Random thought for Kheldian power alterations.


Dechs Kaison

 

Posted

A thought popped into my head today about Kheldians while reading LX's thread about proposed alterations to Peacebringers.

Now, this most likely violates the ambiguous cottage rule, but what would you think if the human form shields offered defense instead of resistance?

As it stands, you could stay human with three toggles for resistance, adding up to significant endurance drain, or go dwarf for even better resistance and mez protection, all at virtually no endurance cost. As far as survivabilty is concerned, the decision is a no-brainer. Having defense based shields would offer even more versatility to Kheldians.

Obviously to account for balance the shields would offer half the defense that they currently offer in resistance, but is that enough of a reduction? There is a lot of defense available through IOs, which could easily lead to softcapped human builds... On second thought, as I'm typing this I realize it's probably a terrible suggestion. But what do you think?

I just thought of something else though: Even with softcapped defense, all it takes is one lucky mez to die. Thanks to suppression, the defense powers no longer add anything while mezzed, and with no protection, this situation wouldn't be uncommon. Maybe it's not too overpowered.


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Posted

This is an interesting idea, however, I think that PB's would be quite annoyed because Warshade would gain your defense-shields plus Eclipse which may as well mean they're nearly invulnerable to almost anything because with defense shields a lot of mezzing attacks will miss, and what doesn't miss will be resisted, and what's not resisted can be wiped clean by smart use of Stygian Circle and/or the life-drain attack.

If however the Kheldians shields offered a +Def bonus to teammates around a Kheldian, now that I'd embrace even though I never take these shields on any of my Kheldians.


I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post
If however the Kheldians shields offered a +Def bonus to teammates around a Kheldian, now that I'd embrace even though I never take these shields on any of my Kheldians.
Hrm, I kind of like this more! It'd be nice if Kheldians gave back to a team.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Hrm, I kind of like this more! It'd be nice if Kheldians gave back to a team.
Well, we already do, but since VEATs do it passively, it may be considered a worthy design goal to add to Kheldians. However, do not be surprised if granting Kheldians a passive way to contribute to a team may actually end up in flames because Kheldian players will now be required to take certain powers and use them in certain ways and anything other than adhering to these hard and fast rules will cause some teammates to pester the Kheldian in question claiming that the 'squid' isn't fulfilling its intended "role".


I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) Augmenting Peacebringers The Umbra Illuminati

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post
Well, we already do, but since VEATs do it passively, it may be considered a worthy design goal to add to Kheldians. However, do not be surprised if granting Kheldians a passive way to contribute to a team may actually end up in flames because Kheldian players will now be required to take certain powers and use them in certain ways and anything other than adhering to these hard and fast rules will cause some teammates to pester the Kheldian in question claiming that the 'squid' isn't fulfilling its intended "role".
You'll have to forgive me, but aside from one single target heal, a -recharge debuffs to sort of keep the team alive, and decent leadership pool modifiers, I'm not really seeing what us Kheldians give back to the team. As far as blasting/controlling/tanking, even in our impressive combination of roles, isn't so much "giving back" to the team as it is "doing our part."

I don't know about you, but I'd like to see our inherent work both ways, i.e. the PB gets a damage bonus for a tank and gives the same damage bonus back, while a warshade receives a resistance bonus and gives the same back. Perhaps cut the benefit to as low as half for each.


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Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
...I'm not really seeing what us Kheldians give back to the team. As far as blasting/controlling/tanking, even in our impressive combination of roles, isn't so much "giving back" to the team as it is "doing our part."
Essentially you're right, however, seeing as Kheldians can change roles on demand and pack a lot of mitigation that supplements what most teams pack, we're giving quite a bit in my opinion, although more actively than passively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I don't know about you, but I'd like to see our inherent work both ways, i.e. the PB gets a damage bonus for a tank and gives the same damage bonus back, while a warshade receives a resistance bonus and gives the same back. Perhaps cut the benefit to as low as half for each.
But see, that's where there's a difference, and a huge difference it is. If the Kheldian inherent power is modified to buff the team in return for the boosts the team grants the Kheldian, that would be awesome simply because every Kheldian no matter the build or playstyle has their inherent power!

If however, in order to passively contribute to a team, a Kheldian will be required to take certain powers and those powers would work only in Human-form for example, this may eventually restrict Kheldian gameplay, and that's what I was cautioning against in my previous post.

I was sort-of playing Devils' Advocate to my own suggestion, wasn't I?


I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) Augmenting Peacebringers The Umbra Illuminati

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post
If however, in order to passively contribute to a team, a Kheldian will be required to take certain powers and those powers would work only in Human-form for example, this may eventually restrict Kheldian gameplay, and that's what I was cautioning against in my previous post.
You mean how no one likes a stormy using gale/hurricane/tornado? Yeah, I don't want that to happen to my warshade. I especially don't want toggle team buffs that only work in human form. "Why did you go dwarf?! I lost my softcap!!!!!" No thank you.

I was more leaning to passive contribution like modifying the inherent, or more clicky team buffs. Clicky teambuffs includes modifying powers to the point of severely violating cottage rules, so that pretty much leaves the inherent in my eyes.


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Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
You mean how no one likes a stormy using gale/hurricane/tornado? Yeah, I don't want that to happen to my warshade. I especially don't want toggle team buffs that only work in human form. "Why did you go dwarf?! I lost my softcap!!!!!" No thank you.
Yeah, but even worse... imagine a VEAT without their "Leadership" buffs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I was more leaning to passive contribution like modifying the inherent, or more clicky team buffs.
You know, at one time, I was actually thinking about utilizing the Kheldian forms to grant team-buffs... something like Nova would grant teammates around it a +Def bonus and Dwarf would grant an automatic -Threat;+Recovery bonus to any ranged-AT character... stuff like that.


I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) Augmenting Peacebringers The Umbra Illuminati

 

Posted

The way I see it, the balance factor for Human Form shields being weaker than Dwarf protection is a) you can fire ranged attacks in Human Form, and b) you have to retoggle if you form shift. So except for the Smash/Lethal shield (or any one of them, which you can turn on as you form shift) you aren't really getting the full efficiency out of them unless you are a Human Form only Kheld. And if you're Human Form only, you don't HAVE Dwarf Form.

The only real advantage I see in it is that you can't be mezzed by attacks that miss, so there would be some mezz protection that Khelds lack in Human form. But you WILL be hit, and so you would be mezzed, and it would likely be randomly, when you can't prepare for it. So I don't think in the end it would really be an advantage.

I wouldn't really oppose it, but it is as it is, and I think it works fine as it is. It feels somewhat different from my experience with Force Fields, but then there is a heal, as well. The devs may be somewhat less inclined to combine Def with healing as to combing Res with healing. (Because it counters the big weakness of Defense, that you can be hit hard randomly for a lot of damage)


 

Posted

Thematically, I like Resistance better (a sort of sturdy toughness instead of attacks just missing you altogether), but Defense seems to be better supported and more effective in the game (plus you can slot LotG +Rchgs in Defense ) Resistances should be beefed up a bit, IMHO

However, fx-wise, I also think Bubbles are more appropriate looking for Defense than Resistance, so I wish the Kheld Shields were not Bubbles and instead just Auras. Heck, call them Auras (Thermal Aura, Quantum Aura...)

And once again, I'm in complete agreement about the Kheld inherent boosting team stats...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordXenite View Post
This is an interesting idea, however, I think that PB's would be quite annoyed because Warshade would gain your defense-shields plus Eclipse which may as well mean they're nearly invulnerable to almost anything because with defense shields a lot of mezzing attacks will miss, and what doesn't miss will be resisted, and what's not resisted can be wiped clean by smart use of Stygian Circle and/or the life-drain attack.
This

Defence cap + saturated Eclipse means a human only warshade would have 95% protection to all mez (The only achilles heel really) and would take less than 1% of any incoming damage so would be massively overpowered, and sadly just increase the gap between them and PB's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
I don't know about you, but I'd like to see our inherent work both ways, i.e. the PB gets a damage bonus for a tank and gives the same damage bonus back, while a warshade receives a resistance bonus and gives the same back. Perhaps cut the benefit to as low as half for each.
I would do it slightly different and have PB's give back what they get and Warshades give the opposite, which is in line with the way the inherants are different at the moment and means that both AT's would be giving the team the same bonus (IE: A tank gives a PB damage and a WS resistance, but both give damage back to the tank), so there would be no teams looking for a PB over a WS (Or vice versa) just because the leader wanted a certain bonus.

I don't think the bonus numbers need changing either really, giving a tank 10% more resistance isn't really overpowered* considering buffs like the magic pack.

*I actually think any idea like this would be done more to make Kheldians popular than for balance issues, because I don't think we are performing anywhere near as badly as percieved.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro View Post
However, fx-wise, I also think Bubbles are more appropriate looking for Defense than Resistance, so I wish the Kheld Shields were not Bubbles and instead just Auras. Heck, call them Auras (Thermal Aura, Quantum Aura...)
Agreed! I don't like the way the bubbles look anyway.


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Posted

Here's how Castle could recode the Kheldian inherent power to be more team friendly:

Take the current effects and ... chop them in half ... and then apply them twice.

Half of the effect is a large radius PBAoE team effect. This boosts the Kheldian plus all of your teammates within range. If a teammate is within your PBAoE radius, they "fuel" the buff for you and you in turn give back to them. This half of the effect is ALWAYS ON ... even when in Nova and Dwarf forms.

The other half of the effect is self only. This half of the effect is only on when you're in human form. Since the only one who "loses" the effect when you're out of human form is yourself, there is no whining from teammates to "get back in human form so I can get your buffs!" dynamic constricting how Kheldian characters are played.

Power levels remain exactly where they already are ... but half the benefit we currently get remains available in forms *and* is shared with the team.

S imple
E asy
E ffective

Not being done ...


It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

 

Posted

Why go backwards to give human only builds a bigger buff than forms?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
Here's how Castle could recode the Kheldian inherent power to be more team friendly:

Take the current effects and ... chop them in half ... and then apply them twice.

Half of the effect is a large radius PBAoE team effect. This boosts the Kheldian plus all of your teammates within range. If a teammate is within your PBAoE radius, they "fuel" the buff for you and you in turn give back to them. This half of the effect is ALWAYS ON ... even when in Nova and Dwarf forms.

The other half of the effect is self only. This half of the effect is only on when you're in human form. Since the only one who "loses" the effect when you're out of human form is yourself, there is no whining from teammates to "get back in human form so I can get your buffs!" dynamic constricting how Kheldian characters are played.

Power levels remain exactly where they already are ... but half the benefit we currently get remains available in forms *and* is shared with the team.

S imple
E asy
E ffective

Not being done ...
Not sure why the Kheldian only get's its 'half-boost' when in Human Form. That's how it used to be. Nah, any boost at all applies to all Forms. Also, why halve the values. A PB giving a Scrapper an extra 10% resistance isn't that much, but enough to perhaps have scrappers enjoy them being on the team. Halving that to 5% doesn't seem enough... Of course, it's better than what the Scrappers gets now (ie, Nothing, Zilch, Nada...)