Deus_Otiosus
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:You're right. My mistake.Originally Posted by Siolfir
Nitpick: regen is increased, the value of the heal from Siphon does not. It's larger for Brutes based on their hp modifier, but not based on whatever max hp you manage to get out of the build - a level 50 Scrapper at the hp cap will have the same heal as a level 50 Scrapper without any +hp powers, set bonuses, or accolades.
And if you want to hold aggro for teams, SFs/TFs, Leagues while also being able to do 250+ DPS with your ST chain - go Brute.Quote:Originally Posted by Siolfir
And again, a Tanker will have a larger heal value and more survivability, and will be able to build for much better recharge while still maintaining softcapped defense values.
If you want damage, go Scrapper. If you want survivability, go Tanker. If you want to go with a different secondary, go Brute.
AAO might do less for a Brute, but that doesn't mean it does nothing at all. -
Quote:Actually, with high recharge you can get Crowd Control down to an amazing 3.5 to 4 s rech.Originally Posted by Colossal
It's hard for mobs to slowly stagger away when they're are being knocked down every 7-8 seconds.
Most enemies stand up only to get KD'd right back down again.
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Quote:Stuns aren't something that are very appealing from a Brute playstyle perspective, IMO.Originally Posted by Supermax
I think I found the solution. Stone is out since it doesn't have enough AoE for my tastes. And I think I'll just make both an axe and a mace....one DA and one EA. Any thoughts on which primary would synergize more with which secondary? I'm thinking DA would go well with mace, to stack the stuns with OG?
Enemies not attacking you are enemies not generating fury.
Warmace, is somewhat on the slower side (same for BA) and therefore does not generate Fury as well as some of the faster sets (Claws, Fire Melee).
So now you have two things that can have the potential to hinder top end fury.
On top of this, regardless of whether you choose BA or WM to go with DA, you are looking at a fairly end intensive build. Slot early, and will need to slot heavy for end rdx. You will also be facing some redraw (the redraw from WM drives me nuts).
Personally, I would probably pair either of them with Invuln, WP, SD, Ela and possibly the new EA before I went with DA. -
Quote:Warmace has solid ST hitters and the best AoE capabilites of the 3. It has Crowd Control, which is KD and not stun, which is pretty much the jewel of the set.Originally Posted by Supermax
So I'm looking on input on the 3 weapon sets in the subject. What are the pros/cons of each, as compared to each other?
Stone Melee has the heaviest ST hitters, but also the heaviest end use. It is the king of soft control mitigation through fault and KD, but it has the worst AoE capabilities of the three. This is the only choice that will not incur redraw with DA.
BA is not too dissimilar to BS in terms of the attacks it gets, it does have a lot of KD however and does not have a parry clone. It also has pendulum, which does a bit more damage than Crowd Control, but has a max of 5 targets vs. the 10 that Crowd Control can hit. -
Quote:I did.Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
While their statement is false, you also have to factor in Soul Drain and AAO where the scrapper clearly beats a brute since both are factored off of base damage.
You mean except for when OWTS is slotted and allows you to push around 2800, which is beyond the Scrapper Cap.Quote:Originally Posted by Kenteko
For two, brutes still retain punchvoke, and their survivability in SD comes down to a literal 200 HP and change.
Even with just 1 L50 Heal IO, you can Break 2700 after accolades, IO sets, etc.
Regen matters quite a lot to a primarily Defense based melee build.Quote:Originally Posted by Kenteko
This is not as big a gain as, say, invuln or willpower, where they can achieve a higher HP Cap, have mixed defenses, and regen matters more. A brute will be pulling more aggro and generally be in danger substantially more then the scrapper, despite their defenses being almost the same.
SD does have layered mitigation, its just not as highly specialized on survivability compared to Invuln, which is the sacrifice it makes in favor of more offense.
That being said it has roughly comparable resistances to exotic damage types vs. invuln, and has an infinitely more use-friendly T9 power.
I have both SD Scrappers and SD Brutes.
My AoE heavy Brutes take quite a large portion of incoming aggro, and the SD Scrappers are really not that far behind. The taunt in AAO is incredibly strong, and any SD character will be eating a large portion of aggro whether they like it or not.
My SD Scrappers are constantly drawing a ton of aggro on Lambda & BAF.
Aside from FA, I would argue that the other options are not nearly as offensive as SD.Quote:Originally Posted by Kenteko
Shield defense is one of the worst sets a brute could pick, as it IS worse to a scrapper in virtually every way. Scrappers have a higher base damage, lower damage caps (which AAO and SD help to achieve), and don't have punchvoke, which helps quite a bit when it comes to not dying. Having 200 more HP won't stop something that'll one shot a scrapper, save for some extreme circumstances. The other thing to realize is that brutes just have flat out better options as far as damage goes, so SD is kinda left in the dust.
I also think what I said above replies to most of this, 2700 to 2800 HP is a very large gap, which also increases Regen and heals from Siphon.
There is also the availability of Darkest Night, which can get you to incarnate softcap and increases your survivability in a way the Scrapper simply has no answer for.
Any answer the Scrapper does come up with, Barrier, +res inspirations, demonic aura/eye of the magus - the Brute has access to as well.
My point is not that the Brute version is better, but that the benefits on the Brute end are often underestimated.
Trust me, I thought long and hard before I finally decided on Brute over Scrapper for my DM/SD. I knew I was going to spare no expense on the build and the Scrapper DPS was very tempting.
In the end, I decided on the option that can potentially draw and hold more aggro for a team, with a higher peak survivability as well as Darkest Night which benefits any allies in range with the extra protection it provides. -
Quote:I find the Brute Patron & Epics to be overall better choices, in particular Darkest Night makes for a pretty amazing choice coupled with all of the great things about the DM/SD combo.Originally Posted by Siolfir
Scrappers.
There's really not much reason I can think of to make a Shield Brute, unless you just don't like Scrappers or Tankers.
The Brute will also have a rough extra 200HP or so and can get around 2800 or so with OWTS if they slot for it.
You will regen more HP/S due to higher HP, and you will heal more with each cast of Siphon Life, and Rebirth will provide a higher benefit.
You will lose out on the absolute top end DPS DM/SD is capable of, but you will still do very good to excellent DPS and you will be harder to kill. -
Quote:Unfortunately I didn't take a good look at the support trees.Originally Posted by Big_Soto
Hey Deus_Otiosus,
I seen your sig and the DPS from the Lore's. Do you happen to have a list of buffs provided by all the Lore pets?
You can see their powers in game, without being crafted, but that is a bit of a hassle if your goal is to compare them. -
Quote:I don't think it's the entire picture either.Originally Posted by Leese
Well, DPS is great, I just don't think it's the entire picture.
My goal with the pylon tests was really just to get a clearer picturer on the easiest aspect of pets to quantify.
I've taken quite a large variety of pets on live and I will say I'm never disappointed when I use one of the top tier DPS pets.
My NW for example has both T3 Core Phantasma & T3 Core Storm Elementals.
I find I am consistently satisfied with the phantasms over the elementals on the escapee phase of BAF.
In practice the high ST damage attacks of the phatasms wins out over the AoE of the elementals as the goal is to kill escapees as quickly as possible and the pet AI limitations makes the AoEs not as useful simply because the pets are not smart enough to maximize their use. -
Probably out of your price range, but something to work towards.
Requires Accolades and T4 Cardiac Incarnate Alpha.
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This is a Brute build I put together for someone on the Brute forums.
You'll need to adapt it, but you might like some of the slotting ideas.
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Quote:Rad is lucky in that it doesn't really need to actually do much.Originally Posted by TrainRobber
I think traps and Rad suffer from the same issue, on fast moving teams, neither is used much.
Generally if a team is moving so fast that the majority of my Fire/Rad's debuffs are not worth casting - I'll usually pop EF on a Boss or EB and then just shoot the hell out of stuff.
For longer duration fights or situations where I'm alone (like lambda split phase) I can drop both toggles, LR the entire spawn and then go to town with RoF, Fireball and my ST attacks.
That's the strength of Rad, it's gives a ton of "free time" to just go on offense, which is my preferred style of play. -
Quote:The Decimation Proc is a chance for build up.Originally Posted by Basilisk
Since I have a Decimation: Chance for hold
Devastation has the chance for hold proc. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Kioshi
I don't care I lol at scrappers, STRONG is more fit for Brutes, you can take more hitz from teh skulz
Scrappers will be lol'ing when their Crowd Control crits teh skulz. -
Quote:For soaking big hits, yeah it does.Originally Posted by Auroxis
SD still has OWTS on top of that, which tips the scales quite a bit.
Although with a touch of slotting you can get to about 3K HP easily with overload running, and with The Energize Clone, Decent slotting & Rebirth I think it works out to around 600% Regen.
Mids is showing Overload's +HP is 40%, and OWTS is +20%. Which is nice.
Also, for a high recharge build there is also potential for quasi back to back Overloads with the upcoming Burnout.
Its a power you use to get near or over the Incarnate softcap.Quote:Originally Posted by JawDropper_EU
Oh I totally get that and my current EM/EA build has done exactly that. But then surely that changes the role that the new Energy Absorption power will play. Instead of being a power you use every group to raise your def, it's a power you use to ...
I will take any and every Alpha that I can for constant high levels of Fury regardless of my secondary.Quote:Originally Posted by JawDropper_EU
Of course, if you're in a team with a tank this is all moot anyway. Stick to him, let him take alpha, enjoy the tasty tasty def on each and every group.
I think the only time I let a Tanker break an Alpha for me on purpose is if I have no end drain resistance and I don't feeling eating Famine Rider's big fat -rech/end drain.
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Quote:That's why you build for SM/L/Ene softcap in the first place, and don't rely on the click power to softcap you.Originally Posted by JawDropper_EU
The only drawback that I can see with it, is that you still have the problem with alpha-taking that EA currently suffers. Once you're in a big group with your def capped, you'll be relatively solid, but you're going to have to take the alpha before you can receive the benefits of the improved def. Two lucky hard hits in that section will be risky.
Then, the only hole you will have at that point will be Psi and maybe Negative.
Quote:Originally Posted by Kioshi
Isn't the s/l res less than unslotted tough? CoD is down atm and I'm on mac os x so no mids now.
Yes it's low, and it's lower than Tough but stacked with Tough you can eek out about 29% SM/L Res.
Most SD Builds get in the 28 to 34% range, and up to 41% on an extreme build that takes T4 Cardiac as well as the Shield Wall.
So 29% Sm/L res, while softcapped, with a self heal and +regen and then you can add Rebirth on top of that? That will work well. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Cold_X
Shadow Meld.
Darkest Night. -
Quote:No you did more than that.Originally Posted by Big_Soto
All I did was increase the % of damage bonus to equal that of the Apocalypse set.
Yes, that part in red is the Humongous part.Quote:Originally Posted by Big_Soto
So explain the "humongous margin". As for the recharge and HP % bonus it mirrors the Apoc set as well. All I did that was out of the norm was instead of a specific type defense/ resist, I think it would be more of a tanker bonus to resist/defense all.
Quote:Originally Posted by Big_Soto
FYI... Apocalypse set bonus
Set Bonuses
2: Improves your Regeneration by 16%.
3: Increases maximum Health by 3%.
4: Improves the Damage of all your powers by 4%.
5: Improves the Recharge of all your powers by 10%.
6: Increases Psionic Defense by 5%.
FYI: 5% Psionic Defense is not even remotely in the same universe as 4% DEF and RES to all damage types.
That's more +DEF and +RES than the Gladiator Unique and Shield Wall Unique combined.
If you hadn't noticed, and I'm assuming you hadn't, the Developers have specifically kept these IOs under the level of power of Purple & PvP IO sets but above the level of power of many rare sets.Now do you notice what's wrong with your suggestion? -
Quote:Its not possible, nor advisable.Originally Posted by DrOctagon
And now I'd like to build an awesome SoA. Of course I don't want to do any damage. I'd be very happy if I only had attacks that did some debuffing, in fact.
Is this possible? What type of SoA would be best?
SoAs have a variety of build potential, but the one thing all of them have in common is that their primary set is focused on Offense.
They just happen to bring a great level of support on top of it.
I'd also like to say that going out of your way to avoid dealing damage is easily one of the worst things you could do to your team, and is about as far from supporting them as possible.
I would rather ave, pretty much any AT/Build on my team than any player with the strongest buffs/debuffs available and no intent to deal damage.
Quote:Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
You'll have to work extra hard to turn an Veat into a leech. I would say "Good Luck with That", but I don't want to wish a leech onto any team, no matter how badly they might otherwise deserve it.
If, however, you want strong buffing and defensive support, I would recommend a Fortunata Ranged Control Build. If you want a more offensive support build, I'd recommend a huntsman build.
The Fortunata can bring ~30 defense all with controls as good as the lower end spectrum of controllers, all while being self-armored and very hard to kill and bringing sufficient offense to take down an AV, but not a pylon. A Melee Fortunata variant would give up minimal control, and gain additional offense capable of taking down a pylon.
The Huntsman can bring ~20 defense all, with up to -60% Resistance to multiply team offense, all while being self-armored and very hard to kill and bringing sufficient offense to take down a pylon.
Additionally you can take Rebirth Radial for Healing, Void Radial for -damage, Paralytic Radial for -damage, Gravitic Radial for -special, and a Radial Lore for Support, probably the IDF for the AoE Bubble, but I'd have to research the lore option.
Crabs I reserve for AoE Offensive platforms, or Tank platforms; I use mine as a tank. Banes are similar to huntsman, but more melee oriented and may not have as much debuffing. Night Widows are more Self Offense oriented, and lack the control, but can still contribute significant defense.
Great Post!! -
Quote:As Purple sets are not, to my knowledge, currently slated to be sold in the new paragon market - my assumption is that the devs are not looking to sell purples or anything as powerful as purples in the paragon market.Originally Posted by Big_Soto
I think the bonuses for the tanker set should be closer to the purple sets but the last 2 bonuses should be more for the tanks:
(2) Improves the Damage of all your powers by 4%.
(3) Increases maximum Health by 3%.
(4) Improves the Recharge of all your powers by 10%
(5) Increase defense to all by 4%
(6) Increase resistance to all by 4%
If they are gonna be super rare and only one set per AT then make the bonuses well worth it.
Not to mention that your example above easily outclasses every single Damage purple set currently in game by a humongous margin. -
Quote:At the same time the Brute one is one of the very few that will not allow the Brute to go beyond their caps - this is one of the greater values of Procs offensively.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
What I take issue with is the set's proc.
A chance for + Res isn't something I would seek out or want in such a set.
Why are Tankers singled out in such a way? Under the new role definitions, Brutes are grouped as "tanks", yet they get an IO that enhances Fury instead of one that buffs their Defense or causes a -ToHit on enemies.
Obviously we can't yet test to see if this lets Brutes go past the current 75-80% Fury barrier, but if it doesn't - it's a useless improvement and a straight +damage proc would have been better offensively.
Even if it does, just how far can they push past the current barrier? Another 5-7% Fury is not really going to setting any new records and is in fact still less than Brutes used to be capable of.
Even now, when building if you have a choice between say an additional 10-15% +Damage enhancement or a damage proc, you should slot a damage proc (This holds true for brutes usually, and potentially Scrappers as well).
I don't necessarily disagree with you on the Tanker proc, but we haven't actually seen the proc yet or just how much resistance it adds.
Depends on the standpoint being taken.Quote:Originally Posted by Auroxis
I find it strange that the brute version gets a decent amount of S/L defense in its set bonuses while the tanker version does not. Makes it more difficult to fit in current tanker builds.
If Brutes are going to continually be marketed as "lesser" damage dealers (from the pre-AT selection write up of damage dealers) and pushed more to emphasize their "tanky" aspects, they are at a fairly large disadvantage when building with IOs (which these sets are designed specifically for).
They have 25% less Defense base to work from to begin with, they effectively have further to go than Tankers do to attain solid survivability levels and contrary to some frequently posted lines of thought - they do not run around with capped mitigation all of the time.
In fact, pre-side switching trying to "tank" for low and mid level redside teams was often a nightmare for a lot of Brute builds doing it on an AT that is only slightly tougher than a Scrapper but can potentially draw as much aggro as a Tanker.
This is just speculation on my part, and I'm not saying the Tanker set is perfect. -
Quote:1) EA has resistances currently, and has slightly less SM/L than SD.Originally Posted by Deathbeforedisco
My biggest fear with it and the super reflexes powerset, is taking one hit, then having your green bar turn red because 95% of your health points are taken away by that one blow that got through and having to use alot of greens to stay alive and not get 10 bars of debt.
2) After the changes EA will have both a self heal (it has one currently), as well as a +Regen Power. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Elegost
here's what we've been wanting:
finally got it out of someone.
Nice!
Sounds interesting. -
Quote:Originally Posted by SevereCalamity
Isn't that technically true of all +damage boosts? Brutes just get less benefit from +damage than scrappers.
Aside from Concentrated Strike criticals refreshing Power Siphon in Kinetic Melee for scrappers, I don't think there's any difference between the way the in set damage boosts work between scrappers and brutes.
I should have been clearer, I'm hoping for a mechanic more on the lines of the revamped FE as opposed to PS, FU, BF, etc.
Or even better, something new entirely. -
Quote:That doesn't mean it's not an option and should never be discussed like some taboo.Originally Posted by LSK
Problem with that one is not every one wants to go all the way to vill then back to hero. It has been stated time and time again in this forum by a few ppl they do not wish to do that for various reasons. 1 it may be time consuming, 2 that might not be the background of the tank, 3 The concept of the tank may not be like that.
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The best defense is a good offense.
Fire/Rad.