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I think the only issue lies in your (and anyone elses) thinking you have the ability to know what is best for all. The best "power" for a job sure. The best slow or debuff power in a particular set.. sure speak on it, but assuming that one set/set combo is best regardless of the person behind the toon is a bad way to go about coaching. Such practice HAS created more bad players than good players since I13. As you say... don't shoot the messenger
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This is far from the truth. If someone comes looking for the best blaster build the answer is psi em. Even if the player in question may be the best son/mm ever he would still be better on a psi em. The best is the best for a reason. To think otherwise is absurd. Now mind you we do get a ton of really bad people on psi ems and other fotms but that is user error. And there is no advice we can here to fix bad. And no telling them to be a flying tp foeing grav psi dom or a cage the spike sonic defender is NOT an option.
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They took heal spamming away and it seems people forgot how to think.... The "Anti-Spiking" I refer to is no code but a practice of preventing your less able bodied teammates form getting spiked repeatedly.
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Literally the only thing that stop a good clean spike is a lightning fast heal + hiber or phase. There is nothing you can do or teach to stop a spike in this version of pvp in zone. In arena evasion still has a place but in zones its no go. To think otherwise is also absurd.
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Mac might downplay the effectiveness of -damage powers or -perception powers or AoE attacks when one toon is using it, but 3 or 4 of those powers coordianated has been shown to work time and time again.
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-Damage powers are great and I have never heard mac down play them. The truth is though they are usually great for aspects other than the -damage. benumb and he come to mind instantly and there are others. The only decent aoes in the game are mezzes and ball lightning. And a team spamming aoes could more than likely have dropped a single target or two in the time they managed to mildly antogonize 3 or 4 targets with aoe spam.
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We promote phase and hibernate because we gave up on the idea of defensive teaming (so to speak) Every toon MUST fend for themselves right? You're saying the Devs made us play this way?
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Without phase and hiber in zone you will die a lot more than with it. And until pvp becomes about something more than k and d they will be pretty much mandatory. And trust me this is completely on the devs changes on this one. Pre i13 I had a total of 2 toons with phase(both stalkers) and 2 with hiber(one was an ice tank). Post change I have a total of 2 pvp toons without either. And I hate it. I used to play with no 'escape' power and no heals on almost every toon I played regualarly and I would prefer to still play that way. Sadly that is no longer an option and not of my choosing. Unless I want to choose to be grossly more ineffective.
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I PvP. Meaning I fight against players not toons. My /SR gets stronger at lower HP so I built for it.... lower HP attracts PvPers to try and get a kill. I stand in NPC mobs.... My defense is too much for most of NPCs in zones and doing so builds fury fast while attracting players to try and get an easy kill. I aggro. I get players to group up and try to attack me... in the process, smart teammates use me to their advantage.
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Show me a brute with no taunt that stands in npcs and I will show you the kick button pretty damn fast. Its not hard to take taunt and learn your role. Kinda funny seeing you are the dude preaching role based pvp that you don't even do it right when you get the chance.
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For anyone who agrees with this statement please keep in mind that the game has a design based on AT roles
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Please keep in mind that pvp has absolutley no correlation with pve. And even if it did by that theory super teams that trivalize the game should work in pvp.
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These roles are described on the character creation screen btw. Maybe it's time we all took a step back and started over with these thing in mind. If a damage spamming Blaster, scrapper , or stalkers s the role yo widsh to play, cool... but we should stop telling ourselves that these are the only roles out there. (generalized but you get my point)
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The fact you think those roles described there even have to do with pve is very telling, the fact you think it should carry over to pvp is even moreso. Just so you know there are people like Steatoda who are really out there that reinvent the wheel. You could take a cue from such players and look to viable alternatives to the 'in the box' pvp you despise. Just don't think you will shake the whole system at its roots. Its the foundation for a reaon, its tried and tested and proven to be effective.
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Shouldn't the best team be the one with the best players? the team with the best PvP skill, knowledge of team strengths and weakness, and the team that does a better job of PvPing as a team?
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you are aware that all those things don't all necessarily go hand in hand right? There are plenty of skilled pvpers who couldn't make a build to save their souls. There are plenty of teams with great teamwork who don't always win. You seem like you have pugged on slow servers or so infrequently that you don't really understand any more what good pvp and good pvpers are. Maybe you should take a step back and reassess what the real goals of pvp are and what the being successful and good really mean.
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mean isn't that why they can make up rules about no "all stalker" teams and no this and that... to prevent bad teams from winning based solely on stacking one tactic? I could speculate as well like you did on whether there would be a winner but the only real way to find out would be to ask the bestest arena folks to try it and get back to us.
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All stalker teams would pretty much be a joke and ran as a tie team not as a get a kill and hide team. Once a team for it was made known the other teams would bring forts and the farm would be on.
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I agree that a standard and stale Jump team consisting of the same proven tactic and the same builds would beat a random and varied set up of toons. I don't think I gave any impression otherwise though you see you seem to act as if I did.
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Then why offer up the suggestion they switch to sub optimal teams in the first place? You gave the impression that if talked into it it would alter the very state of arena pvp. In truth we would get what merc said, lots of ties and super low scores.
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The devs cannot change this mentality with ruleset changes or fixes. PvPers can. It's as simply as saying "hey, we made up another rule!"
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Ironically you found one of mine and I am pretty sure a few others peeve with arena. I hate rules that are forced. I think needing to check a box for good pvp is just as retarded someone wanting me to not use inspires. What the high end pvpers use for arena
SHOULD be the stock rules for zone pvp. Pure and simple. If I had a vote that is what I would pick. I just kind of boycott the arena for the most part as my own protest against it all.
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Fun is the point. Ask yourself the same question for PvE, and then ponder why instead of everyone playing the same 8 combos... people have this weird habit of picking and playing with what they want out of 100s of poweset combos to choose from.
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Now define how someone has fun. Do they ahve fun losing? Probably not. Just because you think its cool to fly around and maybe sorta occassionly disrupt something don't think its what the average pvper is going to find fun. I am something of a disrution specialist and I would only encourage someone to play some of the toons I do if they showed express interest in it. Most of the people who came here to look for help are looking for a very small window of help not enlightenment. They are more than likely looking for help with a blaster a dom a scrapper or a stalker. And newsflash its so they can get kills. Its how it works. Sorry this is a letdown to you but it is what it is and no amount of your revalation will every change it. But fight the good fight, I am sure you need to feel like you are helping the cause to care on.
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Mediore setup vs Mediore setup match = as much competition and fun as an uber setup vs uber setup. It's likely it may not be as fun to some dependant on cookie cut builds and FoTM because it just may require a lot more thought and skill from some peeps who haven't used either in some time
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Its called kickball, happens all the time. We can call happy dahjee fun time if it will make you feel special though.
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uber setup vs mediocre setup means the uber setup will win, but it also means it will be copied, pasted, and end up turning high end arena into a bunch of the same doing the same and... oh wait... I think arena has reached that point already. Given the fact that arena is the closet to Pre-I13 one can get... and given the fact that most organized matches will run with those settings... and given the fact that there is far far far less viable sets to succeed with there... bah. What I'm getting at will stir too many emotions so I'll leave it to you all to get the point I was about to make.
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If you think its as simple as loading up a fotm with loot and getting 8 mouth breathers to be good at arena pvp you are again pretty damn clueless. Get off your duff and go level all these things you pretend so much to know about. And come find out how easy it is. There is a reason not everyone does, because not everyone can. You may end up being the best psi em team blaster ever to play the game, but my magic 8 ball told me to not hold my breath.
As usual fun playing with you dodgy, see you next time teddy bear <3