Dirges
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Posts
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Quote:Why do people make ill controllers when so little of the set benefits from containment.Originally Posted by Airhammer
I dont know why so many people want Illusion for Dominators when very little in the set would actually benefit from Domination. -
Quote:Actually end recovery would make as much as healing, you could say it was progressing their endurance to a future or previous level. Or that their recovery increases as well when they are sped up.Originally Posted by BrandX
+END or +REC is actually something I hope the set doesn't get. Speed up time to increase recovery? Shouldn't that be an exhausting thing to do? And I say this as someone who wants this set.
PBAOE Heal, agreed.
Won't happen, most buff sets only buffed type defense at the start and the devs changed them so that they buffed everyone fairly, and I don't see them changing that now.Quote:PBAOE buff...I'm thinkign something along the lines of Force Field's Dispersion Bubble (possibly with 5ft less radius) or the stealth powers of Cold Dom, Dark Miasma, or Storm. The set should have +Defense as part of it, and it should be something that works for the user.
+Defense is just one of the few ways to actually make one feel like one is dodging things that are being effected by temporal manipulation.
In fact, I hope it gives better than Cold Dom, Dark Miasma, and Storm stealth shield defense, but only gives positional defense. -
Quote:Ice dom has a couple of control effects, it does knockdown, avoid, and slow. Yeah not the control FF has, but enough to help survivability.Originally Posted by Leo_G
Still nowhere near as awesome as Hurricane
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of storm now that it's my 1st lvl 50 support character.
If all FF had were KB, you might have a point. Don't think anyone said KB/repel are directly competitive with debuffs. As for the 'science fiction' that they are competitive control, of course it is!
But then I wouldn't expect a novice to really know how to use KB properly to greater effect than most controls...you're not a novice, are you?
Lining up the sets, yeah I would admit Ice Domination is 'better' than FF if only because one is more well rounded. But it's not because KB is somehow inferior. Heck, Ice dom doesn't even *have* control effects. It's a better passive set for back-burner support. FF and Storm, IMO, are the more aggressive in that, if their control is leveraged, they can fill in for support and control. Dark Miasma, Traps and Trick Arrow is right there along with them but TA has no buffs... -
Quote:Neither does stomping the ground and causing a mini earthquake that knocks people up into the air. If you are going to use that line of argument then everything you are posting is invalid. This is a game, and does not exist in real world physics, only what the devs decide to do. They can use what ever reasoning they decide to, including restricting some things to make sense in a real world perspective, or making sets that have no real world aspects at all. If you want to make up the rules go and make your own game.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
No. Psionic attacks don't have any effect because they don't exist.
In the end none of our opinions matter. We disagree on how things should work but it is not or choice to make either. The devs will do what the want, if we the consumer do not like their choices, then we can spend our money elsewhere. -
You do know fire does work in water, right? Psionic attacks can have physical effects like throwing people around, so they are not just a mental attack. DP true they don't reload near enough, but at least they do reload once in a while. Also your invoking the rule of cool doesn't apply. The only example close Fire is the only real cool set mentioned, the other two are just average, with SS being cooler.
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/1...set-fire-water
Also I find foot stomp and hurl to be ground restricted as fun and cool, and that it does not need to go. -
Quote:I know the devs don't balance around the ground restriction, it is based around thematic reasons or other short cuts. That doesn't change my thoughts that powers with penalties should also have extra benefits. Which would also take less resources to do then to make alternate animations for attacking in air. That being said, it would be hard to use foot stomp as an example since it already breaks the mold for aoe melee attacks.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Castle said that 'ground only' wasn't a balance point
The damage, recharge etc of Foot Stomp isn't being calculated around the fact that it is ground only according to him. The reason it was made ground-only is purely an aesthetics issue.
He didn't even object to some powers having the ground-only restriction removed at the time I spoke with him about it. He made it clear it was simply a matter of having to involve the animation guys. That and the fact he was on his way out.
So, the devs don't(didn't) have balance concerns with making such a change, it's a question of animation resources.
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I have no problem with powers that make sense to be grounded, foot stomp is a perfect example of one. Whirling hands is not, as others have said it is a spin not an attack coming up out of the ground. Besides if you really want foot stomp balanced to whirling hands, I think there a large outcry from the players.
Now that doesn't mean I don't think the powers should be balanced with these limitations in mind. Or that some powers have limitations they shouldn't. Glacier is one, you freeze everything around you solid, unless you fly. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
They have a built in "run to the mish objective and complete it" power in every secondary. They also have AS to take out any bosses they want, and placate to eliminate the next biggest threat faster. On a team, they deal only (for the most part) single target damage, and don't kill multiple things as fast as scrappers, brutes, veats, or MMs as you gave as examples.Quote:Originally Posted by _Zep_
Stealth + AS = meanest mob in each group down before the fight starts.
Uber stealth ( zero end cost, only one power no IO needed) allows for sneaking to the end easyer.
Stealthing to target is not the best way to solo IMHO, you miss out on most of the xp in a mission. I have always found killing large groups with less health better soloing. Faster kills, more reward rolls, and less risk. Besides I have a brute that can stealth missions better, yeah it requires superspeed, but their cloak doesn't suppress.
Also you can't kill bosses in one hit. AS does about 734 damage, with about 1098 with build up at 50, lieuts have 857 health and bosses 2570. A stalker needs build up just to kill a lieut, and AS doesn't take the boss below half health and neither of you mentioned using BU. No need to exaggerate things, especially since if the mentioned bonuses are so good solo, they would also be great on a group. -
Quote:I don't see how stalkers are designed to go solo any more then scrappers, brutes, veats, or MMs. Really with less health they are worst soloers. Could you elaborate.Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Nope.
I didn't read it.
Stalkers are, by design, built to go solo--'anti-team'. They're not actually detrimental to the team, but they still get a bad rap.
*shrug* It's usually a scrapper or brute that runs off alone and spawns unwanted ambushes and gets themselves--or the the whole team--killed. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
Typically, any stalker. I only see them make it onto teams when bodies are needed to start a 7-8 player tf.
So how is that anti-team behavior? Do they just run for the glowie and leave the team to fight with out them, or do they AS and then run until hidden turns back on? People over looking an AT is not anti-team behavior, and I have grouped with several stalkers that were better teammates then a lot of scrappers/brutes.
People do not like knockback because of how many people use them. If most people used knockback to knock people into walls/corners/floors there would be a lot less hate for it.Quote:Originally Posted by Stone DaemonIsn't it curious that whenever one of these threads pop up, it always comes down to knockback? Oh, and phasing enemy powers take the runner up prize.
As for phase it can be hard to tell what is phased, if only there was a bright neon sign saying phased or your attack being redirected if it lands on a phased target. Even more so, a way to break the phase when the team wants.
To me the most anti-team behavior are control freaks (not con/doms) on teams. I don't mind following a strategy, but when people have to try and tell a player every single thing to do, where to stand, and the order they activate powers, I end up leaving the group. -
Quote:Not true, mercs are almost always attacking, their first attack is almost rechaged by the time it finishes animating, so there is no struggle to have attacks ready. Now on the long timer controls, even with full slotting they were still to random to be relyed on, and were usually wasted, just more often.
Mercs also got hit pretty hard when recharge enhancements were disabled for pets. The powers that they do have with AOE or control effects are all on long timers. This might not have been as serious before, but it means that now Mercs will struggle to have an attack ready all the time. And as with any other pets, they have a nasty habit of firing "big ticket" powers at exactly the wrong target. They'll Flashbang the lone Conscript that just pushed them, and then be unable to use it on the Rikti Mesmerist that's trying to scramble your brain
Not true, only the special ops have melee attacks with rifle butt, the rest had their melee attacks removed including the medic. It is bad ai that sends them into melee.Quote:And all of the mercs have melee attacks, which they *will* use if nothing else is ready. -
Quote:I have slotted mine and it is mediocre. It has too many roles and you can't slot it for every thing. Also whose bright idea was it to make a heal an aggro power, if you need a heal, do you really want to make everything around you attack you.Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
The new energy drain is amazing and I highly recommend you slot it up before giving up on it.
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Quote:Hopefully soon, especially since hide suppresses offensive toggles.Originally Posted by DMystic
Can Stalkers get Ice Armor/Melee in return?
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Quote:Empathy has be proliferated, it was done before release, since it is not a defender only set. The devs felt empathy was fit for controllers to use, and they let the AT's share it. The same with it's counter pain, the ATs it fit for got it.Originally Posted by DMystic
To: muan
fair points, and while proliferation is the default exceptions have been made for Dev AT concept clashes.
when Pain Domination was made it was in response to the desire for Empathy red side. Empathy wasn't ported because of AT concept clash.
The same thing happened when Shield Defense came out.
Stalkers where excluded because of AT concept clash.
So Ninjitsu is being excluded because of AT concept clash.
whether that's a good enough reason or not is debatable, but it's all we have to go on.
to Jade
Ninjitsu isn't the only power excluded from Proliferation.
Empathy and Ice Armor have also been excluded.
As for Powersets that make AT's unique
while I may not have an example for all of them.....
Blasters > Devices and technically all Manipulation sets.
Dominators > Assault sets
Masterminds > how about all of their Primaries, and Poison
Stalkers > Ninjitsu (obviously)
Tankers > Ice Armor
Controllers > Illusion
All 4 Epic AT's
Defenders are the only Blue Side AT with Dark Blast/Miasma
Corruptors are the only Red Side AT with Blast sets.
Scrappers are the only Blue Side AT with Broadsword
Now while the last 3 have questionable uniqueness the sets mentioned are unique to them for that side.
Of course with Side Switching that is fairly moot but for starting on the specific side it's still the only way to get those sets.
Ice armor has never been excluded, the closest thing is the devs said it interfered too much with brute fury, and that was before the latest change to fury generation. Just because it has not been proliferated yet does not mean it is excluded.
Summon/assault/manipulation/eats sets don't count, since they are unique AT sets. They share powers where fit, but no exact port fits for other ATs. Now if you want to count these then every stalker attack and defense set is unique, since there is not another AT with the exact same sets.
We only have 5 sets that are fit for proliferation that have never been done. Ice/Ice from tankers, nin, ill, and poison, well more if you consider whip and energy rifle from MMs. Every other set has been proliferated in one way or another. I don't see it taking too much longer for these last few to be as well. -
Quote:Originally Posted by DMystic
The Stalker At needs to have it's mechanics fixed to actually be relevant for end game teaming content. Because it's mechanics suffer, the AT can't actually stand out on it's own. This has Ninjitsu standing out more than the Stalker them self. Allow the Stalker to stand out on their own first, then you can port Ninjitsu wherever you want.
Stalker mechanics are not that bad for teaming. They have a high crit chance with controlled crits and a nice debuff. The only problems with teaming are the sets that lost their only aoe for AS. Other then that it tends to be the players fault they do not work as well on teams, with players that think they should just scout missions or should only focus on AS. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Jibikao
In order to save Stalker population... I suggest Ninjitsu stay as Stalker-only set! hehe
If the stalker AT needs one power set to save it over its different game mechanics. Then the AT is lost already. Port nin over and make all stalkers into scrappers. No sense to offer an AT if no one wants to play with the merits of that AT.
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Quote:This I don't agree with, atleast most of it. Confuse is great, use it on a sapper and watch him drain his allies, cast it on a buffer and now your team gets buffs. Now confusing PtoD AV is just really for giggles, I have yet to see any team use that as the mandatory plan. Also attacks in control sets are some what common, about half of the available sets have attacks in them.
Controller: Mind Control or Grav. Confuse is stupid. Stacking it 50 times on a PTOD AV is even stupider. This is not a rational argument against MC, just personal taste. As for Grav, it's just sort of bleh. Attacks in my control set? Wormhole? Seriously? Controllers are supposed to turn enemies into shrubs waiting to be trimmed into topiary, not make them intangible or spread all over the map. -
Quote:Do you play stalkers at all, every set stalkers have is unique to them. They may have the same name, but the sets do not play exactly like a scrapper version.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'm in agreement with this.
Personally, I think EVERY AT should get one powerset that is unique to it, and it alone.
It's not going to happen, because very few ATs have anything unique to them anymore, but that would be my preference.
Illusion Control, Ice Armor and Melee, Poison, and Ninjitsu are the only powersets I can think of that are completely unique to one AT. I think there should be more than that, but what's done is done.
I would call it herbalist for defenders, it could be the same set, but gets rid of the old poison is for villains only attitude the devs had.Quote:Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
If you want to get picky, there's all the EAT sets and any Mastermind primary.
But... what sense does it make that the only people who can use illusions are controllers? Why is it that only tanks can defend themselves with ice? Why can't I make a poison corruptor or defender? It just doesn't make sense.
I would like a nin scrapper, and it would be an easy port. Change hide to the basic cloak power scrapers can get. Then change caltrops to marble patch, a small knock down patch similar to ice patch without the slow. but targetable like caltrops. -
Quote:One problem is they will have to rewrite how buffs work. Buffs only keep track of the caster until a player zones. So even if you both zone at the same time the system would not know who to take the end from for the auto recast. Also if you quite team and join back before expiration, wouldn't you be a new team mate as well effecting how the power works for 4 minutes.Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
I mentioned a few pages back but I still think an easy and elegant (though probably a bit time consuming to program) solution would be to simply have the buffs auto-reapply when their duration is up by taking the End from the caster, if the caster is still on the team and in the same zone. So, it doesn't reapply when they're out of zone, out of team, or dead. This addresses a number of problems with other implementations.
1) Doesn't allow people to keep non-team members buffed for longer than they can now. There would no worry about these PLed buffers just zone sitting in RWZ or Cim, making teams invincible. It also doesn't mean people will dump the buffers after they get buffed.
2) Doesn't require a PBAOE that would make the sets even more annoying, regardless of buff duration
3) Keeps the power balanced in the End per Duration category. In fact, it doesn't change this dynamic at all.
I also think this brings a number of other benefits to the table as well, besides just reducing "tedium". What you're looking at is:
1) Slower and less experienced players would be more free to use their blast, control and other powers. You'd probably get more mileage out of those FF Defenders that either don't have the twitch reflexes and multi-tasking capabilities to focus on the battle and everyone's shields and you might see more effective use of FF's knockback and repel powers.
2) It'd be a lot more enjoyable for those who find it tedious. And, as evidenced by this thread, there is a portion of people who do find it tedious. The people who don't mind the tedium would just have a little more time freed up to blast without the change making these powers weaker or less convenient (as I'd fear the change to PBAOEs or upping the duration would do)
Edit: Also, in this proposed change, I'd propose the ability for the caster and the recipient to set the power to "Do not renew".
This is also a major problem for any longer duration idea. The way the system works is you can buff at a mission entrance, then enter and rebuff and stack your own buffs. Longer durations make this even more over powered. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Mr_Body
I like how the shields sets play, as is, currently. Somedays I feel like micro-managing, some days I dont. When I don't, I just play the other buff sets that dont have single target buffs.
And remember the cottage rule.
The cottage rule doesn't apply to the suggested changes. Defense buffs would remain defense buffs, resistance remain resistance. The cottage rule is a change to the core use of the power. Energize is the perfect example. It went from just a -end cost power, to a -end cost, a heal, and a +regen power. -
Quote:I like this idea, it sounds like a fair middle ground.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I think Speed Boost should have its duration halved and when you cast it at someone, pop up a dialog box that asks "Are you sure you want to do this? They're going to go really fast!" Because clearly, there is no threshold where buffing is tedious, and if you think it sucks, why play a buffer?
P.S. I don't want the Mastermind upgrades. I think Sonic, Force Field, and Cold shields should renew themselves if someone you placed them on enters the radius of your bubble or fog. You would only have to recast the shield completely if they spent 4 minutes outside your aura. Thermal and Kinetics would receive the same treatment for Warmth and Transfusion. That way you can't just leave the buffer at the door. This bonus would only apply to always-up shield powers, and not "rolling buff" powers like Fortitude or Forge. Specifically:
- Force Field shields
- Cold shields
- Sonic shields
- Speed Boost
- Thermal shields
Now I do see people calling buffing tedious, that is not quite right. This is a MMO with many different players, and tedious for one will be fun for another. I myself do not find buffing tedious, now I wouldn't mind the quoted idea, but I would not like my shields to be changed like MM buffs were. There is no telling what else would be changed to balance them, and I do not like the idea of losing control on how and when I use the buff. -
Quote:This is what I don't agree with. Controllers already have secondaries as control heavy as dark, they just do not come with a pet. Dark has 6 control powers, HT, TP, FS, PG, BH, and it's pet DS. Storm has 7 control powers with gale, SS, FR, Hurr, TC, Tor, and lightning storm, though most are based around knockback. Trick arrow is also control base with 6, or 7 if compare flash arrow to smoke.
Honestly the biggest stumbling block is going to be Dark Miasma for controllers since it already feels very much like a control set, it may be an issue to port it over. My opinion is to just do it. Sets like Gravity will just love it. Fire/Darks will be the "NEW" tanks of the decade. -
Quote:Merc get a lot of hate on the MM boards, and ninjas get extra points for high single target damage and a good level 18 power. Overall I prefer merc to ninja, but that is me.Originally Posted by Dispari
I thought ninjas were considered the worst? At least mercs can attack from range.
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Quote:This thread isn't about anything sucking, it is about the worst. Mercs is considered the worst MM set, but it is still a strong set.Originally Posted by DoctorWhat
I wouldn't say it SUCKS, but Dual Pistols can use couple minor buffs and tweaks, IMO.
Devices I rather like, it has some useful powers and offers Stealth with Cloaking Device and Smoke Grenade. Can use some improvments though.
Energy Aura should be, in my opinion, adapted to have positional rather than typed defenses.
But I haven't seen anything that I can say outright SUCKS.
They also won't make EA positional. The devs use positional for dodging, and type for absorbing, and EA absorbs damage like ice does. The only reason ff, cold, and and such powers is so that the stack with player abilities instead of buffing some and not helping others. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Briarpatch
Endurance management doesn't matter? Huh.Though I will point out the heal is harder to saturate, since EA has the worst aggro management and stealth will keep it from aggroing by LOS. To get the most out that there are sacrifices that have to be made. It also sucks that is the only taunt in EA as well. So you get a choice use it for end, health, or taunt. I would of rather it got the energize treatment over the change to energy drain.Quote:Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Or a heal that, saturated (as any Brute should be), can restore over half of your health?
I find SR has better defense to start with, and is easier to soft cap. It has better resists, less holes in it's defense, a better taunt aura, and +recharge/slow resists. Yes it is missing a mediocre heal, +end, and it is worth taking the whole set, but I think having a set that it is worth taking every power is a good thing.