BrandX

Really, I can't agree with turning Crane Kick into a knockdown or knockup. Look at the animation...it's knockback.

That change seems more along the lines of "I don't want to possibly chase a target" than trying to help the set. The knockback is fine.

The more I think about adding better criticals to Martial Arts, the less I'm liking it.

I know I've suggested it recently to, but it's dawned on me. That fixes it for Scrappers and Stalkers, but not for when it gets ported to Tankers and Brutes.

Increasing EC's DPA either through a cut in animation or an increase in Recharge/END Cost/DMG...works for me. Giving EC, Total Focus Recharge/End Cost, I would think would mean giving it the same DMG, but better DPA, as EC is roughly .8 seconds faster than TF.

I like this idea, just because I hate to see people leave a tier 9 attack out. That just seems wrong.

Continuing to think on it, I'm really liking the idea of adding -Regen to CAK or CS or both.

Besides increasing the DPS of the set, which would only matter on hard targets, it adds a useful teaming function. Won't help clear missions as fast as those with lots of AOE, but taking down those harder targets at the end of the later arcs and tf/sf becomes faster.

Testing would have to be done on how much though, as I think it would have to be enough use and not be resisted so much as to not be wasted.

I think most people agree with you Claws.

Out side of extremely hard targets, the only toon of mine that used a steady attack string was my Dual Blades Scrappers, and that was more an effect of the combo system than anything else.

I think the DPS is getting brought up, because other sets match or exceed MA (matching = give or take a few notches in DPS), while surpassing MA in the AOE and secondary effects.

Let's assume MA has a varied list of effects. The problem is, they're not considered reliable and/or useful.

For the stun effect, one has to use Thunderkick, which is neither a good at it or reliable, cobra strike, which needs to stack with something else to be of any use, and Eagle's Claw, which is some of the worst DPA.

The closest thing to CAK is Impale. CAK has the better DPA (60 vs 52) but Imaple has Mag 3 vs CAK's mag 2 Immobilze, and Impale give -RCH.

And the knock around effects...on CK it's KB (which I personally don't want to see changed or removed...it matches with the animation) which to some is an annoyance, not reliable, and Dragon Tail's KD isn't reliable.

Truthfully, for my playstyle when it comes to scrappers...mez effects I can take or leave. They're not that big of a deal. Knock-effects, I love. -Def is only good for slotting the -Resist proc.

DM's Heal = GREAT!
BS's/Kat's +DEF = GREAT (if not softcapped)!

And even with those two things, they come in second to FUN COOL ANIMATIONS! At least, Martial Arts has them beat there

However, Dual Blades, has just as cool animations (imo), beats Martial Arts in DPS (not by much, they're basically in the same area...this is according to the DPS calculations per Bill, and I don't think it used the -Resist effect), AOE, better knockaround...though Martial Arts does have the better burst (so MA tends to beat DB in PvP).

I think that's what people are getting at in this thread. Not that MA is the worst set. Not even that it's perticularly gimped as far as damage goes.

It's that it just doesn't have anything that really sets it apart, when all sets pretty much bring the damage and it's effects aren't as useful or available as often to be useful as others.

The problem arises, when everyone has different ideas on what to do to set it apart, give it it's niche over others. Some want more secondary effects, some would prefere more damage, some want added AOE...ect...ect...

I'd say better.

Of course. My thought was more along the lines, as the ride becomes smoother sailing just a little before 38. So, for those thinking on which, they'll know it happens a little earlier than 38.

IMO anyways. 35 for the End woes, 37 for the survivability woes (can still be scetchy, but fully slotted ENDMOD/RCH goes a long ways in ELA's survival).

For some, that can make a difference in giving a set a shot.

I actually prefere my DB/WP over DB/SR.

The redraw wasn't to bad with DB/SR, but with Practiced Brawler, it's still there and pretty often, once you get enough RCH into the build.

WP, only has it with SoW, so it's not so bad.

INV (I'd skip Unstoppable) isn't to bad as Dull Pain wouldn't be fired that often (and less often if you don't keep it on auto anduse it when you need it).

Regen...weeell...that's alot of clickies.

Electric Armor, I'd still say alot of clicking between the heal and power sink (and I consider power sink one of it's survival tools...you want enemies drained as fast as possible).

Fire Armor has a heal you want to fire off often andsome might want consume for the additional END REC. Not to mention Fiery Embrace and Burn (if you even take it).

Dark Armor has it's heal you'll likely want to fire off pretty often as well.

This is just going by the Scrapper available secondaries.

WP and INV are the best bets to go with imo if redraw is a problem for you. SR would probably come in 3rd. If redraw isn't a bother...pick one and go!

Well, level 35, tends to take care of the END problems. Level 37 to fully slot it, to not only really solve the END problems, but really help with damage mitigation.

That said, I'd still suggest Spines/FA for a Spine Farmer.

Mmmm...truthfully, in my own play experience, with Shadow Maul, Soul Drain and Dark Consumption, I felt (this by no mean, means accurate, maybe Dragon Tail was up more often than I thought, compared to those 3 abilities in Dark Melee combined) that Dark Melee had more AOE. All perspective and playstyle based I would take it (look at the Super Strength thread, where others are comparing Foot Stomp to Claws 3 AOEs).

Here's why I'm okay with them giving one set -regen, and not the others. Mental Manipulation: Drain Psyche AND Psionic Assault: Drain Psyche.

There is only one set to take, to get -regen, in those ATs. You don't see any other set get the -Regen, when those sets do. So, what's the difference with MA having that effect and none of the other sets having it?

As for the reasoning...same thing applies...one could just as easily say the same nerve you hit to slow the targets movement, slows the target's regen.

However, you're right, maybe putting it in Cobra Strike would be better. I really hadn't thought about putting it in Cobra Strike. Same effect, increases the DPS on hard targets.

Anything goes? Or you thinking no to such things as Aid Self?

Well, to answer some of this. Yes, adding -Regen to anything, is really saying "this perticular ability is only for the hard targets" (ie...EB Rank or Higher).

However, getting high DPS, is really about the hard targets. No one needs high single target DPS for the every day spawns.

Now, Martial Arts is already a Single Target driven set. So, I'm not sure it's to much of a stretch to say that's what they want this set to be (you want the set to be better against those targets than anything without it and that the power should be better than any other option you could possibly have on the table.).

As for the reasoning behind the -Regen (which had an alter punch animation)...the martial artist is hitting a nerve point, stopping the flow of chi, causing a disruption in the tagrets regen.

Also, adding the -regen effect, only effects the HARD targets that make up very little of the game, but gives MA the distinction of being the ST DPS set, without really breaking the game.

Seeing as how I've found it pretty easy to come by Envenomed Daggers (which is still one of the reasons I don't see 250% -regen being a game breaker), putting in the -regen into an effect for a set didn't seem to far off the "OMG OPed" book (which you didn't say this time, after one of my suggestions >_>)

Add in more, that it doesn't help you do more damage to the game's regular content of Minions, LTs, and Bosses, to eat through the levels faster (and for those who stick to EBs, beat on them a bit faster).

This.

If I want level 33 IO recipes when I make a random roll for a recipe, I need to be level 33.

This is the same with Merits or AE Tickets.

I also think this needs to change :/ I'd be more willing to random roll, if I could set the level I want the recipe at, rather than stopping the xp gain.

Martial Arts/Fire Armor!

Regen is over done as is Fire Melee! Be different! Dooo it!

That said, if it's just for the energy source, you can just use any toon, grab a SG member to stand there in the arena, and beat on them

1k cuts is the opening move for Sweeping Strike. And with a 15s recharge, that's alot of standing around. Or you have A LOT of +RCH.

I suggest PS over NS, as PS is the better DPA (but not by much), but also hits harder.

It's not that hard to get BF -> Attack Vitals Combo -> PS -> Repeat for single targets.

Better once you get BF -> Attack Vitals Combo -> Repeat which with a little investment, isn't that hard to get to.

The next step up, requires A LOT of Recharge, and doesn't use combos.

BF -> Attack Vitals Combo -> Sweep Combo -> Repeat I also didn't find to bad for normal mission running.

BF -> Attack Vitals Combo -> Typhoon's Edge -> Repeat, is what I like to use when facing 2+ targets in normal PvE, replacing TE with PS if one enemy remains.

Not sure if TE is better than PS versus 2 targets, but eh, I hit them both. TE I'm pretty positive is the better attack when 3+ enemies remain however.

I also find Sweep Strike pretty easy to get 3+ enemies in the cone.

I was sure Umbral could figure out a better number for the idea, than I could...probably a good idea to go with -150% That's what those who slot up Drain Psyche can do...so I'll edit the post for that...

I was just thinking of having it be high enough to be effective on the hard targets, and not resisted so much it's not worth it.

Like I said...not the numbers person.

So, it was a bad idea. So change it up...

Get rid of the 15% chance to crit. Eh, I liked it the idea because it increased a single target oriented sets damage without directly increasing the damage.

Take my suggestion and lower Thunder's chance to stun back to it's original, with a 10% chance of knockdown on Storm.

I don't see the problem in making the tier 1 & 2 almost identical because "it hurts the lower level attack chain". Not every player goes the "Build for a respec path" in fact, I would guess most players don't. I know I've seen more starting MA scrappers skip Thunderkick than take it.

In fact, wasn't building for the whole game, not building around respecs, how it started? Not to mention, not everyone has access to the respecs TO play the build for respec playstyle.

I have access to Respecs, and I know I don't level my toons with the thought of "Okay...I'll build my toon this way level 1-20, respec into this, then that build to 20-41, then respec into my final build." Hell, I find that to be the stupidest way to do it, because respecs are such valuable things. That's why they're going for over 200million influence.

People are already skipping Cobra Strike, with everyone suggesting "Up it's damage". So, why not turn it into the Stun equivalent to Crane Kick's knockback (which some people complain about)? As for having a better chance of effecr than comparitive attacks, I have to ask...do you know chance of knockback on Crane Kick as it is on live?

60% [As you said: the chances on Cobra Strike and Crane Kick are better than the secondary effects of their comparative powers] in Crane Kick is how it is on LIVE. So, when I made the suggestion for Cobra Strike to become the stun equivalent to Crane Kick, I gave it the same 60% chance to trigger. Right now as it is, it's a 100% chance to trigger and no damage.

So, let's lower the chances for those status effects. Before my idea was being able to try to stack the effect of stun, or have more knock-effects. So, lower the chance of the effects.

CAK, just leave is as it is on LIVE now then. Let it's Immobilize and -Fly/-Spd effects be it's draw.

Dragon's Tail. Well, it has a 75% chance for .67 knockdown on LIVE now. My suggestion lowered the chance to 30%, then added a 30% chance of stun. So at best, I would think that would mean a 60% chance to effect a target AT BEST (and I highly doubt it's 60%, my guess is about 45%), while currently on live it has a 75% chance. So, I saw that as taking a hit there. Admittedly I increased it's radius to 10ft. But the damage stayed the same.

Saying that it would now have the effect of DT as is on live and Whirling Hands, I think is a non issue. Currently it has a 75% chance for knockdown now. WH has a 30% chance for stun now. So we combine the effects? That should be a non-issue. Not to mention everyone agrees WH sucks as it is.

EC, lose the chance for knockdown.

...

So, lets see...this would I guess put someone at the...

Storm - Thunder - Cobra - Storm - Thunder - Crane - Repeat

Storm Kick and Thunder Kick would have to recharge in 2.904 seconds (1.056 animation time for Storm and Thunder, and 1.848 animation time for Cobra and Crane)...at 99.08% recharge enhancement (that's 3 Lvl 50 Generic RCH IOs) in both Storm and Thunder, that still puts it at 3.01 second recharge for them. So, they'd still need to take off .106 seconds for Storm and Thunder to be fluid in this chain...which 1 LotG: +RCH would do!

Now mind you, I haven't seen many builds that have 99.08% RCH enhancement in an attack...sooo...lets assume they have 60% (without hurting damage) They'd need what...another 46% Global Recharge?

Now, one could then just take Hasten. But then the chain wouldn't be non stop, because Hasten isn't perma that easily. So, they'd likely grab up the remaining 46% through set bonuses.

Now, Crane Kick and Cobra (if made to be like I suggested)...would be able to get the needed RCH for that chain, with 64.9% RCH.

That 7.92 Second Attack String would be 67.78 DPS.

And while it would require less RCH to obtain, than the two you mentioned, it also requires an additional power, and thusly more slot investment.

The mitigation was lowered, and well, it's a single target oriented set. Why not let it obtain it's optimal single target DPS chain easier?

Not to mention, everyone gripes about Smashing being so heavily resisted, and still no way to slot a -resist proc into the set.

...

How's that? Mind you, I'm just throwing out ideas here. So with this revision, lowered the mitigation values, and lowered the DPS.

Really? I never get that feeling. More like you've shown him you needed to bring friends to kick his butt (for the majority of players out there anyways).