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Posts
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I'm going to suggest the performance shifter proc if you only put one slot in nova. Works out to 0.2 end/sec recovery. Not bad.
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Quote:You can put hasten on auto and bind your w key to "+forward$$powexecname practiced brawler".Is there a work-around? For example, lets say I use Auto on PB.
So now I want Hasten to auto-engage. is there a way to tie Hasten to a click power (say storm kick). In that, If Storm Kick is clicked, then hasten will auto trigger if it is available?
That way, anytime you try to move forward, practiced brawler will try to fire. -
I got about ten lines in before I had to stop reading...
I'll read more when I get home.
And Bitt, you owe me a keyboard. This one's full of Mt. Dew. -
Quote:I'm not going to comment on your build (I doubt I'm qualified), but I will answer these questions.Superspeed on a warshade? For the stealth? I know teleport and fly are available.
Concealment?
I picked superspeed for stealth and ease of travel, and because I already took hasten. Flying in nova is a bit slow, and I normally don't want to shift just to start traveling, but I use it when I want to AFK travel. TP can be a bother for short distances thanks to overshoot and correction.
Concealment was picked for places to put the LOTG recharge bonus.
I only use human form for the control powers, stygian circle, mire, and the occasional quasar. -
Quote:Let me tell you a little story about monkeys. More specifically, monkeys and bananas. Even more specifically, monkeys, bananas, and behavioral studies involving high pressure water cannons.This is the sort of thing I mean.
I know that it's 'Always been done that way'. Does that mean it's right?
A bunch of scientists did this one day, probably because they were bored. They put four monkeys in a room and fed them something a lot like dog food. It was everything the monkeys needed to survive, it just didn't taste very good. After a while, the scientists put a basket of bananas in the center of this room.
The catch was, as soon as one monkey went to get a banana, the others would get sprayed with very high pressure, painful streams of water. What the monkeys figured out was simple: Stop the other monkeys from getting bananas. As a result, the monkeys that were getting sprayed beat the crap out of the monkey trying to get a banana until he stopped. This pattern continued for a few weeks while the scientists kept placing fresh bananas in the room. One monkey would try to get a banana, and the others would stop him to save themselves from the water.
Eventually, all the monkeys stopped going after the bananas, despite how many fresh batches there were. At this point, the scientists (still bored) took one monkey out of the cage and replaced it with a new monkey. This monkey instinctively went for the bananas and, even though they weren't being sprayed with water, the other three monkeys started beating him up. The new monkey tried to get a banana a few more times, each time getting beat up, until a week later when he stopped trying.
Then another "water monkey" was taken out and replaced with a second new monkey. This new monkey tried to get a banana and was stopped by all three other monkeys. This included the one who had never been sprayed with water. The same pattern followed as more monkeys were replaced, one at a time, until the room was full of monkeys that had never been sprayed. Even more could be replaced, and generations later, still no monkey would eat a banana.
What was the point of all this? Well, with people gathering at the trainer, maybe there was a reason at first, maybe not, but regardless, that's what we've always done. And we're just a bunch of monkeys. -
Quote:Five or more masterminds means you should be moving in five or more directions.How about this situation: teams with 5 or more masterminds. I would definitely consider dismissing one or two first tiers to reduce constricting tunnels and such. I would want one tier one to fill the hall/tunnel with a nice cone of full-auto laser light show.
The caves have different paths, just fan out a bit. -
Anyone else find it ironic how I like using the poison gas trap on nazis?
Or is ironic not the word I'm looking for? Perhaps something along the lines of "poetic justice" is more appropriate. -
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Don't forget the zone debt protection during an invasion. No reason to care that you're defeated.
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I know the proc I have in my Assbot works because I monitor the boost up icon that shows up (and quite often).
It is important to note that a proc like lady gray, because it's a defense debuff set, will only have a chance to proc on the attacks that have a defense debuff in them. That means it will proc much less often than you would expect. -
It seems my motives were completely misinterpreted. This is mostly my fault for not being as clear as I could be.
I was not suggesting the "challenge" with the idea that a kheldian could keep up with a scrapper.
I was not suggesting the challenge to try to prove that anything needed to be changed.
My idea came to me because there was an analysis that was being attempted to figure out how much DPS a kheldian could produce. But the math was too complicated, what with specific attack chains and time to shift and all that figured into it.
The only way to get a good analysis, in my opinion, was to do it comparatively. This requires a large sample size and a reliable test metric. Thus the idea of using +0/x8 on five separate maps. We know how much DPS a scrapper puts out. If we had a comparative time to complete, we could assume a proportional amount of DPS that is being achieved. -
Quote:Oh no, it'll be full customization.I sincerely hope it's only minimal FX. I don't think I can stand neon pink SS.
I also agree with the dislike of ice armor spamming. I'll be at Went's and someone will throw ice armor on me.
Some people will superspeed as neon pink with bright green hastened hands. Others will turn the effects off. -
Hey, we can do those too, but the primary discussion here seems to be comparing kheldians to scrappers.
Might as well do this same challenge with blasters, tanks, corruptors, masterminds, dominators, stalkers, VEATs...
EDIT: My point was, it's rather obvious that a defender's goal is not DPS. A kheldian, while not pigeon-holed, is oft portrayed as having the goal of DPS. -
Fine. Fine fine fine. No amount of calculation or debate is ever going to resolve anything here. I propose a practical test. A challenge, if you will.
Let's find the best scrapper/brute player out there. Someone with the inf to purple out a character. He also has to be indisputably proficient with his powers, knowledgeable about how to use them most effectively, familiar with the best attack chains, etc. For this I nominate Bill Z Bubba.
Then we need to find the best warshade out there. Perhaps the best two, one all-human and one shifter. Same stipulations as the scrapper/brute case. I'm not sure who'd be best here, but I'd imagine AlienOne could fill the all human warshade case and either Princess or LordXenite for the TriForm.
Finally, we have to find the best two peacebringers, one all-human and one TriForm.
Now we get them all into an AE arc two at a time. Five missions set at +0x8 with normal spawns, all in the same outdoor city map. You know the one I'm talking about; I don't know its name. You can have the scrapper/brute run down one lane and the kheldian down the other, killing everything along the way. Referees should be present to record time. First mission against council, then freaks, then CoT, then Carnies, then Malta. Compare the times and we'll get a practical comparison of how much DPS a kheldian can pump out.
If a kheldian comes out to be 75% as effective as the scrapper/brute, I'd call it a worthwhile trade off to have the capabilities that it has.
For the record, I'm still in the "it's more important to have fun than big orange numbers" camp. -
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Quote:Well, it's not a "click and I go boom" power. The self destruct is really only triggered by defeat, like the nemesis bots. This isn't a clone of the cyborg pack power that says "I'm going to kill myself to make you die." It's a "If you kill me, it's going to hurt."But if you self destruct all the time, you would never be defeated. What is the risk? You jump into the middle of a mob, stab yourself in the face and they all die.
Then you have the whole sucide bomber theme going. Can you say BAD PR?
Seriouslly though. I don think I would play it. But the general concept sounds like it would work. -
Quote:This. I want my Assbot to inspire more fear! And make a bigger mess of the black market when I walk by.This is also the reason we have such small Assault Bots...
-grumbles- I want something HVAS size! Just for looks!
THHHHHIIIIIIISSSSS!!!!!! -
Quote:You mean how no one likes a stormy using gale/hurricane/tornado? Yeah, I don't want that to happen to my warshade. I especially don't want toggle team buffs that only work in human form. "Why did you go dwarf?! I lost my softcap!!!!!" No thank you.If however, in order to passively contribute to a team, a Kheldian will be required to take certain powers and those powers would work only in Human-form for example, this may eventually restrict Kheldian gameplay, and that's what I was cautioning against in my previous post.
I was more leaning to passive contribution like modifying the inherent, or more clicky team buffs. Clicky teambuffs includes modifying powers to the point of severely violating cottage rules, so that pretty much leaves the inherent in my eyes. -
Quote:Please, just read this. You'll thank me later. And of course, you'll thank Plasma for his excellent guide.so i'm working (very very very hard) on getting my first warshade ^_^ (currently my hero is lvl 30 (20 more lvls till warshade !!!! =o )
and i was just looking at the warshade stuff... looks like 25 powers in total to unlock which means that without powerpools i can unlock ALL the powers...
is this wise? or should i get powerpools? and if so, which ones? -
Quote:You'll have to forgive me, but aside from one single target heal, a -recharge debuffs to sort of keep the team alive, and decent leadership pool modifiers, I'm not really seeing what us Kheldians give back to the team. As far as blasting/controlling/tanking, even in our impressive combination of roles, isn't so much "giving back" to the team as it is "doing our part."Well, we already do, but since VEATs do it passively, it may be considered a worthy design goal to add to Kheldians. However, do not be surprised if granting Kheldians a passive way to contribute to a team may actually end up in flames because Kheldian players will now be required to take certain powers and use them in certain ways and anything other than adhering to these hard and fast rules will cause some teammates to pester the Kheldian in question claiming that the 'squid' isn't fulfilling its intended "role".



I don't know about you, but I'd like to see our inherent work both ways, i.e. the PB gets a damage bonus for a tank and gives the same damage bonus back, while a warshade receives a resistance bonus and gives the same back. Perhaps cut the benefit to as low as half for each. -
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Quote:None of this really surprises me, but I'm still very interested to see the numbers. Will you be able to provide comparable analysis from the blaster/tank side of things?Analysis is still ongoing, but early results are showing that being locked in dwarf against a single target is an enormous disadvantage for a Kheld - we're talking about a literal order of magnitude drop in DPS, and that's before considering what it does to the poor guy's ability to recover post fight. Peacebringers have an edge on surviving this situation, and Warshades have an edge on damage, but both are pretty thoroughly miserable here. I would suggest that any future analysis of Kheld performance and play experience place a strong emphasis on this situation, as it's the expected survival mode for the AT, but on a build that isn't structured around it can instead be a long, painful death sentence. It sounds wacky, but when you count up the total opportunity cost, Dwarf might be worse DPS than Hibernate.
On the bright side, under optimal conditions, Novas have impressive AoE DPS. Surprising no one.
And on the third hand, while pet damage analysis is notoriously fickle, I think the worst thing to happen to Warshades in recent memory might be the change where pet attack recharge times were locked in. Particularly on high-recharge power builds.
I'm going to say that if the Nova proves to be 75% of an equal budget blaster, that's more than enough for me. The same is true for the dwarf/tank comparison. -
A thought popped into my head today about Kheldians while reading LX's thread about proposed alterations to Peacebringers.
Now, this most likely violates the ambiguous cottage rule, but what would you think if the human form shields offered defense instead of resistance?
As it stands, you could stay human with three toggles for resistance, adding up to significant endurance drain, or go dwarf for even better resistance and mez protection, all at virtually no endurance cost. As far as survivabilty is concerned, the decision is a no-brainer. Having defense based shields would offer even more versatility to Kheldians.
Obviously to account for balance the shields would offer half the defense that they currently offer in resistance, but is that enough of a reduction? There is a lot of defense available through IOs, which could easily lead to softcapped human builds... On second thought, as I'm typing this I realize it's probably a terrible suggestion. But what do you think?
I just thought of something else though: Even with softcapped defense, all it takes is one lucky mez to die. Thanks to suppression, the defense powers no longer add anything while mezzed, and with no protection, this situation wouldn't be uncommon. Maybe it's not too overpowered. -
Quote:I'm with the Princess here. I'll gladly take any numbers you can come up with, even if it's straight SO build to SO build. Just don't compare an IO'd nova form to a SO'd blaster (obviously).I have no idea how you would get the pet numbers, but the rest of the numbers I would happily take.
You are right however that the problem becomes what happens when you drop out of Nova and start fighting in Dwarf, but even then I would do the following:
Compare Nova to a blaster
Compare Dwarf with pets and lots of foes to a scrapper
Compare Dwarf without pets or foes to a tanker
Each situation occurs at different times for different people, but I would definately think the Warshade would come out very well under every situation bar tanking (Especially when working out for good recharge).
I also agree with the three comparative cases she presented, although Dwarf with pets and whatnot could be very hard to analyze with any amount of accuracy.
I would suggest comparing a high recharge nova to a high recharge AoE blaster. Then, stick with that same high recharge WS when going to dwarf, and compare it to something like a SS tank who would also be built for high recharge. -


