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Posts
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Quote:I skipped the hold. I'm on an Ice/Time Corruptor and around 24 I only just bothered to take my ice hold. Honestly I haven't felt like I needed any holds on this particular character. Oh, I have characters that spam holds like my Necro/Dark MM, but this character has better things to be doing.What powers have you guys skipped? All of them look really good
I also find that Distortion Field isn't that potent of an effect so I'm still putting it off. I tested the character a lot in beta, and I had too many powers to bother with holds, and I wasn't using Distortion Field much.
The set seems to bloom at high levels. The 28 and 38 powers are a huge boon to teams and put you high up there in terms of team buffs. -
That backpack is retardedly expensive. I mean that in the nicest way. It needs to come down or go on sale before I'll consider buying it. This is coming from someone who has every other pack (and I got them when they were $9.99 and not 400 points). Yes even the origins and party packs.
That backpack alone is $1.00. Meaning that backpack is worth 1/5 of an entire costume pack now that may have 50-80 costume pieces. I know people have spent that money on it. But there are lots of things on the market right now that I'm not going to touch at their current prices. This backpack is among them (other things include costume slots and enhancement slots).
And before you suggest I use my monthly points on it, I'm saving those for powersets that come out -- and packs like the Barbarian pack which I actually did buy because it's fairly priced. -
At the moment it's so uncommon (and easy to avoid) that I don't think it warrants anything special. If later incarnate stuff starts making it a lot more common I'd imagine a future incarnate level would give us some RES to incarnate-specific attacks like that.
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Quote:The problem I still have with this continued argument is that you're acting as though the untyped damage in trials and task forces is completely unavoidable and therefore unfair. You keep talking about how no matter how great the Tank is -- including arguments about Tanks that can solo +4/x8 Arachnos -- he's going to get one-shotted. But the character I usually take to trials is a Widow with 1400 HP and 0% RES, and she doesn't get killed by Marauder.Cheating in a sense that they use autohit debuffs? That's hardly equivalent to indiscriminately taking an equal amount of health from all characters. Those defense debuffs are still going to scale appropriately because different sets/builds/etc have different starting defense.
Because... all it takes to avoid the untyped damage that Marauder does, or the nuke patches in an Apex, is to follow directions and not stand there. I wouldn't even call that a strategy since it doesn't require coordination or instructions from your peers. All you have to do is follow the instructions and not stand there. So the repeated insistence that it's cheating and unfair makes me wonder why, exactly, you can't just move. Or alternately, why your argument really boils down to "I want to not move and still not die." Because really all the untyped damage presented thus far outside of Hamidon is easily avoidable.
And really, what you're actually complaining about is that despite your defenses and HP you're getting dropped to 1 HP. Even before trials, that could happen to my Widow all the time. BABs even before he chugs beer can do that. Hell, if a Knives boss crits they can drop my Widow to 1 HP. So I'm guessing it's only unfair when enemies do that to Tanks. Because it's business as usual for my Widow, and I don't consider it unfair when an AV drops her to 1 HP. Would it make you feel better if instead of doing untyped damage he simply did 50,000 base damage so you still get one-shotted anyway? -
Quote:In order for there to be any point to the game there has to be a risk of failure. You and others are expressing that you want there to never be a risk of death for Tanks or IOed out tough characters. You want to be completely unkillable with no risk involved. Even in the most difficult and high-end situations in the game.Because this isn't a comic book (its' a video game), because my characters aren't called out as being weak to these things at the time they were created and because (unlike at least one of your examples) my characters are not regularly threatened by those exploiting known weaknesses with such things
In other words, when the game flashes huge letters saying "DON'T STAND THERE YOU IDIOT, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY," you want to be able to just stand there anyway, and survive, because your character isn't supposed to have a kryptonite.
In fact that's not even a "kryptonite." The bosses are just flat-out more powerful than you. That's why they can hurt you. But you're saying even that's not acceptable.
That's a good parallel; I'd say the reason untyped damage exists is that totally undefeatable players are overpowered. -
Quote:So uh, what you're saying is it's not acceptable for any enemy to do more damage than a squishy's max HP, because that would actually do significant damage to a Tank. Really what you're saying is that nothing should be capable of actually hurting a Tank, because anything that could do that would be destroying non-Tank ATs which would be too close to dealing "fixed damage indiscriminately."And myself and many others are of the opinion that tanks are tanks and high survivability builds are highly survivable for a reason. The minute you start dealing a fixed amount of damage indiscriminately across everyone regardless of the strengths and weaknesses of their build or Archetype is the minute those things become totally irrelevant and the very fundamentals of having builds and archetypes in the first place is called into question.
You're also saying that having just one scenario, or even one single power in a fight, completely invalidates the point of your entire character. I already went over how designing an entire encounter around untyped damage is stupid (Hamidon) but having one single power in an entire trial does not invalidate your build or AT.
Your character is basically invincible in all other content other than this one power that one guy does. You want to be able to ignore that too. What you're literally saying is you don't want Tanks to be able to be killed. By anything. -
Quote:I slowly drift back and forth between Scrappers and Brutes. Sometimes I feel like just doing consistent high damage, sometimes I like to tank and do more damage when surrounded. But there are things about each AT I like and dislike. Lately I've been leaning back toward Scrappers more after having played and abandoned a bunch of Brutes. More lately I sound like you; disliking Fury and just wanting to do damage all the time.I HATE Brutes. As far as I'm concerned, Fury is the antonym to fun. No matter the primary, no matter the secondary, playing a Brute is the least fun I've ever had in this game.
I think my StJ and TW toons will be Scrappers. -
Quote:I think the point is that the intention of the power (or enemy or scenario) is to do enough damage that it would kill Tanks. Meaning it already does the appropriate amount of damage based on character survivability. If it's designed to kill or nearly kill Tanks, it will do the same to every other AT as well.Haha, alright. Please point out where I said that the attacks shouldn't be powerful? I don't intend on any set, build, or otherwise to not ever sustain any damage. I just think the damage should be scaling appropriately based on individual character survivability rather than just destroying everything indiscriminately.
Unless your suggestion is that nothing should be able to kill (or nearly kill) Tanks. Ever. Because I'm curious: if no other enemies can kill you, and the biggest and strongest enemies in the game have to be limited in the damage they do so they can't actually kill you, why should enemies even bother doing damage at all? If enemies were never a threat we could just fight cardboard boxes. -
Quote:Weird, Doms are one of my favorite ATs. It's true it may be hard to tell if they want to do damage or mez -- it's because they're designed that way. In a good way. They're designed as if both of those things are their primary. They don't do low damage. In fact their damage modifier is one of the highest in the game.It seems like it can't decide whether it wants to deal out damage or commit crowd control, and it doesn't really have the strength to perform the former and all too infrequently has the power to do the latter.
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It's definitely not casual-friendly.
I try to equate them to Blasters. They can do pretty good damage if you're careful with them and don't get yourself killed. They have the ability to mez enemies away and take or mitigate alphas if you play them well. I feel they're casual friendly enough because you can just play them like a damage dealer and get pretty good results. Then once you learn how to integrate mezzes, you have a strong character.
It's definitely click-heavy and they do have their issues (endurance consumption). I can see why it's not for everyone. But I like them.
Quote:You have the *exact* same view of MMs I had when dealing with my Bots/FF mastermind. I could not *stand* the AT thanks to that one character. Like your description, it didn't even feel like I needed to be there after the summon/buff. It put me off even trying to level the others.
I got a more active powerset combo (Thugs/Poison) and it was a complete turnaround. Healing, buffing, debuffing, it kept me actually involved and that character became one of my all time favourites. -
There are a lot of sets I'm passive about or don't particularly want to play (Electric Armor, Poison, Sonic, Super Reflexes, Spines to name a few). But these are the ones I actively don't like.
Lame ATs:
Defenders - Low damage, and they don't really seem to have enough bonus in things like buffing to matter significantly. If I had the option I'd always take a Corruptor over a Defender. Or a Controller, MM, or VEAT. There may be certain comparisons when it comes to powersets that are obvious (high support Defender over a low support MM), but there's never a time where I feel like I "need" a Defender over another support AT.
Tankers - Low damage (again), and like Defenders don't stand out enough. I can already make Scrappers and Brutes that can solo on x8. I have a Brute that can do +4/x8. Why would I need to be able to survive more than that? Especially when it comes at a loss. I gain survivability for the may be 1% of the game where it matters, and lose damage for the 100% of the game where it matters. Not a fair trade.
Stalkers - Nothing they can do that someone else can't do better. If they were the undispuated ST damage kings or something, then sure. But they aren't. Their lack in survival isn't made up for in any way. Their damage isn't great and they're outdone in AoE. They should do much more damage. I've never made a Stalker I didn't feel would be better as a Scrapper (or my Widow).
Kheldians - Just poorly designed overall with no real strengths or advantages. Combine with too many powers and not enough slots, and even with IOs or HOs and Alpha slot I can't make a build I'd want to play. They do a little of everything from melee, range, mez, and survival. But not enough of any of those to be worth it. You can get a much better combination of those things if you just play a VEAT instead.
Controllers - I won't say I don't like having them around, I just don't like playing them. I can't handle low damage ATs, and some combinations even leave me doing nothing at all a good amount of time.
Lame Powersets:
Assault Rifle - No Aim, not enough ST, and impractical powers with too much variance in range. And not even a good reliable secondary effect. Despite Dual Pistols not having Aim, I still think it's a much better designed set and actually like playing it.
Devices - No Build Up, and nothing I even want to use in combat. Arguably it's getting better, but the set still lacks a lot of stuff I'd want to have to consider it worth playing. The only good thing I can say about it is that you can skip most of the powers and not worry about being gimp.
Trick Arrow - The only "support" set I don't consider a support set. If I have a Defender on the team who has Trick Arrow, I go find another character to support. Storm, Dark, Rad, Cold, and Traps all debuff better than TA and STILL get buffs on top of that.
Energy Melee - Not enough AoE, and too slow. I feel very sluggish playing it, and it's just not a good set for what it's supposed to do. You can ST better than it with any number of sets, and it's no good at AoE or aggro management (which also requires AoE).
Ninjas - They really bring nothing to the table. Along with Mercs they're probably the least popular. But Ninjas are just so fragile since they have no support of any kind, no RES, and very very little DEF. And they have to be in melee most of the time. Mercs at least have some RES and a healer. And they don't even offer anything worthwhile. They don't stack great debuffs (Necro, Demons), buff themselves or other pets (Bots, Thugs), tank (Bots, Demons), or anything. They're just there. -
Speaking of them, I've been trying to think of a way to implement. Thing is, there's so many that it would be high on visual saturation to try and list all the recipes and powers, especially since the pets in general do mostly the same things with a few exceptions. I'm open to opinions on how to handle it.
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Good:
Having sections, encounters, or powers which do untyped damage that add an element to a fight and require additional tactics. See: Apex TF
Bad:
Having an entire encounter designed around untyped damage which makes your entire character, build, and playstyle invalid. See: Hamidon -
1x LotG global recharge, and then walk away. It needs no +DEF, -end, or +recharge.
Granted it's a flipping sweet power, especially for a Blaster, but it's just fine at base slot. -
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I'm not sure what makes you think "many" powers ignore Spiritual's buff. Truth is very few do. Really it's just incarnate powers and a couple select powers (Domination, Mind Link). In fact I would go on to say Spiritual has the best secondary bonus of any of the Alphas: buffing healing. This is super amazing for things like dark sets and regen characters.
I have incarnate Alpha on around 8 characters. And of all of those, I have Spiritual on all but two. Yes, Judgement and Lore don't get reduced recharges, but I didn't take Alpha for those powers.
When looking at Alpha, consider what bonus would most benefit your character. Try not to look at individual powers (Judgement), but the character as a whole. I took Spiritual on my Masterminds to get their buffs and debuffs up more (it also buffs healing). It's great on click heavy sets like Dark Miasma and Traps. It's great on my Blaster who has a ton of clicks that are up more often now (BU, Aim, and AoEs) as well as giving her a more solid attack chain. Her PFF comes up more, her nuke is around more -- it feels much more useful than a simple damage bonus. I also have Spiritual on a Brute, which gives her more HP from Dull Pain (and makes it perma), as well as getting her AoEs up more. That's more useful than a damage bonus amidst saturated fury and BU.
I have two characters who can't really make any use of Spiritual though. My widow has a flawless attack chain and perma ML. There's no need for more recharge. And my Dominator has permadom and permahasten. I opted for Cardiac on her, letting me spam high end AoEs more, run Maneuvers with no end reduc slotted in it, and it even gives me bonus range. Those perks are much better for her, in my opinion, than bonus damage. Even if her Judgement attack is less than it could be. Because the range and end reduction make her much more powerful overall.
Consider also how often the bonuses you're getting will apply. If you're taking Musculature just so your Lore pets are better -- how often do you actually use them? Would you be better off getting a recharge bonus on most of your powers, or a damage bonus on your pets?
There are other factors as well; even with ignoring ED the effects of recharge are less the more you have. And damage bonuses may not add as much damage as you think they will after enhancements and other damage bonuses. Plus, if you're near a damage cap, damage bonuses won't do anything. You may also want to consider secondary effects like healing in Spiritual or range/RES in Cardiac.
Having said all that, I have Musculature on my main character, the night widow. I don't at all regret it. Her Void attack and Warworks pets are insanely powerful, and I enjoy the damage she does on her own. If you have the ability to do it, I'd say it's worthwhile. But consider that you may get more use out of other things. My widow would not benefit at all from recharge, endurance reduction, or accuracy. If that's true or nearly true of your character, Musculature may well be the way to go.
* You may notice I didn't mention Nerve anywhere. It's because Nerve sucks. -
If it's really their intention to have us swing around gigantic swords that don't do lethal damage then I'll concede it's not a sword set. But as I said it's still just another melee weapon set.
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Quote:Is this an actual argument? It's not a sword set even though 2/3 of the known models are swords? I'm guessing dual blades is also not a sword set since one of the models is technically a sai which isn't a sword, and dual pistols isn't a pistol set since uzis aren't pistols. But even if you want to argue that it's not a sword set, it's still "yet another melee weapon set." And as I pointed out, we already have 6 of those.First of all, this 'Titan Weapon' set isn't a 'sword set', it's a weapon set that could include smashy type attacks or bulky swords too. As for uniqueness in damage type, AFAIK, no set currently does both smashing and lethal damage. It's either or, not both, except for specific powers like Grenades and trip mines so that could be something new. Anyway, so why say 'four sword sets' when it's still only 3?
And smash and lethal damage are more synonymous than any other forms of damage in the game. They're almost equally resisted. With a few exceptions, they may as well be the same damage type. And I said earlier I wish they would just expand these ideas and models to existing sets and work on something better. If they really thought doing both smash and lethal in one set is worth that much they could implement it into battle axe and/or war mace, both of which would be well-suited for it. They could use some attention anyway.
Also, of all things, Fire Melee does both smash and lethal. -
This is coming from someone who used to collect actual real life swords and still owns a few (after a few moves and having to drop stuff), whose favorite RPG is FFVII, whose first character in CoH used a broadsword: I still think having another sword set is excessive and I'd rather they spent their time on something else. Though as I said, it's not as if I won't give it a try.
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Quote:If I included all the S/L melee sets that would add at least three more. There are a TON of them. Weapon sets alone take up most of those, but still just getting more sets that do basically the same thing.When you said smashing/lethal I assumed you referring to damage types. Gravity would plainly be smashing damage though. I didn't realize you meant weapon sets.
I'm all for creativity. I just think many creative options will lead back to smashing/lethal/energy damage as they have with many sets already (sonic and kinetics for example).
Not that I'm not going to play the thing to at least try it out, I would just rather they did more interesting things than "Hey, you know what we need? A fourth sword set." -
Quote:Our dev team is pretty creative. They're pretty good at making things unique and interesting. Shield, DB, DP, Demon Summoning, and more modern sets have all had interesting gimmicks to them that make them more than just the base set. If they put their effort toward a Radiation or Plant set I have no doubt it would be more creative than what you're saying they would be. What I'm saying is I think they should put their efforts toward something other than an area we already have a thousand options in.Radiation and Sonic easily done with by using Energy Melee, unless it's just about the secondary effects.
Gravity Melee? What exactly would that be? Like Gravity Control, only melee range?
Illusion Melee? Kinetic Melee movements with Illusion style secondary effects?
Plant...so a mostly Lethal set with a toxic DoT ala Spines? Why not roll Spines and call it plant melee?
Psi Melee okay, there's no PSI Damage set, can't say anything on this one.
Now I'm not saying I wouldn't want any of these. The game mechanics of the sets could be interresting, and even more so if they have awesome animations to go along with them.
Energy Damage...Energy melee, Kinetic Melee, Electrical Melee...that's 3 sets with Energy damage, so adding another wouldn't really be adding anything new to the damage types, over more Smashing/Lethal. And out of those three Energy damage sets, only EM is not given to one Melee AT (Scrappers) while the other two are on all melee ATs.
How many options does a player have if they want to use a smash/lethal modern weapon? Three ranged, six melee (soon to be seven), and three extras in Masterminds. Of all those, three (four soon) are just swords. But what options does a player have if they want do control radiation, plants, or gravity? Basically 1-2 options max, across all ATs and options, not even limiting it to subsets like "melee only." Just Scrappers alone have more options for swords than you can find for something like illusion across every AT.
The same issues plague concepts like Earth or Psi. They're good ideas that don't stretch to a wide variety of ATs or powersets. If you want Earth you pretty much have Doms, Tanks, and Brutes. You can put Earth on Controllers, but can't pair it with anything. And as there's no Earth Blast, Earth Minions, or Earth Support, your options are highly limited. Psi doesn't show up at all in melee classes. So I feel it's strange to repeatedly expand on something that's already well-represented while not fleshing out things that could use work.
And I don't doubt the devs have the creativity to come up with even more options than that, giving us something more unique that isn't just a melee version of an already exiting concept. During one of the votes one of the options was electric hammer, which would've at least been more interesting than another sword set. And they've put out things like Kin Melee. They could come up with something completely unique like, say, a melee set where you attack using a swarm of insects.
And as long as we're at "settle for X and pretend it's Y," why not just add new models and use Broadsword or Katana instead of making a new big sword set? And then put effort toward something that really needs more options, like Manipulation and Assault sets. -
Radiation, Sonic, Gravity, Illusion, Plant... I recall they even mentioned a Psi Melee at one point. They could do something with toxic as well. Pretty much anything would be more interesting than YAMWS (yet another melee weapon set).
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Whew! For a while there I was worried we wouldn't get more smash/lethal melee sets. We don't have enough of those yet.
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The "cool stuff" better include some free costume parts we don't have to unlock.
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Quote:As long as they cost 35 empyrian merits each and can only be used by level 50s.I believe(And someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the new faces you found have the new face tech, and it's considered a "preview" for those who purchase the Steampunk pack, and later on(Either I20.5 or I21) will have the new face tech applied to the older faces/we'll be given new faces utilizing that tech.