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Wow, 57 views and no responses.
I expected at least 1 person to tell me I made a mistake somewhere. -
Quote:To the OP: willpower has some crazy regen in there, if you've got a few people in arm's reach.
To Je_saist: I'm totally unconvinced that you need stamina on a willpower tank. If I can make a Dark Armor tank work without having Stamina and Quick Recovery, I'm sure you can manage the Willpower toggles.
It will depend on the tanker's secondary, and how much recharge they are sporting.
For something like Super Strength with high recharge, Hasten and Rage I would most certainly take QR & STA.
On a low recharge build, and a less end heavy melee attack powerset, you can go with just QR. -
Quote:You know I've already responded to this thread but after reading this again I need to inform you that you are clearly out of your mind.Yes. It can be slotted with all sorts of Procs from Regen Tissue to Numina's to Performance Shifter
More Endo/Health Regen is Far better then Gloom, Darkest Night, or useless pet.
While the option for some kind of recovery method in PPPs would be nice, you obviously haven't the vaguest inkling of just how good Gloom & Darkest Night are.
I think it's also totally lost on you that it's exceptionally convinient to be able to grab a single target ranged attack followed directly by a 16 target TAoE without any other pre-requisites.
Now compare that to Blaze/Pyre Mastery.
Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it's not hugely valuable.
I'm sure that will be lost on you as well though. -
Quote:VEATs were built around stacked Leadership being incredibly awesome.
But combat jumping costs essentially no Endurance for some defense, and you can plop handy IOs in it. So it's nice. Hover should be just as cheap, imo, especially considering it's so frelling SLOW.
In considering Hover, while I do find it ponderously slow, I believe the end cost is there primarily to balance the fact that you can negate incoming melee attacks - which is a fantastically strong ability. -
Quote:Masterminds are suppose to be the aggro magnets of CoV not brutes.Quote:Well I think they were made to take the Alpha attack and be the Meat Shields, but I do agree that taunting does make aggro management easier.Quote:Yup, That was the devs initial design plan. But as with most plans, it fell completely apart as soon as the players got hold of it.
I think this quote from the MM sub-forum sums it up nicely.
Quote:Originally Posted by TelperionAfter a run with a MM, logging in a brute feels like i've reeled in a bunch of gangling, hard-to-coordinate limbs into a tight bundle of efficient destruction. -
Quote:Aside from interrupting my stream of death dealing to keep myself alive, my biggest gripe on my DM/Regen Scrapper were situations where lag would prevent recon or DP from going off and see me faceplanting as a result.The thing I like about Regen is the fact that skill and timing actually have an effect on your survival. If I'm on my game I can do some crazy stuff, if my timing is a little off I tend to faceplant a lot.
I can live with it when I just wasn't fast enough, or I made a mistake - but on the ITF you will face lag and I found repeated deaths from lag to be unbearable.
YMMV. -
Quote:I would personally drop Shadow Punch for Gloom in an instant.This has me looking at Gloom. If I slot Gloom up like one of my melee attacks, when the time comes to make a single-target pattern, should I let one of my extant attacks become malnourished? Smite or Shadow Punch are both in the build; could I eschew one of them in favour of Gloom, and run, say, Gloom -> Shadow Punch -> MGrasp -> Shadow Punch -> Siphon Life -> Shadow Punch? Or is it better to have Smite? Or what, exactly?
Even without the recharge to run the top chain, I'd still prefer to have Gloom as well as Dark Obliteration.
I'm not sure if you took all three, but if you have DC, Consume and Stamina you might also want to try to work Darkest Night into the build - I use it on my SS/WP and feel it can be invaluable at times.. -
Quote:Sorry, I wasn't referring to you specifically (I've never grouped with you of to my knowledgeAs I mentioned before, I am an aggroholic, which I believe to be one step better than what you've described here. I don't go out of my way to steal aggro from brutes/scraps/blasters that can handle themselves, but I am always looking for the next big group of nasty that can be hitting me.
).
I don't have a problem with what you describe, it's basically the Tanker's primary function - although in a co-op environment you might want to work out with any Brutes how they play.
In general, allowing the Brute to build fury fast is better for the team as a whole (because stuff is dying faster).
At most, it will usually mean allowing the Brute to take a few alphas here and there - in practicality most Brutes will be on a headlong charge towards the next spawn with or without the Tankers permission. -
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Quote:7 tfs?
I'm talking about The Atlas Medallion(+5 Max End) not Taskforce Commander(+5% Max Health). Marshall(also +5 Max End) requires completing the 'End game' LRSF which fails more often than succeeds, and can only be done 45+ instead of the mid-level Croatoan Geas of the Kind Ones.
Yes, Geas of the Kinds ones is rough, but still easier to get than Force of Nature(can't flashback to Mayhem missions). The badges required have no guarantee of spawning in Mayhems(Arsons for Firebug are particularly bad), while you can always find the croatoan mobs you need.
The 'easy to get' hero accolades are the hardest to get redside, and the 'hard to get' blueside are easier redside. It just so happens that makes the +End and recovery ones appear on the hard end of Redside, and very frustrating with little to no recovery help in the Patron Pools.
You don't need to finish the entire LRSF.
You only need to complete the 3rd mission - Defeat Future Freedom Phalanx.
There's only 4 AVs, and it's really not that hard.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Lord_Recluse_Strike_Force
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Annihilator_Badge
I agree on Force of Nature, it's a huge annoying grind-fest that I want nothing to do with. -
Quote:You mean Fury.Hmmm... I wonder just how much Rage a Brute can keep generated with a good Tanker holding most, if not all, of the aggro.
No, I'm serious, I'm really wondering this. I've never played in a group with a Tanker when playing any of my Brutes...
I can generate the typical 85%~90% Fury bar on any team where there is a Tanker.
If you don't want to wait for your attacks to generate Fury, just be faster at taking the alpha.
Occasionally you'll get some Tanker who is erroneously convinced the most important thing in the world is to have all of the aggro all of the time and will go into Taunt-bot overdrive in an attempt to literally try to steal aggro from you.
At that point I usually just tell them that my Brute is built to survive any aggro he generates and that they should focus on protecting the squishier members of the team instead of wasting time trying to taunt stuff off of me. -
Quote:Invuln is not one of the secondaries that I think would be often refused by players who for whatever reason don't want to allow some of the squishier secondaries to attempt a full frontal assault on the Freedom Phalanx.My semi-concept build, semi-cheap IOed SS/invul brute regulary functions as a main tank on the LRSF (without pulling in the final 2 missions
).
In truth, the full frontal assault method is more about how many corrs you have on your team and how good your team is overall than it is about the actual secondary - still some secondaries are sturdier or more resilient than others.
Quote:The only 'expense necessary' is a balanced teams that knows what they are doing imo.
With regards to expense, I'm not talking about normal group play, at a normal pace with a balanced team - I'm talking about the extreme top end of the game. -
I'm looking for a critique of this build, with the following notes:
- I'm aware of the cost, it's not an issue.
- I will not be adding PvP IOs.
- I wanted to Softcap SM/L, but it didn't work out.
- I'm considering slotting Fire Cages for damage instead of the SM/L defense I get from Enfeebled Operation, but I want to keep SM/L above 40%.
- Looking for opinions on dropping Fire Breath for Combustion (while I'd prefer a PBAoE for this type of build, Fire Breath is a long enough animation as it is.)
Thanks.
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Quote:I agree for the most part.My thing about Brute vs Tanker survivability is that while a Tanker will pretty much always be tougher, being that tough isn't necessary.
A Brute, with IOs and/or team support, can be tough enough to take the punishment of anything that is realistically going to be thrown at them.
In any situation where you've got anything that does enough damage to warrant the toughness of a Tanker, you've generally got enough team support to enable a Brute to take the punishment and do far more damage in the process.
Yes, a Tanker, (depending on Primary, skill, slotting, etc etc), could tank them without support. That's not really meaningful unless your team is 7 Blasters and the Tanker.
At the same time, many Brute Secondaries are often refused entry onto things like the LRSF due to their (perceived or actual) lower survivability levels. (I don't agree with it, but that's what happens)
So I could actually see people looking to grab a Tanker for that particular TF - or even low level grouping in general which is where many Brutes tend to lack the ability to tank for teams due to no IOs or not having all the necessary power choices yet.
Quote:I believe the devs mentioned Tankers might get a look if they turn out to be too overshadowed by the "hybrid", but I don't see anything more than a minor tweak to the Inherent. -
Quote:Well no, Willpower on just SOs will do very well for most of the game's content.So the Invulnerability build is less expensive? I'm more looking for something that I can tank with 1-50 (and beyond), rather than once I've got a 1bil IO set going. If it's the latter I'll quit before I ever get to that point because I simply won't be enjoying myself.
I was referring to tanking the ITF, which will require a bit more investment on a Willpower brute - unless your team goes at a very safe and slow pace, with lots of support (buffs/debuffs).
An Invuln build, at least the way I would build it, could be every bit as expensive as a Willpower build.
Quote:Is Tough and Weave going to be necessary or does Invulnerability hold its own?
You should probably pick up tough and weave on most Brutes that you ever plan to "Tank" with. Both Invuln and Willpower love Tough and Weave.
Quote:In reference to Tough and Weave, nobody mentioned WP. It doesn't need either of them? Or maybe it just doesn't benefit as much from them.
At some point, you'll need to just take the plunge and pick one.
Invuln: High defenses and very high SM/L resistances, with a self heal that acts as a perma-possible +HP bonus and a fantastic taunt aura.
Willpower: Solid resistances, some typed defenses to build off of with IOs, and "through the roof" regeneration and end recovery with a very solid +HP auto power.
I think he said it's nice because SR Scrappers don't get a taunt aura. -
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Brutes will continue to charge headfirst into spawns, holding aggro while they kill stuff.
Tankers will continue to herd large groups while their group annihilates them.
People who want to play ultra survivable aggro management characters, especially on a budget, will continue to turn to the Tanker AT to provide that.
People who want to have some aggro management while dealing heaps of damage will continue to turn to the Brute AT. -
I think for what you're looking for, Claws/Invuln will be a very good choice.
SR does have it's benefits, and reaching softcap to all positions will see you highly survivable.
However, if I were to recommend someone a set for "tanking" purpose I would recommend Invuln over SR due to layered defenses.
Even on my softcapped SD brutes, softcapped to all positions with added Hit Points and Resistances above what SR has - eventually they get hard enough to make pretty solid dents.
Now, I do in fact "tank" on those Brutes, and you could do the same on a softcapped SR - but an Invuln Brute will on the whole be alot sturdier for most of the game's content.
As a note, you can tank on a Willpower brute as well and I would put my Willpower Brute against an Invuln brute and say that most advantages or disadvantages for each will be roughly equalized for the vast majority of content - with darkest night (and the endurance to run it) even tanking the ITF is no issue. It is however, a very expensive build. -
Quote:I never take Stam on Elec Armor, at least after I get Power Sink and respec. You could easily skip Dark Consumption on that combo as well. You have a decent heal with Energize, I don't consider Siphon Life a heal as it isn't even remotely reliable in that regard.
I actually agree with you, but instead of thinking it would be a fun combo that has dual heal and dual end recoveries for synergy it comes across as redundant IMO.
If you don't need Siphon Life's heal, nor Dark Consumption's Recovery then Dark Melee as a set will see you limiting yourself to ST damage, and while Lightning Field is AoE I always believe in adding more AoE than a short radius aura will be able to provide.
The OP should of course play what they think will be fun, but if I were to make a powerset recommendation I'd much prefer a primary set that had more AoE damage or more Softcontrol, or both.
Some shining examples would be Super Strength, Stone Melee and War Mace.
All three will increase your survivability through KD or Stuns as well as add decent to excellent AoE in various amounts. -
Quote:I had been worried that I made the wrong choice leveling a Scrapper instead of a Brute because the damage cap on a Brute sounded so much higher, but now I'm happy with my choice. Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.
The playstyles are also somewhat different.
Fury means you will never be at your full potential, all of the time. The same goes for the Brute's massive damage cap, something that you will never see happen outside of a team.
Brutes also act as aggro units, whether they want to or not. Some scrapper secondaries will do this as well, but Brutes have a taunt component in all of their attacks - and every Brute secondary except for EA has a Taunt Aura of some kind.
Scrappers are generally unfettered in combat, they can move around the battle like skirmishers without really worrying too much or giving consideration to support ATs (some Brutes play that way, but I don't - because RP or chest thumping aside, it's poor teamwork)
Scrappers have their damage "always on". They hop into combat, and hit at full force, all the time, with random criticals granting a damage boost (as well as burst damage which can be useful).
If you're lookng to do damage, you could flip a coin and choose either one and not have made a mistake. -
Quote:Any Brute I have at L35+ needs to be able to deal with at least 0x6 enemies.So what is (in general) the fastest difficulty setting for brutes? The setting where there's enough enemies to really spike your Fury bar, but not so many that you're wasting a ton of time cleaning up extra enemies? I suspect that, in general, it's going to be around x3-4, but that may vary a lot depending on the level you run at (-1 to +4), and your power sets.
If not, it usually gets scrapped. -
Quote:A couple of suggestions.with this it goes from 1.20 end consumption to .96 on my build. More hp too. Does this one seem the best way to go if anyone has an opinion on it?
oh yeah for strength of will, just putting that unique steadfast in there is enough, right? I mean the power will still work well when activated without any other enhancements?
1) As a brute, don't even give damage bonuses a second thought. Due to Fury, minor damage bonuses are largely irrelevant.
2) Post the build. It's a lot easier to give build advise if you post the data chunk or data link in particular. -
Quote:I'm away from my home PC so I can't load your build up in Mids.Been away from CoH awhile and just recently resubbed. Unfortunately though I had lost all my old Mids builds etc and have a mid-level Brute I was hoping to pick back up again. Since I didn't see a thread with some sample builds on the first few pages of the board I decided to try and make my own. Not expecting it to be anything amazing but any help on massaging this into a solid build would be awesome. Thanks.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Catriona: Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13)
Level 2: Haymaker -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 4: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), RctvArm-ResDam(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 6: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 10: Static Shield -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(17)
Level 16: Grounded -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(43)
Level 18: Health -- H'zdH-Heal(A), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx(19), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(25), Mrcl-Heal(40)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(23), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(23), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(25), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(31), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 24: Lightning Reflexes -- Flight-I(A)
Level 26: Lightning Field -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 28: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(29), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Rchg(43)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), FrcFbk-Rechg%(37)
Level 35: Power Sink -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(36), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 44: Mu Lightning -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Static Discharge -- P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 6: Ninja Run
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But at a glance, here are some comments:
- Crushing Impact is not worth 6 slotting for Super Strength builds (or most builds). Drop the Acc/Dam for something else - Alternatively build for Typed Defense with Kinetic Combats if you can afford it, Smashing Haymakers if you can't.
- Get rid of Hover - you can't use footstomp with it, and grounded doesn't work in the air. You already have combat jumping, and this is just eating up a valuable power pick (and pool), even as a set mule.
- SERIOUSLY reconsider fly as travel power, both SS and SJ are better for this, and pretty much any melee build. Definitely don't need to 3 slot it *or any* travel power with BoTZ - remember you want typed defenses.
- ImpArm-ResPsi in grounded is not doing much - I'd use the slot elsewhere.
- While you have an end recovery tool in Power Sink, you're better off slotting Numi Heal, Numi Heal/Rech, Numi Proc & Miracle Proc in Health.
- Remove the Perf Shfit Acc/Rech as it's useless in STA, slot the perf shifter proc instead.
- Rage doesn't need that much slotting, you can use the slots elsewhere to add more typed defenses. Go for 2 rectified reticicles and 1 or 2 rech rdx IOs. I like GSFC in positional builds, but not so much in Typed Def builds.
- Remove 1 slot from Oblit for an End Rdx IO in Lightning Field
- Footstomp - Sciroc adds positional defense, so either go with oblit for more recharge or frankenslot for performance.
Keep the FF Proc, you'll get good mileage out of it - Can 3 slot weave if you feel tight on slots, the 4th Def/End Rdx/Rech doesn't do very much
- I would recommend E-Fences and Ball Lightning or Mu Lightning and Ball Lightning - or alternatively Soul Mastery for Gloom and Dark Oblit. I like to 6 slot ranged attacks with 3 piece thunderstrike and 3 piece devastations for typed defense builds. Regardless, get rid of static discharge.
- 5 slot, and even better 6 slot in whatever TAoE you switch to (Ball lightning, Dark Oblit). You absolutely want the 5th Posi piece slotted for the recharge bonus, and the 6th slot for more End Rdx or Rech Rdx.
- You definitely want CJ you really don't need Hover - Highly recommend swapping Hover & Fly for Hasten and Super Speed.
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Quote:I'm not going to say it sucks, but it's most definitely sub-par to other options.Energy aura with io's is a beast. You get to build up a set that starts out consisting mainly of positional defense. How can that suck?
Softcapped defenses are great, until you get hit.
If the OP is looking for a set to "tank" with, they'd be better of with one of the layered defense sets - Invuln, Willpower, Stone.
And since EM is a single target heavy set, I think they'd be better off with DM which will provide greater utility along with solid (to amazing, depending on recharge) ST DPS.
All this is moot if the OP already has the EM/EA at 50 and wants to play it no matter what.
In which case:
- Pick up taunt.
- Grab at least one AoE from PPP (Soul or Mu being the better all around choices)
- Build for typed defenses and begin bidding on Kinetic Combat sets now.
- Be sure to softcap, at the least, SM & L.
Quote:If you have the dough, EA can be made into a titan, but throwing money at EM is baby steps in comparison.
The set needs to be reworked.