BunnyAnomaly
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Posts
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Joined
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I'd love to see an option to totally negate all effects so that when you do itrials you (and ~20 others) aren't lit up like christmas trees to the point where everyone is just a sparkly mess.
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Quote:Willpower and Invulnerability are considered pretty much equals at the top of the pile for survivability. They exceed everything except Granite. I'd say Willpower is probably a touch easier to level up due to regeneration & recovery rates, but Invulnerability has a better taunt aura.Originally Posted by Obsidius
Thanks for the additional advice. After going through the animations tonight in the costume creator, I think I've narrowed it down to Willpower or Invulnerability.
I don't care for the animations of Super Reflexes for this theme, would rather stay away form Fiery Aura due to thematic reasons & excessive clicking, and am not too excited about Regen for the same reasons as Fiery Aura.
Thoughts between Willpower and Invul? I like the potential of Invul, but the self rez in WP is tempting... -
For pure power I suppose Mu is probably going to win. It also has Electric Shackles which will give you another attack (slot it for damage!).
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Quote:I haven't used Water Spout but I understand that it summons a pseudo-pet that will be affected by the FF proc instead fo you, making it totally useless.Originally Posted by boppaholic
Can you elaborate as to why the are useful or not? Is it the lower probability and shorter duration that makes force feedback "useless"?
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Beaten to it!
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Play a support character with strong buffs and debuffs. Perhaps Cold with the shields and later the AV crushing debuffs is a great way to start. Buffing is a lot less fiddly than what it was before with one cast hitting everything in a 30' radius of the target, but if that isn't your thing, then maybe Rad or Dark are strong choices.
Really once you get enough buffs/debuffs it doesn't matter what "damage" or "tank" you bring because everything wilts in a heartbeat. So... take the first step and be the first buff/debuff in every team you're in
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Rationalising these things too far is just silly.
There's a reason the character is called The Incredible Hulk. Because it's not credible.
Perhaps a physical shield will do nothing against a psychic assault, but what if the shield is simply a mental projection or manifestation of your own psychic powers and it can do exactly that? Likewise why should a shield do anything against a fireball if the shield is a tiny buckler on one arm? Just don't even go there.
Back to regen? Okay, I fear it'd be too much like Willpower if it was altered to match Tanks better, but who really cares nowadays anyway? Let people have what they want to try out. -
90 second recharge on Lightning Rod means it's up roughly every 25-30 seconds. Maybe I'm used to my SS/FA but having Footstomp every 5 - 6 seconds and having a whole spawn cleared out by the time the second footstomp hits, but clearing a spawn in 30 seconds is slow.
Maybe if you are fighting much higher levelled enemies things might be different but I always found the twice a minute "boom" to not quite be as good as consistent reliable damage. -
Quote:This is the main reason I took scrapper over brute for it. Lightning Rod and Shield Charge are not only your main sources of AOE damage but also signature moves. They are simply ridiculously good for a scrapperOriginally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
Finally, with shield charge. Scrappers do 113 with SC, and brutes do 100 (at lvl 50). Normally, a brute will make up the difference with fury adding to the damage buff. BUT, sheild charges uses a psuedo pet, so it's damage cap is not the same as the brute's, even when a bruute uses it. So while a brute relies on it's higher damage cap to close the gap between scrapper damage, it caps out at +300 just like the scrapper does, and can't close that gap. This also means that if the brute can somehow cap himself, other AoE attacks can surpass SC in damage, but recharge much faster. The same goes with lightning rod, which is why scrappers get better mileage out of the overall combo as well.
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If you put scaling resistances in, how close does the set get now to Willpower?
Willpower can get ~90 hp/sec with a single enemy nearby with very high resistances to s/l and very good defences to everything else.
How much higher regen does Regeneration reasonably need to compete with this, because simply slapping a lot of res/def seems to give you two sets doing approximately the same thing. -
Quote:I've never timed myself but undoubtedly it would be slower. Elec/Shield excels at burst damage - a full buffed Lightning Rod is really a wonder to behold. But outside of that burst it doesn't have a lot of AOE potential. It has chain lightning (not exactly a wonder at AOE) and jacob's ladder (nice, but a relatively short cone), and then it relies on attacks from it's secondary or APP/PPP. For all the crazy damage that Lightning Rod does at the start, it doesn't have particularly good sustained DPS.Originally Posted by Werner
Anyone have a good example of good kill speed on Council with an Electric/Shield? A Spines/Fire? Other?
Mind you, I have no idea if we're talking about AoE while leveling, AoE on SOs at 50, AoE fully IO'd and incarnated, or what. -
Electric is fun for the gimmicky (and powerful) El/SD but I prefer having more consistent AOE. I'd look at maybe Fire or the like.
This is coming from someone that has a 50 IO'd out El/ED btw
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Quote:I don't use hover it is just a set muleOriginally Posted by Red_Shadow
I did say I had help from a few pages back :P I just couldn't remember the post.
So everyone, this is Bunny's build with very minor changes by me
(It was one of the few SS/FA builds I could find that weren't farm based.
Original post:http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...7&postcount=18)
Fly being the travel was a HUGE plus for me, I'm just curious as to if anyone can find a way to Softcap without Hover. Since you're here Bunny, how does hover affect the gameplay? Hover on = no burn or footstomp = bad!
The build was from before I had city traveller so it's possible to swap that out for something else if you feel you need it. I used to use Air Superiority but with the amount of attacks already it was pointless (kinetic combat could go into brawl and hover could give 7.5% recharge).
If I didn't use Fly (part of the concept of the character) i'd love to try and get Spring Attack (again for concept rather than power reasons). A few choices that I made were somewhat limiting because of this but if you run what you have at the top you'll solo everything except the AVs on the itrials. -
Quote:Arcanaville has said that adding equal resistances to two characters, one with higher base resistance, the other with lower (literally, fiery aura vs regen), the one with higher base resistance will improve more.Originally Posted by Starsman
If that is the point you want to make you actually have to run those numbers twice.
For tanks and for scrappers, and then you have to prove that the scrapper regen has the same percentage of advantage over the fire scrapper as the tanker does.
If you are doing everything right, you will see regen scrapper will have much more sustainable survivability than the fire scrapper, but nearly tie in tankers.
Thats what Arcanaville means by saying regen does not scale with the AT as resist does (or at least thats what Im taking she does, given my own understanding of the topic.)
In other words: just because a regen between scrappers can be as survivable as, perhaps an invuln (pulling off the air, no numbers at hand) does not mean it can do the same in the realm of tankers.
That is false.
This speaks nothing of the perfomance of the sets, just the maths behind the statement. -
Quote:The entire purpose of the analysis is only to show that Arcanaville's statement regarding resistance is wrong.Originally Posted by Starsman
BunnyAnomaly, there are two problems with that analysis*.
First is that you have not factored alpha survivability. How big of an alpha can each set survive to react and heal back? That is very relevant for tankers that, well, tank. Although its not that big of a deal solo, it can be leveraged while solo.
The second point is that Fire Armor has that level of sustained survivability litterally as penalty for it's heavy damage tools. Its not acceptable for a set that is purely defensive to barely surpass Fire Armor's survivability, much less when said survivability is very limited to specific situations (regen would still be inferior at taking the alpha.)
Saying a set, using every tool it has, can be a bit better than fire against sustained dps, is the same as admiting the set sucks, since fire does that with very few powers and gets insane offensive tools on top of that.
Try calculating how much damage is needed to kill each tank in exactly 4 seconds (thats enough to at least pull out one heal, not two.)
Although MoG may help there, it has too high of a recharge to be used on every spawn and comes too late to be factored in the game until level 32. Alphas is not something you take only when a click is available, its something you have to be ready for spawn after spawn.
Maybe the only change the set would need to be viable is to change the duration/recharge and level of availablity of MoG.
*I have not double checked to see if your math is accurate, just a disclaimer.
It has no bearing on which set is better or any further conditions. -
Quote:Please quote where I said that regeneration benefits more from resistance. For your benefit here is my own quote:Originally Posted by Calhou
My point is, you're saying a regeneration set benefits more from resistance increases - I claim that this is only true in corner cases of low incoming damage, when they're both effectively immortal.
As soon as situations get actually dangerous, the resistance set benefits more - as well as being much stronger in the first place - and these are the situations that matter, at least in my book.
alsoQuote:It can be therefore seen that 'stacking mitigation' is not always better. It is conditional of the situation.
I am in fact proving Arcanaville's statement about resistance to be false.Quote:They function differently under different incoming damage, hence the application of one or the other will have different effects. -
Quote:This was never in question so what was your point?Originally Posted by Calhou
I'd say your example there is very questionable - as soon as the 'incoming damage' value increases, the resistance set will begin running away with the show, dropping poor regeneration in the dust.
Person A : Resistance set with low regeneration rate.
Incoming damage = 400/second
Mitigation = 40%
Regeneration = 20/second
Received damage = 220/second
Time until defeat = 13.7 seconds
Person B : Regeneration set with low resistances.
Incoming damage = 400/second
Mitigation = 10%
Regeneration = 100/second
Recieved damage = 260/second
Time until defeat = 11.5 seconds
Person A : Resistance set with low regeneration rate.
Incoming damage = 400/second
Mitigation = 40%+20%
Regeneration = 20/second
Received damage = 140/second
Time until defeat = 21.4 seconds, up by 56%.
Person B : Regeneration set with low resistances.
Incoming damage = 400/second
Mitigation = 10%+20%
Regeneration = 100/second
Recieved damage = 180/second
Time until defeat = 16.7 seconds, up by 45%.
Oh, look! Through the magic of maths, the resistance set now benefits more. -
I've been down this road before, so just enjoy this example.
Quote:For a simple case where it is 1 method of mitigation (resistance or defence), the formula for incoming damage is:Originally Posted by ArcanavillePool powers are irrelevant to this point, because Fiery Aura and Regeneration benefit roughly equally from power pool mitigation powers. If anything, Fiery Aura benefits more due to having higher smash/lethal resistances which would stack with tough. Neither have any defense to stack meaningfully with pool defenses.
Received damage = total incoming damage * (1 - % mitigation) - regeneration rate.
Let's look at two examples, and then increase both by the same amount and see if Arcanaville is correct that having a higher initial resistance will prove more useful. These examples use a base of 3000 as the HP.
Person A : Resistance set with low regeneration rate.
Incoming damage = 200/second
Mitigation = 40%
Regeneration = 20/second
Received damage = 100/second
Time until defeat = 30 seconds
Person B : Regeneration set with low resistances.
Incoming damage = 200/second
Mitigation = 10%
Regeneration = 100/second
Recieved damage = 80/second
Time until defeat = 37.5 seconds
Now let's add additional resistance equally, as if they are taking some power pool or receiving outside buffs. Arcanaville says:
By this statement then the gap must remain the same, must close, or must put the resistance set ahead for Arcanaville to be correct.Quote:If anything, Fiery Aura benefits more due to having higher smash/lethal resistances which would stack with tough.
Let's say for argument's sake the resistance is an additional 20%.
Person A : Resistance set with low regeneration rate.
Incoming damage = 200/second
Mitigation = 40%+20%
Regeneration = 20/second
Received damage = 60/second
Time until defeat = 50 seconds
Person B : Regeneration set with low resistances.
Incoming damage = 200/second
Mitigation = 10%+20%
Regeneration = 100/second
Recieved damage = 40/second
Time until defeat = 75 seconds
The gap has widened. The regeneration set now has experienced a 100% growth on time until defeat but the resistance set has experienced only a 67% growth. It doesn't benefit more in absolute terms either: the resistance set gains an additional 20 seconds of life while the regeneration set gains an additional 37.5 seconds of life. This is contrary to the common wisdom that stacking mitigation is always better.
It can be therefore seen that 'stacking mitigation' is not always better. It is conditional of the situation. -
I'd pretty much go defences first and recharge secondary. Recharge benefits your attacks which will give a lot of active mitigation anyway. Also you'll get plenty of +HP just through IO sets you'll take naturally (Numinas, Kinetic Combat, etc.).
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Quote:Proof of 12% required here.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In fact, numerically speaking a Regen tanker would be about 12% stronger under SO slotting conditions, excluding instant healing. However, that performance would oscillate up and down as Dull Pain went up and down, and ditto Instant Healing: its uptime means while you can calculate an average, in actual play a regen tanker would sometimes be far higher than the average, and most of the time be far lower than that average.
What situation (length of time to survive required, depreciating incoming damage, damage type vs defence, damage type vs resistance, debuffs experienced, overall DPS encountered) draws you to this statement?
Further to this a direct averaging of effects from things such as IH does not capture the fact that it is driven by the player and is a choice to activate. Hence a player will not activate it when it is unnecessary and will optimise it's choice for times it is needed. It would benefit the player more than the average unless the player pays no heed to timers and activates it the instant it is up (and further continually fights heedless of this).
One would need to establish it is lower first before saying it is worse.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Fiery Aura ought to be outperformed by all tanker sets that do not make the same trade it does trading mitigation for offense. A hypothetical tanker regen would not really qualify for making that trade. Therefore, Regen should be clearly and unequivocally stronger than Fiery Aura. But its barely stronger on average outside of Instant Healing (which has low uptime) and during Dull Pain downtimes its performance can actually drop lower than Fiery Aura. Its borderline, but I believe that dip makes it impossible to state that Regen would *unequivocally* outperform Fiery Aura in the general case, within the context of sustained tanking.
This is false because resistance numbers equally benefit any class, and resistance, defence and regeneration do not function the same. Adding 3% resistance to one resists 3% incoming damage. Adding it to 10, or 40, makes no change to this. The amount of damage resisted is dynamic hence depends on the amount of damage faced. Regeneration is better considered as a static 'resistance' or safety net of a sort. They function differently under different incoming damage, hence the application of one or the other will have different effects.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Pool powers are irrelevant to this point, because Fiery Aura and Regeneration benefit roughly equally from power pool mitigation powers. If anything, Fiery Aura benefits more due to having higher smash/lethal resistances which would stack with tough. Neither have any defense to stack meaningfully with pool defenses.
MoG, IH both benefit from recharge.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The one area you might think would benefit Regen is +recharge, and specifically Hasten. But that's not true: Fiery Aura and Regen are remarkably similar in terms of non-health recovery mitigation. The difference comes down mostly to their differences in health recovery. Regen's health recovery comes part from regeneration and part from heals. Fiery Aura comes almost all from heals. FA's health recovery thus benefits from recharge more than Regeneration's does. The added mitigation Regen gets from closing the Dull Pain gap is not enough to compensate. You add +100% recharge to both (i.e. Hasten and global recharge) and the 12% edge Regen has on Fiery Aura on average vanishes: the two essentially equalize. -
see below
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Quote:Say hello to MoG and IH. More recharge favours Regen more than Fiery Aura. Looking at one detail in a vacuum is not going to help build an argument.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The one area you might think would benefit Regen is +recharge, and specifically Hasten. But that's not true: Fiery Aura and Regen are remarkably similar in terms of non-health recovery mitigation. The difference comes down mostly to their differences in health recovery. Regen's health recovery comes part from regeneration and part from heals. Fiery Aura comes almost all from heals. FA's health recovery thus benefits from recharge more than Regeneration's does. The added mitigation Regen gets from closing the Dull Pain gap is not enough to compensate. You add +100% recharge to both (i.e. Hasten and global recharge) and the 12% edge Regen has on Fiery Aura on average vanishes: the two essentially equalize.
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You have copied and pasted my build I have posted on these forums pick by pick, slotting by slotting, except you used gloom / dark obliteration instead of Fire Blast/Fire Ball.
You could at least give credit to where the build came from.
You copied it so perfectly that every franklenslot, every power selection is exactly the same.
It is a fine build though
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Quote:I'm of the same opinion it seems regarding 'Natural' powers, in that when talking about a human, would these abilities be considered 'natural' to what we as players would think. It just gets messy to consider it through the eyes of the NPCs because everything is (un)Natural then (even though it's mutation/magic/etc.) and the whole origin becomes meaningless. Having said that..!Originally Posted by LastLeprechaun
I cannot meaningfully explain the amount of times I have set out to create a character concept and been left with either devices/traps or the wildly popular trick-shot (ahem) as the only possibly (barely) plausible secondary options.
Just wondering if anyone else has run into this creative roadblock multiple times? You create a character and you simply don't want/need the secondary to be some fantastical cosmic esoteric energy set... but you are sooo tired of traps/devices... and the thought of your concept standing there holding a bow and arrow makes zero sense.
I'm not saying I have a balanced solution - but I swear I would take a grossly underpowered simple pistol set or something just to keep things on theme... especially since as it stands now if one of my concepts is strong enough I simply don't tray the off-point secondary powers anyway.
I suppose I am alone in the feeling?
I could do Natural in two ways. A non-human so the powers are inherent to the race. Or a quite low levelled character that never advances high so never has to explain how his two pistols are gunning down Recluse even though they are not super-high tech.
I can see where your complaint comes from - there is a real lack of abilities that a 'natural' human can use, but that stems from the fact that a natural human could never compete with a 50 ton brute who can eat tanks for breakfast. -
Quote:I'm just starting to mess around with a /Regen scrapper right now (so same numbers for defences / resistances as Brutes - cap excluded) and I don't know how accurate this ^ is. I haven't mucked around with Mid's for too long yet but from what I've seen so far there's really going to be a balance between s/l defence and recharge. Both are pretty vital for /Regen and hitting the s/l cap is probably going to leave you with very little in the way of recharge, an incredibly expensive build or an unwieldly build that skips things to eek out every bit of defence possible. Unless your primary assists you (katana for example) i'd probably aim at getting within 1 purple of soft cap and call it a day there.Originally Posted by sypher_vendetta
Regen takes more money to build around and more time and effort, havin barrier and mog is its only callin card if im honest, but u can build up softcap on s/l easily and possibly energy, get good resistance aswell, I would personally go for dark but I hear lately that regen brutes are quite good now so all depends if u can plow money and time into ur character.
There are two 'bubbles' inherent to Regen which are Instant Healing and MoG. Instant healing with enough recharge can have ~50% up time and will dramatically increase your survivability.
Resistances aren't really 'good' at all on a Regen character unless you consider ~32% including Tough already to be that. Really your Defense score is probably what will save you from the damage in the first place.
Finally there's a quote about someone being killed by a Cimeroran boss as /regen. I hope that is being sarcastic because you should be able to kill one of them without even having a secondary... effortlessly.