Dahjee
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I think the devs are still getting over the last time they gave in to whiners' demands. Makes sense to avoid making the same mistake twice don't you think?
Keep in mind that the devs have commented on pvp. (Most of these "very well constructed criticisms" came after)
Ignoring these comments, being impatient with what is to come, and/or expecting only the changes you want to happen first... is what causes most to be so bitter about the devs when it comes to pvp in this game.
It's time to stop being blind to the changes that have occured. The excuses used by many to complain about I13 have been countered in many ways... yet bitterness prevents these changes from being acknowledged.
The quality of PvP in this game has improved over time in the last year or two. Sadly though... the quality of PvPers has gotten worse at a faster rate. Go figure.
P.S. LOL @ ur ragequit ultimatum and can you donate ur stuff to someone less fortunate? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Psyrene
You also didn't take into account how much DR cuts into +damage bonuses.....
Stop being afraid of the big bad DR monster.... and stop trying to make others feel your fear.
More.... is always more than more than less. -
In summary... choosing Fly without an escape power build will lead to repeated fail, no matter how well you slot. However choosing /Devices (or any other set that offers a free -fly/-jump power) and going SS/SJ is a complete waste of resources since you'll usually end up on the ground when attacking your grounded targets.
Here's an aerial build. One that incorporates TP and stealth instead of the standard Phase/Hib/PFF... It's an AERIAL build... meaning it's meant to stay in the air... so here's a few things to keep in mind if you choose to go this route:
Hovering negates KB for two reasons: 1. You can't KB a target thats already in the air to any meaningful effect. 2. The powers that can drop a hovering target also grants that target with max KB protection. There is little need for KB protection on airborne toons... and the reduced slot and power investment because of this is signifigant.
While SS/SJ can often lead to an epic run to base with peeps following your glowing trail of fail... TP with the slightest ammount of stealth can often be a chase-ender. You poof away with no trail to follow... Without Phase or Hib to rely on... TP is your only chance to aviod web'ers and ganks. (Note: You will die a lot getting the hang of this... but in the end you'll see what I mean)
TP/Hover/Fly is no different than SS/SJ in one respect. You keep moving. Just for the heck of it you TP from here to there and to there an back. Doing so will tire most attackers from even attempting to attack you. (Stalkers will persist as always though so be aware and keep moving) Also, range bonuses affect TP so those bonuses your attacks benefit from... your travel power does as well, lowering slot cost overall. Finally... the stealth proc in TP, unlike those placed in other forms of travel, persists for full duration from one use... as opposed to having to keep that power on all the time.
Last thing. You have web grenade and caltrops... so TP ganking is still a very valid tactic for you. Webbing foes first and TP'ing them into dumpsters and wading pools, stairwells and pillboxes equals certain death for most toons in a zone.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Technology Blaster
Primary Power Set: Assault Rifle
Secondary Power Set: Devices
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Munitions Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Burst -- GJ-Acc/Dmg(A), GJ-Dam%(3), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(37), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(37), AnWeak-%ToHit(37), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(39)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(5), GravAnch-Hold%(5), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(7), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(7)
Level 2: Slug -- GJ-Acc/Dmg(A), GJ-Acc/End/Rech(3), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(9), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Caltrops -- JavVoll-Dam/Rech(A), JavVoll-Dam/End/Rech(21)
Level 6: Hover -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 8: Beanbag -- Amaze-Acc/Rchg(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(36), Amaze-ToHitDeb%(40), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(40), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(40)
Level 10: Targeting Drone -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(23), GSFC-Build%(23), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(25), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(43)
Level 12: Sniper Rifle -- Apoc-Acc/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Apoc-Dam%(13), Apoc-Dmg(15), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(21), HO:Centri(31)
Level 14: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Smoke Grenade -- HO:Lyso(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(17), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(17), DarkWD-Slow%(19), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(19), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(31)
Level 18: Buckshot -- JavVoll-Acc/Dmg(A), JavVoll-Acc/End/Rech(36), JavVoll-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(46), JavVoll-Dam/End/Rech(46)
Level 20: Cloaking Device -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(27), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(29), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(29)
Level 24: Teleport Foe -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Fly -- Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(A), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(31), Winter-ResSlow(34)
Level 28: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Full Auto -- Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Ragnrk-Dmg(33), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(34), HO:Centri(34)
Level 35: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Teleport -- TSM'n-Rng(A), TSM'n-EndRdx(39), TSM'n-Stlth(39)
Level 41: Cryo Freeze Ray -- GladNet-Acc/Hold(A), GladNet-Acc/Rchg(42), GladNet-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42), GladNet-Rchg/Hold(42), Lock-Acc/Hold(43), Lock-%Hold(43)
Level 44: Sleep Grenade -- FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(A), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(45), FtnHyp-Plct%(45), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(45), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Surveillance -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(A), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(48), AnWeak-%ToHit(48), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(48), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 49: LRM Rocket -- JavVoll-Acc/Dmg(A), JavVoll-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(50), HO:Centri(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:- 28% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 28% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 28% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 28% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 28% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 28% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 28% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 28% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 3.13% Defense(Energy) (in PvP)
- 3.13% Defense(Negative) (in PvP)
- 1.56% Defense(Ranged) (in PvP)
- 2.25% Max End
- 92.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 71% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 47.5% Enhancement(Range) (in PvP)
- 2.5% Enhancement(Held)
- 16% FlySpeed
- 144.6 HP (12%) HitPoints
- 16% JumpHeight
- 16% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Confused) 10% (in PvP)
- MezResist(Held) 10% (in PvP)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 10% (in PvP)
- MezResist(Sleep) 10% (in PvP)
- MezResist(Stun) 14.4%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 10% (in PvP)
- 20% Perception
- 34.5% (0.58 End/sec) Recovery
- 66% (3.32 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 30% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
- 30% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
- 30% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
- 10.1% Resistance(Fire)
- 15.1% Resistance(Cold)
- 16% RunSpeed
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Again. This is an airborne zone build. It's not gonna wreck everyone, but it's sure to raise hell on a team versus most... and certain to survive if you're already used to actual evasion without crutch powers.
Bottomline: Yes, if you are going to use a power that keeps people from flying or jumping... you need to be above them and have good range. A jetpack won't cut it and eventually and often while hovering a web grenade will ruin you without TP. -
Quote:It's a shame -Perception powers don't see more use in PvP. For any toon that uses stealth or forms of it in their build, -Perception powers are a means to increasing one's stealth (and/or a teammate's stealth) past the cap. Most, if not all of these powers are unable to be slotted for range... however range bonuses (in PvP) will affect them and such a thing allows these powers to be far more effective than most people are aware.Originally Posted by Sneaky Speedie
1.I am wondering about Assault and Smoke Grenade. Can anyone think of something else I can put there besides these two less-than-spectacular powers?
It's not about whether you can be seen... it's about the distance you can be seen from, and how much you're able to reduce the ammount. I have alts that spend time keeping stacks of smoke grenade via Day Job, Temp, and SC Puchasable versions of the power to add to -percep powers they may already have. By itself, one application of smoke grenade may not seem to be an effective use, but grab a few extra versions to stack with it (and do so from 100ft or more away) and you will find your opponents attacking far less... due to the fact they cannot see you as you kite. -
Telling someone to reroll and "helping" them with their build ain't the same thang.
If you don't know how to add more +dam to an EM/Elec build just say so.
If you do... be helpful.
It's shameful that build help is available only if the set/set combo meets approval. -
I spent months reseaching and planning to play EQ2. I'd heard about it through a buddy at work and for weeks he told me about the original game and how awesome the sequel would be. I had never played an MMO game before and figured this would be a good first one to try.
I pre-ordered the game weeks before it's release, and in the late summer of 2004 I went to the store to pick it up. While I was at the store, I figured I would look around and see if anything else interested me. CoH did but I knew nothing about it. Having already purchased EQ2, I had some extra cash to spend and figured I'd grab CoH in case EQ2 got boring after a month or two... you know .. as something else to do.
That afternoon I spent about 2 hours installing EQ2, had to stop and go get a video card, install it... and finally logged in for my first MMo experience. I spent about an hour in character creation and going through the tutorial before deciding to go ahead an install and subscribe to CoH that evening as well.
3 hours later I logged into CoH for the first time. I haven't played EQ2 since that day. -
Quote:I'm not aware of any in Rad/ that would also add 20% range besides these two.Originally Posted by macskull
If you are going to take powers as set bonus mules, there are far better powers to waste picks on than Choking Cloud and EM Pulse.
Personally, I'd roll something dumb like an Ice/Rad or Ice/Ta, pick up a hold from epics... and use all 5 hold powers as mules, while also maxing out the 7.5 range bonuses in attacks and tossing a few Damage/Range HOs in there! -
Quote:You are entitled to see it any way you want. I've read and re-read this thread a few times in the last couple of years. I'm sure you have as well and I have no desire to be the one who challenges your fixed opinion.Originally Posted by Psyrene
No this thread was made to talk about specific things that were "broken" or very much desired by the entire PvP community. Not a gripe and moan because "AT (x) beat me and since I cant beat them they need to be nerfed".
I'm sure you're able to recognize and remember how many at the time of the OP were simply spitting ideas and feedback based on wishful thinking and personal preferences without having to worry about single-minded forum trolls. And of course you can remember when my two cents was equal to your two cents, and your two cents was equal to the next poster's two cents and so on when speaking of PvP changes... because all simply wanted the Devs to listen... period.
Maybe not though.
Maybe you are more familar with post I13 PvP and those who come to the boards to speak about getting wrecked by HD, DR, Mez changes or TS and seek a "justified" change. Perhaps you are only familiar with the now. Now... this thread (like many) cannot operate or function. You have allowed yourself to simplify matters down to your very own preferences and wishes for PvP and you choose not to acknowledge opinions based on experiences you haven't experiened in a long time... if ever.
If this is the case... You should know that it's not your fault. It's human nature. If this is the case... You should also know that you are part of the most significant change needed in the current state of PvP.
This thread was in question form... designed and stickied to attract various opinions... Not simply the majority of PvP forum posters like yourself Psy. Bickering because you happen to disagree with a poster's wants or wishes is a recent trend. A sad trend... detremental to the state of CoX PvP at it's very core. -
Quote:More +Rech and +Range in your build is the cure for that.Originally Posted by BrandX
That's the problem I found with my RAD/
+Range gives you a better (combat) perspective and more time to react/respond to mezzers.
+Rech allows you to drop it before they drop it for you... and have it ready when their mez wears off.
Hold powers = (relatively) cheap 10% range bonus and Rad/ has two of them. -
Quote:Isn't that what this whole thread is for?Originally Posted by Terror1
All im seeing in your list is "i got wrecked by this and this and this. THEY NEED TO CHANGE."
-
Quote:Gotta love the internet.Originally Posted by Psyrene
Your bad dom, has never killed any of my toons, tp'd them and dropped them but not ever killed by you and I have killed you on my psi/em, rad/psi def, cold/sonic def, and fire/em.
and I don't brag about getting zone kills, zone PvP is lullz at best.
Want the names too, because you must memorize every toon that ever kills you (and that would be a lot) because you always want people to post their toon names even though there is this cool feature call renames...
Yeah... gimme those names! lol please.
Hey you brought it up. "Omg I killed you in deh zone this one time ago!"
Btw... you actually remember killing my dom.... on not one but four toons? lol and you want me to believe that my dom gave you no reason to do so. Who are you trying to fool son? Yeah gimme those names.
Sad cause I don't even know who you are. I must be famous from the boards to you too? -
Quote:My Dom dies and it gets kills. It's provided billions worth of IOs for all my toons... you've died to my dom many times too... but it's ok if you didn't want to mention that part.Originally Posted by Psyrene
just continue tping people to zone ceilings because that really is the best thing you can do, I have killed you many times on your lol flying dom.
and like Optical Illusion said plz keep posting because it is most amusing.
Funny thing is I don't even know who you are, but I can guess that... like the others who brag about getting a zone kill... you were on your psy/em at the time... and you aren't willing to say the name of the toon that did it.
Making things personal to save face and avoid any points I make is nothing new to me here... and doing so is a lot more obvious than you all might think. -
Flatter me more with your ignorance please. (I'm not mad because I realize you are clueless)
oh and lrn2read better before you snippet. Context is your friend... or not. -
Quote:Why would it? It's a PvE game that introduced PvP content four issues after launch. I'm not really sure what you're gettting at. Would a Tire shop base it's success on the candy bars it decided to to start selling at the counter a year after openeing?Originally Posted by Lolblaws
I think it is safe to say that the success of this game has had nothing to do with their blunders in pvp. Feel free to counter though.
No. You said:Quote:Originally Posted by Lolblaws
Well now then you didn't read what I said. I said kill count AND continually seeking victory by killing the weakest links are the only goals in the pvp of this game.
I simply replied that you were stating the 'goal' of an arena match... which you were. Are we clear yet?Quote:Originally Posted by Lolblaws
There is only one pvp goal in this game and it is achieved through kill count.
Um. That's a choice. It's also a quite telling sign that you had little participation in PvP before there were any rewards at all. I mean... what in the world were people doing PvPing before PvP IOs starting dropping right?Quote:Originally Posted by Lolblaws
In both cases you end up not cycling through all the targets and are very frequently bumping into the 5 min timer reset on rolling an IO. -
Quote:lol damn.Originally Posted by macskull
Well some of them still have their jobs...
nice one Mac. -
Quote:You want me to explain how activities that go on in a PVP ZONE are PVP related? Really?Originally Posted by Lolblaws
I dare you to explain how ANY of the activities that go on in the pvp zones are pvp related.
Shivs, Nukes, Hotspots, Turrets+Av's...
Those are ALL pve aspects tacked on to pvp because the developers have no clue how to design pvp.
I'm not a game developer so I have no clue as to whether they know what they're doing. Their game is over six years old and showing promise.... they stilll have their jobs... they still get my $15 bucks a month... so to me it's safe to say they aren't ******* things up that bad. I'm certain you could do it better.... but not really.
You spoke of the goal of PvP and how there is only one... specifically kill count. While very true in the arena, one's kill count in a zone isn't rewarded or recorded. One's defeat in a zone isn't debt'ed or a significant loss in any way. Therefore you cannot say that is the goal of PvP as a whole. A high kill count is simply an objective of many PvPers. The 'highest kill count' can be a goal in PvP... but as I already mentioned... only applies to arena where a match win is dependant on it. -
Quote:It seems as though you've allowed yourself to see the goal of an arena match and the goal of the entire PvP system as the same.Originally Posted by Lolblaws
There is only one pvp goal in this game and it is achieved through kill count.
It's not mean or being a jerk to score the highest kill count through the most efficient means available.
I can't imagine one being that silly though. -
Simply put... we had two ways of getting PvP IOs before... now we have 3.
That's a good thing. The matter doesn't really have to get any more complicated than that. -
DoT supresses like any other ST attack. It starts when the attack shows up in one's combat window, and ends shortly after... sometimes even while the DoT is still being applied. As mentioned previously, the method of 'attack first then web' can often work in a TP'ers favor because the duration of TS from the attack lasts longer than that of webnade... making the TS caused from webnade not even happen when used right after.
Basically it boils down to falling patiently without attacking whenever webbed until TP becomes available. Making a lot of this work has to do with how high you're flying when webbed. Low flying often leads to a dead flyer. High flying with +range to make it work brings opponents up to you and usually out of their element (as SS/SJ'ers). As someone earlier in the thread suggested... a good flyer can usually get the jump on others from above or see them coming before they let them get within webnade range.
TP Foe alone, like web grenade causes very little (if any) TS due to the fact it is not a damaging power. It also thankfully, provides a TP'er with 1 or 2 seconds for any TS to wear off while the 'unaffected ' phase is still being applied. Also, with patience and a quick finger it isn't terribly difficult to queue up TP when one heres the TP Foe animation starting to play and dissappear imediately after being TP'ed. Since TP Foe will count as the 'first' TP, the one a TP'er queues during the TP Foe anmation acts as the second TP and cannot be suppressed and players and even drones aren't quick enough to fire a shot before the TP'er is carried off to their own queued destination. -
Quote:I'm aware that Phase/Hib works... as I made no menetion that TP is better, but equal to... when webbed. Having both of course is awesome too.Originally Posted by Vikingfan
The 1st thing you do after you web nade a flyer is queue up attack.... this will suppress tp (web nade hits suppresses tp + attack hits supresses tp your not going anywhere)... Phase/hibernoob works.
It is also very possible that TP is already supressed from attacking or taking damage even b4 you get hit with web. There is alot of scenarios that can come into play.... and the one your talking about is that someone web nades you then calls it a day....8P Phase/hibernoob works.
My Merc's MM loves flyers in zone btw..... if I get attacked by a flyer or "attack all" on a flyer taking liberties on a teammate or whatever... Both Spec-op's 80% of the will fire webnades and the rest of the pets attack at the same time... getting webed and taking damage at the same time. Phase/hibernoob works.
Believe it or not, but the attack that is queued up after casting web grenade while a TP'er is falling won't hit before TS wears off from web grenade. If you catch a TP'er this way it is more likely that they just didn't do it right.
Anyone who claims to Fly/TP in PvP but cannot outrange the the attacks of MM pets and/or stays within range of them is also doing it wrong, sorry to say.
The only thing that really stops a TP'er is the TP'er himself... if they choose to start attacking and suppress themselves when webbed. TS can be manipulated. Unaware players often cast attacks that suppress longer than their next attacks. Those following attacks however don't supress at all. Only the longest duration of TS applies and it is difficult for most players by themselves to even come close to perma suppressing a TP'er with attacks alone. I admit though it can take a quick finger to pull it off when under fire. Toggle debuffs work best in these situations... Invis and of course mezzing the person applying them is the counter for that. -
Quote:"in terms of reliability"Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
Why do you still give advice? TP is equal to phase, hibe and better than SS? gtfo here
Learn to comprehend.... then get back to me... with a question based on something other than ignorance. -
Quote:Web Grenade causes all of about half a seconds worth of TS. Most powers that don't deal damage suppress very very little making TP a suitable counter to web grenades... equal to phase and/or Hib in terms of reliability... and far better than SS'ing all da way home to base. In Short TP > Web grenade.Originally Posted by _Pine_
B) Travel suppression would not allow TP even if you had TP.
As a side note: An already queued TP cannot be suppressed at all. When a TP'er learns to TP not once but twice at all times, they can actually counter everything from gank squads and TP foe to droning. -
Yeah whatever...
In truth though, I have always kinda laughed at how this 41 points or more of KB is said to be needed in PvP when all that investment is matched simply by taking hover. KB is only a death sentence to jumpers caught mid jump leaving them with nothing to do but fall and die. In fairness, one can run into many problems on a flying PvP toon too... but KB isn't one of those problems. -
After the +HP and +Recharge your aiming for, I'd go for as much resistance as you can before worrying about defense. Tough is highly recommended if you can fit it in. With rechage where it needs to be your heal will most often be up before heroes can bring you down on the move.
Also, since your going the way of phase, don't be afraid to take and use Power Surge as a staple and grab the 'click and forget' Ethreal Shift Phase for the crash. Again your heal recovery will be up and ready before the phase is over. When slotted for max resists and in T9 mode, /ELA can stand up to anyone's attack chains and sometimes... everyone's. -
Sorry just a stickler for wording.
Dead compared to freedom I can agree with... but it isn't fair to say Virtue RV is dead outright, nor any other server that has consistent PvP activity.