Dragonkat

General disclaimer, this post isn't directed at any one person, it's probably going to be a bit long winded so bear with me, and 12am was a lousy time to try and read the last 100 or so posts, though the discussion going on has me curious so i'll get back to it later.

First off I'll just say for the record I've been playing coh since closed beta, I just hit my 30 month vet badge about 2 weeks back if that counts for anything, and I have in the time from then to now cancelled my account and taken a break twice. One reason I left, a personal bias regarding my first 50 character, my storm/elec. And the perception that despite a concerted campaign by the defender community, specifically the storm players to have the set looked at. Complete with a topic exceeding 300+ posts, all we got were some pointless platitudes from geko and cuppa. When it came out that not only were storm trollers better at the majority of my powers, but were also getting containment damage when all we got was vigilence, that was a deal breaker for me.

The other reason I left? I'll admit it's a bit more related to the topic at hand, and that's because I saw the arrival of arena's with quite a bit of dread, given how I feel about pvp in general, more specifically the kind of people pvp brings to a game, I'll usually just call them "validation of the greater internet ****wad theory" But poo flingers as Jack said works too.

I'll admit it, I'm as anti pvp as they come, I don't think there's any place for it CoH, I don't think it was ever needed for a successful game, and I despise with a passion the fact it was added in.

That said I wasn't surprised at all when sure enough it wasn't one month before the nerfherders, the smack talkers, the 12 year old mentality of i have to be the best infected the forums, infected coh, and as cov and pvp zones came in I watched with more then a little disgust the promise of pvp not changing anything pve go right out the window (travel supression and to hit debuffs among other things, but specific changes like how hurricane was nerfec as well)

That and it changed pve because of the first simple truth about pvp combat, if you don't have a specific build for it, or the right powerset for it (ice tanks anyone?) you may as well not bother with it. Or at the least not bother with someone min/maxed for it, which is usually most of the people who activily pvp and care about it. And I'll be damned then if I'm going to change any build for a sideshow now just as I was then.

The last time I was in the Bay? My then teen level tank still wearing DO's was putzing around cause I was bored and felt like trying to get a shivan, I played teleport tag with a dark MM who kept trying to tp foe me, i'd port away and keep going. But later on I had a run in with a stalker a good 3 levels higher then me, sent by the MM specifically to hunt me down, two shot me right through ice armor, and basically taunt me in broadcast and local nonstop anytime i tried to do anything in the zone. In short your average oh look at me i pwnzed you immature ganker who needs to feel big by being a bully and a poo flinger. One who I could clearly not fight back against.

Now were they playing within the rules of the zone? Yes I'll grant that point, she had every right to keep ganking me and stealing pieces as I tried to take out turrets. But was she acting with any kind of sportsmanship, decency, or dare I even say Etquitte? Not in the slightest, she ran me out of the zone, made me log out of coh because i was too pissed to want to play anymore, and was a perfect reminder of why I can't stand pvp or pvp'ers in general. The only redeeming fact to this story is that a few people playing villains heard how she was acting, turned about and logged in heroes, then hunted her down till she was driven from the zone as well. Tip of the hat to those players, if pvp wants to draw in more then a rabid hardcore base, it needs more people like that for starters. It's why I at least have respect for members of the PvpEC, they're trying to draw in people in a more civil way, despite my feelings on the matter.

So yes I'm a "pvp hater" As some would say, but only and this is the important point, only when it comes to cox. If a game wants to be built from the ground up with pvp only, pve only, or a mix of both, let it be built that way from the START. Not four issues later. Let a game stand on it's own merits. Pvp has always felt, tacked on, shoehorned in, and an afterthought by people in business suits who don't even play their game and wanted to try and cater to a select and fickle set of gamers, while leaving the loyal fans they had going. "Hey nice university, is it ever oh I don't know, going to be open this century?"

And that's the one true reason why I can't stand pvp being added in, the total resource drain in time, money, staff, and development that has gone into it, while those of us who play coh watch the game become more of the same, another generic mmo in tights that tries to do it all and fails at everything, instead of the fresh different game it was back at the start.

Why did I buy coh, why did I cancel the mmo accounts I had after 2 days of beta? It was different, it was new. And it had no loot, no pvp, no farming mobs, no crafting time and money sinks, no overpriced crap nobody could afford without a max level funding them, no phat lewtz where gear started having more of an impact on your character then ones actual skill level, nobody spamming duel requests on "teh noobs!", and a real sense of community.

And now?

PvP is still a sideshow that most casual players won't even bother with at all. Mainly due to the fact powers aren't balanced, can't be balanced, and won't ever be balanced. Casual build > pvpcentric build. And twinked out toons with maxed SO's all the time vs again casual's or first timers still working to slot out toons with SO's period.

Loot hunting no big deal? I guess not, I mean my SG two nights back had fun, we actually had an 8 man team of us all together for once, pity it was during switching between all their alts to speed run katiee hannon (which needs to be nerfed) One made a lowbie illusion troller specifically built with recall and invis to farm the cavern trial as well.

Wings? 20 million, yeah that's realistic. Same goes for about every other price on WW for anything rare. Unless you have high level alts to twink out lowbies. Costume drops are rare enough without people price gouging.

IO's in general? Yeah lets rip off diablo 2 and wow for the set piece idea, that's reeeal original cryptic. The last thing I want coh becoming is more like the 500 pound mmo gorilla I can't stand in the slightest. Whatever happened to the more utility belt feel i thought we were promised, not the shiny bauble syndrome we have now? And a whole 4 temp powers? That's definitly a [censored] for me.

Simple question to end this post, what if we decided to take this to general and have a little poll.

Would you rather have seen pvp tacked on and resources spent on it, or the dev team making a real skill or invention system?

Would you rather have the pvp zones with their silly rules and "mini game" mentality added on, or would you rather have the ability to have your energy blast be any damn color you please already?

Would you rather have seen the time wasted on 5 new AT's that are pretty much either reverse of hero side ones and an swg creature handler so we have something to pvp with, or would like to have shield and dual pistol powersets out already?

Would you rather have seen the endless tweaking or nerfing or balancing, and have time wasted on that. Or would you like to see defiance and vigilence made into something useful?

Would you like to have real content added in, more dynamic events like SC fires and creative npc behavior (thanks war witch) or would you like to see more recycled gankfest garbage that pvp zones are right now. Multiplayer maps aren't real content, they're just a hamster wheel to keep us occupied with squat.

No prizes for gussing how i'd answer, and if they keep making coh more of the same, or listening to the pvp crowd, the game is toast, they'll lose the loyal players first, the pvpers second when the new shiny is out, and that's that.

Not sure on exact BI's but i do know from expereience that build up + bone smasher + energy punch or slug would drop most even con minions in a heartbeat, and put a serious hurting on LT's and up. If it was a mob weak against smashing, sometimes bone smasher alone could be the kill hit.

Recently did a posi TF ex'ed down, the five main powers I had then being build up, slug, energy punch, bone smasher, and beanbag. If I had buckshot then instead I'm honestly not sure if I would have been as effective. 3 hard single hits > then 2 and 1 aoe that just makes everything angry is how I look at it. Given that i was one of the main bashers of those blankity CoT ghosts (gogo energy and smash) i'm really glad I had energy punch all the more.

Buckshot is left out for a few other reasons as well.

#1 lethal resists do suck when you encounter them. Even slotted out buckshot just doesn't do the damage you need (side note: I'm not taking into inventions into account, that needs more study)

#2 you have full auto and flamethrower already by 32, that and build up will leave barely anything for buckshot to hit.

#2a on a big team where'd you would get the most use out of it, mobs just won't be living long enough to make it useful enough. As the tanks and scrappers should be mopping up anything your inital alpha strike didn't drop.

#3 it's not just the fact that it makes mobs alive and angry, but it also leaves you with one less hard hit (energy punch) to drop anything that does aggro onto you. Or anything you might happen to aggro on purpose.

As for hasten...I'm honestly meh on the power despite it's boosts, more meh as there's no one power i'd drop to get it. Short of conserve power, and that's my 49 pick. Beanbag is too useful to pass up, power boost is essential to the mez protection, stimulant you need for aid self. The only two you could drop are ignite (see below) and -maybe- stamina if you use I9 sets to slot out health for +regen. Big maybe that though.

Which attack to add to the big 3? Currently energy punch, no contest, it's the other 5 star. And i'd kill right now to slot it or bone smasher with the pounding slugfest set. My ice/ice tank LOVES the extra 8% regen. And 10% more disorient chance on top of what energy melee does? What's not to love? Though i need to look more into I9 goodies for powers like burst and buckshot, heh and revise the whole guide for I9 while i'm at it.

As for the ignite question? Not a chance, stunned mobs wander too much for ignite to be that useful. I got good milage out of air sup and ignite for a bit. But the big 3 points above sum up why I do feel it's a good power to take.

Regarding unleashing hell so to speak, the real best time is the start, when the tank soaks aggro, bunches mobs around him, then the aoe's can be used for max effect. When things start going south mobs tend to be scattered, multiple people are getting aggroed, and aoe's are less effective. That's another reason I like energy punch over buckshot, for blapping mobs dead, and if they live pulling them off other squishies.

Target selection? Two schools of thought #1 the above as you describe it. #2 (and my favorite) Run RIGHT at the biggest target in a pack, usually the boss. And pummel him into the ground with the "5-star" hits. Build up on a minion is a waste when there's a boss or lt asking for it. Just make sure you do #2 AFTER the tank soaks the alpha, unless you find floor yummy. As aid self won't save you from a lot of incoming fire, even less so until you slot interrupts and have power boost. Or add PFF from the force epic.

For real fun mix and match, jump in, pummel a boss, then tap back and jump with flamethrower already at the ready, and enjoy the carnage. Lots of ways to go about it, just depends on the mobs and moods. (least in my case hehe)

Hope this helps to answer the questions.

probably better posted in the blaster forum, though for my own see the link in my Sig.

Hehe thanks for the compliment, as for the questions.

#1 Actually ran the finished Fred back down at 15 through a posi TF a few nights back. Myself, scrapper, defender, another blaster. Even with just slug, energy punch, bone smasher, and beanbag she performed a LOT better then I was initally expecting given our rough start. Even early game you can see how much damage energy melee does with build up. Against the Circle ghosts it was much pain for that extra fun. The classic run right at the boss with build up and reds, punch punch slug combo worked to drop them as well. So all in all I'd say its a good pve build even at that level before you get bigger toys. And another arguement against buckshot early, it just doesn't have the damage you need and gyps you out of a powerful single target attack chain.

#2 Perfectly valid tactic for where you are levelwise. Just like I say above anything snipe can do now full auto does better late game. For what may as well be sniper level damage across a whole pack, the only downside being it's a dot.

I tried a respec to put sniper rifle back in for a strech, but it just didn't fit with the more fast paced style of high powered aoe's backed up by hard hitting energy melee attacks. And I noticed 90% of the time whatever I had lined up for a snipe was dead before it went off. Unless it was a boss of course, but at that point I was better off opening with total focus to render said boss a non threat.

The other reasons would be if you do take super speed, then you can dash in before a boss sees you, pop him with power thrust's 100% knockback chance (unlike a snipe) keep running at him, and probably get off both energy melee hits + slug early game, or a total focus late game, before he's up or build up wears off. For again more damage.

In DO land sniper rifle is great, but lethal resists ramped up + higher mob hp + better late game attacks all add up to snipe just not fitting in. Though if you do want to keep it it kinda ties in with #3

#3 Leaping gone, speed in.

CON: speed pool means you miss out on the resists from leaping, but break frees can offset this mostly in pve.

PRO: You've got hasten instead, and who doesn't love your attacks coming up faster? That and it frees up a 3rd pick so you can keep sniper rifle in the build, but were it me I'd take conserve power a lot eariler then 49. Hasten also means a much faster drain on the end bar. So pairing it with conserve should offset this, and get conserve up that much faster to boot.

Hope that helps out.

Intro


The Original concept for this build started waaay back during the "city of blasters" heyday, and before pvp was in, much less being debated. Pretty much a time when melee blasting was thought to be a debt magnet "range = defense" And blapper was a four letter word, or a suggestion to reroll as a scrapper.

Quite the change now given the popularity of energy melee as a PvP set. And the fact blapping has become a semi popular, all but accepted playstyle. So it's with a bit of admitted personal arrogance that I enjoy being ahead of the curve on this one. And enjoy watching a pet project to prove people wrong became not only a favorite toon, but one of the best powerset combos out there for PvE (which this guide covers) and PvP to a lesser extent as well.

Special thanks also goes to the Legion of Freedom crew on virtue, notably Fury Flechette and Rainbow Avenger for their input, corrections and suggestions on the first draft of this. That and all of LoF for just being too damn cool. =p

The concept.

First off this build and suggested style is not a "Blapper" (though it does play pretty heavily that way) is not a "Hybrid" cause of range and blaps together, and is not an "AoE'er" or "Master of cones" This build to me upholds the whole point or ideal of what being a blaster is. That's damage, damage, and more damage. Regardless of the mobs, the situation, what gets thrown at you, and most importantly the range you're at. By late game range is less of a defense then it should be, more so when mezzing gets involved. So this is a suggested build made to take advantage of those times when close range combat is a better idea if not the best idea. Not to mention make AR/Eng into an AV smiter by the 40's. And when range is merited? Hehe that's when it's time to put out enough damage to make even fire blasters blush. The pool and EPP picks made to synergize with the rest to lend that survival ability every good blaster needs.

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The Powers

That said lets look at the powers themselves, and sorry math majors but there are no numbers in this guide. BI's, durations, and all that are not as important to me as the "feel" or "flow" of how powers work together. And how they perform past the numbers. Good numbers don't make for good builds or good players. Learning what you can or can't do does.

Assault Rifle

Generally an underrated set, and gets a bad rap because of the many lethal resistant mobs in the 40's. Notably malta for the sheer annoyance factor they bring. That and it takes some blame for being weak (wrongly so) as it usually ends up paired with devices and more lethal damage. (not the best secondary ever for this reason) Personally I think AR is one of the top blaster sets for many reasons.

#1 Swiss army damage with flamethrower's extreme fire dot, and ignite's ability to rack up hits as well. Most of the other blaster primary sets lack a secondary damage type. So these two are handy to have.

#2 Beanbag, it's a make or break power for the set and lends that extra bit of survival ability the way freeze ray or tesla cage does.

#3 Conetastic attacks and a fast acting nuke. Not as impressive as Nova but full auto is usually up when you need it, and shreds packs for the right amount of damage when a big boom would usually be overkill. That and it won't leave you popping blues after. The cones themselves and an aoe in m30 (if you take it) with build up lay waste to anything that's a minion, most lt's, and leaves herds nice and thinned out. Which leaves bosses without many baddies to help them out.

As for the actual powers. Slotting is added when it's a power in the build.

Burst: Skippable. The damage is too little, roots you slightly longer then slug, and the -def is not worth it when your best defense is a dead mob. Take it's big brother, there's no room for small powers here. If you have to take it though? Be planning to devote 6 slots and the FOTM combo of 2 acc 3 dam 1 rch. It might be worth it come I9 and inventions, but thats a damn big maybe.

Slug: Great range, great pull power, and a solid quick punch before it's being enhanced by boost range pushing it to sniper rifle distance. Handy finisher as well for anything the energy melee hits don't drop. Paired with a build up + sniper shot it's a quick 1-2 punch to drop a single target, but when you can do the same later with full auto and flamethower to a whole pack, and total focus drops bosses, why bother?

Any way you do slice it though slug is a vital backbone power early on, but later it will play second fiddle to the AR cones and a fully slotted bonesmasher/total focus. All the same don't neglect it's slotting. It's a long road to 32 and 38. (Reccomended Slotting: 2 acc 3 damage 1 recharge)

Buckshot: Passable damage, and buckshot scores points for having the same recharge as slug, yet being a cone attack with knockback as well. For this build though there's just no room to sneak it in, and once you get the big cones + energy hits there's just no real need to have it. It doesn't make it a bad power though. Depending on personal playstyle and pool tweaking it could be slipped in, or you could pass on energy punch and take this instead. Just not my way of doing things. A build up + energy punch + bonesmasher hits hard and drops a target fast, a build up slug + buckshot leaves them angry.

M30 Grenade: Every set has one of these I swear. I really just don't like this power and consider it the black sheep of the AR set. If it did a little more damage, or cost or a little less end, or heck both then it might be a better power. But overall it's just not worth taking. The other big downside is it's much more random knockback. While buckshot blows mobs straight back M30 has a bad habit of scattering them everywhere depending on where you aim, which is BAD when you need nice tight packs for your cones. Don't bother with it.

Beanbag: Take it, slot it, use it! With a stun mag high enough to pop Lt's it can take powerful threats out of a fight from the first level you get it. All the way up to 40+ targets late game (sappers anyone?) Before total focus you can also pair it with bonesmasher for a chance to even stun bosses. But that's a big gamble I wouldn't trust all the time. It's big use really is the tactic of mezzing them before they you mezz you. But it can also keep nemesis lt's stunned if you want to save them for last, or keep the DE ones from spamming those oh so lovely eminators on you. Slotted out with SO's it's enough to perma stun a single target as well, so watch that recharge if you want to keep annoyances out of the game. (Reccomended Slotting: 2 acc 3 stun 1 recharge)

Sniper Rifle: interruptable, single target, and just too slow. In the time you fire one snipe you already could have fired off slug, energy punch, and bonesmasher for a lot more damage. Slug makes a better pull power with boost range putting it up to sniper rifle range. And as stated above a build up snipe for one minion is useless when you want build up for your energy melee hits, or a flamethrower + full auto alpha strike that takes down a lot more then just one target. The one novel use i've found for it is outranging nemesis snipers, but it's a slow method of dealing with things. The one real use I did notice was that build up + sniper rifle + full auto was enough to drop non lethal resistant lt's. But only +0 or +1 ones, and when do most teams fight those?

Flamethrower: the last three AR powers are the gems of the set, and this first one can do some insane amounts of damage when the situation is right. Build up makes it scary enough. But when you pair it with build up and boost range a well aimed FT can cover an entire mob pack. And when you follow up with further hits *coughfullautocough* it makes it hard for most anything non boss to survive. The end cost though makes it a bad idea to use this power on any remaining targets or a single straggler unless you've got RA or another end buff up. Your other powers are for mop up, but as an alpha strike opener (more so on teams) you'd be hard pressed to find anything better. Like any big blaster aoe though do watch out for the incoming aggro you'll bring. And remember to always aim at the back of the pack. Unless you enjoy walking up to crispify only 1 mob while all his friends get angry. (Reccomended slotting 2 acc 3 damage 1 recharge, or 1 acc 3 damage 1 recharge 1 range)

Ignite: If ever there's an odd power, and one that spawns mass debates about its uses and real effectiveness Ignite is in the top 5. The short version is it leaves a ranged patch of fire that spawns a "pet" which does 30 very rapid ticks or "attacks" (depending on how one looks at it) of fire damage, damage mobs run from like they do burn patches. On the surface and in general not the most useful sounding power ever. Till you take into account three big points in it's favor.

#1 It's apparent base acc is through the roof when paired with it's rapid "attacks" I've been informed by Fury and forumites that ignite has been changed so it now has a base 75% acc and not the +100% its reported to have. Yet I've watched an ignite with no accuracy slotted hit foes that all my normal 2 acc slotted attacks bounce off. Now if this is just due to Ignite having a higher inherent accuracy, or just the fact that the fire ticks are so rapid they punch right through I can't honestly say. All the same slotting accuracy isn't a bad idea just to make sure. The recharge is fast enough as it is, though one slotted in doesn't hurt, or a range if that floats your boat.

#2 Even if only a few ticks land Ignite's damage is incredibly fast and rapid. It'll easily do over a few seconds damage on par with most attacks. Paired with a troller holding mobs or any knockdown effect and it's a brutal power. Also a good way to rack up damage on AV's you'd prefer to stay away from when fighting. An interesting point of fact to add is that ignite is also affected by build up. So white not the most practical way to use build up, you can all but double those ticks if you want.

#3 It's quick recharge and low end cost means it's stackable out of the box. Which means that much more damage against held mobs. Even without a pocket troller you can still put it to good use as an anti melee shield dropped in front of you, a finisher for mobs all but dead, a great anti auto turret or DE eminator tool, and a fun way to abuse mobs that have long animations rooting them. It's a tricky power to get the hang of using in terms of placement and timing, but far too handy and damaging to pass up. For the situations where melee isn't an option it's also one more tool for playing the role of ranged support while big hits recharge.

(Reccomended slotting 3 dam at the least and 3 rch if you have the slots for one school of thought, but 3 dam 1-2 acc and 1-2 recharge depending on the other)

Full Auto: Words just don't convey the range boosted built up destructive glee I get every time I fire this bad boy of a power off into a pack, and just watch the orange numbers fly! Flamethrower is bad enough, but when you pair it with the mini nuke of mass ammo consumption it makes for an alpha strike that few mobs can withstand. That's before you realize it's one wonderful ranged support attack fast enough to use multiple times in extended fights. And if you're playing on anything below rugged it's almost a no contest situation.

It may be less damage and a faster recharge but for all intents FA is a nuke. And when boost range is added a nuke that lays down one heckuva field of fire. All the same some of the rules of blaster nukage still apply, and a few important details to keep in mind.

#1 It's best use is as an alpha strike attack, packs scatter but once you tag them they get the full hit.
#2 It does root you for a good while, be ready for this. You're not gonna pop any heals or PFF till after the animation and any possible return fire.
#3 As it does make sure you handle any aggro you're about to bring, or that the mobs are gonna be too dead to care.
#4 Don't waste it on any single target below boss level unless lives are on the line.
#5 It's still lethal damage and as such does fall victim to AR complaints, watch the mobs you're using it on, and keep your flamethower handy too.
#6 Don't gamble on the crit hit doing your job EVER
#7 boost range gives a LOT of range, if you fire from in close to one mob pack, make sure you don't send stray bullets into the group behind the ones you're blasting.

(Reccomended slotting: 3 dam 2 acc 1 rch)


Energy manipulation.

Ahh energy... The set that turns AR from a "good" set into an "OMG!" one. Along with making a good blaster into a "WTFPWN!" one ^_^ The energy melee hits are brutal enough before you pair them and your primary with the 3 big "Boost" powers of the set. That's when it becomes borderline unfair what you can pull off. High damage with in close hits + wide ranging cones + power boost making pool powers that much better = heaven. So without further ado lets get to the goodness.

Power thrust: If you want to stay at range its a good power. If you want a lil tool for knockbacks and fun with ignite it's a decent power. But overall it's not a power I consider slotting as dead mobs need no knockback. But where it does shine isn't the knockback so much as the positioning it brings. Since you always want your selected target of a cone attack in the back why not boot him there? PT is good for that and the other reasons, but not really noteworthy otherwise. Though you do have to respect any power that knocks a boss on his butt.

Energy punch: Backbone power #2 right behind slug. Quick to recharge, downright crazy damage early, and still impressive totals when you pair it with the big hits later on. the 1-2 of it and bonesmasher solves most problems you come across with ease, and it's one more tool in the AV smite arsenal later on. Take it and love it, much better investment then buckshot. (Reccomended slotting: 3 dam 2 acc 1 rch)

Build up: It's build up, it's more damage, it's ready to go at level 4, do we need to honestly say anything besides TAKE IT! (Reccomended slotting 3 rch)

Bonesmasher: All I can say is if you didn't take this power why the heck did you even take energy to begin with? Paired with build up most anything can say goodbye to huge chunks of life with a single hit. It's energy and smashing offsets AR's lethal, and anything weak to those types like lethal resistant robots will be in a world of hurt after. The stun chances are just icing on the cake for anything that lives through the glowing pom poms of fury. It's one of your main sources of damage, take it, use it every chance you get, and enjoy the carnage. Just remember to not waste it on mobs an energy punch could finish instead. (Reccomended slotting: 3 dam 2 acc 1 rch)

Conserve Power: I'll admit this one lost a bit of it's luster post ED. Before you could perma it with enough recharge, now there's some very noticable gaps. Also if you play with a lot of emps or dedicated teams it's not really needed when the recovery aura starts flying or any other end boosting buff. But when fights drag out (AV's or pvp perhaps) or you run into things that drain you it's a power you'd be glad to have. I'm thinking it'll be my level 49 pick as before then I just didn't have room. Still it's possible to fit in depending on a few tweaks. But it's no replacement for stamina either. If you tweak in hasten or are one of those people who has to have it in every build, you'll want conserve to go with it, otherwise you'll burn that end way too fast. (Reccomended Slotting 3 rch)

Stun: An oddball power but also a borderline useless one with all that energy can do. The animation for one is about as long as full auto, and the duration doesn't seem much longer then beanbag. Overall it's not that great, as why punch a mob to stun it, when you can bonesmasher a mob to drop it, or beanbag from range? Still I did have it in the early game as part of my build, and pre total focus it's a boss mezzer with beanbag. But after you get TF there's no reason to have or take stun. If you do take it, plan to respec out of it at 38.

Power boost: One of the best "must have" powers out there for the sheer utility it can bring to a whole range of different powers, and the buffs it provides. Extra stun durations aside it boosts the minor defense you get from powers like combat jump (every bit helps) turns aid self from a nearly 400 to a nearly 700 hp heal, makes larger def buffs like PFF into nyah nyah can't hit me shields. But best of all adds to the magnitude of mezz resist powers. Meaning it packs enough boost to let acrobatics and it resist fully the first hold that comes your way. Extra immob resists for combat jump, and enough stun resist from it and aid self to take a malta stun grenade and keep on fighting. If that's not a damn good reason to almost have this power on auto activate I don't know what is. And no it doesn't "boost" boost range, you won't be shooting from across the map with both. (Reccomended slotting 3 rch)

Boost range: The gem of a power that makes cones go from dangerous tools into aoe cap'ed pack shredding weapons of mass destruction. Mainly due to something that's still not the most common knowledge along newer players. While boost range + slug just means you hit from father away, boost range and any cone attack means your cone is longer ranged. Therefore the end of the now longer cone is wider as well. Which gives you a lot more leeway when it comes to hitting an entire pack with one well placed shot to the middle. On something like flamethrower which has a wide cone to begin with it pretty much ensures nothing is getting away. "Must have" power for sure if you go this route. 3 SO rch means you can pretty much perma it as well, stack it if you have hasten.
(Reccomended slotting 3 rch)

Total focus: Most look at this and see simply pure wonderful damage. I see the tool that keeps your butt alive and a boss walking round in a daze where he belongs. No doubt that TF is one whopper of a hit, with build up you one shot most low end minions. But where the power shines is it ability to keep any boss (with the notable exception of arachnos crab spiders and shielded fake nemesis unless you stack beanbag) out of a fight with one solid whack to the head. Stunned bosses are non attacking bosses. Bosses stunned by TF and PB are bosses stunned for a looong time. Non attacking bosses = live squishie. And let you keep unloading attacks into them till they drop. Keeps them from pulling nasty stunts like the Paragon Protector version of MoG as well. Take it the first chance you get and don't use it carelessly. Never know when you beat one minion senseless only to see that lt or boss and his friends coming your way. TF has too hefty of a recharge time to waste on small fry.

Again there's two schools of thought here, you can slot it for stuns for that extra insurance (good thing when fighting +3's and up) But as Fury and Rainbow correctly pointed out this build is all about the damage, and power boost handles the extra stun time. So why did I only have two slotted in? Best defense is a dead boss after all. So once you get past the two acc (you don't want to miss) the rest is personal preference really.

(reccomended slotting 2 acc 2 dam 2 stun for the "safe" route 2 acc 3 dam 1 stun for damage and leeway, or 2 acc 3 dam and 1 rch for the pummel them good route, just make sure you keep power boost at the ready)


Pools

Every pick below is pretty much geared to one goal, max survival ability, with I'll admit a dash of PvP ability on the side. No gimmicks here, no it could works, it's all about living through everything coming your way.

Leaping: Combat jump, super jump, acrobatics.

The Obvious PvP choice with the abilities it brings to the table. But a set made even better in PvE as well by our friend power boost. And the set of choice if you want the mobility to be in melee ranged when you want to be. Hard to bring a fight when you're rooted, knocked down, or mezzed all the time. Sleep is the big weakness though in that respect. CJ also shines in the mobility it gives. As a quick tap of a direction and jump has you flying that way at high speeds. Letting you get the drop on mobs a lot easier, or jump back to lay into them with your cones. If you have slots to spare end reducers don't hurt at all.

Medicine: Stimulant, aid self.

Self heals are just too helpful, self heals nearly doubled by power boost are even better. Stimulant is more a filler power, but it never hurts to give the emp who can't clear mind himself a little extra help pre fight. Aid self though is the real reason to take this pool, both for the heal and the built in stun resistance you get. And that's on top of the root and mezz resistance the leaping pool is giving. It's not tanker level resists mind you, but it's enough to elevate a blaster from pure squish status. Just plan to at the very least 4 slot it with 2 heals and 2 interrupt reducers, 2 recharges is the icing on the cake.

Fitness: hurdle, health, stamina

No real need to explain this one, the fitness pool is pretty much a given now 99.95% of the time. The only thing I can really say to go outside conventinal wisdom is to consider actually slotting out health, and put a 4th slot in stamina. The way this build shapes up you have the room for it slotwise. Even 3% more end regen with greens helps to squeak out every last bit. And it gives you a bit of wiggle room on not losing power when SO's go yellow. That and I9 does throw inventions into the mix, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

APP Force mastery: Personal force field, temp invul, force of nature.

Personal Force field is a premier panic button power, and a great place to hide when you need to make sure Aid Self goes off without a hitch. An amusing way to play pretend tank too and soak an alpha, or just annoy people in pvp trying to get through it and power boost buffing it that much more. Also a fun way to make sure you get in close before firing off that build up + melee combo on anything around you. Temp Invul is a good armor, but it's a toggle armor so nothing that special but extra survival.

Force of nature though... Any power that lets a blaster take on a +1 fake nemesis and a +1 warhulk with barely a scratch is fun enough. But when you watch an even level Bobcat vs FoN and TI only deal about 230 damage to a squishie? Two words. NOT...RIGHT. Basically its a few minutes of turning into a mini scrapper, with the danger of the end crash after. Pair it with the geas of the kind ones accolade though, or hasten, or anything else that boosts attack speed further, and it's downright flipping scary the numbers you'll put out in that short time. Woodchipper on legs comes to mind. This power alone makes taking the force pool worth it.

Per Fury's suggestion again there is also cold mastery to look into. Hibernate replaces aid self and frees up a pool. A +Def armor like frozen is actually affected by power boost unlike Temp Invul. And snow storm means your targets attack less, good thing if you like to melee. Past those general thoughts though I can't comment much on a set I have no experience with. But it's something else to consider.

49 picks.

That last level has a lot of options. As by this point the build i'm basing this off of is only level 47, and has a pool pick free. So it could be conserve power, hasten, assault, even something out there as provoke or teleport foe. All boils down to playstyle and maybe a bit of a test server fun. But with the core of the build done I think it's mostly flavor at this point to add anything else.

Speaking of the build here's what it is in a nutshell. Or what it will be 3 levels from now anyway. Though some things like ignite might be changed later on. Given the possible impact of I9 a LOT of things could be changed. But being almost 50 probably means I'll devote my invention time to other characters. All the same it's been a fun ride to 50 with one of the most enjoyable characters I've ever played. And a powerset duo I'd really suggest giving a whirl if blasting is your thing.

---------------------------------------------
Name: fred
Level: 50
Archetype: Blaster
Primary: Assault Rifle
Secondary: Energy Manipulation
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Slug==> Acc Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Rechg
01) --> Power Thrust==> Acc
02) --> Energy Punch==> Acc Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Rechg
04) --> Build Up==> Rechg Rechg Rechg
06) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx
08) --> Beanbag==> Acc Acc DisDur DisDur DisDur
10) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Rechg
12) --> Hurdle==> Jump
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump
16) --> Health==> Heal Heal Heal
18) --> Flamethrower==> Acc Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Rechg
20) --> Stamina==> EndRec EndRec EndRec EndRec
22) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx
24) --> Stimulant==> Rechg
26) --> Ignite==> Dmg Dmg Dmg Rechg Rechg Rechg
28) --> Power Boost==> Rechg Rechg Rechg
30) --> Aid Self==> Heal Heal IntRdx IntRdx Rechg Rechg
32) --> Full Auto==> Acc Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg Rechg
35) --> Boost Range==> Rechg Rechg Rechg
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc Acc Dmg Dmg DisDur DisDur
41) --> Personal Force Field==> DefBuf DefBuf Rechg Rechg
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> EndRdx DmgRes DmgRes DmgRes
47) --> Force of Nature==> DmgRes DmgRes DmgRes Rechg Rechg Rechg
49) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg Rechg
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Defiance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

Hope you all can find this useful. As done right AR/eng is one powerhouse of a set, and with the right tools goes from squish to smash. Ranged support, melee bashing, and all the tools to keep it going at full power with as little mezz interference as possible. It's got it all in one deadly package, just a matter of knowing what to use when, or just being a bit on the insane side. As my buddies put it over global one day.

"So you're fighting Lord Recluse eh?"
"Yeah but we're ok, fred's blapping him."

^_^

Perhaps it's not a problem with fly itself so much as fitness pool interaction?

After all CJ + hurdle = all the supression free jump you need in pvp situations with minimal slotting. It's the travel power of choice for many of my friends too for this very reason.

Swift mixes with other ground pounding speed powers for more effect.

Yet from what I've gathered swift doesn't effect fly right? So if we can't (despite the fact they both really need one) buff hover or fly itself. Why not just let sprint and swift stack for more speed?

Total left field idea here, but what if swift (god knows how much coding this might take though) could be slotted with fly speed enhancers? Or just give a flat out bonus to it the same as running speed?

More choice is always better then less after all. ^_-

I say any build should be viable, ok for the sake of obviousness lets narrow that down, after all as was pointed out, a 6 slotted brawl build and multiple travel powers won't do well in PvP of course what's obviously left out by such a straw man arguement is that they will do equally poor in PvE funny how that always seems to be left out. But you've said a little opinion as fact, trying to make any build viable is a flat out impossiblity. To which I ask a simple question. Why?

Again this seems to me to always be PvP's greatest failure the fact that because of this problem (though I'd be silly to call it the only factor) it only can attract a small minority, and quickly becomes an elitest society of pl'ed twinks, (pardon the EQ reference here) uber guilds or SG/VG's in this case, the realm of those who spend more time tricking out a build then most guys spend on their rl cars, and the kind of trash talk that many of us graduated past after high school, *looks around thread* or maybe not. Specially if one has heard about the sitting ducks on virtue, I've only heard of them by rumor and expereinces from SG mates, but let just say the reports were less then glowing.

Let's look at Bob and Joe again, jump one server over, but this time let's make a fair comparison, and look at both sides of the coin.

Bob doesn't have an army of friends ready and willing to pl him, bankroll him, or deck him out in a nice new shiny stock of HO's they have, SO's if we're talking villain or most heros. He wants his toon to be the baddest pvp machine on the block, he builds specifically for it, even at the expense of his pve ability, sure it may be slow, it be debt ridden even as he doesn't have the best tools to make it up to a pvp zones max level, he might find it boring, might find it a grind to get what he wants, may even find it unfun that he has to deal with a boring AI whooping up on him when he wants to go play with other humans.

Maybe bob wants to team so he gets his exp faster? But if bob doesn't have the best tools to be an asset to a team, how long will they keep him around if someone more useful shows up?

And what does Bob do if the pvp zones are empty? He obviously doesn't care for pve, he's not "built" for pve, but he wants to play his toon. What then? If pvp persists in being a dead zone, or bob doesn't have a schedule where he can play in prime time then it's a lose/lose situation for him. If bob is not having fun. bob doesn't play, if bob doesn't have fun for long enough then Cryptic stands a chance of losing that $15 a month. Lose/lose for them.

Ok moving on to Joe, Joe is a bit simpler here, and fairly the same, but to keep it fair lets say joe is a coh vet, a good gamer with more then one max leveled mmo toon under his belt too, on par with Bob here when it comes to game experience.

Joe though wants to make his build pve centric of course. Why not? After all part of the point in SC is a massive large scale pve battle (something i'd like to see a LOT more of in game, not just in pvp zones) Joe's build like Bob's is tricked out the opposite way with a good selection of powers for AI abuse, is meant to support his friends, and all in all can really rock the house in a pve world. So Joe heads into SC having easily (or more easily then Bob) gotten to the needed levels people say to have for success within, is ready to assit his loyal heros/villains in repeling the other side.....

...And suddenly finds out his build would be great for dealing with the AI mobs, provided the players didn't gank him every 5 seconds no matter the Alpha strike method (_Ilr_ is dead on with this one) and his ability in PvP has been totally rendered pointless by some rather large mistakes from the devs, as ANYONE myself included with elec blast can testify too.

Joe's though after a while? "If I'm not having fun, and I have to admit not being able to do much at all certainly isn't fun, why do I bother coming here?" So Joe writes off PvP, resulting in one less target for Bob, not to mention an overall loss for the zone in general paticpation. And taken to an extreme Joe could very well go and say, "If most of cov is ending up being pvp in the late game, specially warbug or base raids, and my build isn't gonna do jack there, why should I bother playing and leveling it up? Why play a game where half the content becomes may as well not apply because i don't want to waste two picks for tactics in my already tight build?" Which again could easily result in that $15 a month going poof.

Loss of fun for Bob
Loss of fun for Joe
Loss of money for Cryptic

I'm sure most don't percieve it this way, but to me it's an equally large flaw in game design that a pvp build can't pve well, just as much as a pve build has trouble pvp'ing.

To keep a car analogy "running" Sure the minivan loses the race to the sports car, but which one does dad use to take the kids to football practice?

To continue.

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to nip/tuck the code to increase Joe's survivability in that fight to the mythical point where he gets to 'fight back',
There is no way to do that without MASSIVE propping up of builds that aren't meant for PvP.


[/ QUOTE ]

See statements like this, i'm sorry but they do irk me, you've got a good opinion, but it's not fact, do not treat it as such please. And you don't even bother to back it up. Kindly name one please, a build that is that would need MASSIVE propping up, not something silly like a 6 slotted brawl one either.

And this goes right back to my eariler point/wish. It should be ability that dictates a win, not a build. Most good pve builds already have some pvp viablity, my defender for instance took tactics for the pve aspect, pvp boosts are a happy trade off, and I do delight in seeing stalkers run from snow storms the few times i have been to a pvp zone.

But other toons? Non defender ones where the boost from tactics is certainly almost not worth the two picks needed to get it? Where tactics doesn't even remotly fit into my admitablly close minded rp'er mindset for a build? No, I most certainly will not take it, and again I think it's flat out stupid that the stealth vs perception mechanic is so borked that powers on both sides become a super "need" rather then a "want" And find the endless war of lets see who can stack the most as equally silly as how so many random powers seemed to have +perception just tacked on like an afterthought more then an effort to make it a meaningful mechanic.

No matter how you look at it folks can we all at least admit that a stalker taking stealth for the stacking, when hide is a first level power that works better is just a bit on the silly side?

Oh and yes i'm still a bit jaded over the whole end drain will be powerful in pvp, then fifty million powers having drain resist tacked on, along with drain rendered pointless anyway pre ED. I've got no problem admitting what does color my opinions on these issues. Probably comes from playing an ignored defender for so long too, double for playing a stormie, only poor FF has seen less love.

[ QUOTE ]
That's not even to touch on the fact that the mindsets behind the characters almost insures that even givent he exact same powersets Bob is always going to beat Joe because Bob is going to figure out how to best apply what powers he has. Not because he's smarter or better but because he's more interested in experimenting/trying it out.


[/ QUOTE ]

See again this is another pet peeve I have when people try to make an arguement, you are not psychic, so you can not offer us any insight into Bob or Joe's heads and tell us which comes out on top because one is more interested in trying things out, if anything i'd say again Joe wins over Bob in experimenting for the best pve build if you want to go down that road.

And before you even stat to say that i'm doing the same up above let me say i'm working from personal experience *puts on his Joe hat* as I've thought that very same thing regarding cov. Its quite enjoyable, but feeling like i'm trapped in half a game because i refuse to cater to the whims of the must have for pvp crowd, or don't want to waste my time with a second toon just for pvp is quite irksome. I'd like to see a happy medium, that sweet spot where..and i'll say it again because it bears repeating..abiility wins, not build, not the current enhancement issues with SO'd 50 heroes trouncing TO and DO villains in BB, and not cheesy toys like the IR goggles helping to break an AT's class defining aspect. Doesn't anyone else find that more then a little whacked?

[ QUOTE ]
But the PvP market isn't a casual market, by and large... it's a hardcore market... the people who by both editions of the game to play it.. maybe even have multiple accounts. And if you introduce elements to make PvP more 'broad' in appeal, what you're actually doing is alienating those hardcores.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the fact it's always been seen as a hardcore only area is why in the end pvp becomes a little sidebar for the minorty I don't feel Cryptic needed to even cater too in the first place. I won't be surprised at all if there's simply not enough players to support it because hardcore players are usually the minority, specially in what many would call a "carebear" game like coh pre cov coming out. Most of them are off playing a full on pvp game like lineage, or off in wow on the battlegrounds not here. Heck guild wars too for that matter.

If you don't get enough players in the zone, there's no point ot having the zone in the first place, and with all due respect how in the bloody hell is having MORE people in the pvp zones by making it broader a bad thing? The harcores will still have the better builds despite my wishes for this mattering less, they will still have the greater skill and ability which i'll fully credit them with. A good group made for pvp'ing who know each other will gleefully slaughter those newbs like leading lambs to a slaughter if a PuG takes them on. So what is the big farking deal with making it a bit more viable for all?

Personally? I'm going to have to go the more cynical route and call the elites cowards. Alienating? When you've just given them more poeple to fight? Please...not buying this sillyness for one second. If you ask me and yes I'm going to go insulting sue me, they're so afraid of losing any advantage they have that they'll fight tooth and nail to protect it because their precious lil e-peen quakes at the thought that someone might have even the slightest chance of beating their "uber" lil build.

[ QUOTE ]
Who wants to take the tradeoffs of a strictly PvP built char, if anyone entering the zone has a chance to beat it anyway?


[/ QUOTE ]

And who wants to play against a strictly built PvP toon when they know right off they've got zero to nil chance of beating it with a more pve centric build? And have to make the exact dame cookie cutter crappy in pve toon, be it needing tons of stealth or tons of perception or they may as well not bother?

You even the score a bit, you make build matter less and ability matter more, you've just killed not only my complaints but the very question you just asked me, it's two birds with one stone.

[ QUOTE ]
but building the system so that you don't need to make any concessions at all? Is foolish in the extreme.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is a system where you're forced into a certain route or a certain build just to have a chance be it pvp or pve, one need only look to an AT forum to see the opinions on the musts and the useless, specially scrappers and the often nerfed regen.

Look at this thread itself, I noticed a common trend I see talking with other friends, there's powers that are a total joke in pve, yet are total pwnage in pvp, and vice versa. Which goes right back to being told more then once by a couple that certain power picks were going to make pvp a lot harder if not impossible. Just as much as i've been told that taking others would make other toons a lot less pve viable.

To which I ask again, why does this really have to be the case, and well, can't help but kinda harp on elec blast again (hint hint here castle if you're still out there) I'd like to again see a much more happy medium then what we have now, just a different aspect of it here. Making any power viable, ( i won't go as far as to say totally useful) on both sides of the coin leads to more variety, less cookie cutter, ability for more people to give pvp a whirl, greater ability to enjoy pve when the zones are low on targets, but most of all what i'd love to see, and that's more fun.

Something which pvp in it's current form really isn't to me. Just too many little flaws and the same stuff I've seen before to really make we want to enjoy it. Good thing I do love the pve aspects of cov and coh so much still eh?

NERF HUNTERS!

<_<
>_>

Oh wait wrong game.

Various snipes, flames and insults aside, i'd like to take issue with one thing that irks me in this thread, the concept of "Well if you don't prepare you should be smacked down so have the right build to pvp!"

Issues with this.

What if I don't have room for tactics? What if I already have my four pools picked out with other things? Making a +perception power a "must" for pvp as much as making a stealth power one (not just hide here that's a given) seperates pvp right off into two classes, and we end up back at the classic debate of hardcore builders sleeked down for pvp vs casual gamers who might not have the perfect builds, and nine times out of ten won't stand a chance in pvp teamed or otherwise. Not to mention pvp becomes cookie cutter central, with even less room for variety then the fifty million forum posters still whining about ED.

Now let me disclaim that by saying there's a big difference between tactics as in build, and tactics as in gameplay and a good team. As the above beach fight example points out. But for me pvp always seems to come off as a failure because it instantly disqualifies most players from it simply because they don't have power X to counter fotm cheap shot Y or perfect build Z even if Z sucks totally compared to a good pve build.

But if you have a pve build you shouldn't expect to do well in pvp you say? and in truth you're mostly correct, but that's where I would ask yourself, how is pvp going to have the broad appeal and enough people particpating to ensure it's success if it can't draw in the casuals as well as the hardcores?

Most nights I go to SC or BB, dead zone, I really have to wait to see any good crowds or fights, and i'm not always able to play at "prime time" More so as my usual bedtime now with getting up at 6am for work is 10pm if not eariler.

Also think of when you first get sent there, it's around 14 for BB and for me it was 22 for SC, arguably about half the max level for each. well 2/3 in siren's case.

Now take mr casual gamer joe blow here, and watch as he walks in thinking this might be fun, total new guy not like a lot of the coh vets here, still learning the actual gameplay as well. Now watch as his first build gets janked, hospital, jank, hospital, camped, janked, etc. How long do you think he's going to stay if he's not having fun? Odds are he'll come here and fire off a rant like this idiotic nerf calls to hurricane that are so popular now. *level 50 stormie toon growls in annoyance* The point is pvp should be viable REGARDLESS of build, ability on the other hand is a whole nother matter. For me, it seems less about ability and skill then it does who has the most stackable powers or the best gear in the form of ex'ed down SO's and HO's course enhancements are a thread unto itself, so we'll leave that opinion right here.

I'm sure now someone is asking why then should I expect my ability lacking new guy to have any success at all? Shouldn't he lose and lose badly? I'll be honest here, yes he should most of the time. But if he's losing, how does he lose? Did he have a chance, did he have time to learn and think of a way to counter and win, or was there simply no chance because he kept getting stealth janked (not singling out stalkers here, blasters and anyone else can do it do, specially a stealthed controller sneaking up to mezz) due to just not having the right build or his must have +perception power yet?

Again was it skill, or was it build? pvp will not be sucessful regardless of what game it's in until the former replaces the latter fully.

Ask anyone who frets over builds like I do and they'll tell you there's just not room for everything you want. And I won't in any way shape or form compromise a build just to have an "edge" in pvp. To me it's not my fault for walking outside without a jacket, it's the devs fault for creating an enviroment where the jacket is needed. And to keep it going not making an enviroment where we can all chill in the sun on the sand with our swim trunks on.

Translation? Pvp should be a fair (as in good gameplay decides who wins and smart moves/teams) and not bullying (he who stacks the most stealths or tactics gets the first shot and usually wins) And outside sources shouldn't interefere with this. Which brings up my other big beef.

#2 He who has the most toys usually wins. And siren's call, 99% of the time hero dominated is where the big offender is, and it's name is IR goggles. Call it a whine if you want but a cheap to any hero 30 minute stealth breaker only avaliable to them heck only avalible to either side if by the grace of gods the villains hold on to SC, is patently broken if you ask me *joking laugh* period

The other powers i've got no problem with, web grenades are evil and I love them, and who doesn't love a free travel power? But this one breaks the main mechanic of stalkers right off, along with anybody who does go the must have stealth or wants to be sneaky route, and far too easily for it's cost and duration when stacked with other powers.

I'm sorry but it's not fun to me when i walk into SC, and can't even see my target as i'm stunned by a beanbag then 3 shotted by a blaster over and over and over, because i can't see him yet he's got a cheap and easy way to always see my stealthed behind. If he puts in tactics, ok i'm fair game I deserve to die when i'm found, more so as i don't have room in my planned build to waste on a +perception power. He put in the cost of power picks and I didn't, advantage blaster I won't deny it. But IR goggles? nope, it's unbalancing imho, same with the stealth reward you get from the patrol BB mission. I shouldn't "Need" it to stack with my stealth just to dodge IR goggle wearers or perception W...ladies of negotable affection

If not remove them outright, which i honestly think they should, they should be made to not stack with other powers. BOTH of them. It'd lessen that bullying aspect I feel all too well in pvp, and make them more of a choice, not a be all end all to survive.

I've dabbled a bit in pvp, but to be honest it really just feels like more of the same i've seen before, just wearing a different hat. And coming from a more casual aspect I can see it probably never will be for me unless some serious changes are made. There's too many underlying flaws in the system to make it the one thing it should be, and that's fun. regardless of AT, regardless of power picks, and regardless of style. But if being a "good" pvper means having the best loot (what little there is in coh/cov) the best gear (the must have power picks no better then the uber sword of leet smack, just repackaged under a new name) or the max level before i even consider it as some would say (a 12 should be at a disadvantage in BB, but it shouldn't be impossible for him to even hold his own) Then you guys can keep pvp,I'll leave it for the 5% or so of the hardcore population that love it, and write it off as another failure. Not to mention feel a bit disappointed that this usualy good dev team couldn't be the ones to get it right.

Bug(?) OR maybe just qulaity of life for stormies again.

Snow storm causes fear in mobs, whihc can wreak havoc with trying to keep them bunched up, or a single large mob in range for a team, doubly so when it's a mob with slow resist, but you want the -recharge to help out. As I learned the hard way with hatched krakens in the sewer trial, and the tank goes "turn the damn storm off!" As it was overriding her taunts and punchvoke, and making the kraken run everywhere, like toward a very pissed hydra head.

And on quality of life, even heavily slotted, the -recharge really is the better use for snow storm over the slow, specially on AV's Slowing movement is pointless by the 40's when every mob virtually has massive ranged damage anyway, ports, mezzes like mad, drains end, did i mention mezzes? *cough* Not to mention how pointless it is in pvp, but that's another can of worms.

The power needs something besides a slow, or a slow that means something, *remembers when you could stop vahz zombies with it* Not that overpowered perhaps, but something anything to again make people look for a stormie in a group.

Oh and since you're looking, thanks for visiting, but since i'm also still better as hell.

Anything besides "negligence" please!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that is rediculous if you ask me. i use a breakfree i should be out of all controlling powers straight away no questions asked.

[/ QUOTE ] I keep seeing this, i should be able to click one inspa and be immune to a AT. Fine i wont disagree i want respites to make my unable to loss health for 15 seconds no questions ask. So while you are totally immune to controllers they can be totally immune to you.

people need to wake up and remember controllers hold, what do you want them to do brawl you to death or better yet maybe those ticks of 1 from the hold on a tank or scrapper that isnt effected in the slightest with toggles on! ROFL, no the classes arnt ever gonna be totally balanced its not possible its a i can beat you but he can beat me and you can beat him setup. Play your AT in a team and have fun. I get held all the time i die too, so does everyone else. you think trollers dont die? they are my first target! i enjoy pvp soon as they fix the bugs things will play out a lot differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do have pets right?
You do have defender powers right?
You do realize you have more then holds right?

Given how you keep posting the same thing in every thread time and again. I'm really beginning to question that. If all you think of as a controller is oh woe is me i can't chain hold anymore cause break frees and hold immunity might actually work how they should. I got three words to describle you. Piss poor controller.

Try devloping a better plan then the other half of the pvp gankfest, this downright stupid he who lands the first hold wins BS. AKA my other big beef with how whacked the arena is right now.

Sorry don't buy it, but you almost had me until you said this.

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The only reason I can see for this statement is because you, or your team, didn't work as a team during your matches. Either that, or you were in a team that was unbalancing vs. other (i.e. 3 blasters and a tanker vs. 1 controller, 2 defenders, and scrapper). If teams are set up properly (i.e. Each team has a decent amount of ATs, no specific setups), and actual team strategies are used, you will notice that things will be A LOT easier for squishes.


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Well that and saying the words blaster like a curse word, yes yes it's a giant evil plot by the blasters to try and gank everyone. Didn't you get the memo?

Anyway the words bolded to make a point show why 1v1 must be balanced as well. Because if the foundations of pvp aren't balanced then as you say right here, anything else above it won't be balanced either, unless you have a proper team of course.

It should be a fair fight no matter what AT goes up against what AT. Now don't confuse fair with easy, as a defender I expect to work my [censored] off to debuff a tank enough to scratch him, I need to be careful to try and dodge a blaster till I can get in close enough to try and land some holds and go from there. And I realy right now need to be careful 1v1'ing a controller as if my toggle build gets held it's bye bye birdie 90% of the time. Defenders.. Ok i'm not sure as well how i'd 1v1 one of my own, the builds have a bit more variety. Scrappers, debuff, and pray they never get near me.

The point though i can think off the top of my head viable 1v1 one tactics to deal with most AT's on paper. But in the arena it's a whole nother story, I couldn't to save my life even slightly dent a tank on my first go, even with the elec blaster in a lil 3 player free for all trying to get him at the same time. He'd super speed through my slow, stun hit me to toggle drop, and 2 hits after i'm toast.

Totally impossible to kill the boy, specially after passive drop bug. I got a couple lucky toggle drops in with lit storm, but once he was unheld and retoggled, I'd have had better luck hitting a brick wall.

Now I didn't mind that much either, he was a tank after all, this was my 2nd arena fight, i'm still learning and thinking up ideas. (Well that and definitly respeccing back into hurricane) But it was a seriously one sided fight, and i'll admit a smidge unbalanced to me.

And therein lies the problem, if you have it unblanced at the start, then that unbalance just grows the more AT's you pile on top in a team battle. You shouldn't need a "proper" team setup to have fun in the arena against others, just to prevent what's currently a giant gankfest by some AT's over others. And no I don't just mean controllers or perma mog'ers. That just leads to bland and homoginized fights time and again, or the classic people refusing to start cause one side has X which is clearly better then their Y, and they won't change teams because they want to win, etc etc insert bilions of various problems and whines here.

Let's not forget that team battle isn't the only option. Battle royale is a giant 1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1 and so on, what chance do squishies have in that then unless they play vulture or be forced to dogpile or gang gank the nearest stunned melee or fellow squishie? Cause if they try to 1v1 a tank in that, it's no contest who is going to win, specially if two melees decide to be the ones ganking the squishies instead.

So what then? Does this mean we're forced in the great irony of ironies to team in the arena of all places? and when it comes to duels only melee need apply? Heh there goes that classic line of all at's being able to solo eh?

No thanks I could pass on that. Unless you balance the bottom you may as well not bother wih the top. Given that toggle heavy defenders and ultra squishie blasters may as well paint giant [censored] bullseyes on their backs right now, as melee rules the roost, specially super speed jousters or perma powers that I knew should never have been allowed to be made perma in pve alone. Least melee rules when we're not being chain held anyway.

No sorry, I agree with the OP. Color me very unimpressed with how busted pvp is right now, and not balanced at all. I'll probably be spnding a lot more time at icons, or leveling alts in I4 pve then I will in the arena if it stays as is right now.

Cause lets face it, proper isn't going to always happen with people, it's the nature of the beast to want to win. And what a shock that pvp is already bringing out the worst in a city of "heroes"

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From this I conclude the following.

Players will opt out of getting decimated by HOs one way or the other

If the only way out is to avoid PvP then it shall be so.

If the majority of players avoid PvP. Then PvP is an effective failure.

The failure of PvP will be bad for CoH.


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You left out one very important probable 5th result, one that I haven't seen many beside myself point out.

The failure of pvp spells serious problems for the success of cov.

Why? Because again it's gonna be a pvp enviroment, and I can see four big problems already.

#1 The best laid plans of any villian can easily be wasted by heros who, say do 3k damage with only 4 HO's slotted.

(Good thing we don't know anyone who can do that right?)

#2 Villian players have no HO equal to the best of my knowledge, how will they compete against howitzer packing heroes?

#3 The old EQ raid mentality. "You don't have the HO's like the rest of us to fight this guy? Bah you'll be too wussy to help out!" *kick*

#4 The vicious raid circle of doom. "You don't have the loot from the raid to be effective? Nah You'll be to weak to help out to get the loot you need!" *kick*

Also, if that becomes the case, are we just going to "avoid" cov the same way many plan to avoid pvp if HO domination becomes the norm?

I'm sure the accountants at NCsoft and Cryptic would just looove to see that happen.

I'm glad coh has managed to stay loot free, this ongoing debate just shows how loot isn't the means to keep a game viable if the hostile anti loot response is any indication. Some call it a carrot, I call it a poison pill for the long term viability of a game that has been moldbreaking up until now.

Skills, kickass content, badge hunting, and gameplay are a means to keep it going. And even then they made it so badge accolades aren't overpowering in pve or pvp.

Personally I also plan to make a lot more then two 50's (at least one of each AT) for that very reason, the content is so great as is the gameplay.

I'll say it again, if coh becomes, loot farming, constant playing to keep up, nothing but raiding, EQ in tights knockoff, I'll take my 15 a month elsewhere. I've been down this road before, I'm not about to do it again.

That and the mean mean person within me, wonders how States would react if he suddenly found a mailbox full of PM's with the title. "Keep your uber loot out of our game!"

Cause the only thing killer about HO's is how they kill my pvp interest.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind losing to someone who's a better player. I mind losing to someone's equipment.


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And when you cut through all this bushido BS that's the problem right there. And a problem that goes against the very core concept and the big selling pont of coh, it's a game for the casual gamer.

It's a game where we were told we can log in for a couple, do some missions, and we'll still be making progress, it's a game where you didn't have to devote every undying hour keeping up with your crafting, your raids, your camping that special mob for your phat lewt, and have a guild from hell behind you to keep up with everyone else.

I bought coh to get away from the very "hardcore" time sink crap that seems to be praised as what keeps a game alive. As I'll wager a lot of people did who were sick of the EQ and WoW loot/craft/raid mentality, and if things keep going as is will I stay?

BZZT WRONG!

If coh goes that route I won't hang around to play EQ in tights, I don't camp, don't raid, don't farm, and if that automatically is going to disqualify me like it did in EQ, daoc, and swg, because I didn't have the resources to keep up (specially with pvp in the latter 2) Then I won't bother playing because there's no damn point. and when cov comes out there will persist in being no point, as HO'ed heroes go tearing through the pvp in that as well. I'll spend the 15 a month elsewhere thanks.

But I didn't put in the work you say, so i should be lesser right? BULL**** That's not work, the only thing your vaunted work shows is you have the patience to sit through a slide show 24/7 to farm and camp one mob for an item that's not even related to the skill level of your toon or you. If that's your idea of fun more power to you, cause it sure as hell aint mine. But again to say that players should be rewarded for the very thing coh again tries to discourage (items, farming, and camping) and it needs more of that rather then less just shows one thing, you've got more time on your hands then me, not that you worked any harder.

We both work to get to 50, that's real work, farming and clicking a button every few minutes isn't, that's just stupid. And the fact that i'm being told now that I need to adopt a powergamer mentality for the last 5 levels of my casual game really goes against the grain.

And all it takes is skill to beat the HO user? Again BULL****

Tell ya what chief, if you think skill is all it takes, take your toon solo, a squishy not a scrapper or tank, walk up to antimatter, and try to solo him.

Now that you've just been royally beaten into the ground 5 seconds later if not outright one shotted, tell me this, how do you think back on the loss, and prepare for a second match with him?

answer? You CAN'T. If you're at your max ability (green SO's) and you get whammed down by someone who has more shiny equipment then you (HO are's not work or skill they are equipment period) Then you can't train, you can't prepare, you can't do jack. There's no way to win when by the time my defender finishes her first debuff animation that blaster with 300% damage thanks to HO's and 400% cap with build up has just 2 shotted me.

In reality you could work out, you can train, you can develop yourself, in coh we're limited by the numbers though, that's as high as we can go, and the numbers clearly show "HO for teh win!" as it stands right now.

As with AV's there's no amount of skill that can save you from a one shot, your only choice when someone has a bigger gun, and no amount of training can keep you from dodging the bullet, is to get the same gun he has to level the field. which means being forced to do just as much farming, or you may as well not bother trying again.

Oh and there's no honor in fighting a battle when the outcome is decided before the fight even begins, that's suicide plain and simple.

No thanks, I'll pass if that's what pvp does bcome.

Welcome back states, and if you want something to scour, I'd say here's a good place to start.

Regarding tesla cage from my own experiences, I'd actually say (should you find a spot) that it would be a very helpful power to have in this build.

Reason being that even if you do land the first short circuit, it may drain fully minions, but might have a harder time on the lt's. And there's a lot of really annoying mobs including DE and rikti mezzers that fall into the lt category who will still get a shot off and the chance to cause you problems. Doubly so as many of them chuck sleeps, which the build does lack defense against. But if you get the first hold off on them, it makes them sitting ducks for anything else including the short circuit follow ups.

Been very helpful for me as I go along with my storm elec, even 2 slotted (1 hold duration 1 acc) you can keep most things in almost perma lockdown. That and it's a handy group support skill to keep the mezzers or hard targets off your teammates. Heck it even locks down a malta herc titan how fun is that?

Might be my style and power choice that makes it more worth using, but I wouldn't discount it right off the bat.

Man I can't believe this thread has gotten so far without one of the best references ever, and again blame Mel Brooks, twice.

*Gets an army of lil heroclix figures dancing*

Cause it's spring time for Hitler! And germany!

Umm sir it's actually closer to fall.

Ahh! Did you see anything!

No sir I didn't see you playing with your dolls again sir!

Good! now go away! Can't you see i'm busy being pointless and random here?

Sir yes sir! But... What about those whiners outside complaining about predicted stun fests? Or saying it'll be as pointless as the last invasion?

If they used up their quota of stick removers then it's their rear ends problem not mine.

Very good sir.

Where is cov anyway... I need a loyal minion to taunt.