so that we didn't lose the XPs) but unexemplared for the Hydra's head.

Dwimble

Excellent guide. Another small correction regarding the special enhancements. You said, "all the Hydra enhanemcents are level 40." That's not accurate. I've done it twice now at level 36, SK'd to a 40 during most of it but not SK'd at the end. The first time, the special enhancement I got was level 40. The second time, I got a 42. I just dinged 37 tonight and can now use the 40 but the 42 is still sitting there in my tray waiting on my long haul to 39.

Dwimble

I can deal with all of it--reduced defense, 25% end drop, and 10 second no attack--as long as I can still Taunt. Even with Taunt, however, it still seems a bit much for a 7th tier above-average damage and accuracy boost.

Dwimble

I think the penalties in the current test version of Rage would be okay if they made one simple change...allow Taunt powers and effects during the ten second Rage crash. If Taunt, Provoke, Invincibility's taunt effect, and so on are still usable then you can continue to hold agro for the brief period you can't attack. If you can't Taunt then quite simply people will die, and once again Rage will be relegated to the junk pile or become highly situational at best. The current state is still a bit too severe for a power that could essentially be replaced by popping a couple of inspirations.

The End drop could be a bit lower, but I can live with it. The only truly IMPORTANT change needed is to allow Taunt, which lets you continue to do your primary job of holding agro.

Dwimble

I posted this in a reply to a question about pulling in the Player Questions section, but seeing that is had the makings of a small guide to pulling I am posting it here.

Here are some tips on pulling that may help to solve the mystery for some of you who want to pull successfully but just can't seem to master it:

Pull from the edge
As much as possible try to pull villains that are separated from the group to which they are "attached". Frequently there are some that walk around and you can catch them when they are at a good distance from the others. If none are walking around then try to pull someone from the edge of the crowd.

Pull mobs the others aren't facing
If a group of mobs is standing around, try to pull one that the others aren't looking at. Mobs are much less likely to notice when you shoot someone whom they AREN'T facing. For example, if two guys are fighting, don't try to pull one of the ones fighting, pull someone watching the fight. If one mob is speaking, don't pull the speaker, pull someone listening to him, and so on.

Don't pull bosses
Don't pull bosses! Many people just don't get this or won't believe it. Occasionally it will work, but not very often. Typically if you try to pull a boss he will bring everyone with him. You can frequently pull Lts successfully with practice, but try to stick with minions as much as possible until you have no choice but to try a Lt.

Get as much range as possible
Get as far away as possible from the group you are trying to pull. While it is possible to pull with shorter range attacks, it is much more difficult. Use a snipe if you have it, and at long range. If you must use a shorter range attack then try to use something with at least an 80' to 100' range. Get out of range, target the enemy, hit the attack, and then slowly move forward until it goes off. That will ensure maximum range on the attack. You can't do this with snipes because moving will interrupt them. Snipes will, however, still give you the "out of range" message, so you can just keep inching forward and pausing to hit the attack until it finally starts.

Get your team out of sight or at least back
This is typically one of the most difficult parts (especially on pickup teams) because oftentimes people don't listen, are too impatient, don't care, or simple don't know what they are doing. But, I've seen more pulls gone bad than you can imagine for this simple reason. People are too close, so when you shoot and the mobs look your way, they see everyone and all come.

Hide after your shot
As much as possible you should pull to a corner or an obstacle like a crate or column. Take your shot and then QUICKLY step behind the crate or around the corner. This will force the mob to come all the way to the corner or crate before he can attack you (very important when trying to pull mobs who use ranged attacks).

Move quick after your shot
As mentioned in the previous point, move QUICK after you take your shot. Get out of sight or Super Speed way out of the mob's range immediately. Frequently if a mobs has time to shoot at you while he is still near his buddies then that will alert all of them to your presence. If he has to run to a corner or get himself within range of you before he attacks then they won't see.

Move/Hide even if you one shot the mob
If you one shot the mob then you should still hide for a few seconds. If you don't hide then the others will notice that their buddy just hit the dirt and look around to find out who did it. If they see your group standing there then they'll all come running.

Your team must WAIT to attack
This is the other common thing that wrecks pulls. You hit a mob, he starts moving toward you (hopefully to the corner you just stepped behind if you are smart) and Capt. Impatient on your team just can't restrain himself and shoots when the mob is only halfway to you. So what happens? The mob stops and shoots at Capt. Impatient, alerts his buddies to your group's presence, and then they all come running. If your team will restrain themselves enough to get around the corner with you and then let loose on the evil guy when he rounds the corner, then things will go nicely. Further, they should have him pre-targeted or be assisting you so that they can attack him before he gets the chance to attack you. Why? Because the mob hates you of course. He wants to kill you and will frequently run past everyone else trying to get to you. Since it's likely you are one of the weakest guys on the team, that could spell death for you if your team isn't ready to pounce on him as he rounds the corner.

Dealing with "packed" groups
Occasionally you will find large groups who are very tightly packed together with no "edge" to pull from. Don't be surprised in those situations if the whole group comes. They can be very hard to pull, if not impossible. In those situations if pulling is very important due to group size, weak defenses, and so on... use some "hit and run". Hit one mob and everyone run until agro is lost. Wait a little while to make sure they've "forgotten" about you, and then go back. Sometimes that will have loosened up the group a bit so that you can now find an edge to pull from.

Summery
Get way back, near a corner or obstacle, with only you visible. Pull a minion from the edge who doesn't have the group's attention. The instant your attack goes off step behind the obstacle or super speed well out of the mob's range.

If you follow that procedure you will frequently succeed. Sometimes two or three or several may come, but rarely the whole group, and even more rarely the boss with them (assuming there is a boss). However, some types of bosses come more often than others. Vahz bosses, for example, almost always come, as do the Lts. But of course Vahz are different in many ways...many rules just don't apply to them. For pulling or otherwise.

Dwimble

The problem with this proposed change is that it is out of balance with the rest of the game. I just glanced over a list of every power in the game and found that there are only a handful that drain 100% end. In every case, powers with this sort of penalty were either a 9th tier uber nuke power or a 9th tier uber defense power. No other powers in the game drain end like that, and unless I missed one, no other power has a disorient penalty like Rage in its current state either. Adrenaline Boost (also a 9th tier power) used to have a disorient but it was removed completely, and that wasn't the sort of power that you used in the middle of combat anyway.

"Perma" Rage provides an 80% damage boost and I believe a 25% Acc boost 100% of the time with a stun or chance of stun every two minutes. That won't even get a fully slotted power to the damage cap, and is roughly equivalent to hitting three store-bought damage inspirations and one accuracy. Build Up fully slotted with recharge provides +100% damage and +50% accuracy roughly 50% of the time, with no penalties at all.

Assuming that the damage output of Super Strength is comparable to the other Tanker sets (which is debatable), is Rage really that much better than Build Up that it deserves a penalty equivalent to a 9th tier nuke? Frankly, even the disorient penalty is too severe when compared to the rest of the powers in the game.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
Person A follows person B.
Person B then follows person A.

No variables missing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, that test could only prove that one pulls away from the other when using the /follow command. The question, however, isn't how Hover behaves when following but does Hover's speed increase or decrease as you level?

We simply have no idea how /follow affects the results, no matter who's doing the following. For example, the other day my wife used /follow on me when she had to go AFK. She has Swift and Sprint and I just have Sprint (and I know she had Sprint on because I could look over at her screen and see it). In spite of the fact that she SHOULD be significantly faster than me (and is when we are running down the street normally) I had to constantly stop and let her character catch up because it would lag behind a long way.

There is no point in using /follow in a speed test unless /follow behavior is the point of the test. All it does is introduce a varible that will at best make the results more confusing or complicated and at worst skew them completely.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
I love the Hypno Toad. best tv show ever!

[/ QUOTE ]
"All glory to the Hypno Toad.... *single clap*"

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
Actually the difficulty in the Hollows was increased, at least for the Frostfire and Atta missions as both are now elite bosses.

[/ QUOTE ]
The difficulty of those missions was NOT increased. Frostfire is the same as he always was (if not easier, considering two days ago when I beat him he only summoned one fire monkey), but now instead of the info saying he is a "Boss" it says he is an "Elite Boss". This is purely semantics for the player's benefit--he wasn't changed. Frostfire and Atta have always been in a class of their own, neither a Boss nor an AV. The new label was added merely to distinguish them from regular bosses.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
I cant stand the new bosses, I solo while my LFT is up and happened to get a mission from flux in the hollows. I am 10 and went to try my luck, I managed to clear everything but Cragnor (sp?), an 11 boss...
.../sign me up for the boss rollback please. I play a 24 blaster to and now fear any boss solo. They just have flat to much luck and the ranged attacks are to high (cragnor hit me with a boulder for 55 from around a corner).

[/ QUOTE ]
BlazinInferno,

The I3 changes to bosses were only made to bosses 25th level and above. The bosses you referred to haven't been changed at all. Cragnor now is the same as Cragnor before. The difference is just in your perception because you thought they had been made harder.

The only changes I've found so far in the Hollows is some graphical changes to the Outcasts, some badges, and the caverns trial now has a level cap. In fact, one of the Hollows cave missions has even been made easier. There used to be a mission with two named bosses fighting in the last room, Greased Lightning and Redrum. Now poor Redrum has gone AWOL and Greased Lightning is forced to fight a lowly Gardvord. Go figure.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, the only thing i'd trust is to both stand next to each other, target a distant map marker (IP would be good for this), do a 3-2-1-go and both head for it. Any difference in arrival of more than a few seconds (you'll never be able to start at *exactly* the same time) means that someone is going faster/slower etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking something very similar to this. Using something like /follow in a test to see who's faster could introduce a variable that would affect the result.

Have a Hover race instead. Of course this would be sort of like one of those Gas Mileage races that ends up being as exciting as watching laundry dry, but the results would be very reliable. The farther the point you are traveling to the more irrelevent the start timing becomes. If you both happen to start a second or two apart but are traveling one mile to a zone marker then the results will be obvious and that start advantage insignificant (especially with something as slow as Hover).

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
...I entered the final room and in the corner was a level 39 named Boss called Ulor. He was one of those vampyr boss that would chain hold me into 30k debt before I can get out a snipe so I had to leave the mission.
Now can anyone find any mention of this named Boss in the mission or am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Blaster_Babe,

Agreed. It should have mentioned a boss (at least that's the implication from Statesman) and unless I'm mistaken he wants us to /bug those missions.

But, I'm puzzled. Why didn't you just leave the mission, head to the nearest contact and buy a few Discipline inspirations (assuming you didn't have some already) and then head back to the mission? With a few of those to protect you and maybe a few Lucks and Enrages, you should have been able to handle that boss without too much difficulty. You might have had to use some hit and run a bit if you missed too much or he got too close, but it is definitely doable without debt. No reason to fail the mission.

Dwimble

The 24+ respec is a problem, but if bosses are now +1 equivalent then simply change that respec so that ONLY bosses spawn exactly one level lower than they did before. Problem solved, the respec is now identical in difficulty to the pre-I3 boss changes.

Dwimble

Statesman,

Please give Hephaestus a cookie and then implement his suggestion.

If bosses 25+ are now exactly equivalent to +1 bosses before the change, then please change their color-con. Starting at 25 the colors for bosses should be moved one step so that even-level bosses con red. Then everyone would instantly know how to gauge the difficulty.

As it stands now, you can be fighting along, see an orange level 24 boss and take him down. Move a little further and you'll see a red 25 boss. No problem right? He's just one level higher so we need to be a little more careful. Wrong! He's actually TWO levels tougher than the boss you just fought. Changing the con color would end that confusion over boss difficulty.

Besides, call me crazy but it's just plain FUN in the later game to be able to take out higher con mobs than you could earlier in your career. I know it's just a color, but it somehow makes you feel more "HERO-ISH".

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm not mistaken, Divine Avalanche only buffs defense vs. Melee, so taking it with Invul would not help your ranged defense at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right, so using it when you have Invincibility would be almost redundant. You COULD, however, use it less often (just once every 10 seconds I suppose) and more easily keep yourself at the Def vs Melee cap while providing room for a more damaging attack in your cycle. Further, it would still be very useful for Inv scrappers before they get Invincibility, then if they wanted they could just respec out of it later.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
Or just combine it with the mighty gazelle leap... and really hurt Dr. V where it counts....

[/ QUOTE ]
That wouldn't work because Dr. Vahz emits an Imodium Field.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Give up Dr. Vahzilok, you can't win... with my mighty gazelle leap I will defea...uh...oh...uh...excuse me I have to go."

[/ QUOTE ]

You're in a sewer. Just do it right there.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's just sick and wrong.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
I am going to simply start thinking of the Coralax as a wagon fulla pancakes, on the theory that it's as good as any other explanation.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sticking with the gazelle with diarrhea theory.

"Give up Dr. Vahzilok, you can't win... with my mighty gazelle leap I will defea...uh...oh...uh...excuse me I have to go."

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
I havn't experienced the +10 side of the Hallows but I also consider that place a debt-zone without a proper Empath/FF defender/controller on your side.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a bit better since they nerfed a lot of the mobs there, but it can still be a pretty dangerous place since most don't have travel powers yet. I remember one night my whole group died a couple of time traveling to a mission WAY across the zone. Finally, I had to log out, get my Emp defender TP everyone to the mission, rez them, and then log back in my lower-level character and travel to them by myself. It was definitely a pain.

Even the higher level stuff can be a bit of a challange...can you say Igneous? Super-speeding rock men that attack you in packs and hit like Gardvords. All in all I think it's a cool zone though. The zone-wide story arc (of sorts) is very cool.

Dwimble

[ QUOTE ]
Here's my suggestions for improving the hazard zones:

1.) how about a Mobile Army Superhero Hospital (M.A.S.H unit) at the entrance?...

2.) ...how about an army supply person who would level you and give you insp and enh (sorta like the grey ghost in PI).

3.) how about a contact in the zone that you dont neccesarily have to get from another contact...

4.) how about more zone specific badges for each zone, like kill 100 COT in faultline, etc...

5.) how about zone specific accolades...

[/ QUOTE ]
Very good, DrWinkie. I was just about to post some almost identical suggestions when I saw your post.

Really, rather than "Faultline & Boomtown = Ghost town" I think it is more generally "Hazard Zone = Ghost town"

With the exception of a PP and Hollows, most of the hazard zones are deserted most of the time. Even PP has far less people in it than it used to, and Hollows generally only has people hunting the quadrant near Atlas and Flux. You don't often see groups elsewhere unless they are making the freaking dangerous journey to one of the Hollows missions.

1) I like the suggestions and agree with them almost completely. Every hazard zone should have a triage location or M.A.S.H unit to give you field treatment (a.k.a short distance TP to them and awaken). Heck, you could even have a few of them in the zone and get sent to the nearest one. Since most hazard zones are HUGE and dangerous to travel in, that would help reduce the grief of having to make the long dangerous journey back to the group/mission, dodging densely packed groups of mobs by yourself.

2) Your "Army supply person" is also needed badly. Virtually every time I have hunted or done missions in a hazard zone, everyone's enhancement tray ends up full and it is too much of a pain to go sell. After 30 that may be fine, but pre 30 when there is never enough influence this is a rough restriction (that's what I always hated about KR too).

3) Hazard zones definitely need contacts and missions, that is one of the things that actually keeps many in the Hollows. It never occurred to me to have contacts there that you don't have to be introduced to. That would be great. I think the missions they give you should be fairly random too. One thing I actually DON'T like about the hollows is that the mission arc is completely linear and the same for everyone. So, you frequently have multiple people on the team with the exact same missions. That gets boring.

4) I think zone specific badges is a great idea. Hey, you're helping to clean up a hazard zone, you deserve some badges for it.

5) Zone specific accolades is the one idea I don't really care for. I like accolades being extremely rare. I would like to see a couple of accolades you could get at lower levels though. This is completely subjective of course, it's all a matter of preference and would be fine either way.

6) The only other thing I can think of that would help "fix" hazard zones was also alluded to earlier by someone... give them access from more zones. It is MUCH more preferable and would help promote their use if you could access them more easily like PP and Hollows.

Very good ideas, DrWinkie. Thanks.

Dwimble

Positron,

I don't know if this was an unintended consequence of your fix or if it is an entirely unrelated bug, but my wife was doing the Cape mission with a party of five today when two of their team lost connection right before they went for the Time Capsule. When the two people got back online and in the team they re-entered the mission and for them it was reset. When the team tried to TP them to their group waiting near the Capsule it wouldn't work as if they were in another mission.

None of them thought to report it in-game (I guess they aren't software develops like me--it's always the first thing I think to do) but I thought I should post it here. I'll also send in a report to support just in case that will help.

If you want to track it down, Her character name is Raspberry Razor and she was playing on Freedom around 10:00 or 11:00 AM central time.

Dwimble