Chaplain_EU

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Empath on his own = poor.

2 Blasters on their own vs 4 Stalkers = Quite poor.

2 Blaster + 1 Empath vs 4+ Stalkers = Win.

Balancing is completely borked.

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I freely admit to not being a 'l33t' PvP player, but in my own experience, PvP is far from that predictable. Perhaps it becomes so at the very highest levels.

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Dont worry, i freely admit to not being a good PvPer. (OMG you used 1337 sp34k therefor you must be lying about not being a good player!!!!eleven!!)

My point in this instance is that 1 player, an Empath, can turn the tables so completely on what was a one sided bout. Not just make it more even, i mean totally send the balance the otehr way. CM+Tactics = big problem for stalkers. Add Fort on each of their likely targets and they were really struggling. As i said in the toehr post. Empath + 2 Blaster + 1 Controller, (yes 4 man team) Basically defeated a continual onslaught from 8 or more villains. Which if memory servers, included mainly stalkers and brutes, but 1 necro mastermind and 1 corrupter.

Ill give up with the arguement. As you will note. I'm still enjoying PvP, but i think to enjoy it you have to have a PvP capable toon. Without that, and even in most teams, your fodder for the PvP FoTMs.

I never said you shouldnt melee... im levelling an Ice/Elec atm, which is ofcourse a melee. I think people have the misconception that the only good pvp blaster ATM is a blapper. However i have seen ranged blaster pwn. I have seen */ice pwn. I will see Energy/* (any none blapping 2ndary) do well. Since the knockback gives you the option of not having to melee.

I think BU/Aim/Snipe from max range is quite respectable damage too! Sure, wont down a brute, but a corrupter / mastermind (without bodyguard) / Stalker and Dominator will all be gasping for breath after that one.

I like ranged sniping. Its kind of opportunitstic approach. As i say, i dont like the common perception that Melee blaster is the only capable pvper.

Anyway - im stuck with my Ice/Elec blapper as i just dont have the time to lvl an energy/*. Would dearly love to now tho, since Chaplain's Energy 2ndary was very suprising in SC last night.

I think you are right SP. Point being other MMOs take this line and it works for them. They balance each toon with RPS, so they they have easy, medium and hard fights vs the other archetypes. Then when they get into a team, thats just transposed up a level and the results are still predictable.

Empath on his own = poor.

2 Blasters on their own vs 4 Stalkers = Quite poor.

2 Blaster + 1 Empath vs 4+ Stalkers = Win.

Balancing is completely borked.

Your a broken record plight... ! :P

Can you hold over a Brute or Stalkers mez resist? - No.

Can i knock back over a Brute or Stalkers mez resist? - Yes.

Therefore - is the status effect granted by Energy better than Electricity when fighting high mez resist characters - yes.

Want to talk about end drain, then thats something else.

Energy primary allows the glass cannon to stay at range and safe and allows PvP blasters to get out of the Blapper mindset.

EDIT - I should add, that Im not saying that Energy is better than anything else on a whole. Im just responding to your summary that Ice/Sonic are the best PvP choices.

Energy isnt actually *that* commonly resisted. Only one of the defender epic shields has energy res for instance. Also, Sonic is energy / smashing iirc, so its in the same boat. Electricity must be Energy also? I dont often see Energy blasters taking power push. I'll tell you now, if more did, Energy blast would get a LOT more fans. Fine you can resist 30% of the damage. However they have a ranged knockback that will eat any KB resistance you can muster, bar a stupid amount of clear minds. They can get a free shot in while your flying through the air.

Of course, not YOU personally. Just saying, there are ways to work Energy primary and its ranged single target damage and its pearl, Power Push, can offer something no other blaster primary can, and thats control vs high mez protection.

Disclaimer - need someone to test power push from a blaster primary. On my Defender 2ndary, it easts mez resist, but unclear is Defender get high mag 2ndary effects than blaster primary.

Plight. I suggest you try Power Push from energy Primary. This is NOT resisted by acro. This isnt even resisted by Brutes and Stalkers mez resist. This power alone has the ability to meter out a decent ranged kill zone for a blaster.

Hell, on Chaplain, im keeping Stalkers permanently on their butts, and before they get up, they have a interrupt reduced snipe hitting them in the face.

I think Eng primary could be the best ranged PvP primary for this reason alone.

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Yup. This goes out especially to people that say PvP doesn't work in this game. Solo, I'd agree. But team PvP is where it's at. Pretty much all the best moments I've had in this game have been when in a decent team PvP situation (S4 especially. Two organised teams going at it, such great fun.)

I urge everyone who's had a bad PvP experience to get a team together and head to Sirens one night. Trust me, you'll love it. Especially if there's a decent team on the other side.

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Morning guys.

My two cents. The above hero team didnt make PvP very enjoyable for the Villains did it? Solo its imbalanced - team its imbalanced. Empaths are the rox in PvP. Much to my amazement. Cm/Fort just turns the tables. Perhaps too far?

I respecced chap last night. Ill post his build later today. IN any case, from turning up, i was instantly invited to a 2man blaster team. We were facing up to 8 villains at once. Not. One. Hero. Death. The villains got totally wasted.

So of course, Chaplain becomes the target. Much to my amusement, Power Push keeps brutes and stalkers on their backsides and even when faced with 3 or 4 villains beating on me, with Cryo armour and healing aura, i didnt die either.

Arguably, Empaths make PvP unbalanced, if last nights anything to go by. I even think i could successfully duel with Chap in his current build. Beating Stalkers and Brutes last night, soloish really built my confidence.

Empaths could of course be nerfed. However, since we have no place in late game PvE, and in Solo PvP we are the sux, i think that would be extremely harsh. Its also not beyond a good PvPer to lock down an Empath. Its just that my Energy 2ndary provides a fairly unique tool that makes it quite hard for melee types. BU/Aim Snipe from a Blaster, or Aim Snipe from a Corrupter would give me issues.

(Air Superiority, on a Brute at Max altitude = Brute with near 1 HP when he hits the floor. Quick brawl - dead. Never laughed so hard)

Anyway. I enjoyed it so much, anyone on Union who wants SC Empath support should gimme a yell at @Chaplain. It was a LOT of fun.

Does it work? Can you cast fallout on downed teamates in PvP. If you can, i might take it with Nikta on the freespec.

Does anyone know the damage / BI for Fallout?

Has anyone tried it?

Should it work, could imagine it would be a nasty sting to the unsuspecting stalker relishing in his most recent victim. If it doesnt do great damage, im sure the debuff will hurt.

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Look, my team of rabid PvP Empaths! A gaggle of Brutes! Charge them down!

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Actually, I've always wanted to see how an organised team of Empaths would do in PvP.

With stacked Fortitudes, Recovery Auras and Regeneration Auras along with Clear Minds and Adrenalin Boosts on tap and (of course) huge amounts of healing, I think they could be pretty nasty...

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8 man empath team would be very nasty, still lacking some damage output i fear, but the organisation required to make it work is the biggest problem. Love to try though as its about time Chaplain actually scored a kill! Hes been face down in SC and the Arena more times than i care to remember.

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Im interested to know how you came to that conclusion RW? Shed some light?

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Only just noticed this, probably too late to reply really, but...

What little actual PvP experience I have in CoX would appear to imply that I can either beat something, or not, which tends to support your view.

However, from what I read, the majority seem to think it's RPS, and from a set of arena duels I witnessed recently, I'd have to say it's biased, but not a certainty, especially when you take into account that Cryptic have explicitly not balanced the game for one-on-one combat. As soon as you start mixing other ATs in, you start getting closer to RPS (I'd imagine).

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Agree that team pvp 'can' be RPS, but it becomes far too complicated to debate. In my opinion the building blocks, i.e the characters making up the team should be balanced to truely allow team pvp to be balanced.

As it stands, the effectiveness of certain builds still shines through in team games.

Regarding RPS, i dont like that terminology in general with CoH. Statistically RPS should allow 33% Win, 33% Lose, 33% Draw. Which in WoW translates to , 33% Easy Wins, 33% Lose (by default), 33% Tough fights (My Experience with Rogues; Easy vs Mages, Fun Fight vs Druids, Shamans, Warriors and Other Rogues, Hellish time vs Priests, Palas and Warlocks.).

CoH has something WoW doesnt have. CoH has builds that provide PvP tools that can yield 90% Win, 5% Lose, 5% Draw.

I think CoX devs need to think hard about 2 things.

1)Movement - Travel powers screw RPS big time. A Ranged glass cannon cannot do the 'cannon' part if he has no means of kiting. The strange thing about this point is that the build offered the best means of kiting is a spines scrapper! Someone reliant on being melee.

2) Damage Scalars in PvP. Stalkers dictate under the current format that the PvP damage is near 1 shot capabilities. This does not promote a skilled fight. When people are using 2-3 attacks to succeed in a pvp fight that lasts 5 seconds its not really too exciting. (Not aimed soley at Stalkers.)

In WoW, as a rogue, i had to use at least 8-9 different abilities to take down most targets. Even with an Ambush out ot stealth on a cloth target, I would still need to follow up with a decent stun lock or be feared, sheeped or immobilised. Against a warrior we are talking serious skill. Poison both blades with crippling, open with cheap shot, back stab, sinister strike, Rupture, move outside melee range, but within charge range, reenter stealth (5 seconds without attacking), watch for battle shout, cheap shot, backstab, sinister strike, kidney shot, vanish, garrote, sprint out and wait for warrior to drop. Now, i only won 50% of my fights with warriors, because managing that kind of an attack chain, which is necessary to negate the high armour values of warriors, was never easy.

Oh, wait, im in CoH now, Build Up, Aim, Blazing Bolt, Blaze, Target down. Next! <Insert variety of other examples here>

I just dont think that when fights last so little time, there is much room for skill at all. If fights were longer, we might have to think about attack chains. As it stands, Jousts attack chain doesnt come into play unless fighting a tanker/brute. Even then its not a chain which required much thought, it was a necessary use of all my damage powers to put a dent in their HP. Not much skill in hitting powers the second they recharge.

So, a proposal, reduce the damage in PvP accross the board. Forcing more attacks to be used and proper attack chains! And no, this isnt prodding stalkers with a sharp stick! Forces these guys to use placate and actually use a sensible attack chain too. Whats more, if you take near 1 shotting ASing off them, you could afford to give them back high -perception power! If that wasn't acceptable, they have the option of playing a bit with base resistance levels accross the board. Allowing for the unresistable component of an AS to still shine.

Anyway. Just dont think CoX has PVP down at all well atm. Still enjoy it tho - in a simple kind of way.

Sorry, very OT I guess. To the OP - sucks that you got ganked, most of the time a broadcast chat should resolve. Just watch you dont get ASed while typing tho!

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Not really, but PvP in CoX is largely rock, paper, scissors, and a bit of talent.

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Im interested to know how you came to that conclusion RW? Shed some light?

Most PvP systems in MMO try to work on a Rock, Paper, Scissors approach. An approach which WoW manage extremely well. So grats to them. However, with CoH, its very easy put builds in 2 camps. PvP capable, and PvE.

Its my experience that in CoH/CoV there are Uber PvP builds that can cope with 99% of other ATs. Leading to imbalance etc. Which leads to dev nerfage.

Follow FOTM's for example.

EM Stalkers
Spines/Regen

FOTM's from some time ago:
Blappers
Illusion/Kin trollers.

Rock, Paper and Scissors is a CoX utopia and always will be since the game is primarily designed for PvE. Devs may have other impressions about their achievements. To them i say - Go try WoW.

And this isnt out of frustration. I have PvP capable toons. I'm just not very good with them. I enjoy PvP when im winning or losing. (within reason...!) Neither is it out of a Fanboy love for WoW. I cant play that game anymore - bores the pointy bits off me. Certainly CoX devs could learn some tricks from it though.

Union preferably, but no issue lvling an alt on Defiant for the space.

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I think there are some real PvP gems to still be found, including 1 or 2 from the Blaster sets. Happy hunting.

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Too right...ice/fire is up next for me!

[/ QUOTE ]good to hear kronos, at least there'll be one person left to pwn when everyone else learns

Plight

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got to see stacked holds and a burn patch under your [censored], with some /em getsome showboating thrown in.

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I don't think that I will take /Energy, because I think a blaster that's trying to melee is.. well... funny. Blasters are really squishy, so to be in melee range, when those evil scrappers can hurt us? I say not :{...

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Just another point along this thought, i found up to about lvl 35, that i was safer playing blappery style. You're nearer the tanks taunt aura and in an age dominated by Kin defenders and */Kin trollers, you pick up the green glow more often. At 35+ im finding AoE is busting my balls a bit, and hence im playing a little bit more ranged.

The biggest point is, to play PvP you have to achieve certain level PvE. So, i guess its a lucky few who can say they have a fully optimised PvP/PvE build. Joust is specced PvE and it shows when i poke my head in SC / Warburg. At 50, i have to chop and change quite a bit to put him into pure PvP and semi capable PvE. But playing a PvP build with joust, for 50 levels would have slowed me down a lot.

The most exciting thing about CoH is when you arrive at a concept that no-one else has thought of. Asking here for advice is great, but it does tend to put the blinkers on a bit. I have to consider the powersets and what the do in detail without biased opinion. I think there are some real PvP gems to still be found, including 1 or 2 from the Blaster sets. Happy hunting.

Sweet. Can i ask anyone interested in this team, to get a Stalker to lvl 6 to join my stalker.

I have Dark/Energy.

Ill set a night NEXT week (Commencing 25th June, for our first session.)

This will be a casual thing folks, not intending on playing the guy too hard atm, enjoying heros too much.

Chap.

General question really.

Rolled a sonic/ice blaster as a kind of controllery pvp blaster. A 'keep things close and kill them' toon. At the moment i am really enjoying the toon and it certainly performs at low level, and very well. However, scoping out the later sonic powers, the tier 7 and 8 seem to lack damage of any real usefullness. I had some plans for combining the sleeps from the sonic and ice sets but not sure if that will be senisble pvp.

Anyhoo, anyone running a Sonic/Ice that can enlighten me as to their late game viability?

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I remeber seeing (this is quite a long time ago) someone saying that elec/ice was one the best archtypes you could have together on a blaster. I would like to know if it is really ?

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It's great if you like not having much damage. I think you got confused and switched around the primary and secondary. Ice/Elec is a much stronger combo than Elec/Ice

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Stronger in secondary 'damage' perhaps. But /ice has alot more control than /elec.
Elec gets a very nice snipe too and greater range.

With ice/elec its all about taking down the mobs asap. With elec/ice you can take ur time.

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I run Ice/Elec, Kronosy has Elec/Ice. We are good at different things. As kronosy says, hes got some really nice control with ice patch and CE to certain extents. I just run in and blapp. I'd say my damage output is probably higher, but Kronosy has much greater survivability, in PvP and PvE.

I was that impressed with the way Kronosy played */Ice, i rolled a Sonic/Ice and im enjoying that quite abit. However, somewhat worried about late game damage capabilities.

Chap.

having seen how you play Kronosy, i'd have thought TB would be a good one. Considering your set up for melee slows/knockdowns, then your attacked finally does get away, you might like to BU/AIM and TB him just to be sure? Besides that its a damn nice RV power? Can you imagine seeing a bunch of villains beating on AVs and you swan in there drop and ice patch and back off to TB.

Can you squeeze Grant invis in earlier? Pre sirens?

Grats on Late, Tundra. Done in style. I have a concept for my next toon, which i hope i can catch Maxwell with. Talk soon.

There was a decline in TS chatter as we hit about 12AM with muchos death induced drinkage. The point at which Thrunge fell asleep at the keyboard, was the point I thought Jurrasik wasnt going down.

good one folks. And yes, I did have the day off on Friday. Didnt get up until all traces of drunkeness were gone... So, about 3PM then.



Again again!

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heh... thats not to mention i have a fire brute too...which got held through plasma shield, acrobatics and two break frees by a blaster....

i think PvP hates me.

i have acro, and invis, and leadership btw... only problem is that most people i fight seem to toggle drop or have stuns.. and as soon as i'm stunned i'm dead.


side note: i dont want to do support role in PvP. if all i'm doing is healing a team, thats all i've been doing for 50lvls in PvE, and it really isn't something which i enjoy anymore.

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that blaster will never be able to get you held again, it must have ben pre issue 7 when he dropped your toggles using melee moves, that isn't possible any more.

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Unless im missing something, your incorrect. Toggle drop is possible, just not as likely as before. From the patch notes on chances to toggle drop;

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Blaster: Devices: Trip Mine: 5% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Devices: Time Bomb: 19% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Electrical Manipulation: Charged Brawl: 5% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Electrical Manipulation: Havok Punch: 22% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Energy Manipulation: Bone Smasher: 22% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Energy Manipulation: Energy Punch: 5% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Fire Manipulation: Fire Sword: 5% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Fire Manipulation: Fire Sword Circle: 22% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Ice Manipulation: Frozen Fists: 5% for 1 Toggle

Blaster: Ice Manipulation: Ice Sword: 22% for 1 Toggle



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Plight, i think ive been beating myself up too much to find space for tactics in my blapper build. Do you rate it on blasters/blappers and what are your thoughts about dropping it into a ice/elec build?

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side note: i dont want to do support role in PvP. if all i'm doing is healing a team, thats all i've been doing for 50lvls in PvE, and it really isn't something which i enjoy anymore.

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Im afraid its probably time to roll an alt then, because your powersets do not have any hidden 'i win' buttons for dualing that im aware of.

Well, lets not say its impossible, but it is really difficult. Here is what I would do with Chap if i wanted to give him a fighting chance in PvP.

1) Make yourself invisible 90% of the time. Stalkers will shoot for defenders every time. get invis, keep it up, drop it to attack / buff / heal and then put it back up.

2) Acrobatics. Grats enough to get around blaster holds, take it. Knockback protection gives you a fighting chance to drop a heal aura to save your bacon.

3) Dont duel. You will always dissapoint yourself. You will not find an attack capable of dropping anyone fast enough to cause concern. You WILL have fun in a decent team pvp situation where your buffs and heals make you a real asset. you see, Rad/Kin etc are the choice of the day in PvE and it seems they are much prefered. I however find Rad quite fidly in pvp. The empathy is much easier to achieve results for the team.

4) Pre 30 mandatories. Try to get yourself Assault and Tactics and Grant invis/invis prior to 30. That way you can have fun in all pvp instances from Sirens up. Without invis you'll be everyones wupping boy. Its not nice.

5) Personal choice, but empathys are born for the sky in pvp. when you are out of invis, you can make it difficult for melee types by staying off the ground. Especially stalkers, who will find getting into a good position in the air for an AS a bit tougher than they will on the ground.

I feel for you man, neither of your toons are born PvPers. If you want to PvP on heroes side then there are many better choices. Trick is finding somethig you can enjoy for 50 levels of PvE and then switch it with a strategic respec at 50 to a pvp monster.

GL with that.

Suprised there is so much bashing of /Elec, when teamed with Ice primary.

Energy the default choice? Why? Power Boost - increase slow effects of ice primary? Why? SJ ignores them. Boost Range? Ice is a relatively short range primary, lacking snipe. If your going with Energy or Elec 2ndary, you'd be more than likely hovering around melee range anyway.

Elec 2ndary has a hold at lvl 38. Meaning you can open with Shocking grasp and drop freeze ray and get past other squishies mez prot (acro). Bitter freeze ray is pointless in PvP. It gets me killed too much.

Energy/Elec are on par with each other. */Energy is a default choice because its 'uber'. Not sure many are actually putting thought into it these days though.