BlueBattler
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Posts
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Quote:Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Yeah that would be WAY over what most people have guessed at the profit based off information gathered. WAY over; like more than double. The best cost analysis I seen figured approx 2 million profit in 2011 and would have been the same for 2012.
The player base is 1/3 what it was 3-4 years ago. CoH in 2012 has had approx 50-60k subscribers. Looking back over the sub numbers that is almost 1/4 the number we had at our peak. Just because I say CoH was sloowly dying..does not for one minute reflect my opinion about CoH; which was that it is the best MMO out there.
BTW on a side note: People who even think that NCSoft was offered 80 million for CoH are delusional. NO company is going to pay $80 million for CoH. It would take 40 years to even break even at the current profit rate. Heck even if CoH made 5 mill profit a year... that's still 16 years! Come on people....Common sense is your friend
Yeah, 80 million would be way more than City was worth in of itself.
I did wonder in the past though if some of the tech behind the game in of itself may have had more value than the IP-- super sidekicking, power customization, AE, etc. Even those things, unique as they may be, I don't see making the City franchise worth 80 million. -
Quote:Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
One can only hope people don't get so emotionally involved.
As for the rest of your hyperbole; meh. To say that CoH was "healthy" is quite the stretch as it was BARELY maintaining it's revenue the past few years and is anemic in comparison to 2-3 years ago.
Posi's statement about CoH being the Largest/Most active may be true, but rest assured some MMO will take it's place sooner than later than can "boast" that. I mean SWG probably could have boasted such claims when it was shut down. I doubt CoH will have much effect NOW on the MMO industry; it didn't have that much of an effect when it was active. Most people I know moved on very shortly after 8/31 to GW2, STO, and CO. Not all CoH players are as "emotionally" attached as some/most...nor do they harbor such ill will as some people towards NCSoft.
Emotional attachment brings financial investment in a MMO. Certainly a Game Studio wants you to care about your gaming experience-- that's how they make money off you. They may laugh at you behind your back, but they are still going to do everything they can to get you to buy yet another goodie for $4.99.
The Devs didn't expect such an abrupt closure with a new issue on the horizon-- they were still hiring relatively recently. So as far as they knew, they had no reason to expect their jobs to be at risk. To be fair, I don't know how much advance warning other game studios got, but I'd wager their upper management knew they were on the bubble well before Paragon did.
Heck, NCSoft had made major investments in Paragon even AFTER COH failed in Korea. They wouldn't have done that if they hadn't expected to get a decent return on investment. They may not have gotten it, but until relatively recently they were giving the impression to Paragon they were satisfied with its performance.
The people you know-- the people who moved on-- on average, how much did they spend on COH? Would they have stuck around if COH HADN'T closed? There's always going to be casual MMOers ... people who don't particularly game if ANY game closes down. There are also going to be those who will only PLAY one game in their life.
Observer bias. You and your friends may have no real emotional investment in the game. Myself and others may have a far greater attachment to it than its actual impact warrants.
What no one knows-- yet-- is if there are going to be any serious repercussions to NCSoft-- or the MMO industry as a whole-- afterwards.
You could be right. A year from now no one but a few diehards may care that COH was ever here.
But you could also be wrong. -
Go see it.
It's a fun way to spend a few hours.
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I have to admit on a certain level I wonder if NCSoft did some damage to the whole MMO concept with their decision to cancel COH so abruptly ... at least in the Western Markets.
Personally, I can't see myself ever getting as emotionally attached to another MMO as I am to COH. Not because there isn't a game out there that is-- or won't be someday-- that's just as entertaining and fun as COH but because having been burned by such an unexpected closure-- one that not even the Devs knew was coming-- I can't see myself be willing to invest as much time and money in another game like I did COH.
With MMOs basically gong to a FTP micro-transaction based economy, they are to a larger degree than before more dependent on customer loyalty. When they shut down such a seemingly healthy game, they didn't just affect the COH customer ... they also affected the other players of other games who read about it. Will the DC Online fan or the Champions Fan-- or the fan of any MMO that isn't WOW-- now think twice about spending $10, $20, $50 or $100.00 on a costume or pet or powerset knowing that even if their game seems healthy right now it could wind up on the chopping block at any time?
To be sure, there are many people who are just MMO fans. When a given game shuts down, they just move on to another-- or never spend more than a few months or any given game-- but there's also the long term "been here since beta" fans of every game. How many of THOSE fans are going to cut back their financial or emotional involvement in a game because of what's happened to COH?
I don't know. There may not be any effect at all, but it is something I've pondered lately. -
You can't fault the Dev Formerly Known as Synapse for taking a job to put food on the table, but I do find it a pity that it may be years before I ever get to see his work again.
('Cause I am NEVER buying another NCSoft Game.) -
Quote:Originally Posted by Hit Streak
As I've mentioned before, I'll keep these running every week as long as there's an audience.
=-> Jessie
Thanks, Hit Streak. I want you to know that many COH Players do appreciate the hard work you're putting in during a very unhappy time for our community. -
Quote:I don't think any of the Devs who might be contemplating forming their own studio would have started anything at all before the 60 days ran out.Originally Posted by Brillig
Even if they started on September 1, they're probably nowhere near ready to make a crowdfunding pitch yet.
Assuming it's anything more substantial than an smartphone app.
Anyway, based on the history of the biggest Kickstarters, time isn't a barrier. In fact a little nostalgia might actually help their fundraising...
I have to admit that I'm curious as to what they might come up with though if they DO form their own studio. I assume they'd have to license or build a whole new game engine. (I wouldn't expect Cryptic to license their engine to a competitor if they didn't have a legal obligation to do so.)
I would hope they would come out with SOME product ASAP. Not a full fledged game, necessarily, but something like a stand alone costume creator or even a web or phone based game. Something to show they're working towards a long term goal that would be profitable enough to attract investors. -
I'm glad they're landing on their feet. That's not something that's a given these days.
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Quote:I don't think there was enough for Herman to do.Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
I cringed during this whole thing. I really did not like it. The idea was okay, but half the characters just didn't work for me. Izzard was the only interesting performance and yes, Marilyn was the creepiest of them all. I actually think she was always the creepiest from the original but they never really went that direction before.
There was no Herman Munster in this show. That wasn't even close. -
I thought it was much better than I expected and I would watch a series about it if it ever got picked up.
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Quote:And that is the thing to remember. COH took time to evolve and become the great game that it is today. Champions now is better than it was when I first played it-- it may get better still. And the same goes for DC Online.Originally Posted by Scythus
Yeah, no kidding. Who wants to be Spider-Man in a group of other Spider-Mans? Clone Arcs aside, that just doesn't help with individuality.
Hahaha. Yeah. The options on that game are so limited.
This is why I will be going to Champions after our game goes away, because it is the only one of the three that even approaches City of Heroes' versatility in customization. Sure, it doesn't have as much stuff as CoH right now, but it's only 3 years old. -
To a certain extent, City of Heroes was a lucky accident, lightning in a bottle that even Paragon Studios might not be able to duplicate.
It's very casual friendly and it attracted people who had never played MMOs. (I had never touched one before COH and the idea of paying a monthly fee for a game over and over seemed silly to me, but the prospect of being a super hero lured me in.) The community-- for the most part-- FEELS a bit older and more mature. The lack of in game loot (gear that could significantly raise your performance) and forced PVP made COH pretty friendly for the novice.
I don't really think Cryptic expected the game to become what it did, and it may never come again no matter how hard anyone works to duplicate the experience.
Our ex Devs have a TREMENDOUS amount of good will and support from us right now. If I were a studio with openings, I would certainly hire as many of them as possible-- both because of their individual talents and what community support they might bring with them.
Could Melissa, Matt, and Brian et al form a new studio and make awesome new games? I have no doubt of that. Could they replicate the success of COH?
THAT I'm not so sure of. -
Can anyone summarize what was said?
I am hoping that we heard that the former Paragon Studios staff are doing well on their job searches.
(COH may be going, but at least we have hopes that those talented people will again to create us something for us in the future!)
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Thank you for all your hard work.
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I have been playing Champions Online and enjoying it for the most part but I had a mission last night that I almost pulled my hair out over.
I have noticed this in both CO and DC Online, so perhaps it's a standard MMO feature that COH did not adopt, but in those games if you leave the instance all the enemies you fought respawn. And in CO, at least, when you die the enemies regain full health.
Can make for a LONG night... o.0 -
I bought CO nearly two years ago and I never made it much farther than the tutorial. I just didn't like the playstyle or the graphics.
I went back to it recently and once I jacked up the graphics resolution and found a powerset that I liked (the power armor one), I found that I am really enjoying the game.
Yes, the graphics are pretty cartoony and so far the game play has actually felt fairly simple, but for all that I am enjoying it. It's simple, but I am liking simple.
And honestly, so many of the costume pieces are familiar to me from COH that I'm wondering if there was some kind of agreement to share the costume pieces between games-- I've seen things like the Wonderful Wind UP Wings in CO that I know darn well were created YEARS after NCSoft bought the game.
I also have been playing a fair amount of DC Online, and I am enjoying that game too. It's nice to be able to run on walls or over water. (The Skillsets -- think our attack powers-- are lacking IMO, but I have been enjoying the story and the graphics.)
Nothing will ever be COH, but there are plenty of games out there that are entertaining in their own right. -
Quote:Oh, I totally hope they are.Originally Posted by shadow35
Yeah, he corrected it later. But now I can't change the title.
So I changed the post at least, lol.
Poor Hitstreak. You can tell this is as hard on him as it is on us. I'm grateful for his strength of character, though.
And he said he can't speak about whether or not Paragon is incorporating under another banner. But let's hope they are in some fashion.
The next best thing to saving COH would be for the Paragon Devs to form their own independent studio and be able to make awesome games for us all without NCSoft interference! -
Quote:If talks are over, then I'd like to know what caused them to fail ...Originally Posted by Cherokee
All rumor. All of it. We havent seen anything from them about it. No use talking about something that very likely never took place.
Offers? Nope they never said anything solid about that or their true intentions.. All speculation .. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Another_Fan
As far as we know they didn't even solicit offers.
We had word that some of the devs were trying to work out something to allow them to spin the game and Paragon Studio off from NCSoft. This response makes it sound like that's not going to happen .... -
So I bought The Secret World today. Love the premise, the graphics of the game are okay, but the default character looks and movements are kinda blah.
Champions Online may be playable ... it'll be where I'll go for my Near COH Fix.
DC Online has a gorgeous world and I'm getting used to the characters. But gameplay is not what I'd like.
Downloaded the WOW trial. I may give that a try simply because I know so many people who play it. -
Thanks for all your hard work, Zwill, and I hope you find a place that respects your professionalism and dedication.
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Yeah. My questions regarding Penny Yin and Clockwork King didn't get answered either ...
Ah, well. -
Quote:^--- this for me too.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
My account expires in May of 2013. I bought a one-year sub around the same month this year. Will the time I paid for beyond November 30 be lost or will I receive a refund?
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I have two that come to mind.
Back in 2005 when COV came out, I was on Protector running my Bots/Dark MM Space Cadet. This was back before AVs would become EBs solo. It was also back before you could transfer money between servers, let alone between heroes and villains. My MM had only a few Sos, and no one I knew who played at the time were playing on Protector.
And I had to fight Aurora Borealis as a full class hero ... I.E. AV status.
So I took a deep breath, entered the mish .. and BEAT her!
That was the first time in game that I had ever SOLOed anything at the AV level.
I finished, exited the mission and was about to boast of my accomplishment in Broadcast, and then shut up because I didn't want to help spur a MM nerfing.
My second time some friends and I were on Guardian fighting Black Swan (I think). I was on my IL/Kin Controller Simon McCoy. Everyone else died and it was just me and Swan.
And I was holding my own.
"Go Simon go!" One of them shouted.
I was way too busy because I knew as soon as I missed a heal I was a goner, but I said aloud to myself, "For gosh sakes you had time to hospital and get back here!"
After what felt like an eternity, they rezzed and helped me finish her off. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Who you gonna play. Spiderman or the Kangaroo?
Gamers being what they are, if the Kangaroo happens to be a great farming build I'm sure the game will be hopping.