Deus_Otiosus
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Posts
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Quote:While its not typical for many builds, extra AoEs will do more damage than having less - redraw or otherwise.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Extra-claws aoes demonstrate that you are either 100% focused on farming or fail to comprehend the impact of redraw on your damage.
The ability to attack 10 to 16 targets with a TAoE easily overcomes a tiny bit of redraw.
Redraw is only really a concern with your ST attack chain, as gaps in your chain lead to a decrease of DPS.
But don't take my word for it, feel free to grab E-fences and Ball Lightning and then run several ITFs with hero stats running and then calculate your overall damage output. -
Quote:Originally Posted by BeastMan
As far as my comments concerned I didn't "specify" farming but surviving an ambush is really what sets a scrapper apart from a brute. Who in world argues against level shifted toons? The general argument is concerning non super IO toons and incarnates. Anyone familiar with the pylon thread know that without adding level shifts and speaking in general builds that scrappers are kings of that feat.
To be honest, I'm not even sure what you are talking about.
But no well built, highly IO'd Scrapper or Brute will faceplant easily.
If your point is that against +4x8 Ambushes the Brute will survive and the Scrapper will not - the Brute has an edge vs. Energy Damage and has a bit more HP, but I don't think it will be some clear case of the Scrapper Face-planting and the Brute surviving. -
Quote:And with added recharge, the Brute version is better.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
This isn't exactly rocket surgery. Scrapper spin hits 88% as hard as brute spin and recharges in 66% of the time.
Except unlike other sets, Brute Claws attacks have a higher base Damage Scale than Scrapper Claws Attacks so it doesn't work exactly like it normally does (for example, as in DB).Quote:Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
as it not only operates on a much higher damage scale but it also has a higher buff value. Not only that, but any additional buffs you manage to tack on, assault for instance, will be significant for the scrapper and meaningless for the brute.
Scrappers DO have a higher melee scalar, and they do get more out of FU and yes their FU does give a higher damage bonus - but in this case the base damages of their Claws attacks are lower than the Brute counterparts.
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/
Take a look through there, and you can see the difference in base damage for the two versions of claws. -
Quote:On a high recharge build the Scrapper lower base Rech advantage will be less noticeable.Originally Posted by Sailboat
I know Willpower is flat-out stronger on a Brute and I've been following the Claws arguments with interest. I do really like spamming Scrapper Spin -- which is significantly faster, not just a little faster -- but I don't pretend to know something the serious analysts don't.
If you don't know if you would enjoy fury or not, and you are already L50 and IOd out - then no I don't think you should stress out about it, nor reroll.Quote:Originally Posted by Sailboat
I don't think it's worth re-rolling in my case -- I'm not even sure I like Fury. But I hope Scrapper Claws isn't too far behind Brute version. Sigh.
If you do care about absolute top performance and are willing to put in the time investment to get there, then it is a stronger option. -
Quote:Its been touched on, but here's a good explanation.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Unfortunately nobody seems capable of explaining why!
Quote:Originally Posted by Bill Z bubbaWhen claws was ported to brutes, the powers team increased the base recharge of some of the attacks. This caused the damage and endurance costs to also go up. And then there's the funky claws specific damage/activation equation that got slapped on.
End result? Brute claws was better by a bit than scrapper claws.
Then fury got smacked with the nerf bat. Now? Brute still wins but not by nearly as much.
Basically, when they ported Claws it wasn't a straight port.
The damage scale for the Brute attacks were increased as were the recharge and endurance costs.
This is actually a benefit, because you can reduce the recharge and endurance through enhancements & IO sets, but you can not improve the base damage of a power.
This isn't the case with say, Dual Blades.
Dual Blades is exactly the same for Brutes and Scrappers - so when choosing a DB/Ela Brute or Scrapper or DB/anything really it comes down to "Brute is more resilient, Scrapper does more damage"
Ela is more survivable as a Brute for all of the reasons people have already explained.
- Higher Energy resistance cap, with the ability to actually cap it.
- More HP
- More regen
- Taunt aura to keep stuff near you/in lightning field.
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Quote:Except it isn't...Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I'm not interested in making a pure farmer, I'm interested in characters that are highly capable across a range of content. From that perspective, claws/elec is clearly superior in scrapper form.
And you've yet to understand why. -
Quote:Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Maybe a brute ambush farmer would be wrong to use followup, Deus, but a scrapper wouldn't. If you're breaking up your chain with constant redraw, which you would be doing between ball lightning and fences, you're doing less DPS. By the way, I must have missed the aoe chain you said you'd use?
I'm not sure if Bill tested for Scrappers as well as brutes, but his opinion on claws is one I'm willing to take on face value alone. He does however, back it up.
The redraw incurred is minimal in comparison to the efficiency you gain from simply pumping out more AoEs and attacking 10 to 16 targets, instead of wasting your time on a maintaining a damage bonus you could be getting from an inspiration macro and attacking 1 target.
When Bill says "redraw kills" btw, he means Claws vs. SS and not Follow Up vs. 2 More AoEs.
It doesn't matter if you are a Brute or a Scrapper either, once you are damage capped - FU is a waste of animation time. -
Quote:Granted, this is on my SS/FA Brute, but ST attacks don't even get touched.Originally Posted by Arbegla
Plus once you factor in fury, the brute really just needs to use spin to keep up. Lightning field, and a single target chain to fill in the gaps on spin (which you'll need single target attacks to down bosses anyways, as you are farming with bosses on right?) is enough to clear out the minions and LTs before things really hit the fan.
Even if the build is Claws, I would do a farming build with the mu patron attacks. -
Quote:1) When did this thread become about ambush farming?Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Tell me what your aoe chain would be on an ambush farming claws/elec brute. I can tell you what it won't be: followup -> spin -> focus. You could swap out focus for eviscerate or you could intermittently insert dark oblit and whatever else is recharged when that isn't. Both of those options are inferior to the easily attainable scrapper chain, if you consider that the scrapper can just as easily insert fireball instead of focus half the time. I find that fireball is unnecessary - spin, followup and lightning field really need no assistance in ticket capping rapidly. Survivability is a non issue, as is build cost. So yes, you could spend more to do nearly as well with a claws/elec brute and also be slightly better at AV soloing maybe? Who really cares about that anymore?
2) If you are ambush farming and using any ST attacks, including FU, you are doing it wrong. Get more recharge, and get more AoEs, then make an Inspiration conversion macro for changing everything to reds.
3) Pure Farm builds are all about Recharge, in which case Brute Spin will win out.
4) For general play, and high end builds - and yes, even ambush farms, Brute Claws/Ela > Scrapper Claws/Ela.
I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but at this point in the thread you seem wholly dedicated to randomly injecting your opinion without any coherency and proclaiming "scrapper claws is better" and going by nothing at all except the base recharge. -
Quote:Scrapper Spin's lower recharge and lower damage scale favors the Brute, not the other way aroundOriginally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Lightning field is also buffed by follow up. Spin recharge is indeed slightly better for scrappers, if 66% is slight. Power surge? Heh. As ever with brutes vs scrappers, it's mitigation vs damage. Scrapper claws/elec does better damage. Magical thinking has little impact on the truth of this.
I'm willing to listen, but you keep stating this over and over without any actual numbers to back it up, unless you think the base recharge alone makes Scrapper Spin > Brute Spin - which is wrong. -
Quote:Fair enough, although as a ranged cone w/ KB it was really the closest power to compare it to.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
In fairness, shockwave is the highest DPA cone in the game and also one of the strongest control powers scrappers get access to. Nothing compares well with shockwave. I happen to agree that repulsing torrent is no more worth taking than scrapper fire breath, but even charitably judging it on its own merits can lead you to that conclusion, no need to bring shockwave into this.
For some reason the devs decided to give RT a lower damage scale, with less effective control and double the cast time.
The design of RT is mind boggling. -
Quote:I don't know, comparing it to Shockwave it looks really bad to me.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Repulsing Torrent's damage is effective. It is not great. It is lower than it should be based on its recharge, for no reason I can comprehend, but it is not low enough that you can just write it off. It's animation is too long and like all cones requires some positioning to maximize.
It is skippable. A large, ranged cone KB power is not everyone's cup of tea. That being said, you cannot judge KM's AoE output fairly by ignoring Repulsing Torrent just because some people fail to utilize it well.
When I played around with it back in beta, the damage felt pathetic, and did KB - in a set that wants enemies available to attack to maintain PS.
On top of that, the KB isn't even guaranteed - making a questionable mitigation power at best.
I simply can't find any reasons to like this power. -
Quote:Just a nitpick.Originally Posted by Delerious
You use Gaussian's because compared to adjusted targeting it's set bonuses are more useful for an /inv.
you get extra recovery
extra hp
extra damage
and most importantly extra defense all around
+Damage bonuses are easily ignored on a Brute build. You are swimming in +Damage from Fury & FU, the tiny improvements you get from sets don't do much for Brutes.
Doing half is still worse.Quote:Originally Posted by AF_Bill
Damage: Follow-up is poor for damage as a single power. Your build does 61.9 base damage, while mine is almost half at 34.2, neither is great.
That being said I wouldn't have gone with MB either.
I went with 4 KC pieces, 1 Mako quad and the gaussian proc.
You don't need the entire GSFC set to slot the chance for BU unique.Quote:Originally Posted by AF_Bill
As you know, it’s all about setting up for the next attacks. This is where Gaussian’s +chance for build up could kick in. Yes, it’s only a 5% chance, but when/if it kicks in then the damage bonus (and to-hit bonus) is definitely a bonus. -
Quote:You have already recognized that Handclap is a power you don't want. You show real promise!!Originally Posted by Raeda
I do want to get a respec done on her though as my first build took handclap which I barely used and found I didn't like much and the other build while lots of fun needs a slot overhaul.
Check your PM inbox.Quote:Originally Posted by Raeda
That may take some time though because I just can't find a team for the level 24 respec and then after well over a hour of asking in Virtue LFG Beta someone kindly told me that not many people do it unless it's something I can't remember
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Quote:Originally Posted by Kioshi
It's actually not a bad pairing even right now, you can cap s/l/n/e and get aid self, besides having unlimited endurance earlier than elec armor. Or cap f/c too but I couldn't do that and keep aid self. And Mace has great mitigation, which helps a lot.
It was bad because at the time the OP posted (before your join date here, so maybe you weren't in the game) Mace/EA was laughed at but it received some buffs after that, and now it will get even more (like everything they port to heroes lol)
Your wife hates gamming?
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What you're experiencing is the joy of grouping with a Mastermind in a small enclosed area.
It never gets better. -
flooder
n.1.One who floods anything.
In naval mine warfare, a device fitted to a buoyant mine which, on operation after a preset time, floods the mine case and causes it to sink to the bottom. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Dinamo
What's wrong? If I do not have deep knowledge in setting up build, ask for suggestions for the people here who knows how?
Do not know? Do not want to help? DO NOT POST, so post it? To be nasty? Floda? There's nothing useful in your post!
You have 1.444 posts like this useless? Congratulations, you have much free time and an empty head!
1) What's wrong is that if you do not work on your own builds, and simply copy what others give you - you will never really learn to build well on your own.
2) It's also, as others have said, forum etiquette rather than simply begging and asking for others to do all of the work for you.
3) Nice work showing your level of maturity though, sending me a PM to gloat that others have spoon-fed you a build that you have no concept of how to do for yourself.
2 builds have been given to you, one is better than the other. Are you able to recognize which one that is? -
I made some changes to get you more recharge, but I did this with the assumption that you were looking strictly for a farm build.
If you also want this build for general play, just steal some of the slotting ideas I wouldn't go with this build as is for that.
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Quote:Typically you will get more people to help you with a build that you post, rather than requesting people to create one from scratch for you.Originally Posted by Dinamo
Does anyone have a good build for a brute Dark Melee/Fiery Aurea/Soul Mastery? Without recipes purples (unless not expensive as armagedon and ragnarok ...), that has good recharge?
What incarnates do you recommend?
Could you please post builds? -
Quote:Its also a really great spot for the Enfeebled Operation set.Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
2) The AoE immob in Mace Mastery is just...yummy for some blasters. Especially Fire and /Fire ones. It makes powers like Rain of Fire, Burn, and Hotfeet more effective since enemies can't run away then. Of course it's also quite helpful for AoE damage auras in general.
Quote:Originally Posted by ObitusThat said, if I'm right about the devs' intentions here, then it really is crappy that Villain Epics require an alignment shift, but Hero Epics don't.
Technically they are not called "Hero" Epics and "Villain Epics".
They are called "Epic Power Pools" and "Patron Power Pools".
Nothing is required for the unlock of "Epic Pools", and all characters must align themselves with a Patron and do one of their story arcs to gain access to all of the "Patron Power Pools".
Coincidentally, you must be a villain to align yourself with a Villain patron. -
Quote:We live in a crazy age of the game, where adding a permanent boost of +5% Resistance and Defense to all damage types is considered "a pittance".Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
The barrier gives you lots of protection up front, but by the end of the 120-second mark, you've got just a pittance.
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Quote:When it comes to my favorite characters, ain't no half steppin'Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
pimpin' ain't easy
Even then, you can pop barrier and be unkillable for the handful of seconds in between Dark Regen casts.Quote:Originally Posted by Werner
Hmmm, I know I ran the numbers for Rebirth on my Katana/Dark, and that it wasn't as good as Barrier. I think you're right about the reason - Dark Regeneration is HUGE, just absolutely mind-bogglingly huge. Rebirth is amazing too, and in practice it might be nice to have two healing powers for when you get hit with a spike of damage even faster than your Dark Regeneration recharge, but it's just really hard for me to argue against Barrier on a Dark Armor. -
Quote:I agree, there is no point.Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown
and after the nerfs - what's the point?
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I don't like Kinetic Melee because it doesn't really have any shining advantage against any other particular powerset, except for EM (and KM is arguably a modernized version of EM).
ST?
FM, DM both do good ST, except one has much better AoE and doesn't require much recharge and the other is the premiere utility/survival set.
AoE? Claws, DB, SS, FM are all better while all also having solid to very good ST.
Mitigation? SS, SM & WM all have incredibile mitigation ability, with varying levels of AoEs and heavy ST damage.
I also don't like that it "punishes" you for going outside the set for attacks (FA, Patron Pool, Epic, etc) and interferes with PS stacking.