Deus_Otiosus
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Posts
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Quote:I would imagine that it's unlikely the devs think Stalkers should out damage Scrappers.Originally Posted by Zem
or if Castle even believes Stalkers *should* outdamage Scrappers. To me that's a given. Less survivable = More damage. Because I can't think of what else we bring more of.
Or they think they already do, because they don't actually play the game.
Quote:Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
And in my estimation, the added DPA from using Placate and/or AS in melee should provide another 5% or so DPS as well.
Please show your calculations to back up this estimation.
On a good team using AS on anything less than a boss will most likely see you corpse blasting. -
Quote:My choice would be Fire Melee.Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
So, looking into the other possibilities, the only other one that looks interesting to me is /electricity, since it has no knock back, and the last power is a teleport power, to save me having to slowly lumber up to my enemies sometimes.
Does good damage out the box, both ST & AoE.
You don't need a lot of recharge to have a decent ST chain.
Has a more forgiving EPS cost than primaries like Stone Melee, SS, etc.
It provides no added mitigation, but Stone Armor Tankers should rarely (if ever) need any.
While electric is a decent choice for AoE, your ST damage will be completely abysmal due to the nature of the set (on the very low end of ST damage), Tanker melee damage scale and Granite's -damage component. -
I played around with it to try some different things.
I personally wouldn't attempt to run Darkest Night on an SS/Invuln, but if you use it sparingly and keep a recovery serum temp power handy you can make it work.
I don't like pets, you might want to add it back in, but I wanted to add Dark Oblit to see what it would look like.
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Quote:A Scrapper can do this as well, and will totally outclass the brute if they do.Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
That's one thing mid's doesn't cover: the use of reds
I have some macros setup to convert inspirations into reds. When I am mobbed up insp drops regularly, showering the reds upon my brutecake of destruction.
This was also true before the Fury change. -
Quote:Unfortunately the decay begins immediately.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I'd also be interested in seeing if the Fury gained with Frenzy decays so quickly as to be useless, or if it can be preserved if activated in combat.
It's like a really weak, really short duration build up that provides you with +50% damage but wont provide that bonus for more than 1 attack, as it decays.
I never use it that way, and save it for times when I really want to throw a little extra rech to get something up a little quicker or I use it if I ever have to play catch up or there aren't enough mobs to provide solid Fury. -
Quote:On teams, in really heavy enemy saturation I can maintain 80% as long as I'm totally surrounded.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
T
Brutes still work fine even with the nerf, though, and it's only about a 13% reduction in DPS, solo. And that's if you assume your Fury has fallen from 90% to 65%. (The so-called "30% reduction in +damage from Fury") I personally have no problem running around 75%.
Grabbing taunt as one of my i19 "freebie" power picks has probably boosted my overall top end of fury by 5% in comparison. -
Quote:You want Tough and Weave.Originally Posted by GreenBone
Hi all. I think I know the answer to this, but before I respec AGAIN, is it worth anything at all on a DM/Invuln Brute to take the Fighting Pool? I took it for a couple reasons: (1) I got another quick attack to build Fury, but with a full attach chain may not need it. (2) Tough adds a good bit of S/L resistance to stack on my /Invuln resistances. But I also took Weave, and noticed when running it, I'm back to END issues again. Plus, all I'm getting is 3.75 more DEF (on a RES character), and Immob protection I already have in one of my secondary power choices.
Invuln is not a "resistance" character, you have layered defenses, resistances and HP.
If you're having end issues with weave, you need to fix the endurance issues - not drop weave. -
Quote:The truth is this:Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Is that how buff was defined in the 2010 EngSoc Newspeak dictionary
It was a buff if you were unskilled at playing brutes, and a nerf if you weren't.
It's generally a buff for low level Brutes who are basically unable to survive the kind of aggro that was required to generate high fury, unless you simply refilled on a full tray of lucks for every mission.
At the top end, it's a nerf.
I don't mind it overall, the normalization of the Fury mechanic works better for more people - even if that means outlier cases like myself are effectively downgraded.
That being said, I think there are cases where certain powers and powersets that simply underperform for Brutes should be looked at (I'd also like slightly higher than Scrapper base defense numbers, but lower than Tankers - but that's a pipe dream).
Claws for example was tweaked when it was ported to Brutes and I wish more of the sets were tailored to work better with the design of the AT.
I also dislike the Unattainable Full Fury/Frenzy Bar "solution", but I'm pretty sure that will remain as is as well. -
This was part of a Brute Fury thread, thought I'd bring it to the right spot.
Quote:Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Stalkers do less damage than Scrappers against a single target. Sometimes. Scrappers have a 1.125 damage scalar for melee attacks. Stalkers, just a 1.00. With a 10% chance to crit (I'm assuming you don't need to ST down minions), the Scrapper has an effective 1.2375 damage scalar. The Stalker, on the other hand, is 1.1 + 0.03 per ally in range. With 4 or less melee allies, the Scrapper comes out better. 5 or more friends within 30 feet, and the Stalker wins out. Of course, the more melee allies you have, the less support that tends to come with it - apart from kins, most buffers like to keep their distance - and then the Stalker's lower hit points becomes more of a liability.
So, the answer to "do Stalkers or Scrappers have better ST damage?", the answer is a resounding "it depends".
I don't think it should require more than half the team (5 out of 7 team mates) in melee range to boost criticals to where the Stalker is out damaging a Scrapper.
What if the first ally in range provided a larger boost than it does now, and subsequent allies in range provided a smaller boost than they do now - ending up with the same maximum boost, but effectively raising the minimum boost? -
Quote:Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Stalkers do less damage than Scrappers against a single target. Sometimes. Scrappers have a 1.125 damage scalar for melee attacks. Stalkers, just a 1.00. With a 10% chance to crit (I'm assuming you don't need to ST down minions), the Scrapper has an effective 1.2375 damage scalar. The Stalker, on the other hand, is 1.1 + 0.03 per ally in range. With 4 or less melee allies, the Scrapper comes out better. 5 or more friends within 30 feet, and the Stalker wins out. Of course, the more melee allies you have, the less support that tends to come with it - apart from kins, most buffers like to keep their distance - and then the Stalker's lower hit points becomes more of a liability.
So, the answer to "do Stalkers or Scrappers have better ST damage?", the answer is a resounding "it depends".
You know, that gives me an idea. I'm going to post it in the Stalker thread, sorry for the OT. -
Quote:If they did as much DPS as you think they do, they'd be more popular.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
And this thread is not the place for a Stalker discussion. This is the Brute forum. If you wish to continue the discussion in the Stalker forum, I would be happy to participate, but I would expect to see more than just generalizations there.
I'll direct you to this thread so you can where your ideas are fully at odds with the community at large.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=244076 -
Quote:Do you have a study that shows Stalkers doing more?Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
In what way? Stalkers have Assassin Strike. They then get more frequent Criticals with the same attacks as Scrappers. The only counterbalancing factor I can think of is, like Brutes, that they only get 80% of the self damage buffs. So for Shields (which Stalkers don't even get) or Kinetic the Scrappers will get much better stacking buffs.
While I can see individual Power Sets doing more DPS for Scrappers than for Stalkers, as with any such AT comparison, I don't believe Scrappers are doing more single target DPS OVERALL. Not unless you can point out a study across several Power Sets that supports this.
If you do have some calculations worked out, toss them up. I'd be very open to reading them, and frankly happy to see if Stalker ST DPS attack chains compete with Scrappers.
I'd have more than the passing interest in the AT than I do now. -
Quote:Stalkers do not, to my knowledge, have better ST DPS than Scrappers.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
The issue with Stalkers is not damage, but attack selection. Stalkers do considerably more single target damage than Scrappers. All arguments to the contrary are pointing out the importance of AoE damage to a team.
But they do.Quote:Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
THIS, I believe, is what is WAI. Castle never said that it was his intention for Stalkers to do less damage than Scrappers overall.
They have worse AoE, worse ST DPS and worse survivability.
What they get in return is full stealth, placate and AS (and I personally find AS an awkward mechanic on most teams) -
Quote:This is my feeling as well.Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
I'm probably picking nits here, but I sort of disagree that it was needed. I understand the argument that Brutes weren't meant to do more damage than Scrappers, what with their higher survivability and all, and therefore had to have their damage reduced. It falls apart when you look at Stalkers though. They have lower than Scrapper survivability and also lower damage in the majority of situations, and this has been deemed WAI by Castle. So the argument that higher survivability should mean lower damage has been proven false.
I wasn't against the fury change at the time but looking back I don't think it was needed at all.
I don't mind the change overall, but the statements on Stalkers makes the fury changes seem unneeded.
At the very least it would be nice if certain Brute attacks or powersets should be looked at and adjusted.
The posterboy for this is SD, it's not even close to the scrapper version for what amounts to an extra 200 HP in the Brute's favor, on a Scrapper you will be doing something on the order of 30% (rough guesstimate) more damage per attack with SC, and AAO will be doing insane things for your ST attack chain.
LR, is also rather lackluster on Brutes in comparison.
Not that I expect these to ever get looked at. -
Quote:Definitely doable, although I think it would require a somewhat specialized build to deal with the rage & hasten crashes if you wanted to do it no insps/no temps.Originally Posted by Werner
So I'd be pretty confident that a Super Strength Brute COULD put out the required DPS. But due to my lack of familiarity with Brutes, I'm not sure how specialized a build it would take, or if you could do it with a nice generalist build without major compromises.
Quote:Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
A 'back of the envelope' calculation seems to show me that super strength brutes with enough recharge bonus, can reach over 250 single-target DPS while at 70 fury and double-raged, and using procs. The chain I used for the calculation was gloom - KO blow - haymaker - gloom - punch - haymaker - repeat. Haymaker had the hecatomb and perfect zinger damage procs, gloom had the apocalypse damage proc. Total chain time is 9.9 seconds.
My SS/SD/Soul brute got 238 DPS (5 mins 46s) on pylon, maintained something like 75-80% fury with *I think* 157-162% global rech & surrounded by Rikti (waited for Fury to build before hopping in):
But the chain was:
KO Blow > Gloom > Haymaker > Punch > Gloom > Haymaker
Both Gloom & Haymaker are double slotted with 1 perfect zinger proc and 1 purple proc (hecatomb and apoc)
10 seconds is correct.Quote:Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
If I'm wrong on the crash duration and it's actually 15 or 20 seconds, then you do about 200 or about 190 DPS over the full cycle of up-and-down. -
Quote:If you can do x6 you should do x8 with the same ability.Originally Posted by Jim_G
I am really not sure what to put into the Alpha slot for my hero-side brute. Currently he has Energy as his Epic but I am open to changing. He is soft-capped on def for melee, not quite on range and AoE but he will be when I go through the second respec and buy a few more sets. Over the last month I have been buying LotG +recharge and the Numena and Miracle +recovery and regen so the brute is already a very reliable solo toon. Its really easy to keep a purple inspiration up at X6 .
Currently I am mainly soling missions on +1/X6, I could probably bump it up to X8 without it being much harder. I find when I get too many mobs around a hostage its almost impossible to SEE them so X6 seems to be the sweet spot.
Post the build, it shouldn't be too hard to softcap.
I see three main options:
Couple of points:Quote:Originally Posted by Jim_G
1) Stay with Energy for my Epic but go with Spiritual for the +recharge boost. The thing is, there is a diminishing rate of returns on +recharge and this toon already has a global recharge of about 35%. I would hate to slot this and find my AoE powers recharge .5 seconds faster.
Spiritual will have no effect on your global recharge, and will be added directly to each individual power that can accept rech rdx SOs.
In which case, ED comes into play.
When the Ultra Rare becomes available it will be a better option, but for now I don't think it will do very much for you (at most it will add a total enhancement of like 5% recharge, I doubt that would shave even a second off of any power fully slotted for rech, say 3 slotted hasten for example.
Fire is good, more damage is good.Quote:Originally Posted by Jim_G
2) Change my epic to Fire to get another AoE attack. In that case I would probably go with the Cardiac for the +endurance since I will be losing the benefits of the Energy epic power
You do have to choose, more damage or more recovery.
I can tell you that my SS/SD/Soul with the Alpha Cardiac Uncommon is fairing very well and was definitely the right Alpha boost for the build.
This would be the least attractive option.Quote:Originally Posted by Jim_G
3) Change to Fire, but go with Musculature for the +damage.
While the ultra rare will help a Brute reclaim a damage bonus similar to the old top end of fury, I think for a build like SS/SD which has +damage bonuses coming out of the wazoo, that even another 30% damage enhancement on top of it is not going to give you much.
My choice would be cardiac if you take any APP/PPP attacks, it will reduce all of your toggle costs and attack costs across the board.
Consider the following sets that are most likely slotted in your attacks for DEF bonuses:
- ToD
- Mako
- Obliteration
- Scirocco's Dervish
The one with the best endurance slotting is Makos at 66.25%, the rest are all 47% and below.
So just from that, you can imagine the impact the cardiac will have on your overall endurance consumption. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Glad we're not bad blood now; I remember having a spat with Obitus over this same issue, and I saw Otiosus and... well, cue mental flatulence.
Life's too short to hold grudges over forum shenanigans.
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Quote:It's quite nice, if you can get enough recharge you can drop the Dampened Spirits Rech/End Rdx and slot a second proc on top of the Apoc Proc.Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
I run something similar ...
Haymaker --> Punch --> Gloom --> Haymaker --> Punch --> KO Blow
I run 80% global recharge and can run the chain with Hasten is up.
Edit: Deus's chain is better .... mmm two Glooms, tasty
And then put Hecatomb in Haymaker, and double proc it again.
I like Clouded Senses or Perfect Zinger procs personally.
This way the two attacks that show up the most often in the chain have the purple procs, as well as a secondary proc.
It's part of how I got a pylon time to 5:46s, although it's not endurance sustainable, and I cheated using recovery serums/blues.
I generally don't need it to be sustainable, as the build is team focused and I usually don't run into End issues outside of hasten & rage crashes (cardiac has done wonders)
That's ok, happens sometimes.Quote:Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
EDIT: I seem to have confused you with another poster. My deepest apologies!
/brainfart
No harm, no foul. -
Quote:Originally Posted by StormDevilEDIT: Oh, while I'm here...I asked a week or so ago about the top (or at least a decent) SS/ attack chain, one which at the very least would allow for AV soloing. Since this thread is now being populated by notable AV soloers, and at least one of y'all mentioned SS as a viable set, any advice on a decent chain?Quote:Originally Posted by FireWyvern
SS attack chains are a bit harder to make cause KO makes up for the crappy attacks. If you can get gloom in there too, you'll pack lots of damage for sure.
Sorry i couldn't help more. ^^;;
The chain I run on my SS/SD is (I didn't do the calculations for it, and ripped it from Bill Z)
KO Blow > Gloom > Haymaker > Punch > Gloom > Haymaker.
Requires about 250% total recharge for Gloom (you can get to 97% from slotting Apoc + one of the To Hit Debuff Rech/End pieces, the rest must come from Global Bonuses and possibly the Alpha Boost - although you will be much better off with Cardiac). -
Quote:It's hysterical that giving someone sound advice is considered a snide comment.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
When your post boils down to 'listen to the community because I disagree with what you did, so you're wrong' you're trolling for a fight. In fact, every time Blue's posted you've rushed in to make some snide comment. This isn't the Market forum. Let it go and find a new hobby.
DM/Invuln can be built to solo AVs, it requires very effective slotting and build planning.
I'll continue to feel free to post this idea whenever it pleases me, especially in threads that are so full of misinformation and confusion as to be laughable. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Darkest Night, Soul Mastery.
Would be my choice as well.
Slot with 1 L50 Enzyme HO, as an Ela Brute you should have no issues running it. -
Quote:I'm not trolling for a fight.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I am extremely happy with my Dark/Invul build exactly the way that it is. Please stop trolling for fights.
My point was that DM/Invuln is a hugely powerful build, and while DM/WP could be IOd to solo AVs as well you could use DM/Invuln for this if you so choose.
Here is a thread on Nihilii's DM/Invuln Scrapper, where he solo'd 9 AVs at the same time.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...lo+DM%2FInvuln -
Quote:You don't need a DM/WP.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Dark/Will huh.... I was soloing the game on one and got stuck at 20 trying to kill slag monsters in the pit for that capt idiot before he would give me missions. After a couple hours slowly killing those thing i gave it up.
Mebbe I will just quick grind the build up to 50 and see what it can do.
Your DM/Invuln could do it, but it would require you to:
- Listen to the community when they advise you on slotting.
- Slot Siphon Life & Midnight's Grasp as attacks and not a "heal only" and as an immobilize.
- Build for softcapped SM/L.
Some things simply just work out much, much better when slotted in a specific way. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Tsuji
I'd imagine any of the single target sets aside from super strength could handle an AV if built properly. Take gloom if you can, it's got very high DPA
Aside from dealing with Endurance issues, which if you build exclusively for soloing AVs can be controlled, there is no reason an SS Brute can't solo AVs. -
Quote:Yeah, I quite like it there personally, but make sure to slot Crowd Control with something like Sciroccos for decent End RdxOriginally Posted by Valorin
One last question, if recharge is useful, is the Force Feedback proc worth it in Crowd Control? It makes a noticeable difference on my SS/Fire on Footstomp.