From the snippets I've picked up, */Fire and */Psi have less separation between them now, and are both equally valid choices. Fire's got the advantage that it still puts out fairly solid ranged ST damage as well, but */Psi didn't exactly lose it's AoE status... it just got the field changed from spamming just one button and reaping the benefits.
As for */Thorn, I don't think it got enough of a boost to really topple any of the other two, but it might still be able to actually compete. Hopefully someone with a more detailed analysis will come through, though! As I'd be rather curious myself to get the general consensus on this matter in one location for easy reference. :3
I'm rolling a /Fire dom for my next outing.
Between it and the GW Patron pool, I'm getting 2 damage buffs and 2 endurance AoEs... now I just gotta figure out my primary...
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Yogi - I'd recommend ice or gravity. Ice gives you control powers that makes you want to remain in the middle of things (good for combustion, soul drain, consume and dark consumption), and a solid pet who'll stand in the same basic district. Gravity lets you herd stuff for your AoEs and puts less pressure on you to pick up its vital powers and slot them up in the early game.
(I'm mainly just recommending gravity to see if anyone has a heart attack)
lol, coronaries... I'm kinda leaning away from Ice being that I've 50'ed one and have and Ice/Elec that I'm toying with.
I'll take a peek at Grav, see what it's got...
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
A lot of meh powers, but the important thing is, the only real essential powers in the set come at 26 and 32. Prior to that point it's all your secondary and pools.
I might actually have to go Plant/ ; between Seeds and a proc'ed Carrion Creepers... looks too interesting to pass up; I think I have one that I put on hold while 50ing a Brute.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Oh, sure, if you want to have good powers, I suppose. I'd also advocate mind/.
Wormhole and Singularity looked pretty darn good too but as you said; the rest were a bit too meh 
[on second thought, not really... Lift looks cool; they put off the multi-immob til later though; looks like it blooms a tad to late for my tastes]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
A Fire/Psi permadom is still the best AoE damage combo for Dom's. Imps , Fire Cages, Flash Fire, PSW, and Psychic Scream FTW!!!
Thorns might be a good a PvP choice now, but just doesn't cut if for PvE aoe, IMHO. But in general Dom's AoE capabilities were limited across the board, not just in Psi. I have a feeling that was done to make building dom quickly, while not in battle much harder.
Fire/Fire is (and was) a good second choice. Plant/Ice (or psi) and Earth/anything, may offer some interesting possibilities as well.
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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A Fire/Psi permadom is still the best AoE damage combo for Dom's. Imps , Fire Cages, Flash Fire, PSW, and Psychic Scream FTW!!!
Thorns might be a good a PvP choice now, but just doesn't cut if for PvE aoe, IMHO. But in general Dom's AoE capabilitiesies were limited across the board, not just in Psi. I have a feeling that was done to make building dom quickly, while not in battle much harder.
Fire/Fire is (and was) a good second choice. Plant/Ice (or psi) and Earth/anything, may offer some interesting possibilities as well.
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Between Psychic Scream and PSW you might not even need Flash Fire - that's -100% Recharge on the critters.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Thorns has the same powers as Spines/ for a scrapper (kinda of same animations and area of effects).
I would be curious why so many players consider it a weak set. Despite the slow animations, my Spines/ scrappers tear through spawns at a really high speed.
The only reason I would see see /Thorns being bad is if the damage are really low compared to a scrapper.
With the new global dmg buffs to the dominator AT, I was wondering if I could find some of my scrapperish carnage feelings in a /Thorn domi.
Anyone playing the set, or having tested it with i15 change has some idea about it ?
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I would be curious why so many players consider it a weak set.
[/ QUOTE ]Long animation time is the thing I hear cited the most.
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I would be curious why so many players consider it a weak set.
[/ QUOTE ]Long animation time is the thing I hear cited the most.
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Ya long animations on an AT jammed full of click powers kinda sucks.
Lethal damage is resisted more than fire and people that play psi generally just avoid the few enemy types that gut their damage.
*assuming you are picking thorny to do decent aoe as the st damage is horrible.
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I'm rolling a /Fire dom for my next outing.
Between it and the GW Patron pool, I'm getting 2 damage buffs and 2 endurance AoEs... now I just gotta figure out my primary...
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I'd go fire/fire, the damage they can produce on live is astounding and test is even higher.
Between consume, dark consume, and domination you should be able to fuel this beast even w/ hotfeet. (assuming stamina and a decent io build).
A decent build should have FE up half the time and Soul drain ~1/3rd. That is a lot of damage.
If not fire control, the plant or earth.
But imo, I say embrace the new damage potential. Fire offers enough control for how fast you'll go through them.
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I would be curious why so many players consider it a weak set.
[/ QUOTE ]Long animation time is the thing I hear cited the most.
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Thorns actually has more AoEs then any other set (a ranged cone, PBAoE, a melee cone, and technically Thorntrops contributes damage [BWAHAHAHA! I'm sorry, I couldn't help giggling - the DoT period rends it's DPS laughable]), but because it has so many options.. it loses the major benefit of activation time, slotting, and endurance management cutting into it.
Thorny Assault - 201 damage in 6.8s for 39 endurance (Note: Does not include Thorntrops)
Firey Assault - 133 (248 in FE) damage in 5.67s for 28 endurance
Psionic Assault - 107 damage in 4.64s for 21.9 endurance
That's just the current live numbers, though - I'd have to actually go through and play on Test again to get the new numbers, but it boils down to that Psi and Fiery are capable of far higher bursts for far less slotting then Thorny is, and don't take it up the back-end for Endurance as well.
I've always been a bit confused as to why Thorn wasn't considered for most AoE figures, either, until I stopped to look at the end/activation times. :/
(Sidebar: If someone wants to redo my figures including the current Test numbers, I'd be ecstatic. 
)
EDIT: Also forgot to point out that Thorny requires far more total positioning then Firey or Psionic Assault do, as well, which was (in addition to PSW being a freak) one of the main benefits that Psi had for so long. It required no shuffling of position at all.
Further EDIT: Thought about it, and the reason Spines/* does so well for scrappers (less so for stalkers - curse you, Assassin Strike!), is that it has two significantly ranged AoEs (Throw Spines and Spine Burst), one of which is PBAoE (183 damage), and the presence of Quills (10 damage/tick) means you don't have to reposition as much. With, say, Blazing Aura or Death Shroud (and an Immobilize), you get vastly more AoE potential (23 damage/tick auras) of Firey Assault (ranged cone, PBAoE on ridiculous activation time), while still hitting harder and only having to slot 2 powers heavily for damage/recharge/acc. Endurance'll be a concern, but Fiery in particular has Consume to compensate for that (Dark just has to eat it). If you're any other secondary, though, the damage aura consideration is moot. Also worth pointing out Fiery has a second Build Up (Fiery Embrace doubles fire damage for 30s, but still provides a Build Up effect for 10s on damage for everything else).
Thorn Burst, Ripper and Fling Thorns are the exact mirrors of Spine Burst, Ripper and Throw Spines for my spine scrappers.
The activation times are not a valid point for me, nor the fact that lethal is more resisted, because I know my Spines/ scrapper tear through spawns faster than other melee toons, despite having the same long animations as a /Thorny dom, and the same dmg type. The only thing missing on a /Thorn dom is Quills, which contributes also alot to AoE damage. (And also Build up for burst AoE, replaced by Aim for a /thorns)
I was thinking a Fire/Thorn dominator could be the mirror of a Spine/* scrapper, having Hot Feet instead of Quills (Hot Feet is certainly better !), and Fire controls instead of a defense/resistance or regen secondary.
I could be wrong in one case I can see clearly : if /thorn AoE damage is still really low compared to a Spine/ dmg on a scrapper, even with the new buff.
Looking at the numbers in Mids, and applying a 40% dmg boost for the dom :
- Fling Thorns/Throw Spines : 68.5 for the dom, 100 for the scrapper.
- Thorn Burst : 71.3 for the dom, 82 for the scrapper.
- Ripper : 146 for the dom, 167 for the scrapper.
We can see here that Fling Thorn is the main problem, its dmg is much too low compared to a scrapper Throw Spines. However the 2 other AoEs are not so far !
However the dominator has the Fire Imps to compensate from this lower dmg on Fling Thorns vs Throw Spines. And he has much better Patron power pool choices : soul drain for a nearly perma build up, and dark obliteration for one more AoE dmg power on a 15' radius !
Could be my i15 build
Edit : another point I just noticed, /Thorny does -DEF instead of -SPD and -RECH from Spines/. So you can slot one or several -RES achille heels proc to boost the dmg more.
S'all about what makes you happy, I sez.
They're all very competitive, just that Fire and Psi are closer to the top-end then Thorny is (for the most part). If you'll be happier with a Fire/Thorn, by all means. :3 It'll definately stay competitive, unless someone's got figures showing otherwise.
Well I already have a Fire/Psi. I planned to unslot her, and level a new dom with i15. Not that I'm mad about the PSW change at all... I played this toon alot and spamming PSW became boring anyway. I havent played her for months now.
My question is more about my new powerset picks, and I dont consider Fire/Psi again as an option, because obviously I need a change.
I'd prefer to have this new dom strong on the AoE side. By experience I know I dont play too long my single target specialists.
It will probably be Fire/ or Plant/ for the primary, and /Fire or /Thorny for the secondary. Maybe /Ice could be fun too...
Still not sure
I personally like Plant for the added control, but Fire does have the more useful (and less wonky) pet. And can get the job done, though I'm not exactly fond of how it does it.
Do what I do in such times - roll a six-sided die and go with whatever your gut decides on anyway. Or whatever comes up on the roll.
Until now /Psi has been an indisputable choice for any dom who wants strong AoE damage. And /Thorns could never be a serious rival for this matter, despite its 3 AoE powers.
With i15 changes, which secondary will be the new choice for AoE damage in your opinion ? Will /Psi still remain the best choice, despite PSW being considerably weakened, or can /Thorns be a serious challenger now ? /Fire, /Ice... can they be strong too with the new damage scale ?
Which primary will be the best to pair it with ? Fire/ seems to offer the best AoE damage with Hot Feet, but Plant/ and Earth/ come also with serious AoE control and lockdown...
What is your opinion ? Which dom would you roll in i15 for serious AoE carnage... Or do you think that the era of AoE doms is over ?