Cognito

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Why the vitriol from others? Loads of the congrats to whoever posted in the various forums on their latest 50s are for toons that are powerlevelled.

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i think the negative comments are coming more because the people posting about the 50's are making it sound like a big impressive thing.. they dont think it is imprssive PL'ing a character to 50 then bragging about doing it i guess. personally dont see the point in it at all but if thats how people wanna play doesnt bother me.

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Boasting about this "acheivement" is pretty sad. Critising it is not much better.

If they did it by normal teaming it would necessitate playing every waking hour since I12 came on line. Im not sure I could really congratulate anyone for that, either.

Whilst it is interesting that someone has chosen this path, to PL a VEAT to 50 (I presume it was powerlevelling, rather than many days without sleep),

I dont think of it as accomplishment or anything to be applauded, or feel proud of. So I cant really congratulate you. On the other hand, it doesnt hurt anybody else, so its not to be critised either, or indeed to feel ashamed about or anything else.

Im rather befuddled by this whole thread really!

I offer my complete and utter neutrality to the whole thing. Mildly interesting, mind, so worth posting.

To complement damage, fire armour, no arguments. The next alternative would probably be elec, followed by dark. Non granite stone would probably follow, with SR and Invun bottom of the pack (SR just higher than invun).

For survivability, Granite Armour is the best (but will give you the worst damage).

Otherwise, it simply depends on who you are teaming with. Invun and Dark shine in teams due to AoE effects (def buff and mezzing). Elec is great if you can get support.

Ah that makes sense.. yep I have no difficulty with 71% melee defence using that parry power (name still escapes me!)

Its how Stalky got 71% defence to ranged that beats me!!!

I cant seem to put that into Mids without crashing

Are you including the "parry" power into melee defence?

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a bright chap like you

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woohoo!

Yep, quite right, I should have been specific about 40% better defensive mitagtion. In my defence, it probably is self evident from the context of my post, but I should have been more specific!

Managed to get up to 68% defence on Mid's! but thats with weave. Given you have had a lot longer to eek out a few extra % I can buy you got 71%!, although how you did it is a mystery!

EDIT: Actually I would say that Ninjitsu gains more damage mitigation than SR. However, my veiw is that SR will do more damage, due to the +recharge. Unless your heaviest attack, placate, AS, and build up recharge as soon as the animation has completed!

SR seems largely balanced around Quickness, IMO.

Again, in PvP, I would say Ninjitsu without a doubt. A maxed out PvP build gains, what +60 to +75% accuracy from purple set bonuses alone, making defence largely a laughable bonus to my eyes. (not really a PvPer).

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Oh and your numbers on getting hit are wayyyy off, many more mobs red side have +tohit than heroside AND you failed to mention that you were talking about even con mob accuracy.

As for 40% better damage mitigation than ninj you are talking total [censored] and trying to skew things to fit your opinion, as I mentioned, ninj has many other forms of mitigation outside of straight defence

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OK can I just check my maths here, I may have made an error - please correct me:

Mob's chance to hit

(50 - your defence + to hit buff) x accuracy

Lets say accuracy is a constant "a", to hit buff is a contant "t"

SR running 39% defence

Mob's chance to hit you is (11 + t) x a = 11a + ta

Ninjitsu running 31% defence

Mobs chance to hit you is (19 + t) x a = 19a + ta

Now with t=zero (no mob to hit buff)

SR chance of getting hit is 11a
Ninj chance of getting hit is 19a

Discounting a from the equation, 11/19 is 0.58, or SR will take 60% of the average damage that Ninjistu will.

I would suggest your comment that I havent included "even con" enemies is realeted to the pre-scaling defence days. With the new to hit formula, level of mobs is irrelevent in value of defence, and the proportional advantage of SR over ninjitsu remains constant irrespective of enemy mobs. Please correct any maths.

YOu make, however, a valid point about mob to hit buffs. I am not entirely sure how they fit in to "to hit chances" so I would be delighted if you enlighten me. However, given the above equation you would be correct in saying that the presence of to hit buffs will incrementally diminish SR's relative advantage over Ninjitsu.

Please correct my maths / understanding, otherwise, I humbly submit my figures are not way (or, as you so eloquently propose, "wayyyyy") off.


I should also make absolutely clear I have never mentioned Ninjitsu's other damage mitigation. My original post was entirely constricted to pointing out some of the maths of SRs defensive advantage, the +recharge effect of SR incrementing damage output, and SR's resistance (which I ascribed a very low value too). So please dont drag other aspects of ninjistu into the equation when you are refuting me.

Could you post a build? I cant see how you can get 71% defence outside teir 9 power (exceot for AoE defence when hide is active of course).

I should clarify Im not saying SR is better than ninjistu, or visa versa. (As far as PvP goes I would choose ninjistu without a doubt).

I would disagree, +Recharge does equate to +damage unless you are at the recharge cap. Unless you are being mezzed, of course.

EDIT: Ive tried fiddling around with Mid's to see how you can come up with a 71% defence. I can't do it, unless you are talking about AoE defence from hide. Even with unlimited influence I just can get anywhere remotely near that.

Thanks for the polite response. an "I disagree" would have done.

Id be interested how you get 71% defence outside of the tier 9 power. And if you are talking teir 9, is it perma?

SR effects on damage : +recharge
Ninj effects on damage: Caltrops

IMO SR will do more damage than Ninjitsu

Just anote about defence balues. Taking the above aprox 31% ninjitsu bs 39% SR...

On first glance you might think That makes SR about 25% better than ninjistu...

Now look at actually how often you get hit:

Ninjistu will get hit about 19% of incoming attacks
SR will get hit about 11% of incoming attacks

That makes SR about 40% better damage mitigation that ninjistu.

From a perspective of reducing incoming damage, the closer to the "Cap" you get, the greater the relative value.

Finally, /SR does more damage than /Ninjistu, as you have +recharge. The additional bonus to AS, Placate, and Build up should not be discounted lightly IMO.


(Additional note: nobodies mentioned SR's resistance bonus: Not a lot to shout about, but its there)

Poison for PvP of soloing. It has mainly Single Target Effects.

TA Shines in BIG groups. Whilst the individual effects are weaker, most of them (Entangle, Acid, and Ice arrow the exceptions) have absolutely HUGE areas of effect, meaning you will "Catch" most or all of the enemy every time.

So it depends what you want to play.

I cant see jump kick.

I was wondering about an Archery/Mental Blaster... any thoughts? would redraw be too painful?

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Strange, the hordes of happy traps Corruptors with their incredible arsenal of undeniable might is absent on the server I play on. And players never ask for them either.

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Which largely demonstrates the "Incredible Stupidity of the Masses"™ rather than any weakness in /traps.

While i do think its odd that Corruptor traps has the same numbers as the MM version, it is by no means weak. Its strengths are somewhat concealed by its static nature and longish recharges. But don't tell anyone because then we'll start to see the real nerfs

Time bomb still needs sorting though

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The thing with traps is, that IF you spend enough to plotting the perfect trap, you end up with probably better than any other set there is. Any encounter that starts of with a couple of trip mines, caltrops, poison gas, and an acid mortar chugging out its doom is at an arguably greater advantage than any other secondary set.

Also note that ALL of these are AoE effects, meaning *technically* its a monster in big teams. Add to that the awesomness of FFG in big teams (it really is damm amazing and if a big team doesent worship an AoE mez resistance that can be detoggled aside from giving team +def) it needs its head examining.

TO balance this it really does need some problems. Long recharges, set up times etc.

PS Isnt the Auto Turret getting a fairly major buff anyway? That should compensate for Poison Gas Trap (which will remain a very robust power)

Struggling set?

*looks at FFG, Poison Gas Trap, Acid Mortar*

Nope, cant see it.

Now TA on the other hand...

there are two specs ops, not one. And they use AoE powers, not ST.

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1. Inflation of prices.

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This is not true.Have a look at market report from January till March and you will release if farming inflates prices or not.Farming is the factor that keeps prices down due to increased supply of goods.

Its the equivelant of having 10 factories producing product x.Suddenly government shuts down 5 of them and product x supply is cut by half while demand is same and keeps increasing.Guess where the prices go.

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I dont know where the market reports are, so I dont have hard figures.

Whilst Farming increases supply of Purples recipes, it also supplies farmers with vast amounts of influence (from both Purples and raw inf from farming).

So whilst supply increases, the system is awash with far more influence. If both of these were in equilibrium, then there would be no net effect, but the inf supply is concentrated primarily on influence.

You cannot look at "supply" only. Your analogy doesnt including the money printing press.

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If you want a non-farming team, create a damn team, its not difficult anyone can do it. In fact lots of people do, I do and I hate leading teams. There are plenty of people who like playing the game because they like playing the game not because they want to make X XP/Prestige/Inf and hour.

I getting a little sick of the mind set that seems to think that everything should be provided for you and if it isn't then people who aren't doing what you want should be nerfed. I have spent quite a bit of time in Peregrin recently as I have two mid forty characters who need to get to fifty just like everyone else. Even if everyone else in the zone is farming they aren't actually doing me any harm, why the hell should I expect them to have their enjoyment ruined because I'm not teaming with them.

That seems to be the new mantra, if I don't like something I want to force everyone else out of the game.

/rant

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There seems to be a veiw that "As farming doesnt effect me, then let em get on with it".

It does effect you. The only question is the degree to which it does.

1. Inflation of prices.
2. Diffculty getting non farming teams at high levels (due to lesser availability of people).
3. Unsolicited invites to farm or fill.

You may find the degree to which these effects you vary - you may even find them positive (although I cant see how), but farming effects everyone.

I dont find it a problem until level 40+ when everyone and there cousin is just farming / PLing.

I do find the fact that 90%+ of every 8 man team nowadays has a fire/kin in at, at any level.

Im really keeping my fingers crossed for a farming fix soon, or as a less preferred option, a rebalancing of fire/kins. Unfortunately, I suspsct it will be the latter rather than the former, almost inevitably once datamining occurs. But this will be better than nothing.

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Thinking about it - excluding pets Illusion probably is at the bottom with Earth and Ice as it only has 2 ST attacks and really needs Air Sup to give it a good attack chain.

Fire is king with Hotfeet and Fire Cages leaving Mind and Grav to fight over 2nd place.
Playing Grav you need to spam Crushing Field to whittle down the minions while you use Propel on the bosses and lieuts, this is effective but really needs a debuff secondary for it to work such as Rad.
Mind would involve Mass Hypnosis and Terrify while using Mesmerize, Levitate and Dominate on the bosses and lieuts.

I would expect Mind to win personally.

I know that the OP said excluding secondary but if you did include the secondary an FS boosted terrify would destroy mobs at a rate that the Grav couldn't touch - so again from a real play perspective for me it's Mind.

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I really must emphasise... Grav's Single Target damage absolutely wipes the floor with any other Primary. Propel has absolutely *sickening* damage that can often wipe 2/3 or more of a minions health with one blast. Add to that the very respectable lift, along side curshiing feild, and you have an attack chain that really cant be beat.

Mind was a respectable second place - and of course there are times when heavily smash resistant foes would cause it to exceed Grav's damage - but when facing Robots, Mind control was painful.

According to Mid's, Propel does almost twice as much damage as Mesmerize and Dominate. Both sets have a "Lift" power that is carbon copied, so you cant compare. Mesmerise does equal to Crushing feild, and DOminate actually does slightly *less* damage than the Grav Hold.

Mind does have Terrify as an AoE power but with a 40 second base recharge, this is not much in terms of Single Target damage.

So do the maths: Discounting resistances, Grav is FAR superior to Mind in terms of single target damages, mainly by virtue of an additional ST power that is 190% damage of the ST holds/sleeps/immobilises. And it only has an 8 second recharge, meaning it does 10x the rate of ST damage than Terrify.

Aside from Maths, I can say from Practical experience that Grav really does outdo Mind interms of ST damage. Mind has better control, however, to compensate.

(NB This is exluding Pets, which gives Grav even more ST damage compared to mind)

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I have a fire/kin at 40+ who I like playing (non-farmer), and a pair of mind/rad at 20+ and a pair of grav/rad at 14... I wanted to make a pair of ???/Rad to play for all out damage, because its a duo it plays quite differently from a solo character so I'd prefer to steer clear from fire... but with more character slots...

Or I could play on Union, but then I have no resources.

I'll have to see.

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So why the "No pets" stipulation? Illusion does better damage than Grav once you factor in the PAs & Phanty.

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Sure? My Grav troller outdamaes in terms of ST damage my Illusion controller. Mid's also suggests Grav outdamages Illusion. I know its hard to compare, as Illusion is unresisted psionic damage, but also has a tendency to dissapear...

But from personaly experience, the only troller I havent played is Ice, and Grav does most ST damage quite clearly in my eyes. This is pre-last teir pet anyway.

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Id rather take a well played stalker on a team than a badly played anything else...

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So would I, but then I'd rather play with a good player with six slotted brawl and jump kick (with end reducers)than a bad one without.

AoE = fire, due to hot feet
ST = Grav (mainly propel but also lift for a complete attack chain)

This is excluding Pets, of course. Fire Imps do most damage, but on flip side, they are most vulnerable to getting snuffed out.