D0mbegone

[ QUOTE ]
Crazy fast activation time. (especially tk blast)
Long Range (Most of Psi powers have 80 feet range. With boost range+PVP IO = 4 non-cast snipes!)
Psi Damage.

It's no doubt psi blast is overpowered in pvp zones.


[/ QUOTE ]

How are you being seen on your stalker from far away?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, the Defender version has a trio of hard-hitting single-target attacks that inflict some status effects on top of that.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Blaster version has the same status effects as the Defender version (the notable exception being Subdue got moved to the Mental Manipulation secondary and was replaced with Psi Dart, which has no immobilize). The major differences between the Defender and Blaster versions (speaking from a PvP perspective here) is Will Domination's damage scale got gutted in the Blaster version, and the range on the Blaster attacks is 80 feet, compared to the 100-foot range Defenders have.

[/ QUOTE ]
Blaster versions have longer recharges and shorter durations (or lower mag knockback) though. Will Domination had its damage gutted to the point of being totally worthless (outside of PvP I guess) as a damage power, but to compare the other stats:

Defender: 14s recharge, 23.8s sleep
Blaster: 20s recharge, 19.1s sleep

Also TK Blast:
Defender: 8s recharge, 8.31 mag KB
Blaster: 10s recharge, 6.65 mag KB

Overall, the Blaster psi is pretty crappy:

* The powers got longer recharges, and
* Shorter durations (which is the norm, but the two together rather sucks)
* Will Domination doesn't have the damage it should. With it only mezzing 80%, it's not a damage-dealer OR a mezzing power.
* The set lost its range with no compensation (like porting Claws to Brutes and just flat out stripping the end reduction)
* The immobilize power was replaced with a puny dart
* The cone is removed for Aim, which gives us the only set Blasters have with only one non-nuke AoE

Result is a set that is not very good for AoE (which isn't bad by itself) but also isn't very good for ST. Combine with it not being very good for debuffs or mez, and sprinkle with some highly resistant enemies at high levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sleep duration and kb magnitude being reduced is because of the AT scalars, no other reason.

If you think the sleep duration should be revisited due to longer base rech, all I can say is that very few (if any) powers that have been reworked seem to get any change in their secondary effect.

I agree psi isn't very good for pve, but this is a pvp discussion.

*Will dom does have the damage it should in pvp
*The range reduction does suck, but then again boost range has to be considered and psi is the longest range set for blasters (and arch). I think boost range is a silly power, it is good, but only available once in the whole game? that makes little sense.
*"puny dart" does 30% -rech and is easily stackable. The immob is decent, but every secondary gets on (cept energy)
*cone was removed, but it is also the only blaster set with 4 80' st attacks. It is one of the easiest sets to make a full ranged attack chain (along with arch).
*Set is loaded with control. It is arguably as safe as energy and iceblast combined.

Psi is fine, just different. It is very good in pvp. The set has almost identical st potential as the defender version (had that been ported), if was just shifted around. Losing psyscream hurts, but aim allows it to focus on what the set does best, which is long range st damage.

At full range (80ft) psi out-damages everything else. Flipping back to pve for a sec: At full range there are almost no cones or aoe powers that npc's use, so you only have to deal with their st attacks. At 40ft (ie blaze) you are vulnerable to aoes and cones. It makes a large difference, especially on a pve build that goes for +range def as is common.

For pvp a full 80ft chain is often much more effective than one that requires 40ft at some point. Add boost range (as most pvp'ers use /em) and the disparity grows. You can't run from a psi/em and that is before taking into account the status effects they inflict at full range (sleep, kb, heck even stun if they choose to, but none need it).

Psi is a very well rounded pvp set. Not the most damaging in ideal conditions, but in less than ideal it often is and it has tremendous utility and arguably the best for IO's.

No worries a lot of psi blasters lost ground when tk blast was fixed

You need more kb protection on your build. New doms gonna own you if they can throw you and at 11kb protection, they can.

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, I suppose at the softcap one wouldn't need any of the extra survival tools, huh? I don't think I will be using too many IOs, if any at all, but thanks for the input nonetheless.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't "need" to soft cap it. If you get it a bit above 30% the self heal will let you breeze through pretty much anything.

At softcap though elec/nin is downright disturbing. Very good stalker build.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this. After having done a fire/cold to 50 and a cold/dark to 50, the only thing I can really say I like abou tthe defender version better is that you get sleet at 26 vs 35 for corrs.

lvl 35 is a major PITA. All the other powers seem to come soon enough as a corr to not make much of a difference when playing the def version. Those 9 levels are definitely tangible though.

Benumb comes 10 levels later, but imo isn't a game changer like sleet.

[/ QUOTE ]
The downside of sleet coming earlier for defenders is that your 3rd ST blast in your secondary comes significantly later as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've only paired it with sonic and dark for defs. I think the really late 3rd blast is only a problem for ice and rad (mostly ice tho, cause nut bolt is so fast), the rest seem to be able to fill up on enough st or spammable aoe attacks by ~20, which is basically on par with fire and ice for corrs.

I hear you though, I don't think I could make an /ice def. They are powerful, but 28 is a long road to get BiB.

I generally try to team my defs and corrs most of the time though, so for me the earlier sleet is pretty important. I think I'd have to pl a /cold corr if I do it again. That's just me though. But wow is my fire/cold way stronger than either of my cold defs heh.

They've had a hard time honoring the social contracts they've enacted lately

I for one blame MA, it has sucked up so many resources and so much dev time that everything else is malnourished and starting to look boney.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While the powers are fun, my heart is still in Storm. After shielding and slowing, my Cold def has nothing to protect herself but blasts. Storm lets me defend myself and the other squishies with Gale and of course Hurricane. Cold has no "get away from me" power.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's a reason why my Ice Dom is Energy Blast *winks*

[/ QUOTE ]

True, no "get off me" powers, but it does have "why are you even bothering me" powers with Heatloss, benumb, and infrigidate.

Sadly, infrig is the only spammable one of those and it is the weakest in the "you're now useless so just give up" category.

Earth is very good in pvp. Not the best in most scenarios for doms, but very workable.

The ONLY thing I've ever found to be negative on my earth dom in pvp is that the st hold has just over a 2 sec cast time (though thankfully a much shorter root time, so you can still move while casting it).

If you tend to only be holding pvp foes for ~4 seconds, it sort of sucks to use half that time stuck in one power.

It is often the difference between hitting them twice (say havoc+thunder) before they get free and hitting them once and then having to use ranged attacks.

The -kb in the hold (most other sets don't have this except grav and ice) can work against you too as knocking someone is almost as powerful as holding them now.

I agree with this. After having done a fire/cold to 50 and a cold/dark to 50, the only thing I can really say I like abou tthe defender version better is that you get sleet at 26 vs 35 for corrs.

lvl 35 is a major PITA. All the other powers seem to come soon enough as a corr to not make much of a difference when playing the def version. Those 9 levels are definitely tangible though.

Benumb comes 10 levels later, but imo isn't a game changer like sleet.

[ QUOTE ]
Fire Breath's main advantage is being a pretty decent low-level AoE that combines with Psychic Scream and Fireball to let you output quite solid AoE combo damage earlier than most blasters can. Even if it's not in your final build, it's worth mentioning for the road there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This. For lowish level aoe this is about as good as it gets. And it is pretty good.

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say it's easy, but I don't think it's THAT time consuming. They could proliferate one or two sets every single issue, but choose not to. Perhaps they rather wait untill they can do 5-10 at a time.

Just give claws to Brutes and call it a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be a fan of even 1 or 2 sets now and then. Sure you get people whining "why not x set now?", but better than everyone whining "why not ANY set now?".

When they started doing proliferation I feel like they made it sound like it would occur fairly often. Well more often than once every 6 issues (i12 to i18)

[ QUOTE ]
I'm rolling a /Fire dom for my next outing.

Between it and the GW Patron pool, I'm getting 2 damage buffs and 2 endurance AoEs... now I just gotta figure out my primary...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd go fire/fire, the damage they can produce on live is astounding and test is even higher.

Between consume, dark consume, and domination you should be able to fuel this beast even w/ hotfeet. (assuming stamina and a decent io build).

A decent build should have FE up half the time and Soul drain ~1/3rd. That is a lot of damage.

If not fire control, the plant or earth.

But imo, I say embrace the new damage potential. Fire offers enough control for how fast you'll go through them.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would be curious why so many players consider it a weak set.

[/ QUOTE ]Long animation time is the thing I hear cited the most.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya long animations on an AT jammed full of click powers kinda sucks.

Lethal damage is resisted more than fire and people that play psi generally just avoid the few enemy types that gut their damage.

*assuming you are picking thorny to do decent aoe as the st damage is horrible.

Still skippable, or IO mule.

Few doms would ever open with a snipe (outside of solo) and they aren't part of a regular attack chain.

They can have some use solo, but a dom already stomps solo content so why bother with an awkward and finicky power when you can just pwn faces instead?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that nothing we see on the test server can be taken as a statement one way or the other as to how the changes will affect dom popularity once they go live. To few people read these boards and/or play on the test server to get a good sample population.

[/ QUOTE ]
Many people don't even read patch notes - they won't know anything's changed at all, except they might notice they do a bit more damage or a power recharges more slowly than it does now. Most people, if they find out at all, will find out by word of mouth.

[/ QUOTE ]Unless it gets mentioned in the gmotd. And if people aren't reading that, well, [censored] them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I say a rewrite of the AT description would boost popularity more than the changes made.

That is to say, if chasing a goal as silly as popularity is intended.

Seems like it would be pretty easy to hit 700% + regen on a /pain (cause the aura is regen in pvp rather than pulse heal) AND have the aoe self heal.

That could be pretty good.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to bite here and cross my fingers that it doesnt go awry.
Dominators all have a damage secondary chalk full of melee attacks. Why in the world would a dominator NOT be considered a melee archetype?

[/ QUOTE ]

Blasters have a damage Secondary chock full of melee attacks. (Except Devices, and they can still deal damage with their Secondary, it's just mines placed to go off later) That doesn't make Blasters a melee Archetype.



[/ QUOTE ]

Blasters were specifically adjusted not so long ago to feel less pressure to use melee attacks. It was part of their fix.

We aren't saying Dominators are a melee archetype, just that they are often pushed into melee range to play, similar to how blasters used to be.

I'm specifically saying doms have a lot more tools than blasters to make melee safe, but those tools usually aren't developed until the mid20's. Unfortunately the pressure to utilize melee attacks begins at lvl 4 for many doms.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to bite here and cross my fingers that it doesnt go awry.
Dominators all have a damage secondary chalk full of melee attacks. Why in the world would a dominator NOT be considered a melee archetype?

Bigger Hp was one of the suggestions I voiced in the " speculation" phase. 1606 cap is too low for what dominator's do. In fact? If the hp cap had been raised and everything else had minimal adjustments than the feel of the dominator would have been the same but with more survivability for layman players. After all the developers spent a good number of issues improving dom performance by buffing the means to build domination.

I have always objected to the complete change of the feel of the archetype. I dont like it at all but can certainly live with it. I simply wish the dom "looksee" hadnt ended in a total "revamp". I like my old carpet. Stanley Steamer would have been just fine instead of putting in hardwood floors.

Is of no consequence. The path is set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the majority of dom assault sets struggle with ranged chains until lvl 38 and the fact that the melee attacks are HIGHLY attractive to either fill chains or deliver very powerful damage is a pretty clear indication that most people are going to feel pressure to stand at melee range.

As I said though, it usually isn't until the mid 20's or later that most doms have the primary developed enough to do that on teams, but using melee attacks becomes ingrained into their playstyle as early as level 4.

See one main problem is that Dom's need to use melee range in the early levels because fighting from range leaves long periods of doing nothing.

However, it takes until at least the mid 20's (earlier for say plant, later for grav) before their control powers can support them standing in melee.

Late game doms with mature controls and assault powers are awesome on live and potentially more awesome on test.

Doms are pretty useless if they don't take and use their melee attacks in the early levels when they team, but at level 15 their controls aren't good enough for them to be in melee range when teaming so they faceplant.

That of course hasn't changed between live or test and will continue to be a sore spot for the AT.

Experience players can overcome that weakness by jumping in and out of melee. It works very well, just as it works very well for blasters. It is of course not something that can be expected of a casual player and falls under the same line of reasoning made by the people that used to be able to milk old defiance.

Amazing if you can do it, but the avg player can't. So it needs to be changed.

Interestingly enough, I'd like to take a crack at old defiance on blasters now that you can so easily build for plus defense. I think it would be very fun (but again not casual friendly, just something I think would be fun to try out).

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The last prediction I made is that these changes won't have an overwhelming result on dominator popularity. I still stand behind that. They've been designed to be a solo AT now more than ever, but they are nowhere near the top of the solo list. Doms need to become a popular team AT to significantly increase numbers, these changes move them in the opposite direction.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe Dominators could become a popular team AT in the way in which you wish unless their Secondary is changed into something else. Defenders have the same issue. Their role in a team is to deal supplemental damage. Many players, however, either do not want them to deal that damage, or want their role to be something else.

These Power changes don't really address the problem of a Dominator's role on a team, although it does make it more consistent. It is really more of a use in making all the Power Sets equally soloable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know and said just that. To become popular they need an actual revamp, but for w/e reason Castle has specifically stated no power substitutions, or changing the basic principle of a power.

I disagree that their role in a team is supplemental damage. It used to be. But now they have been deemed dual role by the dev team. Dual role means they should be able to play either role effectively. Unfortunately aoe damage rules the roost in teams, and doms are st specialists.

As such will never become popular in teams as damage dealers. And their primaries remain unchanged, which struggled to gain grip as incentive enough to make them popular in teams. Basically the perception that crowd control is anti brute and that it is overall less desirable than buff/debuff. Of course that perception is grounded in accuracy.

Ergo, no meaningful shift in popularity of doms in team scenarios.

And they will still be less popular than brutes, MM's, and probably stalkers for solo play. So no significant jump in solo popularity despite becoming very awesome solo.

Result: no significant increase in dominator popularity. And one could take the position that they were changed for change sake...But that will be a hindsight argument to be had in a year or so

[ QUOTE ]
Ditzy...err...Southern Comfort said:

[ QUOTE ]
For the record ,everything I predicted when these changes were in the speculation stage has come to fruition. Isn't my problem you arent astute enough to recognize that FACT.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was sent ot me in a PM, but now I'm ignored (yay me!) so I could not respond. Instead, I wanted to post it so everyone here could get a nice chuckle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of what Ditzy did say in that thread was accurate. Some of it was hard to understand as she was quite upset, but that didn't change the accuracy.

Most of what I said in that thread was accurate too:
-I predicted the exact changes to /eng
-I predicted the changes to psy and how it would rank releative to the other sets. (didn't predict he'd put scream and psw on melee modifier to offset it though )
-I predicted this wouldn't change the perception that high recharge is the most desireable build. And it hasn't.

The last prediction I made is that these changes won't have an overwhelming result on dominator popularity. I still stand behind that. They've been designed to be a solo AT now more than ever, but they are nowhere near the top of the solo list. Doms need to become a popular team AT to significantly increase numbers, these changes move them in the opposite direction.

Ditzy was saying a lot of the same things as me, it was just hard to understand them as she was understandably quite upset.

The epic archetypes are generally excluded from popularity lists.

Looking at i17 now. Didn't think power proliferation would be a once in a blue moon thing, but what are you gonna do.

(extra points for moderate necro)

qr

either stalkers or doms. Unfortunately despite a massive overhaul as well stalkers are still pretty much on life support.

If they are ahead of doms now, they probably won't be after the i15 dom buffs. Not that I really think i15 dom changes will make much of a difference to dom population (relative to the game), just that both AT's are so low that even a small change is "significant".

Considering "popularity" governs who gets looked at I guess stalkers can expect further buffs at some point.

The scars are still pretty fresh over this one

The pet recharge nerf was handled by them in the same way they have gone about handling other recent fallouts in this game. Not well.

It left a fair number of people feeling they were either being lied to or that information was being omitted for some other reason.

Straight up lied to, or a lie of omission. Thank goodness for the unwavering dev apologists who got us all through that one