Dechs Kaison

The guide I've written is in my signature.

Extra defense is always worth the end cost.

Point of reference: Weave costs almost double the endurance, provides the exact same defense values, does not give you stealth or the same immobilization protection.

Cloak of Darkness is worth every last drop of endurance you spend on it.

I just don't get it. Knocked back enemies aren't doing damage to you anyway, so who cares whether they contribute to your defense? Jump away from the group for a second, knock them all in the same direction, and jump back.

I'm playing through a Claws/Dark and it is an absolute beast. I use Shockwave to keep my enemies where I want them. On their backs and in a tight group for my damage aura and Spin.

Minions and LTs don't need to be debuffed. You have plenty of debuffs to handle the bosses.

Keep aggro off the pets and your second issue becomes a non-issue.

You mean to tell me that the bland footstomp is enough to flatten all your henchmen standing amidst a 16 man team piled on top of an AV, dropping PBAoE buffs like candy?

I'll be perfectly honest, the AV section of the fight is usually too short to care and I keep my henchmen right next to me. My bots take hits. Quite a few even, but they still very rarely die.

If zombies or ninjas are somehow that much more fragile than my bots (and you can't blame IOs, because those don't benefit henchmen. I don't have either of the +resist uniques), then keep this in mind: Your pets have ranged attacks and AVs are a small portion of the fight. So for a little while you have to micromanage with defensive/follow and attack. You're not at full effectiveness for the AV. Or you resummon the Genin/zombies a few times. Big flippin' deal.

You mean the one where he gives you plenty of warning so that you might be able to hit follow/defensive and get your henchmen out of range?

My bots exhibit this behavior too. What's most odd is that the Protectors will even run into melee, despite not even having a [Brawl] attack. I concede that this is a flaw in the AI, but it's not crippling. Tap follow/defensive. This "resets" the henchmen and they return to you and pretend like they have nothing aggro'd for a few seconds. This will be the case even if you are currently under fire. To bypass the wait time, issue a goto command immediately after your defensive/follow.

You must have misread my statement. Yes, there are PBAoEs that can quickly decimate a henchman army. I clearly said to keep them out of PBAoE range. Attack things on the edge of the enemy group. Don't let your henchmen stand beside a tank or a brute that has Armageddon aimed at his face.

The Mastermind is all about henchmen management. Once you learn that, you stop having all these problems.

Then I don't know what to tell you because it's what I do and it's how my henchmen react. Exactly as described.

No, it's absurd to discuss balance with regards to IOs. Everything is overpowered with IOs, and that's kind of the point of the game.

They're over powered because, on SOs, they can handle things meant for teams, specifically x8 missions and AVs. Please feel free to reference the rest of the argument where I made this claim.

I'm not going to argue that a few powers don't need a look at. Poison Trap from /poison is pretty absurd, as well as Serum.

Again, I don't know what to tell you. I started the iTrials with Lambda and the only level shift I had was the Alpha. I never use the stay command. I use goto and follow defensive. I'm able to keep up with the team in the sabotage stage and I'm able to keep my bots out of AoE ranges.

Is it as simple as playing my Dark Armor tank that wades in and mashes 1, 2, 3, 4 repeat? No. Is it impossible? Not hardly. Do my henchmen die? Yes. Do they die too often that I'm not contributing? Hell no.

I believe it is. It's harder to accomplish, but it is an option. Taunt their targets and stand out of range of your henchmen. Don't let them run into melee next to the tanks and brutes; have them attack targets on the fringe.

Again, this isn't button mashing, but it's no impossible task.

No it's not. Masterminds are not an exact science, they're just more difficult than any other AT (except maybe Warshade). I've never claimed any different.

Fair enough, but you won't accomplish anything with that. If you're going to make a claim and want it taken seriously, you need to bring proof to the table that your claim is valid. You've yet to do so.

I certainly implied that I'd win the race in the scenarios given. Your snide comment was met with an equal.

You wouldn't prove anything even if you could "win a race" against my bots/traps. Your initial claim is that MMs deal less damage than controllers with containment. How do grav/emp, earth/FF or ice/thermal controllers do with containment?

Some controller combinations may out damage some MM combinations in some specific situations.

Your claim, as implied, is ludicrous.

You have three options, but none of the ones you've listed.

1. Summon them somewhere away from you and use a goto command immediately so they stay there.

2. Move to a clear spot and summon them at your feet, then tap your follow/defensive macro there. The follow/defensive command has an inherent delay in it which is to allow the henchmen to return to you before engaging any enemies. For about three full seconds, they won't do anything. Tap again to extend this.

3. Remove yourself from combat, but don't wait for aggro to shed and debuffs to wear off. Tap your follow/defensive, use your travel power and get behind an obstacle a few yards away. Summon your new pets, buff them up, and waltz back into the battle. Yeah, some aggro may be following you, but there's plenty of time because you have a travel power to move ten times their speed and you can go over the obstacle they have to go around.

Show me where I said MMs are overpowered in all content all the time. Good luck finding it. I said Bots/Traps is OP, and I'm not speaking for the others.

I believe MMs as a whole are pretty well balanced with a few outliers on the OP side.

That is absolutely not the case. MMs don't really even benefit from IOs, so it's not a matter of a perfect build. You don't need to be so precise, there's plenty of room for error. If I can handle the trials with +3 enemies to the point I was soloing spawns, you have room for error on the standard difficulty stuff.

It's just some basic stuff you aren't doing. Keep your henchmen out of AoE range. Don't let them take aggro. Leverage your bodyguard mode.

Look, it may not be easy, but it's not nearly as hard as you're making it out to be. If you want easy, go roll a brute or a tank. If you want to have to think a little bit while you play, then get a mastermind.

Sybils, Cysts, Generals, and Rescues are all the same. I aggro everything along the way, big deal. It eventually leashes or I kill it.

Glowies are even easier. Stealth to the objective, then summon.

This doesn't make any kind of sense. I already said even on trials with multiple other tanks, I'm performing my tankermind style to the benefit of the team.

Guess what? We don't need tanks. We don't need defenders, controllers, or any specific AT. We don't need anything but damage, as 8 blasters have completed an MoSTF long before i19. I guess every valid playstyle has been eliminated, following your logic.

I'd love to. The target is a Quarry in the Hive. Either that or Carnies on +2/x8. Your choice.

That's nice. Until you do some math, you've yet to prove that one is superior to the other. At this point it's still personal preference.

I contend that they are simply underrepresented. They've always been one of the least popular ATs, and that's largely due to the difficulty of play. Until I see some math to prove otherwise, your lack of arguments have no weight and can hope to accomplish nothing.

Masterminds as an AT are more difficult than the others. I'm not debating that. But you seem to believe that they should be compensated for that; for some reason, they should be even more powerful so that the people who don't want the difficulty can still excel with them. This is what I disagree with.

You just have to understand that learning these things take time, practice, and effort. No one jumped into a fighter plane and turned the tide of a war in a month.

Please do some math in an attempt to prove this, then we'll address it.

As it stands, I have a hard time believing something with the buffs/debuffs/heals of Pain Domination, 75% resistance to everything, and six expendable teammates doing the damage is "vastly underpowered compared to most other archetypes."

Scrappers don't survive as well as Tanks. Tanks don't do as much damage as Brutes. Corruptors don't buff/debuff/heal as well as defenders. Defenders don't do as much damage as Blasters. You know why? Because the ATs do different things.

If you want to be the best buff/debuff out there, roll a defender. If you want to deal a ton of damage, roll a blaster. If you want to be able to do it all, you roll the mastermind.

This is a wild accusation with no real evidence to back it up.

What makes them lack mobility? Currently, the Sabotage stage of the Lambda trial is the most mobility requiring challenge in the game. With my MM, I am able to keep up with the team and my henchmen are contributing to team damage.

You seem to be forgetting the leash which teleports henchmen to their summoner when the distance between becomes to large. I have used this, along with passive following (it seems to decrease henchmen threat generation) to keep my henchmen mobile and alive.

Tankerminding is primarily used to keep aggro off of the henchmen. If another teammate has aggro controlled, why would you need to tankermind?

Despite this, my MM still functions as a tank on the incarnate trials. I have pulled Nightstar to the courts. I soak Marauder's irresistible damage because, to a MM, it is resistible.

Could you show me your math that proves controllers that can manage to contain their enemies can out damage a mastermind?

Personal preference, not a valid argument. Good try, though.

Valid argument: A mastermind has permanent, controllable henchmen which are superior to those of a Crab, while offering a larger variety of team buffs and/or debuffs.

See above comment about personal preference.

Are you seriously going to imply that the SS/Fire provides more team buffs than a Mastermind?

No one said MMs farm better than SS/Fire brutes, much as you wouldn't say the SS/Fire buffs a team better than the MM. They do different things.

The fact that the Mastermind can farm comparatively as fast in addition to being able to buff an entire team is more than counterpoint to your lack of argument here.

I'm sorry you were offended, but I can't consider such a flippant misrepresentation of my argument as anything remotely "civil."

This is completely incorrect if you manage your pets. Why are your pets in range of AoEs hitting you?

I have fought AVs and Giant Monsters with large AoEs. The AoEs themselves are likely enough to one shot my minions, but my bots are never in range of these AoEs.

This argument is invalid because you're ignoring the tactics required to do this. What would happen if, in a team, the AV focused his efforts on the blasters and debuffing defenders (his real threat) before dealing with the tank? The same thing that would happen to a mastermind. Does that in any way diminish the accomplishments of a good team?

The mastermind is a team. The mastermind himself is at the same time a tank and a defender. His henchmen are the scrappers/blasters, and in some cases controllers.

Why are you summoning these pets in range of things that are going to kill them? The summon doesn't have to happen at your feet, there is some range to it. Don't let the henchmen come running right to you either. And if the fight really is that bad, withdraw, re-summon, re-enter.

These aren't very high level tactics or even intelligent plays that require practice. No, it's not as easy as a brute who can toggle up and go, but you knew that going in. Masterminds are not "button mash until the enemy is dead." A Mastermind is a high performance vehicle; you can do incredible things if you do it correctly, but the controls are touchy and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll get yourself killed.

You clearly have no experience with bots/traps. On SOs, it can solo AVs and x8 missions. Tell me another combo that can do that.

Bots/traps can softcap to s/l on SOs. Include energy if you take weave and combat jumping.

No, this is a logical fallacy. You are using a specific case and applying it to the general. No matter how you justify it in your mind, it is not a logical conclusion you can reacy.

Very yes.

Out of this list, I have Softcapped to S/L/Ranged, Aid Other, Team Teleport/Recall Friend, Provoke, and Softcapped pets. In addition to this, though, I have capped HP half the time.

Some changes I'm considering would drop Team Teleport/Recall Friend in exchange for Almost Permahasten, Aid Self, and complete stealth ability. Not sure it's worth it. I really like teleport.