Dahjee

AFAIK, Intangibility ad KB are the only two effects that can get their MAG boosted. Luckily Grav/ has both!

To answer you questions to the best of my abilty though I'll say this.

If you take the concept of Magnitude and how it scales down against a greater foe... and combine it with Dimension Shift's "Oh Snap!!" nature of use, you start to get the picture that this power is desgned to do it's job really, really well. The toughest encounters in the game don't only involve AVs/Heroes/EBs... but such foes at +2, +3, and +4 levels. A Mag 3 Intange won't save anything in some of these circumstances. On the other hand., keeping the mag lower intentionally will prove as convinient mitigation when all focus should be on the AV/Hero/EB. I think having the choice is pretty sweet.

Simply put. The chances of needing to use this power increase as the relative magnitude of this power decreases. Slot accordingly when the time calls for it.

Folks as long as the power phases people out, it will still be just as confusing to teammates. It will still, just as it does now, require communication from the caster and common sense when using it.

A situational power is not a bad power. It's a power that requires more thought than non-situational powers simply because one must know what situations to use it for and one must be able to recognize when those situations occur.

If someone remains whiffing at a shifted foe(s)... it probably wasn't used right.

If a teammate is waiting for the effect to wear off more than about 5 secs ... it probably wasn't used right.

If a team bind wasn't attached and spammed at the beginning or end of it's duration... it probably wasn't used right

If the situation it's casts in doesn't require AT LEAST 30 seconds... it probably wasn't used right.

If teammates remain enegaged and have to try to distinguish which foes are shifted from those that are not... it probably wasn't used right.

The truth is, that the type of teams and teammates that would never run into situations that truly do require the use of D-Shift... are the same teams and teammates that could also make due without soft control. The teams and teammates that would run to situations that require the use of D-shift are the teams and teammaes that will probably require it's use more than a couple times.

D-shift is simply one of "insurance" powers, where it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Something like that would never be nerfed into to mere soft control.

I thought burst damage was simply the application of damage upfront and in one "burst" as opposed to DoT, and meaningful to anyone looking for powers that that do more damage than others. I'm just a simple man.

I can agree to the findings of any solid DPS testing and I can undestand it's standing as a standard metric, but there's just something wrong when the tests done are done in a fashion so far from gamplay.

What happens when ST DPS is calculated vs. 2 targets instead of 1? Versus 3?

What happens without stamina...

What happens when DPS is calculated into DPE?

A ST DPS test reflects only that: possible damage per second. It, more often than not, does not relfect a more realistic in-game scenario in which an AoE heavy set will not spend it's time, effort, and slots to defeat foes with ST attacks from it's primary.

I am NOT disputing the well known facts of which sets CAN deliver the most damage overall or even ST damage overall.

I am simply stating that Grav/ can and should spend more of its time focused on ST damage more than the others... that it has the tools to do it more so than the other control primaries... That doing so is (or should be) just as much a part of a Grav/ dom's playstyle as it is to a Fire/ dom that uses additional damage for mitgation via secondary effects and AoEs.

I originally stated that "most damage" by my defintion was not based on DPS.

I feel as though Grav/ being ST heavy on damage and mititgaton, 3 AoE "Hard Control" powers, and a control/damage pet is a fair trade for no soft control. It's a playstyle preference. I've leveled and played many other doms as well... every other dom actually... (except plant, but rolled plant on test and as a troller on live) I don't come to the boards with opinions of whats best, better, or useless. I will chime in to OPs that are looking for highlights of a build or help with style of play, troubles with what to do with such powers etc...

I admit it was a mistake to say the phrase "Grav/ does the most ST damage." People interpret the way they want and I could of done a better job of distinguishing my definition from the standard.

I thought I was pretty clear in saying that my statement was NOT in reference to DPS.

DPS tests come a dime a dozen here on the forums... which is the only place they > all mind you. You can convince yourself that this game is played on paper under controlled settings all you want. It doesn't make my arguement fall. As I said you can have you DPS charts and say whatever set you want has the most DPS. It wont change the pretty obvious fact that Grav/ is designed to do ST damage more so that any other Control set.

It won't hurt you to agree. I promise.

If you really want to get your money's worth out of wormhole... try these few tips outs before respec'ing out of such an outstanding power:

If you really want to wormhole a group and avoid the KB, Hit the group with GDF first. It's the only Ranged AoE hold with -KB and will cause those wormholed to line up in a single filed line. The tricky part is that the -KB effect of GDF only lasts a few seconds. Usually I'll alpha a group with GDF, follow witha ST hold on the boss (if any) and then wormhole group to a better spot, or place them neatly wherever the group has aggroed them. If you wait past about 4 secs... you'll get the same messy result.

I know I know. It seems silly to invest two powers to do the job another primary can do with one. This is simply because we too often desire only the AoE stun of wormhole and not the actual "porting" aspect of it.

Stop treating wormhole as a timid AoE. It is quite dramatic, and it should be the first alpha. A couple successful wormholes into a mission will have other Doms, Brutes and Corruptors waiting for your expertise before laying down thier AoE powers and patches. A simple bind helps a lot. ( for example: "Wormhole in Effect! please stand by")

Stop treating Wormhole as if HAS to hit 16 people! The best use of this power is found in its ability to create a group of 16, not effect the group of 16 thats already there! Wanderers and ambushes come to mind. Keep an eye out for mobs that aren't included in the aggroed group, and put them where they should be. This may sopund silly, but wormhole it's probaly best friends to any other Doms, cause they will love another 1-16 mobs beling plucked from the next group and placed on their icepatch or voltanic gasses before it expires into redundancy due to fast moving DPS group damage.

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1: All sets (except Ill and sometimes Mind) benefit from Containment equally. Any effect it has on the data is negligible, since it has the same effect across the board. If you really want to, add ~3-5 DPS to the Mind and Ill scores to compensate.

2: Since the tests were all done against a single target, why does it matter if Hotfeet and AoE powers were used? The DPS measured is still single target.

3: Please follow Ditzy's advice and provide Data to back up your claims.

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I'd rather not go down this road...

I think I see what's happening. You're looking to say that Fire/ and pre-I15 Mind/ Doms can put out damage faster than a Grav/ Dom can to the same target. A tested conclusion that I can agree with and respect, but its not a conclusion that makes my statement false in any way. You can spam a ST hold and immobile back to back all day, but it won't make the combination of the two powers alone add up to the combination of identical ST powers plus two more ST attacks. (One of which deals more burst damage than any other power found in control primaries) Grav/ has a ST attack chain of it's own attainable by level 6.

A test to prove my claim would be simple... have every primary fire each of their ST attacks at identical targets once, and add up the damage.

I think it is unrealistic to expect control primaries with just the ST hold and immobile to slot them for damge instead of control. Usually these sets have AoE damage to make up for what they lack in ST damage. Gravity has only it's AoE immobilize, but offers more ST attacks than any other set. It's likely that most players, especially those with controller backround (like the OP) will slot their ST mez powers for control, and their ST attacks for damage.

The data I used can be found on the player creation screen when scrolling though the dominator primaries.

Some hear "most damage" and think DPS, and some think about the orange numbers floating above... sometimes it's like we debate the quality of burgers and fries, before we discuss the quality of the cows and potatoes they come from.

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plus more ST damage than any other control primary.

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No it does not. Would people please stop saying things like this?

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http://boards.cityofvillains.com/showfla...part=4&vc=1

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Nice thread.

Let me know when they do one for Doms... or one without containment... or one that doesn't use the AoEs and PBAoEs when testing for ST damage.... but nice thread. Grav/ does the most ST damage.

I haven 't tried the full set but have had I think 4/6 at one time including the proc.

It does indeed KB those affected by the proc before teleporting them. A somewhat iffy result since it's not exactly predictable when or what mobs will be affected.

It also, as you predicted, can keep a foe from retaliating while the wormhole animation plays but due to the KB surpession, they won't go anywhere. Basically if your intention is to move a group form point A to B, you have everyone stunned but some will be ported and some will not. If you goal is to keep a group where they currently stand, again you'll stun them all but create a delayed scatter effect... knocking those affected by the proc back a little during animation and the others further back once teleported.

Personally I use wormhole for better placement of groups and wanderers.... I got less satisfaction from not being able to rely 100% on whether or not a targeted foe(s) would be teleported or not.

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Another unique quirk about Grav/ that many are often turned off by is it's level 12 AoE power. Instead of a standard AoE soft sontrol power like flashfire, or ice slick that is available every spawn, Grav/ is given a situational AoE hard control power. One that calls for an absolute time-out on foes by phasing them out and rendering them un-affectable. A power that is Mag-enhancable and also available every spawn. Gravity's Dimension shift power is probably the most mis-used power in the game due to ammount teammates it has pissed off, but one shouldn't allow it's reputation of misuse to define the power itself. It's usage solo versus teamed vary greatly, but in either case it can prove invaluble when used right... whether taking out the ambush when the AV has just 10%hp left... or calling a timeout so teammate can wakie and regroup when split... to the classic "I thought you all were gonna aggro that mob!" scenaro. D-shift never pisses off the player you save from debt.

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You make it sound like situations where intanging enemies are common place enough to justify D-Shift as a solid power selection or comparable to other set's power selections at that level. It's just not true.

It's not new news that mitigation in the form of mass intanging or knockback is the least team friendly for a vairtey of reasons (Scatters aggro, jacks up anchor/placement debuffs, screws up other member's AoE's).

Face it, Gravity is not well designed for Dominators.

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Comparable to the power selections of other sets at that level?

No, none of those other powers can do what D-shift does... there is no comparison. My intention was to label D-shift as a solid and unique power. A power misused more often than it is not.

The use of D-Shift could be compared to the use of a corr or MM rez power, only it protects a teammate(s) from debt instead of offering a recovery from it. Like I said, when used right your team should be thanking you. It's situational use should be something a Grav/ is highly regarded for, but unfortunately too many will use it incorrectly or skip it... and so another level 16 Grav/ dom falls to the ground watching his/her team wipe thinking if only Grav/ offered some early soft control! (sorry bit of a rant started there)

Many assume that because it is a level 12 pick it should be a spam-able power that offers some soft control and proceed to use it that way. When they realize it is not... they assume that it should be! That's all well and fair but it doesn't make D-shift a bad power because it doesn't fit what they want it to. It does what it's designed to very well.

Once one realizes that they find there are many more situations to use it than these boards will ever admit to. At lower levels its a life saver. At higher levels it's a live saver and pace setter for tougher challenges. Solo... well solo it's enables a Grav/ dom to easily overcome many challenges other sets would have issues with (Boss pets, extreme ambushes) and you get it at level 12!

I' sorry but no player power's effect is intriscally bad for teams. That's just a weird way way we've come to look at things... So unfortunately it creates less education of the proper use of these effects.

I do what I can In-Game... these boards however are a lost cause it seems.

Grav/ alone has two 100 KB/KU powers in it plus more ST damage than any other control primary. It also has the unique-ness of immobilizes without -KB. ST holds are overrated for grav/ imo... especially when paired with /Nrg. You can quite easily keep most foes on their back and use the hold for bosses and pesky enemy types, or when you'd rather not have a particular foe(s) affected by KB. When combined with /Nrg, which is also is now a ST damage frontrunner, Grav/Nrg has the makings of a quite sufficient soloist and team contributor, as well as a ST damage king of Dominators. However from what I hear, having lots of damage capability from your primary as well as your secondary is a silly idea! It's really a matter of switching your playstlye to fit the sets and what they offer. AoE Soft control is not greater than ST soft control when you have a LOT of ST soft control... especially when you know how to use it and have the tools to do it.

Range is the cure for long activation times. You'd be surprised at the timing contraints you face when using a slow activating power from the same 80-90ft as other ranged attacks as opposed to just its base 60ft. At just base range Propel would not be a power used effectively as a short range mitigation power or a finishing attack, but rather a followup attack to those already flying up/back and incapable of attacking. In doing so the the activation time serves as a convinent filler for the KB surpression apllied to target and helps to keep them out of the fight permanately.(rise and repeat if needed)

Pretty much.

Find out whether the AoE immobilize is going to be working with you or against you based on your playstayle and power choices. (you didn't mention what AoE you were referring to)

Just remember that unless they are slotted for a lot of range, they should never be used as an alpha attack. .. and that targetting one while out of LoS with up to 15 others is as good as an AoE hold for you.... except for that one ( like from around a corner ) It becomes a pace setter.

You lost me when you said they were the same skill...

They serve a common purpose in that they both deal AoE damage and help to defeat groups, but their purpose is clearly defined by their other effects.

Fire ball is designed to deal more damage while foes remian aggored and able to retaliate, while explosive blast has the added bonus of mitigaton by reducing aggro considerably for a couple of seconds via knockback.

Your definition of inferior might be based on putting damage and damage only on the scale.

Wormhole is a mitigation tool as much as it is an AoE stun. using it for only stun, and trying only to keep them where they currently stand, are two of the main reason why the power comes across as subpar.

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Every single other set has an "up every fight" power that doesn't piss teams off with the knockback, unlike wormhole:

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Wormhole is for herding, not controlling.

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Also, pissing teams off is never a power's fault... it's the fault of the player using the power.

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but now the secondaries suck so much endurance that youre constantly resting while the rest of the group moves on

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Solution: Slot more endurance reduction.

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Or push the button that refills your end bar completely!

Explain Gravity/?

Here's 2 cents and a few unique qualities about Grav/ that I like and think sometimes get overlooked when discussing the set.

I think Grav/ is tricky to work with because it is Designed to be a damage heavy primary, not a control heavy primary, and what the set lacks in control it compensates with damage and mitigation. Mind/ is a similar design in that it also excludes it's ST hold from the initial two picks, almost suggestting that the sets are capable without them... only Mind/ compensates with more control. This is where a miconception can start to occur for grav/ players, especially those who have played other control primaries.

Overlooking this unique design of Grav/ often leads to the mistake of skipping many of the powers that make grav/ work and perform equal to any other set or better. Even those who do realize the design of grav/ often argue that such a design is unnecessary or unwanted due to a secondary being full of attacks... They may fail to see however that by skipping the attacks of the set they are also giving up effective mitigation, which is what starts to give Grav/ that "lack of early control" feel.

It shouldn't be surprising that Grav/'s ST and AoE Immobilize powers are the only two that don't -KB foes. There's a ST 100% KU and a 100% KB power right in between the two picks, and in combination offer countless variations of "hard" mitigation in which your opponents cannot fight back due to being in the air or out of range. All the while damaging these same foes means less to no need for as much control. The ST hold could be considered that power you use on those you haven't started flip flopping yet... or You can see it as an "off" switch to KB when needed.

Another unique quirk about Grav/ that many are often turned off by is it's level 12 AoE power. Instead of a standard AoE soft sontrol power like flashfire, or ice slick that is available every spawn, Grav/ is given a situational AoE hard control power. One that calls for an absolute time-out on foes by phasing them out and rendering them un-affectable. A power that is Mag-enhancable and also available every spawn. Gravity's Dimension shift power is probably the most mis-used power in the game due to ammount teammates it has pissed off, but one shouldn't allow it's reputation of misuse to define the power itself. It's usage solo versus teamed vary greatly, but in either case it can prove invaluble when used right... whether taking out the ambush when the AV has just 10%hp left... or calling a timeout so teammate can wakie and regroup when split... to the classic "I thought you all were gonna aggro that mob!" scenaro. D-shift never pisses off the player you save from debt. I get "cool, thanks" and "awesome, I was map serving... thx" and "how long?... resting real quick." It does exactly what its designed to do very well... however it unfortunately does not come with "how to use" instructions, and you will rarely come across that info here on the forums. I'd be happy to offer, but I digress.

When it comes to GDF and Wormhole, Grav/ offers another very unique combination of control and some serious mitigation. As the immobiilzes are unique in that they offer no -KB effect, Grav/'s AoE hold is the only ranged hold with -KB. This offers a benefit to any alpha powers that have that undesired KB effect when on teams like some nukes, patches, AoE attacks... and even wormhole. Wormhole is often seen as as AoE stun power equally matched to all other AoE stuns given at level 12. I think its a mistake to look at it that way. Wormhole is an extreme mitigation tool as well as an AoE stun. One should focus on both aspects as often as possible... and if the KB timng gets too difficult to deal with, one can use GDF before wormholing a group and elimnate the KB. The effect of this combination is certain to wow just about anyone on your team if done as an alpha... for it creates a single-filed line of floating mobs, or a tight little ball of mobs when put in a corner... either way is fine have fun with it, but don't foget to bring your cone attacks!

I'd speak on Singy but it's rep is solid already... everything said about it is true. awesome

Sorry to offend... I didn't think I came across as calling the "complainers" silly... just the fact that its a complaint, as it is with many and most ATs about end heaviness and "feeling the End Bite" with certain builds... only we doms were given a tool to deal with such problems.

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It was because od Domination that I didn't burn out.


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See. It works.

If I understood things correctly, Doms weren't penalized with higher end cost, they were simply adjusted using the same Damage vs END vs Rech tables that all powers deal with. Give and Take...

btw you posted while I was typing so I read your post after submitting mine. I wasn't referring to YOU or your build in my post... based on what you've said about your build you don't have end problems to complain about... all you've really experienced is more end usage on an already end heavy build. Sucks I know but it's not the AT's fault... You've got more ways to deal with end than my Doms (Stamina) and mine are doing just fine.

Grav/ gets to choose whether to -KB or not... more noticable in pvp since you'll never see your opp held or immobilized for more than a sec or two. Gravity's holds have -KB, and it's immobiles do not.

Immobilizing + KB can be a great way of keeping of foe grounded or in place long enough to knock them out of range while using the holds will prove useful for those times when you want your secondary effects to cease (ie building ledge , teammate's AS or AoE patch, etc)

Am I the only on who finds it silly that the only AT in the game with an inherent "fill endurance bar 100%" button... has players who have to complain about end usage?

I can't even count the number of times I've looked to press my domination button for endurance while playing other ATs.

The game has changed just slightly for doms, and for the better. Minor adjustments may be needed for some builds and moderate ones for some playstlyes perhaps, but with the damage boost I think there is great chance these adjustments will be dealt with just fine. Domination's usage is now determined by ones need for +End, +Mag, mez protection, or all of the above (perma) where before the +Damage was probably its top benefit. Moving a couple slots around or even respec'ing to make the most out of this may be frustrating as always but will prove to be a better overall dom experience... to new doms and those who aren't currently satisfied yet.

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If every power rezzed players, but the actual resuscitate power from emp, therm, rad etc was worse then them, then ya it would be exactly like rez powers

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Ok... I used Rez powers as an example because although used more often than some other powers, they are highy situational given that they depend heavily on a specific situation to occur to be used, but they are not a power too many average players would skip. I think you are having a different arguement than I am, or just being disagreeable, I'm not sure.

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I am not an avg player, but unlike a lot of people around here I am able to disconnect myself and my experiences from skewing my perspective of how others might view a situation.


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Then why is it you entire post seems to define usefulness only in terms of Damage, damage, +DAM, and BU+damage?

Again, we're not even on the same page here. You see one to two situations a snipe can be useful to use and/or slot, I see more.

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Earth is an excellent set at maintaining range, probably the best set at it in the game along with Trick arrows.

An earth/ranged dom is anything but gimped.

As for earth contributing damage, well a proc'd out VG is about the best "ranged" damage any dom gets from their primary on top of the usual proc'd aoe immobs. And earthquake take the -res proc, which in a team can add more damage than any dom primary. Especially from range.

Oh and even at 90ft propel is still lame. Cool looking, but lame.

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I wouldn't consider VG part of my regular attack chain, but I get what your getting at.

I agree toatally that Earth is one of if not the best CC primaries out there in terms of ease of conrolling and keeping foes at bay. Perhaps with stalagmites and VG one could do some pretty good AoE damage in an all ranged build. Remember however you are often sacrificing lots of your primary's control in exchange for damage.... by damage I mean enhancing it, not adding procs. All primaries have AoE holds/suns/etc to add procs to. If your AoE stun and AoE hold aren't as effective in doing what they're admittingly meant to do, well then you are left relying on your ST hold and immobile more often which after being slotted for damage aren't as effective either. Then you are back to relyng on your secondary to to defeat these mobs before they reach you and wishing you had something more than just ranged attacks...

It seemed pretty clear to me that I was not labeling an all ranged Earth/ dom as gimped, but stating that would likely be an all ranged build that many would criticize in saying "a melee/mixed playstyle would do so much better." Don't get me wrong, I'd be the first to say that it's possible to build an effective all-ranged Earth/ Dom, but that doesn't mean it will be as easy to pull of as others primaries may. I don't think its any secret that Earth/ ranks near the bottom in terms of damage dealt from a CC primary... perhaps that changed when they fixed Stoney, not sure but I doubt it. I'm sure the controller boards would reveal wich primary alone deals what compared to what.

and Yeah, Propel... because 2 shotting mobs went out of style... just like the long activting melee powers that no one gets...

Yes, if you step into their dimension with another phase power, you can attack them... and they can attack you!

Right now it's quite easy for the caster to know when D-shift wears off. It always last the same ammount of time and when used often, you can count the 12 loud "hums" the power makes before it wears off. I'm afriad no changes to the look and/or targetting recticle of affected mobs will make this power less confusing to teammates. They will still be left confused as to why they cant attack or where the mob they were attacking dissapeard to, and it will still be the responsibility of the D-Shift caster to let their teammates know when and under what circumstances they will use the power... and also what the power does.

If the point is to make it easier for teammates to understand the power... and having the Caster communicate to team what it does is too silly of an idea!... maybe the best thing is just to put a huge timer above each affected mob's head.That way it becomes a bit more clearer exactly when they will be attackable again. Seeing "unnaffected" and a timer going 7...6...5...etc... after one whiff at a mob should instantly ease the confusion of what happened, although the frustration caused from having it cast unecessarily will still be there.

I think an all-ranged Earth/ Dom would be the stereotyped gimp dom that some are unsure about. A dom who appears to be playing controller. From my experience, the trick about building an all ranged isn't just about taking just ranged powers from the secondary... but turning your primary into damage. (not just adding procs) I don't see Earth/ as having enough damage to pull it off.

A better comparison for melee vs ranged would be a standard dom with controls slotted for control and assault mixed with range and melee... to an all ranged dom with full damage slotting in primary and secondary (ranged) attack powers. Then again however, I'm never one for paper comparisons and numbers... I'm a playstlye/tatics/gameplay kinda guy. I can share a bit of my experience and speak on what I have found to work but as always YMMV.

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The dom can slot some +damage in control powers as well to make up the lack of melee damage. Gravity is a good choice I think. It has -slow and two attack powers (Propel and Lift). Is Gravity's Lift the same damage as Mind control's now? I haven't tested it.

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Not some damage... lots of damage. The hard part is to sacrafice the control completely for damage... and have all the CC effects act as a beneficial side effect. Grav makes a great choice for it's 2 extra ST attacks (adding four additional "attacks" to the attack chain) as well as having a wonderful way to put mobs at range via wormhole. Mind comes in a distant second having the extra ST attack and TK, which is also useful for keeping/putting foes at a distance... but no immobilizes.

P.S. Before anyone says it... Propel from 90ft away completely loses it's slow activating feel. I promise.

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Some people like to build ranged Doms, but the approach is just suboptimal compared to a conventional build of range and melee. Make one of your Doms ranged if you want, it's your 15, but keep in mind you are in fact gimping yourself in so doing.

And keep a respec handy just in case.

Remember kids, a Dom that kills slowly dies quickly!

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I'm almost certain that comparision is on paper, and I'd strongly advise someone to do a new comparision with I15 changes installed. There's big difference between killing slow, and killing slower. My doms have never had much trouble killing things at a fast pace before, and on test atm... there's no such thing as a dom that kills slow.

I don't disagree that the optimal of optimal builds (farming and such) is a mixture of both range and melee, but just as one can make an all melee build work by finding a way to deal wtih the increased risk of debt... one can make an all ranged dom work by finding a way to eliminate such risk.

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Thanks for responding. I like the sounds of this. I have 3 doms in the 30s. Which do you think would be best suited for the play style you're talking about (ranged powers)? I have a fire/electric, ice/psi, earth/fire. So far, I like ice controls the most.

And I agree, Doms are very easy to level thru the early teens. I've taken on more with my doms thru these lvls than my brutes.

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I liked /Psy for a few reasons: 1. Each ranged power is already sitting at 100ft base range, 2. the power subdue, which acts as a decent attack as well as extra mitgation for keeping foes in place. 3. The secondary effect of Psionic powers. Most mobs are easily outranged... the very few who aren't will only have one to two attacks to reach you and those will be greatly reduced in attack speed, making them quite easy to overcome.

For a primary, I wouldn't say Ice stands out to me as primary heavy on ST damage, but the slows could definately help to mitigate foes who break free of an immobile or hold. You may also find yourself picking up and using the ranged AOE sleep more than the PBAoE Hold. Proc slotting helps a bunch too heh.

Wth several powers than can be laid down to miitigate damage in Earth control, and well just a lot of extra damage in Fire control... I'd say Ice is right in the middle, dealing a bit more damage than you'd get from Earth/, while keeping things at bay easier than you would with Fire/.

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I know I've been very impressed with the attack chains of my all-ranged builds on Test so far...

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What kind of Dom do you have on test? I've made several Doms and it seems that their melee powers do more damage than the ranged ones. Has this changed or is my perception distorted?

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You may be corect in terms of powers, but I was speaking more of the builds themselves, not the individual powers.

I've made many doms as well. Enough to be creative with different ways of building them. On test, I was speaking of a Grav/Psy, a Mind/Psy, and a Grav/Nrg. The primaries are slotted for damage as much as the secondaries with a great emphasis on range, and Grav/ and Mind/ offer additional ST attacks which help to stretch out the attack chain. The secondaries also focus on damage and range (ie Damage/Range HOs) and offer more ST ranged attacks than others creating a pretty seemless attack chain when used with mitigating and control powers from primary. I wouldn't say this is a common thing to do, but with the testing I've done, I can say it's been made a lot easier to do and will likely cause some newer dom users to approach it this way and be as comforatable as those who don't.


You can almost breeze thru the early teens of a doms life with 2 ranges in the AoE immobile and a few ranged attacks to match. I have effective doms that do lots of melee and those that hop in and out, but my grav/Psy (as an example)... who doesn't have PSW or Singy is still quite capable of any challenge I can master with my others... only it rarely if ever takes so much as a scratch in doing so.

Nothing is ever urgent when you're 115 ft away, with a full bar of endurance at the push of a buton, and complete control of every mob in a group. You find yourself in a situation like that and you'd be silly not to have a snipe fully slotted for attack.


(Edited to show relevance to OP)