Dechs Kaison

Kheldians just need bloody slots, anywhere they can get them. Specifically, Stygian Circle could use endurance reduction and recharge in a single slot.

If these worked like set IO enhancement values (more total enhancement from more aspects), it would be a fantastic opportunity for anyone slot hungry to really get some great performance out of characters. With two acc/dmg/end/rech and another two dmg/end/rech you're pretty much at the ED cap for three attributes, plus enough accuracy to hit even cons, all in four slots. Not only that, multi aspect IOs are amazingly beneficial when exemplaring.

The point I keep coming back to is that a Dark Melee/Ninjitsu scrapper (ignore for a moment that it doesn't exist, assume a straight port) of the same slotting and level would be able to do the same thing better.

Is that reason enough to ban stalkers from teams? Hell no.

The difference is marginal, but it is also undeniable. I don't care that your stalker or any stalker does or does not do something another AT can or cannot do. I care that stalkers, as a whole, do not get the damage they deserve for the survivability that they sacrificed.

Kheldians.

EDIT: I didn't see that these would work like set IOs in the sense that multi-aspect set IOs have more total enhancement than a common of the same level.

I'm all for more options, but this seems like the most difficult way to go about getting them.

I do like it as an extra influence sink.

I did rad/nrg, colored blasts/fists to look like a PB. I liked the concept, but the performance was a lot better on the blaster.

See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

The Dark Armor tank in my video is only a 300 million inf budget. Elec has about 10% more resist at the ED cap for S/L. Dark has a 8% defense advantage. Considering that 2% res = 1% def, I think Dark wins that trade.

I do like how Elec has endurance sapping abilities. I still think Dark has the better control powers. Additionally, I value a self rez (especially one that comes with a mag 30 autohit stun) over a "true godmode" that has a horrendous crash.

I know where you can find out. Check out the survivability analysis tool in my signature. You can add your own sheets to do a comparison for all damage types between those two. There's even a few sheets on there already for "top end" WP builds.

I uh... I guess I don't know. I think I took something from your list that you didn't intend to be read. Either way, I'm sorry for wasting a great deal of time talking in circles.

It's clear we agree on most things, especially that you (generic you this time) shouldn't exclude any AT.

I'm right there with you. I love the concept behind them, and I've given many stalkers very serious attempts, the most noteworthy were a claws/nin, elec/EA, and NB/dark. I've done everything I could to make them powerful, survivable, and enjoyable. I've failed at all three goals on all accounts.

I just can't enjoy an AT that, despite best efforts, will not compare to the same effort given a very similar AT.

Can't argue with that.

I think I'm not being clear, but it was unintentional.

I agree with this statement. What I was trying to say is that there are cases where the other AT (in this case, Corruptor) where the answer is always Corruptor. Specifically, when you're looking for damage.

This disparity I'm trying to make painfully obvious is that there are no cases where Stalker beats Scrapper when a team is looking for anything.

This is getting off topic, but I always figure that when comparing two ATs, you must assume all other things are equal: Budget, player ability, powersets. Otherwise it's not a meaningful comparison at all.

I don't think that's what he meant when he said:

Emphasis mine. He's not saying that the AT is ok. He said it's as strong as they're going to make them, but they still have problems.

Does the team have an excess of control, several taunting characters already, or any other factors that may reduce the brute's ability to do damage by hindering fury gain? The scrapper becomes the clear choice.

I had an opinion and I decided to voice it. I did not feel your admission of similarity was adequate.

There are clear cases where one AT in your list is a better choice than the other. There are not any clear cases where a stalker is a better choice than the scrapper.

They also have the best power in the game: Eclipse.

And two versions of sunless mire.

And multiple damage dealing pets.

And a nuke.

And a half nuke that also stuns.

And an amazing heal/endurance recovery tool.

And an excess of PURPLE FLUFFY DOOM!!!

I'll vote for warshades too. *scrolls up* Oh, I already did.

Well I'll pretend I'm a democrat and vote for them again.

Good catch. The point still stands; every brute still has punchvoke, and thus controls aggro better than the comparable scrapper.

Yes. Almost any brute has a taunt aura. All brutes have punchvoke. When the team doesn't have some one to take that role, I'd want the brute. But if there's already a taunt aura on the team, I believe the scrapper would be the best performer.

I understand, I meant that as more of a generic 'you' here. I'm sorry for the poor wording.

My answer, as stated before, is the same as yours. I don't care who or what's on the team. I've taken petless MMs and even pure "healers" for crying out loud. A stalker is just dandy.

I just took exception to your list and its comparison to the OP's question. With everything in your list, a clear case can be made for either choice depending on situation.

For all of these, however, I can ask "What does the team need?" as a clarification.

If the team needs someone to soak damage, the best option is a tank, but a brute is clearly better when you need more damage.

I can do this for the rest of your list, but when you get to "stalker or scrapper" there is no clarification needed. They both serve the purpose of "resilient damage dealer." The scrapper survives better and deals sustained damage better.

When you go with the argument of "but the stalker does better burst damage," we've already talked about how debatable that is. Depending on your burst window, the scrapper wins in the majority of cases. Aside from all that, where is that single target burst damage needed? Where is it even beneficial?

You either get the chance to stun yourself, or nothing at all. Depending on whether the fix was implemented in Nova.

How about you go back to what started all of this? Let me help you: It was a question of which is better. All analysis points to a scrapper.

We're not debating which is acceptable. I've never denied stalkers from my teams because I know full well they can do "good enough." The fact of the matter is that "good enough" is very clearly not "better" in any way.

I don't know if I'd go that far with it. If someone else revives you, you still died.

I guess the same could be said for the fire tanker ... but ... the whole point of the Phoenix thing is that he doesn't really die.

I realize "hardcore" is a carryover from some other Spanish devil game we're not allowed to name on the forums, and in that game there were no revive abilities of any kind. Here, there are, so you have to adapt.

The simplest adaptation is obviously if you are ever defeated, the character is dead. I just think that unfairly favors certain powersets and especially certain archetypes. The more I think about it, if it were up to me, I'd say that as long as you don't need to use a wakie or the hospital (i.e. nothing "unnatural" revived you), then you didn't "die."

Because, if you were a scrapper, you would require less red inspirations to do the same damage and you would one shot yellow mitos more often.

You would also survive more, which in turn gives you more damage. Defeated characters don't do much in the way of damage.

I tried educating, you refused to listen and responded only with hyperbole. I treat willful ignorance with very little compassion.