DreadShinobi

That's hard to say. If the ATO proc worked properly, KM would be capable of keeping 160% dmg buff on both AS and CS, and 80% on SB and BB (in addition to relatively frequent Gaussian BU procs). Of course this obviously means StJ will have a greater top end because it has much more room to recieve damage buffs, but unbuffed worst case scenario the 2 sets should be even in ST dps if the ATO proc worked properly. And that's not even factoring in 100% crit chance on Burst, which puts KM way ahead on aoe.

They weren't listed in any particular order, also as Khasei mentioned, Claws also works.

edit: Oh, I just realized I said TW/Fire twice... One of those was supposed to be SS/Elec. I was kinda out of it last night.

Yeah I didn't mention it purposefully because it is on the "eventually will be fixed list"



StJ is going to be outperforming KM.

I know I have been flaunting around KM as really good lately, however in recent tests, this just is not the case.

The top* attack chain for KM would be BU>AS>CS>SB>BB. However there is an issue with this that isn't apparant when you first look at it. This attack chain worked before because the stalker ATO was triggering multiple times, so it would semi-reliably give you crit CS's (as well as making a whole load of other attacks crit, as well as cause AS's long animation in the middle of your attack chain. This was a bug and it has been fixed, the ATO proc will now only trigger once after using AS. After triggering it will place a "buff" on you putting you in the hidden state. This buff will last for a set duration and will not expire even if you consume it's hidden status. After you consume the hidden status that the proc grants the "buff" will stay on you, it will not be doing anything beneficial for your character except that it will prevent you from triggering the ATO proc again until it wears off. Yes, this means if your AS (which the ATO proc should be slotted in) recharges faster than the hide proc lasts, it will automatically fail to trigger again until the next attack chain.

For KM this completely wrecks it's top attack chain. If you can't reliably trigger the AS proc, you can't get your crit CS. If your CS doesn't crit, you don't get your BU recharged. Without BU recharged you lose huge dps and it leaves your attack chain with a massive gap in it. Basically if they don't change it so that the proc doesn't have that lockout window preventing it from triggering again, KM will never be a top Stalker primary. It will still be good, but it's biggest niche isn't possible right now.

The sets are fine, I just don't think stalkers were the right AT to compare blasters to, as the two ATs have completely diffirent spectrums of what is challenging and what is easy. The Stalker is going to take advantage when solo by having mez protection, armor, and the utility to remove any hazardous enemy from play. The Blaster should outperform on teams with more effective aoe.

Honestly what I would have done was have used a corruptor or defender to compare to a blaster. On the corr/def use a secondary without mez protection (no sonic, no traps), and no massive tohit debuffing to avoid all mez (no dark, rad, storm, etc). Each AT would be able to use the same primary. So say, the closest comparison to a DP/Dark (the blaster you chose from the original post) could be compared to a DP/Kin Corr. Kinetics would offer healing, damage buffs, and end management later on, while not offering immense mitigation values that would obviously make the blaster look bad.

However, as others have said, you can do this, and share your results, and hope others share results as well, but bottom line is, the devs are going to datamine for the numbers they need anyways. This test alone, even if 10 people did it, wouldn't be enough to make changes to the game. It can get the devs to look into it, but they're gonna end up pulling their own data anyways.

I'm well aware. Dark Affinity is quite a bit different than Dark Miasma.

Yeah, as Hopeling said, the t4 versions get a 25% dmg boost. It's nothing special, and at best is just barely enough to keep them away from being called identical.

Yeah that is also important to note. If all your server does is run Lam/Baf then getting your toon to t4 is going to be immensely more consuming than getting your toon to t4 on a server that also incorporates running the other more challenging trials which come along with better rewards.

I fully T4'd my TW/Elec in 5 days because TW was released at the same time as MoM and TPN, so my TW/Elec farmed those two trials non stop. Compared to if I had been doing the same with Lam and Baf, I would not have T4'd him out in the same amount of time.

There are a few good mentions of key recharge numbers in the first page of this thread. Which mainly focuses on getting FT recharged as quickly as possible.

I personally haven't run numbers since the set initially came out even for my own TW/Elec. I run something along the lines of RA>FT>AoD>WS/CB>FT, with a different attack chain for when under Build Momentum. I haven't really played my TW/Elec much since after finishing up all his incarnate stuff, so the stuff isn't very fresh in my head and at almost 1:30am I'm not up to working out the maths right now.

Absolutely.

45% S/L defense on Fiery Aura is (deceptively) extremely survivable. 45% S/L defense + Solid Resistances + Healing Flames + ~2000 HP is really good when it comes to layered mitigation.

Even going 45% S/L Defense you should still be able to get 80% rchg before hasten as well as having rolling Forcefeedback procs to boost your recharge further. For a cheaper build or potentially more offensive build you could go 32.5% S/L defense for an easy softcap with 1 small purple insp, however I would definitely reccomend trying to get a 45% S/L defense build first as it is very noticeably better, rather I would suggest a 32.5% S/L defense build as a fallback if you can't get the offense you desire from a 45% S/L Defense build. Barrier can also be used to assist with softcap.

TW/Fire is going to be very end heavy. You will need either Cardiac/Vigor or Ageless to be sustainable.

On my 45% S/L SS/Fire (which has fairly comparable end usage to TW/Fire, albeit not quite as much) I have both Spiritual and Vigor as well as all 4 destiny powers, all t4. When soloing or on small teams I use Spiritual and Ageless for maximum recharge while using Ageless's recovery to stay sustainable. On large teams/trials I will use either Barrier, Rebirth, or Clarion depending on what the team/task needs most and then use Vigor to keep myself end sustainable. Basically you need 1 or the other or you're blue bar will get devoured.

Fire is notably absent among alot of things. Fire is generally not going to be resisted at all unless you're fighting CoT or Praetorian Demons. It's just another contributing factor as to why Fire is such a good offensive damage type. It doesn't suprise me at all that it's absent in trials.

Doesn't change the fact that I would like to see the combat attributes of all the trial AVs Since I'm usually too busy leading to record them myself. So I look forward to seeing them if Blood Red Arachnid (was going to abbreviate your name, but i caught myself on that one, lol) does get around to posting them.

Secret builds are lol.
Keeping builds secret just because slightly more people will have access to the same purple IOs you have is even more silly.

I used to be pretty hush hush with the builds I made as I:
A) liked my toons to be unique
B) didn't like people taking my hardwork
C) didn't like giving them a pass to success before they learned how to play their toon
D-Z) Various other points of silly reasoning

This was mostly when the invention system was still relatively young.

Now a days though, looking at the bigger picture, helping to improve the community as a whole is much better than keeping ideas to yourself (Silas being one of the main people that helped me see this way after more than a few conversations ). If there are more people out there running around with good builds, supposing of course that they know how to play their toons, will make for a stronger game community, which is a good thing. Super awesome amazing build or not, it's not going to teach them how to play their toon, the 2 things aren't related. You can help people learn about and how to play a power set, and you can help them learn how to play the game better, and you can help people with their builds, each is different. Helping them with one isn't going to automatically make them awesome with the other 2, but getting them on their way with what they need help with is great to be able to do when you can.

Hey, alright you've got a pretty good build going.

These are some things I would do with it:

General slotting:
Switch your slotting of Fire Blast and Blaze. Blaze will benefit more from the SuperiorATO proc compared to the Apoc Proc. In blaze it's an 83.3% chance to proc 107 dmg vs the Apoc proc's 33% chance to proc 107 dmg. In Fire Blast there is no advantage over the Apoc proc for slotting the ATO proc.

benumb needs 1 acc IO. You need to be able to hit higher level AVs with this ability with this ability, and you want to still be able to hit an AV with it if they go into a defensive godmode.

No damage resistance slotting in Arctic Fog is . I would move your reactive Armor set from Tough to this power. The dmg res in Fog is more valuable especially as it also buffs your team.

6 Oblits is really nice in Soul Drain. It gives the same defense bonus as Rectified Reticle and will max out it's recharge, as well as giving you valuable acc, rchg, and dmg set bonuses. The base damage is also quite nice on Soul Drain, and I do consider slotting for it to be worth it. Soul Drain on top of sleet actually does very respectable damage.

2x rchg/end IOs in Sleet

Knockback protection: You want either 4 or 12 protection, 8 isn't going to do much for you though.

Power Picks:
Drop Spring Attack for Aim. You've got plenty of AoE damage between Fireball, Fire Breath, RoF, Sleet, and Soul Drain, as well as knockdowns from sleet, Spring attack isn't doing much for you. Aim will be a nice damage buff, especially when you use it when moving between spawns so you're not eating up in combat time with it. Aim can also take 2 rectified reticle for that S/L def you were needing.

I would not drop either Shield. They are very valuable to teams. Teams without alot of buffers on them will flat out love the defense they are giving. Teams that are already at the 45% softcap will enjoy getting to the incarnate softcap of 59% during incarnate content or simply having an effective buffer against defense debuffs. (if you are at 55% defense, and you're hit with a 10% defense debuff, that debuff won't be dangerous to you until you're hit with another debuff before the previous wore off.

Challenge, not sure why you took this. If you took it for the set bonuses though, I'd drop it. Maneuvers slotted with 1 lotg and 5x red fortune (or just 5 red fortunes, since you've got your 5 lotgs already) will give you way more defense. Switching to Maneuvers from Challenge will give you enough defense to get rid of the 4 curtailed speed and still have over 45% defense with the other changes mentioned, giving you 3 more slots to play with.

Incarnates:
I would switch from Spiritual to Agility. I had Spiritual on my fire/cold orignally (as agility wasn't available at the time) as well, but agility just makes such an amazing difference it really is worth it. It's going to boost your defense making for an easier softcap, it's going to boost your team defense buffs, it's going to help Stamina and Heat Loss, and it's not that far behind Spiritual in recharge. The healing and stun really aren't going to be doing much for you with Spiritual.


That's not great advice. Going S/L defense is fine and I would not call it wasteful. Honestly going softcap M/R defense on a resistance based fire/cold is way overkill in most situations. S/L defense and rebirth works extremely well with S/L defense. And if you're getting hit for more than 50% of your hp (which is extremely rare with the amount of resistance a cold can have) then you should be using insps to avoid such a situation of getting 2 shotted.

SL defense on a fire/cold is completely viable. (Kahlan's fire/cold corr used a S/L based fire/cold corr with scorpion shield, and he's solo'd the apex, tin mage, itf, etc with it as well) However there will be alot more getting through compared to going Melee/Ranged defense, and since Cold doesn't have any healing of it's own to patch up what does get through, Rebirth works very well when going S/L defense. S/L defense will be your primary mitigation, and Rebirth (and an occassional green insp) will cover whatever slips through your S/L defense.

Rebirth is much more valuable than Barrier if you are not using Barrier for softcap. Rebirth will not only get you to full, but keep you there for a good 10-15 seconds minimum. Past that it will still be a solid regen buff that will continue to pad your layered mitigation. Even on my own fire/cold that has 40% M/R defense before Barrier, I almost always switch to Rebirth or Clarion on teams (depending on the task and team) because with softcap (which is easily acquired from a couple of team mates with maneuvers) Rebirth is plain and simple going to do more for you and your team than barrier.

I'd go Sonic/Time then.

Pretty much this for me as well.

If it was used at a time when it was really needed then I might say something, or if we got double stacked veng :3

Otherwise, meh. I don't really care about announcing what powers you're using, especially the silly gather for RAs/AM deal. If you use it, you use it, things will keep dieing either way :P