Dechs Kaison

I have not called him a bad player. I stated that anyone playing a kheldian the same way they play a scrapper is doing it wrong. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. A kheldian is simply not a scrapper.

My first reply to Mod Noc was constructive criticism aimed at helping someone avoid a problem they are experiencing. I made no initial mention of his apparent laziness until he became obstinate and refused to accept that his strategy might be the source of his problems.

Incorrect. I stated that if you (being the generic 'you') play a kheldian the same way you (same generic 'you') play a scrapper, you're doing it wrong. I made no assumptions about your (no longer generic, this time I mean you, Mod Noc, because I haven't prefaced this statement with if) playstyle.

Incorrect again. I stated that the power is not the root cause of the mob being spread out, but it's (debatable improper) use is.

I'll tell you what's bad form. Bad form is coming into a discussion with a whiny suggestion and stating that you are too lazy to read through the rest of the discussion where your suggestion has already been discussed.

I assure you that the power is not spreading out the mob.

You are.

Your experience differs from mine. I never see negative comments; sometimes I'm even thanked for my use of Solar Flare.

It helps to think of it like a knockback power that does damage, not as a run into the middle of the mob and smash power. If you're playing your Kheldian like a brute/scrapper/tank, you're doing it wrong.

This I can explain. Queue up a power well out of range of a mob so you don't actually execute the power. Now press Tab. You'll notice the queued power is flushed from the queue because a new target has been selected.

To-may-toe, to-mah-toe. I call this a bad player.

I'm a good player on my tank or my warshade. I'm a terrible player on a brute or a scrapper.

But then who screwed the stork?

I have a comment about this. As a Dark Armor tank, I often "stealth" to the end of the mission because of the in-set stealth power.



I later realized that this stealth power is often negated by leaving the damage aura on while you "stealth" through the middle of a mob.

Oops.

This is stupid. Only one of these is a benefit that KD has over KB, and it's a questionable one at that. I see it as a downside that I cannot reposition mobs with KD. The other three points are things that KB does better.

There are many problems with approaching things like this.

What about the guy who likes things doing knockback? You've now taken that away from him, and he has to slot for KB if he wants it, which takes away from his current 1ACC 3DAM 1END 1RECH slotting. Or even if you're frankenslotting, that's one less slot you can use for procs or maximum enhancement values. And forget about getting the sixth set bonus from melee PBAoE sets. The same is true for any power that does knockback right now, not just solar flare.

There are also players who like knockback and slot for knockback who would also incapable of doing what they do now. You would reduce the knockback after enhancement and they can't use the powers as they used to.

Don't forget that high level mobs resist knockback. Sometimes you need a lot of knockback just to do knockdown.

Dwarf Flare and Footstomp do KD only. I believe this is because they don't have a set of ranged attacks like the human PB does. If footstomp or dwarf flare caused knockback, you would have to run to your target. Potentially you could be immobilized or slowed and unable to keep hitting them. When in human form, you can use ranged attacks on the foes that get knocked back. This is part of the intelligent strategy I've been talking about. You have melee powers and ranged powers. 2/3s of your melee damage attacks knock them back. I'd imagine it was designed that way so you could make use of your ranged attacks until they get back to you.

D'oh! I can't believe I missed that. Thanks.

I guess I'll take the end reduc out of ice patch, but I'm not willing to lose any defense or my accuracy bonuses. I agree that the numina's might be overkill, but I'm not worried about the cost. I've got thousands of merits saved up because it took me so long to decide on a next tanker.

Thanks for the input.

Hold on there. No one ever said they needed to be defeated to manage aggro. This is just one extra tool in the arsenal. My Dark Armor tank took Soul Transfer, and as you can see in my video, I have no problems handling +4/x8 Malta without it. I don't care how tough the FA tank is, I'd still suggest fitting Rise of the Phoenix in the build.

I have outlasted and outaggroed every type of tanker in the game. I also have to be killed twice before anything can hurt my team.

I'm not aiming for defeat. I take these powers because despite how well I play or how well I build, fecal matter happens. When it does, I like to be able to get back up without missing a beat.

What do you think? Where can I optimize?

EDIT: Also, can you tell me about ice patch? How well does it work? I've heard the target cap is 5... or was that burn and ice patch is ten... do the foes already on their butts count towards the target cap? How, mechanically, does the power work? Does it pulse every second or something like that and just hit the 10 "closest" enemies?

The aura's taunt does not stack. It merely refreshes every tick.

Few people realize, however, that threat is a function of taunt magnitude as well as taunt duration remaining. The RttC taunt is weaker by two metrics.

Willpower tanks are by no means gimped when it comes to holding aggro. Streetlight is correct that if all other things are equal (including player skill) the willpower tank will not have aggro, but who cares? Few damn teams need a tank, let alone a second one, and the willpower tank played well will be just as good as any other tank played with similar skill.

No no no, you're coming at this from the wrong angle.

It's "Noble Savage F'tang!"

Fixed.

I've said this before: I fail when I doubt myself; I'm defeated when I become arrogant.

The mobs hit and direction they are flung is a function of where everything was the instant the power begins activating. Even if something moved during the short animation, it would still be affected as if it hadn't.

I know this is true because I've activated things like Combustion in the middle of a jump, landing yards from all the people that it hit when the three second animation finally ended.

If the player is mobile during a fight and not mindlessly following and button mashing, that player will find himself able to activate this power on the fringe of the mob, knocking them into walls or corners or wherever he damn well pleases.

Surviving is not tanking. A PB has no taunt aura and no taunt component in its attacks. Without taking provoke from the pool powers, there is no way a PB can hold aggro. Scrappers and blasters will both outdamage you, thus generate more threat and steal your aggro. Defenders will be landing powerful debuffs that up their threat generation. Controllers have debuffs, status effects, and heavy containment damage to skyrocket threat.

Without provoke, no PB in human form is a tank. Even with it, they are barely so.

Again, knock them into a wall or a corner. They may now be flopped repeatedly until defeated by simply using the mechanics of the game intelligently.

I'd like to point out that I never claimed there were no downsides. You, however, put forth downsides that only exist because of negligent, ignorant and incompetent players. It is those perceived downsides which I have refuted.

This is why I picked up [Salt Crystals] on my Dark Armor tank. I have been able to jump to the new mob, put it to sleep, jump back and never lose the aggro. As soon as the first group is manageable, I jump to the sleeping group again and start picking up the new aggro.

Imagine that, a tool used improperly can cause damage. I had no idea the scissors would cut my hand! They're meant for paper!

If you're in human form, you're not there to tank.

I didn't realize Solar Flare recharged fast enough to keep mobs flopping in place and never get up.

Contrary to common belief, you don't need Essence of the Earth inspirations to take down the Hamidon on a Master run, but they certainly help.

The most important thing is to not take out the pylons until the only thing left is the Hamidon Nucleus. While the pylons are up, the Hami nucleus aggro range is severely reduced.

I usually do the mission without deaths by accident. The usual thing to do is aggro the Rikti around the pylons and drag them across the hami. This sets up a lot of chaos and you can usually take out the yellow mitos before they realize you're there since they stay aggro'd on the Rikti quite a while. This is risky unless the guy doing the aggro-ing has a fast recharging self heal.

If you cannot do the above or don't want to risk it, then I suggest killing all the rikti before doing anything. Then, have whatever melee characters you have attack the yellow mitos one at a time. A backup healer or EoEs will make this easy.

The blues... usually never do enough damage to ever worry about. Have your ranged teammates shoot them from outside the goo, concentrating on one at a time. This step is hardly ever a problem.

The greens can be ugly if you don't have a lot of control. Again, focus on one mito at a time and you should be fine. Stay at as large of a distance as you can. If the melee guys overshoot they might aggro the Hami Nucleus, in which case it's time to run. Typically, brutes/tanks/scrappers have access to one hold that doesn't recharge fast. Frontload the holds and these shouldn't be a problem.

Now go take down all the pylons.

The nucleus hits hard with an AoE that has a DoT, so this part is dangerous. If you have a tank with self heals or high regen or a few EoEs, this is a lot easier. Let him hold the aggro from range while your teammates safely smash hami. Hami's also only an EB, and I have seen him held, so this could be a viable strategy on a control heavy team.

I've gotta call this out. How is "You have to kill me twice!" a statement of weak nature?