DJMadman
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Posts
29 -
Joined
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will this be a cheap enough ok..... well decently priced build, I realize the kinetic combats/ lotg+recharge and the steadfast %3 and the healing unique will be the most taxing, the steadfast at least isn't mandatory right away but it really helps to push closer to soft cap in granite/non granite state. and extra regen/hp is always a nice thing. the lotg recharge will be the most likely must have for at least granite to avoid serious recharge penalties.
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I borrowed heavily from the need for speed build, because well why reinvent the wheel right. As mids unless it's been updated did not have tw when I did this I used DB for a concept. Yes possibly expensive build but this was set in mind to be able to live in granite when need be, activate rooted when I absolutely can't be mezzed, and also live outside of granite as need be as well..
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Stone Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Nimble Slash- (A) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (13) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (13) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (3) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (3) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (A) Aegis - Resistance
- (5) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (17) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (19) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (A) Aegis - Resistance
- (9) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge
- (9) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge
- (11) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
- (40) Recharge Reduction IO
- (40) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
- (31) Eradication - Damage
- (33) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge
- (33) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
- (A) Eradication - Damage
- (34) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge
- (34) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (37) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (37) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge
- (17) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (31) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (39) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (39) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (39) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Aegis - Resistance
- (21) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
- (21) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (A) Empty
- (A) Aegis - Resistance
- (25) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (25) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (27) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (27) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (29) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (29) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (45) Obliteration - Damage
- (45) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (46) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (46) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (46) Obliteration - Damage
- (48) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (48) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (50) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (36) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (36) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (A) Serendipity - Defense
- (40) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance
- (42) Serendipity - Defense/Recharge
- (43) Aegis - Resistance
- (43) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (43) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge
- (A) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
- (42) Winter's Gift - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
- (42) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)
- (A) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Recharge
- (45) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
- (A) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
- (48) Regenerative Tissue - Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (50) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
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Level 2: Swift- (A) Empty
- (A) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (5) Regenerative Tissue - Heal/Endurance
- (33) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
- (36) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (A) Empty
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (7) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (7) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
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yes I figure I will build for graine with my main build and it's a very expensive one to make granite work but eh... I think it'd be fun to try.. since the game now allows for dual builds I may actually build a second build for a character pre granite in order to do any flashbacks or tf's etc I'd want pre granite as well. I must say over all I am loving tw specially after getting the first 4 attacks. just feels very smashy and owie
and fluid
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I have, unless I missed it some where seen any posts on tw/stone, am I utterly insane in trying for this combo? Thus far I know the biggest issue with be the - recharge -speed of stone of course later on, though that can be mitigated somewhat with io slotting. ALso with the new agility alpha that seems like a tempting thing. I have potential builds going with a db/stone to give me a rough ball park of at least slotting. Just wondering if this has crossed anyone else's mind or anything I should be considered with while going this route. The only real major flaw outside of the -recharge - speed issue I see is the lack there of psi protection. (while in granite edited )
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*nods* I sort of just thought of it, and yes I know it's sort of a mix of existing ones so it's not fully brand new. It was just an idea built around something that is of that idea of layered resistance /defense with a bit of something different, also something like that imho would really pair well with SJ , that was sort of where i went with it when I thought of it, something that could mesh well with SJ, or even titan weapons/ or any of the sword /mace/axe sets, that was a bit more "natural" based though in a super hero game it's hard to be "normal" in that respect
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I know this is not the perfect idea, just a base idea I have been drumming around with and no numbers attached at all. It was an idea I had on a natural fighting defense set that comes from pure battle instinct, from being in the midst of battle and using what you learn to survive to aid you. It is not as much supernaturally based as it is just being battle ready.
Go with the blow: The character will roll with the punches literally causing less overall damage, and less a chance that a critical spot would be hit. (some resistance based number) and some reduction in a critical chance hit on the character.
Keen eye: an enemy will often give away where he will attack by the movements in his body see them and move in advanced with it. +defense melee /range
Take cover: when all else fails diving away from that big explosion is always a safe bet, remember if the fire ball is bigger then your index finger your standing too close + resistance to any attack with a aoe vector type
Human shield: sometimes using the cover of your enemy is the best thing you can do to take some of the impact. (if more then one enemy is within range minor dot to all enemies ) + resistance for every enemy around you.)
Battle hardened: you have a presence of mind from years of combative training, + perception +resistance to status effects.
Last ditch effort: You know when the chips are down you need to face your foes as it's only you and them, nothing in between, your attacks become fiercer, and are able to pull out those most needed attacks when you need them, as well as have truly a second wind that won't die: As your health degenerates after a point, gain a damage bonus proportional, as well as + recharge + endurance recovery
I'm not down yet: When your enemies think they have you, you show them it's not over till the singing: (self rez) minor damage boost increased regen for a short period of time
Warriors spirit: Through fierce conditioning and an intimidate knowledge of how the the body behaves in battle you can strike fear in those opponents who are less trained then you are while causing their attacks to merely graze you, though it may appear to them they hit dead on. ( +resistance to damage, - to hit to enemies)
tier 9 The warrior's heart: Through all your training and all the battle scars and moments of triumph you can cease those few moments in a battle where everything around you just seems to slow down to an utter crawl and you can see through all attacks. It is on pure instinct alone you act, knowing when to dodge and when to strike and strike hard ( + defense to All ) + To hit + chance for crital chance -
Thanks for the advice, Your right sort of redundant even with the theme. I changed things around a bit and found other powers that fit with the concept. It's based off really an old table top character I used to play So this should work well enough. Though again any help please offer it
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Nimble Slash- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (5) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (5) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (7) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (11) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (15) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (17) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (17) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (19) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (27) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (27) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (29) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (29) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (33) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (33) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (33) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (A) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
- (39) Eradication - Damage
- (39) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (34) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (34) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (36) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (37) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (40) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (21) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (A) Empty
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (25) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (45) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (45) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
- (46) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
- (46) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Obliteration - Damage
- (48) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (48) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (48) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - Chance for Recharge Slow
- (42) Dampened Spirits - Recharge
- (43) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
- (A) Stupefy - Endurance/Stun
- (45) Stupefy - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
- (42) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Miracle - Heal
- (A) Celerity - +Stealth
- (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
- (50) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
- (50) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Dampened Spirits - Recharge
- (50) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Marshal
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Level 2: Swift- (A) Empty
- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Empty
- (A) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
- (25) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
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Given I have enjoyed trying out TW on the test and it really would fit with a concept character I have. Mind you it is not slotted perfectly for min/max and some of the powers like stealth/invisibility were taking more for theme then anything else. I used DB as a palce holder for now as some have suggested. Could someone please assist in helping though to take what i have and or any thoughts to improve it Thank you.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Nimble Slash- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (3) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (5) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (5) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (7) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
- (A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (11) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (13) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (15) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (17) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (17) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (19) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (19) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (27) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (27) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (29) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (29) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (31) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
- (31) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
- (33) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (33) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
- (33) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
- (39) Eradication - Damage
- (39) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (34) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (34) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (36) Reactive Armor - Endurance
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance
- (36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (37) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (40) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (40) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (21) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (A) Empty
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (25) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (45) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (45) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
- (46) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
- (46) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (46) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
- (48) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
- (48) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (48) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
- (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - Chance for Recharge Slow
- (43) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
- (50) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff
- (50) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
- (A) Stupefy - Endurance/Stun
- (45) Stupefy - Accuracy/Recharge
- (50) Stupefy - Stun/Range
- (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
- (42) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Miracle - Heal
- (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
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Level 2: Swift- (A) Empty
- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Empty
- (A) Performance Shifter - Accuracy/Recharge
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
- (23) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (25) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
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So this is the real question then cause ya it's shiny. if WM/EA is so pretty and so strong and yes I've come back to read this thread over the years and just was in such awe over it work mates would give me looks Now think of this is titan weapons offers a war hammer style option what would TW/EA Be?
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Way I see it, no personal reason for me to want nerfs either way or buffs either way to brutes scrappers or any I care more just for the general priinciple of game mechanics. I love my brutes as much as I love my defenders and scrappers to be honest. I tend to play brutes more just because fury is well addicting
The best way for this perhaps t be proven one way or another is simple. take the one of the "under preforming " primary set brutes/scrappers share and then set up the best chain for each with the best slotting/ assume best recharge + capped damage and don't add anything that would boost a toon over the damage cap ala FA (that perhaps is then it's own problem if it's proving to be the culprit ) See then on average if scrappers at this point would out damage brutes or will brutes at least have equal damage if not greater. Then one of the top end sets both share and do the same thing. This at least should give a "general" look at it while not specific enough for a be all answer it will at least give us numbers to toss around. Unfortunately I am not in a location now to be able to do the math for this. Hoping perhaps someone may already have
Reason I say go with an under performer and one of the top notch sets is it will then give us a decent idea of comparison. Do I think it will end the debate maybe not but at least we'll have some more data. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The problem here is two-fold. First, the vast majority of players just aren't as picky as is sometimes portrayed on the forums. Its just not common to see people getting kicked from teams or selectively ignored just because of their archetype, except under very unusual circumstances. Second, players are fickle, and balancing archetypes based on what players today think is good or bad implies that players' judgment doesn't change substantially over time. It does.
So this is not a good foundation upon which to build an argument in general. It tends to be too transitory and too easy to counter-argue.
Lies, dammed lies and statistics it is then!
In games I don't think I myself have ever run into that problem of being kicked for being the wrong "at" either, rare if it happens but yes. I agree to the point of basing any argument or situation strictly on what one feels is right at the time or perceives is never really good for over all game balance. The reason I myself tossed my cents in was because of the notion that one AT can do the job of two others and is this a game balancing issue that is so egregious that it needs to be addressed.
I agree with the point that this is really only something talked about in small groups in game amongst those that seriously crunch numbers and or forum goers by and large, and usually those are part and parcel members of the same group. To be honest 99% of the time it will not effect how people play the game baring those that want to tweak out that last percent point to be top dog as it were.
However my concern is just strictly from a numerical stand point and a stand point of looking at at's be it broad roles or strengths and weaknesses as you may have it, and asking does this make sense from a purely game mechanical stand point for this to exist, is to this to be kept as intended, and if not what are the options to resolve it.
Lets assume at least brutes when they were on red side were intended to be as built and at peak great tankers and great melee damage. now that they can go blue side is this still intended and if so how is it balanced around blue side tankers and scrappers. Again I agree 99% of the game will it really effect it no, but is it an inconstancy that can grow in time maybe.. I'm not sure
Way I view it is rather have a way to try and find a way to offer a suggestion or perhaps somehow offer a valid one that is reasonably discussed, then not take part in the conversation hope that if / when it is corrected it is done so without butchering any archetypes, and then if it is be the sort of person that would complain they came late to the party and didn't like the food served when they had chances all along to provide input.
Though that is an issue isn't it finding a solution not colored by a perspective. Hey whoever said I was completely practical
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Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
"Roles" tends to imply playstyle, and I don't think the game should in a literal sense dictate playstyle. I prefer to think of the archetypes as having strengths and weaknesses: like any tool what you do with it is a combination of what the tool's strengths and weaknesses are, and what your strengths and weaknesses are. Roles are things players fill, not characters, and whether they are any good at that role depends on their skill and the tools they chose to try to fill that role. You can make questionable choices in tools, but the tools themselves don't have explicit roles stamped on them.
Good point and I do suppose when I was saying broad roles that was more or less the angle I was going for though my word choice was well lacking. The real question then is perhaps making sure one at's strength and weaknesses give it well the character it needs to not be outclassed then by a similar at that shares strengths and or weaknesses.
Suppose that's the million dollar question then how to do it without well over buffing past the content of the game, and or diminishing an AT to the point where it loses what made it what it was. Suppose that is the age old question with game balance. When one sees threads like this and it's the same in all games a player whom has that "edge" as it were for the rest of this post lets assume that A: brutes have better defenses by and large then scrappers and B: at end game when both at's are brought to their peak performance brutes can be equal to or out damage scrappers.
If these two things then are assumed true and fact the real problem is how do we find game balance within the strengths and weakness's of each AT:
A: will raising Stalker's damage, scrappers damage and tankers defense as sugguested thus place brute's in the center and neither "peak " at either end of the defense offense spectrum? Just a glance by and large it would do this.
1a: However if in doing this does the problem then become one of end game balance, and will the abilities of these newly boosted AT"s preform higher then expected and higher then the content was designed for? This one is not so clear and to be honest may not matter
1b: This point is perhaps the hardest one to over come. If we look at end game content and if we look at the AT's where the stand now. Will raising the other AT's actually impact the game enough to matter? Given how well the characters as they are now run through the I-trials as a general rule of thumb.
The reason why I ask this is important to this end. The problem people see be it perceived or actual to a degree is that brutes will take slots on teams more so then scrappers and tankers. The reasoning behind this is they have defenses as good as tanks at peak performance and their damage can at least match if not exceed scrappers.
So we raise the other AT's but the problem still remains. Brutes as it stands now can handle the content without much of an issue and can tank and attack very well and thus while not preforming "as" well as now the newly boosted scrapper and tank as suggested above by Mauk. They will be able to do the job of a tanker and a scraper for the trials with relative ease while only taking up one of the slots.
I think that is the real crux of the argument and it's greatest problem. It is not that boosting the other AT's wouldn't be nice but would it really accomplish the goal? -
Well I do remember ED and the earlier debuffs and the well issues back then..
The real question is this can we raise the glass ceiling of damage to those extens to make this possible while still keeping the game enjoyable. Trust me I have no issues with just buffing the classes that need the buffing hence the idea of the stalker buff.
My concern with that approach of simply raising the bar every time we find an issue is when will that bar hit the ceiling and what do we do then.
Heck to play the devil's advocate of sorts this game's already proven very easily that any archtype played competently and with a decent slotting of enchancments and slots can be more then average.
So perhaps really the question is this and it's one of game theory ironically then it is more of strict game mechanics. What are the defined roles of each arch type. To be honest the game's evolved quite a bit over the years as it's been made and played. Both via the devs and their changes in game growth and development and in how players themselves have changed this by how they play the characters..
Least we forget the starting of "offenders" before corruptors and how that came to birth, something done by the players and still to be honest of of my guilty pleasures for playing
The real issue right now is simple red and blue are mixing sides which in a way is amazing I mean really is amazing if you take a pure character development who gives a dang about exactly how much dps I have over this guy point of view. You can truly flush out a super hero/villain character and have them develop through play and enjoy it.
Now the problem is also the benefit, ain't that always the way it is
I think it's been discussed almost to the horse beating the dead horse up a hill point; yet when coh and cov were made they were made from completely different points of view with game theory.
One was almost a set piece akin to a classic mmo fantasy/table top style we're talking old DND first edition here. Where each type had a defined role and they were the kings of that role and by and large did well it in and it was a happy nitch
With COV as thoughts and theories evolve so do games, and it brought forth a hybrid class system more akin to well for a table top gamer gurps/mutants &masterminds feel to where one class wasn't necessary locked into one role per say. Both sides were happy both sides rarely played with each other baring the few co op missions that did exist.
Then with going rogue this changed. we have two game systems that are well now playing together on the same content on the same teams that have ben made with different points of view.
The only real permanent or at least close to one I can think of is, looking at all the sets now as one big happy family of a game and asking A: what role do they play in the game or at least what "broad" role do they cover since even within an AT some power sets may learn more toward damage/ debuffing / control /survival .
However perhaps a broad role for each archetype should be found and then find a way so that each type fits that role without completely eclipsing any others. Impossible maybe however only real way to find a good concrete fix is to start from the core and build up the at's so that they are built from the same line of thought instead of two different lines of reasoning.
and I shouldn't have had that third extra large dunkin donuts today
oh and edited for horrible spelling the first time and breaking it up a bit more... -
Oh and just so others note I am not calling for buffs or nerfs either way just giving thoughts on the matter in hopes of trying to find even ground and possible solutions that we may come across. One thing in running table top games over the years a few larps and other such odd adventures I've found as a golden rule. The game starts to become stall when you start becoming unwilling to look at every possible angle and ask yourself if this needs to be changed.
in the end you may end up losing out on a train of thought that brings up an idea that changes the game in ways you never imagined and well hopefully for the better
For right now I rather not see any buff's nerfs myself until it can be tested out that A: it doesn't bring one type to be worthless or while trying to elevate another type it makes that one too "godlike" as it were -
Just a few thoughts from my end, though I do not have enough understanding of the hard numbers to state either way if any of what I am going to say is correct just ideas that I have been peddling around.
The issue with scrappers and brutes is partially due to perception and partially due to the sheer amount of buffing and or enhancements that can bring brutes to equal to if not at some moment greater then scrapper damage. While I may get hate for this suggestion.
From my understanding and if I am wrong please correct me but this atl east will be close enough to get the point across. What if for brutes it was changed so say that their damage cap was instead of 650% limited to 450%.
Now yes horrifying I know, but the idea then would be to allow for fury to count as a damage enhancer that would allow a brute to go over their damage threshold capping off at 100% fury = 200% damage enhancement. This would allow for "peak" moments of the brute ala comic books to have moments of extremely high damage yet by and large most likely at cap with all bonuses told sit most likely 500-600%
Do I think this idea would work no idea but just saying if indeed two at's are the same in offensive abilities or can peak out at this, and one is lacking comparatively speaking on the defensive side; and both have the same job should some game balance be found.
As for the stalker issue with scrappers though I honestly doubted it "could" be coded like this as I am not sure if it exists within the game.
thought from classic table top gaming and rogues comes to mind, and or skirmishers even. If while within say 10foot radius the stalker attacks someone whom is not targeting them they score a critical.
Now to balance this out perhaps add a degree of threat to it to where the tanker/brute whomever is trying to keep enemies attention on them has to put some work into it balance it out. However this might at least bring a bit more of a rogue-like or even more of the stealthy sneaky feel of the stalker to the plate.
Just random thoughts toss em in the trash and burn them as you like I will be running to hide from the flaming garbage tossed my way
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I ended up taking the build advice thank you, though I took out grant cover and switched it for phalanx fighting. I ended up with 2 allies near by soft capping all positional defenses. The set still keeps a nice recharge bonus and great damage bonus, 5 seconds away from perma hasten with spiritual. The resists on it are decent enough outside of one with the shield and are very nice with it active. and 49% defense debuff. I think I am sated iwth this one
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now I just need to work on an io'ed out build that will least get me by while i earn that any help would be greatly appropriated and any advice on that build and if anything should change as well.
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ok I was going to go to bed to actually get some sleep but then I looked over my build realized I was caped already for recharge time ooops, I was able to work it around a little get a bit more end out of the deal via re slotting, and bring up my defense solo to a bit better 37,38,37ish for the positions and decent enough resists, with 3 team mates iwthin P shields range I'll be at soft cap for positional as well.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Initial Strike- (A) Stupefy - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Stupefy - Endurance/Stun
- (39) Stupefy - Accuracy/Endurance
- (40) Stupefy - Stun/Range
- (40) Stupefy - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (3) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (3) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (5) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (5) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Red Fortune - Defense
- (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun
- (11) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (11) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
- (27) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
- (37) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
- (39) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff
- (A) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Panacea - Heal/Endurance
- (7) Panacea - Hea/Recharge
- (9) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
- (9) Panacea - Heal
- (A) Kinetic Crash - Accuracy/Damage/Knockback
- (27) Kinetic Crash - Damage/Knockback
- (40) Kinetic Crash - Accuracy/Knockback
- (42) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Knockback
- (42) Kinetic Crash - Damage/Endurance/Knockback
- (42) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Endurance
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (46) Titan:Citrine Shard
- (A) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff
- (45) Adjusted Targeting - Recharge
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (15) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (21) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (17) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (17) Red Fortune - Defense
- (19) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (19) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (A) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
- (31) Ragnarok - Damage
- (34) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (A) Serendipity - Defense
- (23) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance
- (23) Serendipity - Endurance/Recharge
- (25) Serendipity - Defense/Recharge
- (25) Serendipity - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (29) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (29) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (50) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (33) Hecatomb - Damage
- (33) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
- (33) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (36) Armageddon - Damage
- (36) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Empty
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (45) Resist Damage IO
- (45) Resist Damage IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (46) Defense Buff IO
- (50) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (A) To Hit Buff IO
Level 50: Cimeroran Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Void Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 2: Swift- (A) Empty
- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Empty
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (46) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
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ok so the more I look over my build, did a bit of tweaking, with phalenex if I can team up and get 3 folks near by that at least pushes me near the soft cap on all positions just shy of it. hopefully shouldn't mis much with all the bonuses to hit.. the real plus will be the speed at which the attacks will recharge and hopefully with the increased damage of 155% from global + against all odds I should be able to take em down quick enough not to die definitely not optimal, Yet I figure it will least be work able once I get the influence for the build.
I am thinking I will go with a cardio for my alpha to start once I get ageless switching the alpha over to spiritual as end definitely still will be tight on this build. -
anyone else having issues getting destiny to show up under incarnate in mids, wanted to add ageless to that to see what it would give but it wouldn't show I figure that might fix the issues with endurance. Again though realizing my real gap is for some reason only pulling "average" defense if that out of this..
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any help would appreciate having issue trying to get a good recharge time and good defense/resistance as well. this would allow for perma hasten with a spiritual core. I suppose though still having some pretty good end issues that wold need to find a work around for.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Initial Strike- (A) Stupefy - Accuracy/Recharge
- (39) Stupefy - Endurance/Stun
- (39) Stupefy - Accuracy/Endurance
- (40) Stupefy - Stun/Range
- (40) Stupefy - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (3) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (3) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (5) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (5) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Red Fortune - Defense
- (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun
- (11) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
- (11) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
- (27) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
- (39) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff
- (A) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Panacea - Heal/Endurance
- (7) Panacea - Hea/Recharge
- (9) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
- (9) Panacea - Heal
- (A) Kinetic Crash - Accuracy/Damage/Knockback
- (27) Kinetic Crash - Damage/Knockback
- (40) Kinetic Crash - Accuracy/Knockback
- (42) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Knockback
- (42) Kinetic Crash - Damage/Endurance/Knockback
- (42) Kinetic Crash - Recharge/Endurance
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (37) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (A) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge
- (13) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff
- (45) Adjusted Targeting - Recharge
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (15) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (21) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (17) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (17) Red Fortune - Defense
- (19) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (19) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (43) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (A) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
- (31) Ragnarok - Damage
- (34) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (23) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (23) Red Fortune - Defense
- (25) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (25) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (45) Karma - Knockback Protection
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (29) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (29) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (31) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (31) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (48) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (50) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (33) Hecatomb - Damage
- (33) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
- (33) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
- (34) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (36) Armageddon - Damage
- (36) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (37) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Encouraged Accuracy - To Hit Buff
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
- (45) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
- (46) Doctored Wounds - Heal
- (46) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
- (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
- (A) Adrenal Adjustment - EndMod
- (A) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
Level 50: Cimeroran Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Void Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 2: Swift- (A) Empty
- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Empty
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
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Ok not much of an experience up to level 6, however with only at the time the starting power in shield defense and the first three powers in SJ I
ran two 0x3 missions did well enough, minus the two times I pulled more then I wanted to by going into scrapper lock and danced close to 25% health or less a few times. Even still It just felt very good and the combos work very well with each other and the vet powers I took of sands of mu/ghost slaying axe was able to build a half way decent running set of moves to keep things going.
Yes sweeping cross is a bit particular in getting the most out of it, but if your used to shadow maul/sands of mu and how that works it shouldn't be anything challenging. My first real issue wasn't with the set to be honest it was forcing myself to get true grit at level 6 and not pick up combat readiness.
For me I know when I forget about my secondary I"m enjoying the set well enough and this is my first time playing both shield and SJ, though YMMV of course -
I am going to well as said on another post go with a SJ/SD scrapper on Guardian I figure. The concept will be a barbarian style character with beast run, thinking the set fits very well with this just primal fighting and natural feel. That and something about doing a shield charge into an uppercut that has me excited
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Just a curious question. From what I understand of SJ it's a very competent set when it comes to chaining for straight forward single target damage. From the numbers posted definately seems like it could do well. So the AOE's are well a bit different or smaller or need to be spaced well to get the full effectiveness. From everything I've seen and it was an idea I had before the set came out. This really would be a prime candidate to tie in with something like shield defense. AOO and it's taunt + damage aura, the quick attack of shield bash and maybe something like gloom to cover it a bit more could really see this set do quite well I figure. Well I am going to test it out at least. The taunt aura may help as well with making sure those mobs come right around me for the aoe swipes as well
Then again I have not really began to number crunch fully dang work and being sick has stopped this. It's a thought that makes sense on loosely what I have read. If anyone has any personal experience with a SJ/SD combo in beta or worked on this themselves would be interested in hearing if this would bring out the potential that this thread seems to say SJ has specially with a scrapper -
Very Very nice heal then I like, can't wait for the defender fix though I'm still a bit of from 32 anyways. For my leveling and slowly building up build I was going to go with IO's for recharge and heal, later on getting the panecea set and sticking that in there for the heal/regen + recharge/end discount. Though a long ways off well maybe not really.. mental note I need to find more time to game glad to hear the recharge is 90's though I was thinking it was all 30 with the way mid was stating
(ok mental note heavy strength cold meds effect my posting I need to learn to lock the keyboard at these times )