Dispari

I'm disappointed curly hair without the hat isn't on the list. Being basically the only curly hair we've seen, I would like to be able to use it without requiring a hat. Please have the art team look into it.

30 threads each for Judgement and Interface, 45 each for Destiny and Lore.

Uncommons are 60 threads.

Most of this is in my guide (in my sig).

If I believed what you just said I wouldn't've included the log. To my eye he said they intentionally excluded any alternate methods to make sure people played the trials (his reason was that if enough people weren't playing them, anyone who might be interested couldn't find a team). He expressly said that if they included alternate methods, people would do those instead of the trials.

If you don't believe that's what was in the text, fine. You're allowed your own interpretation of the conversation. But I was told flat-out, we intentionally didn't include alternate options because then people wouldn't play the trials. In the text I even disagreed, saying that I feel the trials have enough merits to stand on their own.

I already posted the entire conversation above. Take it in whatever context you please.

This is a nice theory, but it doesn't hold up completely in practice.

I used to think this too, until I was placed in situations that made me consider quitting for a while, or even actually quit for a while (I've taken more than one hiatus). The flaws in your theory are as follows:

1) Maybe they do come back. Maybe they don't. But it doesn't matter. Players don't have to permanently quit to equate to negative results for the devs. Every canceled sub, even if it's only for a month, is a loss in revenue. Ignoring people because they're "probably going to come back" is ignoring the loss in money each person who leaves is resulting in.

2) Maybe people have already done nearly everything there is to do. Maybe people are waiting on the next big thing to come. And when it sucks, they have nothing left to do. It's easy to say people either love the game or they don't, but it's not that black and white. There could be people who would like the game if they had more to do, because they already did everything else (having 1100 badges and purpled out characters, I'm one of them). "Go back to the stuff you enjoy" is impossible if there's no stuff waiting. People betting their subscription fee on the next issue will just leave if the next issue doesn't do it for them. There's always a pressure to provide more content, because believe it or not content does run out.

3) Maybe people are hanging on because they enjoy the community. If the community is hurt, argumentative, or split because of things, it could damage their reason for being here. If their friends quit, they have nothing left keeping them here. I played RO for years because of the community alone, and that game sucked.

4) It's illogical. People can quit for reasons that don't even make sense to you, but make sense to them. I've quit over things as trivial as us not getting any new free costume parts in too long a time. You can try to explain it or say they would've quit otherwise, but human nature isn't that easy to predict. If I'm quitting because the new incarnate system sucks, it doesn't matter why or for how long. What matters is that the system and I don't agree.

You said earlier that a non-zero number of people would enjoy the trials if they just gave them a chance. I also happen to know that a non-zero number of people have quit the game because of the trials and the participation system. So the real question is if your non-zero number is larger than that non-zero number. Is the system convincing more people to stay than it is to leave the game? And is that net loss or net gain more or less than not having that system at all? And is it more or less than an alternate system would result in? Because if you don't know the answer to those questions, arguing that the system is cool for a non-zero number of players is pretty much irrelevant.

I thought I would love the trials -- until I actually tried them. I enjoy teaming. I do not however enjoy crashing constantly, or being told I'm not playing my character correctly. I also don't enjoy not being able to do anything to work toward the rewards I actually need.

[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: are you Dispari?
[Team] Sudona Forte: Yup
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: figured when you said guides. I wanted to talk to you about the Incarnate progression actually
[Team] Sudona Forte: Oh yeah?
Barrier Core Epiphany is recharged.
[Team] Sudona Forte: I'm working on the guide now, recording the Destiny slot information
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: I've seen you post about grinding the two trials for progress, just wanted to remind that there are extra ways to get components aside from threads, ways that take no inf at all.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: But granted, it is a bit of a grind no matter what.
[Team] Sudona Forte: The Apex/Tin?
You activated the Barrier Core Epiphany power.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: No, not Apex/Tin - on trial completion you get a reward table that lets you pick any component of a given rarity
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Additionally, for every badge you get, you earn a random component
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: and if you complete a Master Of badge, you get your choice of rare component.
[Team] Sudona Forte: Yeah. My only concern is that the new trails are the only way to get componets though. Unlike Alpha you can't go do, like, an ITF and get anything useful for Judgement or Destiny. All the rewards are in the trials.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: it's true. if we put the new rewards in the old content though, people would just grind that instead, because it's so much easier
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: regardless of the number of paths we make, the easiest one will be ground the most.
[Team] Sudona Forte: I dunno, I'd do the trials since that's the only way to get iXP or get uncommon/rare/very rare components.
Barrier Core Epiphany is recharged.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: as is, there's only one path, but it's definitely the proper challenge level
[Team] Sudona Forte: I do think at the very least the Apex/Tin should give more than 2 threads.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Yeah, I mentioned that to BS a couple days ago
[Team] Sudona Forte: That's good, as long as it's thought about. =D
[Team] Sudona Forte: Just a common for any of the non-Alpha powers takes 60 threads, so 2 threads isn't much progress toward that
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: right. You can still do the 10:10 conversion from shards though. so if you do a hami raid, that's pretty much effectively 10 threads.
[Team] Sudona Forte: Yeah, I'll probably do some of that. Just shards take a while to earn and it costs inf too. But my main char has over 60 shards, so after I unlock a slot I can at least get started.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: One thing is, those threads don't DR on Apex/TM
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: so if we gave 10 threads per complete, people could just avoid the trials completely for common/uncommon powers
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: we basically don't want to craft a system which incentivizes people away from the new content
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: because the more people who are playing the trials, the faster LFG queues go for everyone, etc.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: it's kind of a compound problem
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Tell you what though, if you can make a succinct list of all of your concerns with the rewards and put it in the feedback section, i'll have something to point at
[Team] Sudona Forte: Hm, I dunno, you'd still have to do it 6 times just to get one common, not counting the 30 threads you need to unlock the slot. I see what you mean, I just don't like how there's only one real way aot advance over Alpha's "do whatever" approach.
[Team] Sudona Forte: I feel like the trials have enough incentive (iXP, uncommon/rare/very rare components)
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: well, threads = ixp
[Team] Sudona Forte: Oh I think I put some stuff in feedback anyway
[Team] Sudona Forte: anyway = already
[Team] Sudona Forte: I know I put some under the new salvage/component feedback thread
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Yeah, I have a hard time keeping track of what's where. I'll just search for your posts. :P
[Team] Sudona Forte: I put down about how much money it'd cost and how long it'd take to unlock stuff if you didn't do the trials
[Team] Sudona Forte: Cause even if the trials are the intended way, not everyone can do them (or wants to do them), so there should be good alternatives, like how Alpha works
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Well one thing is that the marginal utility of rares vs. uncommons is not that high if you don't do the trials
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: the main benefit to upgrading from uncommon to rare is the incarnate shift
[Team] Sudona Forte: Yeah I was looking at some of the Judgement stats when I compiled the info earlier today
[Team] Sudona Forte: For some jumps the only diff is like, 24 max targets changes to 32
[Team] Sudona Forte: Probably not something I'll devote threads to
[Team] Sudona Forte: So I don't necessarily need very rare or even rare Judgement
[Team] Sudona Forte: It doesn't give shifts anyway
[Team] Sudona Forte: And with Interface not giving a shift and capping at 4x stack I might not go too high in that one either
[Team] Sudona Forte: Destiny stands to gain the most from higher tiers, having looked at them all.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Lore gets significantly better at high tiers as well.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Just doesn't show well in the info.
[Team] Sudona Forte: Yeah, I saw how the buff pet becomes invincible on one side, and how the damage pets get a +50% damage power
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Alright, I'm going to queue up for some trials.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: PM me if you have any other questions
Warworks Total Core Improved Ally is recharged.
[Team] Sudona Forte: Have fun! I'm going to add a bunch of numbers to my guide.
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: Enjoy
[Team] Sudona Forte: You can PM me on the forums if you need
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: oh, need inf?
[Team] Sudona Forte: Uhh, I might!
[Team] DEV NAME REMOVED: there's 2 bil
[Team] Sudona Forte: Hehehe, thanks

Your opinion is weird if you're all for intentionally annoying your playerbase (incidentally, lots of "annoyed" players have canceled subs and left the game over the system; I personally have dramatically reduced my playtime and would probably take a hiatus if my account wasn't on a three monther) on the off chance you can get a "non-zero" (which could easily be "one") number of people to enjoy a system they might've overlooked before (and even had just as much fun doing something else, like the solo/alternate path).

PS: parenthesis

People who wanted stuff fast would do the new stuff. People who wanted to run TFs would run TFs. People do what they want to do. Forcing them to do something else is not a good idea.

If you did "the Alpha path" and did various TFs and the WST each week it would still take six months.

If you insisted on only doing the ITF it would probably take years. And frankly, if people want to take years to earn the new incarnate stuff that's their business. Let them. What's wrong with that, in fact?

I'm curious what your answer is. Is it "nobody would ever run trials despite their insanely huge advantages over spamming the ITF because I think that all people are predictably drawn to what I personally consider to be easier content" ?

I'm not just talking about soloing (I specifically mentioned the Alpha path which requires mostly task forces). I'm saying they declined adding absolutely any alternate method whatsoever because they wanted to guarantee that if people wanted incarnate stuff they had to play trials. There were tons of suggestions in beta, ranging from "use the Alpha method" to "use the Alpha salvage and shards instead," to "let us get thread drops on +4 difficulties" to "reduce the costs so they're more reasonable to earn," to "let the Apex/Tin TFs drop stuff for the new slots," and the devs weren't interested in any of them.

The people you're talking about are looking for the fastest and easiest method. The path of least resistance would be to run a few half-hour trials and be done with everything in a few days, rather than run missions for six months. As long as we're talking about fastest, easiest, path of least resistance, and whatever, trials will always win. You would be crazy to think that people looking for the shortest route to the end would opt for the one that takes 24 times longer.

And people who want to solo will solo; that has nothing to do with what alternative methods are available to them. If people's preference is one type of content, they'll do that type of content even if it's not the most efficient. My preference is "anything but trials," so as soon as we get another option I'll unretire my other incarnates to get started.

And "organizing" a trial is not hard. Only one person has to do any organizing. Idle in RWZ or Pocket D and someone will do all the organizing for you.

If that was universally true it would contradict what I said and what I was told. I was told they didn't want to have an alternate option even if it was slower. What you're saying is people would always take the easier path. Which because trials can be stupidly fast, and give every single kind of component and iXP, would always be the fastest and easiest (they're even pretty short).

I even mentioned all this to the dev I spoke with. Trials already have huge advantages over other systems like how Alpha advances; you can't go earn uncommons or very rares with the Alpha system. Any equivalent system still wouldn't have the advantages of iXP or randomly getting a very rare. But they still didn't want to add the possibility of people not playing trials.

Think about it for a minute; they introduced an entire new system that revolves around trials rather than something that is equivalent to the Alpha system. If it still worked off the Alpha system it would require you to run enough task forces or earn enough shards to get 64 common components. You'd have to earn 24 rare components (24 WSTs, which is a minimum investment of 6 months). Rather than offer an alternative that would take six months to finish, they forced us to play trials that you could complete in just one week (I know, because I did), entirely because they were afraid people wouldn't play the trials.

I would gladly do almost any alternative option they could possibly introduce because I A) can't run trials without severe system problems, B) just plain don't enjoy the trials because of the system. If what you said was true, they would have nothing to fear by adding the Alpha path as an option, because nobody would ever use it because it's significantly slower. But plenty of people have plenty of reasons to want to run something other than trials.

True story: A dev told me in beta they were afraid people wouldn't run the trials they put so much work into if there was an alternative (even if the alternative was slower).

Instead of just making sure the trials are fun and stand on their own merits, they decided to force play of them by making them the only way to advance.

Any new system they introduced would naturally fall somewhere between "laughably fast" and "unimaginably slow." Which is to say, it would be somewhere between the two current options.

Granted the trial method can go slow if you're unlucky, but it can also be laughably fast. The devs could literally introduce an option that gave you 1000 threads a day and it would still be (potentially) slower than grinding trials. And still cost more inf (since the trial method inf costs can easily be negative).

On the other end of the spectrum, the devs would be hard-pressed to make a solo option that's worse than "earn shards and make them into threads" option we currently have, which is unimaginably slow. At a reasonable pace it would still take 2.7 years and cost literally billions of inf. You could reduce the amount of time you take -- by drastically increasing the billions of inf you spend and the hours you grind shards a day. A time-locked system that only allows you to earn one common component a day would still be faster and more attainable than what we currently have as an alternative.

In other words, it's nearly impossible that any system they introduce wouldn't be an improvement for solo players.

It stacks up to 5x and the duration is pretty short. It's actually a lot harder to stack the DoT than all the other procs. And if everything is dying anyway, that doesn't mean it's not still better than purple procs. It just means none of your procs matter.

And the 10 second rule applies to regular and purple procs too. It's what keeps them from being unbalanced.

Reactive procs for about 13.38 damage, and it hits up to 5 times (it doesn't stop if one misses). That means you have 5 chances at 75% proc rate to do 13.38 damage, every single time you activate any power. That means:

13.38 * 5 * 0.75 = 50.175

Over time your Reactive is adding about 50 damage per attack. It's even pretty consistent, you will almost always add at least some damage to the attack. And generally speaking it's going to be at least 40.

Compare that to a purple proc, which may do 107 damage, but only at a 33% chance. That means the majority of the time the proc is doing nothing. And over time it's only doing 107 * 0.33 = 35.31.

Reactive adds about 50% more damage than adding a purple proc to every single one of your attacks would. With zero enhancement slot investment. So excuse me if I'm not sympathetic toward people threatening to delete characters who have to deal with their powers "only" being 50% more powerful than purples in every attack.

So having one or two powers out of your whole arsenal that only does about 50% more damage than a purple proc is a slap in the face. I understand.

It should be closer to 50 damage, and all your other powers stack this too. Not just your damage toggle.

For the tenth time, the one target thing is an issue that's going to be corrected soon.

The only power of yours this should even be currently affecting is Quills (and I didn't even check to see if that's accurate or not; it may only be happening to rains and not toggles).

I still prefer "so underpowered it's funny" to "so overpowered it's funny." At least the former doesn't break anything.

VEAT auras and Maneuvers don't go leaguewide, only teamwide. And Barrier's upkeepable portion is only 5% at max (larger in bursts, but dips down to 5%, or even off if it's not at VR).

So, on a league it would take 12 people (most of a Lambda or half of a BAF) with VR Barriers to make FF not worthwhile. Or 3-4 VEATs per team. And you would always have to be in buff range of the AoEs every time.

Now FF not being "exciting" is a different issue entirely. One I tend to agree with which is why I don't play the set. But as far as actual contribution to a team, it would be very hard for it to not be useful to a league. However, if you're just looking for justification to delete a character, then go for it. If you don't like the character, it can't be helped.

It does, and it's supposed to. Right now it only hits one target, but devs already said they would be fixing that.

If you're deleting your character because you don't get the overpowered rains despite the fact that Reactive gives a very large damage bonus to every other damage power you own, I hope you have fun in SWTOR.

No, there's no stat that just resists -RES. Meaning AVs have no actual resistance to -RES. Resistance itself resists -RES. If you have 50% S/L RES and you deal S/L damage, you will resist half of any -RES debuff.

But as I said, the way -RES works, you're still increasing your damage by the same percentage regardless of how much RES they do or don't have.

It only reduces +ToHit buffs they might have (which almost no enemies have), not their base hit rate.