Black_Scourge

Ok, I like the idea of unlockable contacts. But this one needs fixing. So you need 200 family bosses to unlock this one. Where do we find Family bosses in mass outside of a mission? NE ST. Martial is were you find these guys. But guess what? The lowest boss you'll find is lvl 36. Which means you'll need a team around that lvl to farm them, b/c they run from lvl 36-40. This would be fine but the catch is this. The contact WONT talk to you if your lvl 35 or above!

So now this means you've got to find ppl lvl 36+ willing to take a break from sweet mission xp bonus to farm a badge that wont work for them, to kill 200 bosses. Why dont you devs do us the favor and allow ppl lvl 35-40 to do this content. Its a pain enough farming this badge, but then to deprive us too, come on.

At this point I'll be happy if they just reduce the damage that AS does.

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But its pretty obvious someone like yourself who has to resort to personal insults, you had no arguement of the bat. And btw, you think my toons were plvled? Think again you inbred goat-[censored], its called playing the game for more than 15 months. But you knew that right?

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From 0 to irony in three sentences.

BTW: Regardless of whether he has an argument or not, you've nicely avoided commenting on the fact that players should be expected to plan for and plan to over come the obstacles of PvP rather than just hitting it all with a great equalizer bat and rendering it complete.

This point was raised by myself, and others, and you've handily avoided it by diving head-first into a flame fest.

Seems like you prefer your one shot kills too.

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Plan for a plan? Can you be alittle more specific? If your referring to a particular group, like an sg having a "plan" for stalkers thats fine. Ive already gave all the folks in my sg recommondations on powers to prevent getting ganked. But thats not what the whole of my arguement is. If you read some of my more recent posts you may get the jist of it.

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Another thing, isnt it funny how all the ppl making guides to counter stalker ganking are stalkers themselves? Is it conscience kicking in? Are they worried they know they're gonna get nerfed so need to scramble for damage control? Its the same knee-jerk reaction ppl have with cover-ups, lol.

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This just shows how immature you're being on this. I've posted a few times in support of stalkers and keeping things the way they are. I have ZERO stalkers and a ton of squishy defenders. I have been killed by stalkers quite a few times. But, as I said before, I've had them fail at AS or fail at an attempt at AS, and I've killed them many times.

Your entire faulty premise is built on incorrect fact that there is nothing you can do to prevent the attack and that it's a simple "push the button and I win" scenario. Many have told you how this is not true but your stubborness appears to be endless and you're being really close minded on the subject.

Does it occur to you that maybe some people don't agree? That some people don't find it as big as a problem as you do? That while some agree with you a good portion do not? You do get to express your opinion but you don't get to enforce it on the rest of us.

Have you played a stalker yet? You seem to think it's very easy and a no brainer but others are telling you that it isn't true. Instead of trying it for yourself you just basically call them liars. How you can honestly form an opinion without "walking a mile in their shoes" is beyond any rational thought.

You have the right to express your opinion on what it's like to be on the receiving end of a stalker attack, as do I. But you don't have the right to say what it's like on their end of the deal until you try it. Trying to talk about balance when you've only seen one side of the story is foolish and hypocritical at best.

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Untrue, I know how to deal with the stalker issue. My toons dont neccessarily have the same major problem everyone else does. I pvp alot, i do keep on my toes. But that not why I started this thread. Stalkers get to pretty much one shot the larger portion of the pvp population without risk. I see it all day in pvp zones. I start a team in the zones and start seeing ppl instantly die repeatedly and eventually quit the team b/c these newcomer or even vetrans are fed up with stalkers killing them with full health. Ppl get stuck in fights, one shotted. Ppl get snagged on terrain, one shotted. Ppl stop to send a tell, one shotted. Ppl activate a power with a long activation time, one shotted. Ppl stop for a second to scratch their [censored], guess what? One shotted. Stalkers have created a FPS environment in a MMO world. PVP was just getting REALLY good. But now its just regressed to keeping a look out for stalkers and trying to chase them down all day as they SJ away to the safe zone or til the stealth abilities kick in. Its not fun for alot of us anymore. And when I say alot of "us" I mean every non-stalker AT.

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You entered the PvP zone without ...

[/ QUOTE ] <lol> So anyone who doesn't enter a PvP zone with stacked +Perception should just stay out? You sure you want that to be the mantra for leaving things as status quo?

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How do you define this?

[/ QUOTE ] Anything you can one-shot without inspirations. Why don't give those AT's a "one-shot Stalker's" power? Sound like fun for you? But we'll allow them to not only become totally invisible...we'll allow them to see you. Sure...they'll have to spend 20 minutes setting it up....and all you'll have to do to avoid it is keep moving...which of course means you won't be able to AS without fear of getting AS'd yourself. Sound like fun? Remember..just keep moving.

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People are forced to team enough in PvE already.

[/ QUOTE ] And yet you think it's fun to force only CoH players to team in PvP?

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No one is forcing you to enter PvP zones alone or with a team that does not have the necessary powers/skills to help combat stalkers.


[/ QUOTE ] So one AT should be allowed to preclude 4 of the 5 AT's from playing PvP solo? Who gets to do that to the Villians? What AT in CoH forces 4 out of 5 AT's to team in CoV? It sure as hell ain't blasters.

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and then come back and tell us how "easy" it is.

[/ QUOTE ] Who cares? I don't care if it's easy or not...the point is that it isn't fun on the Hero side. That's what matters. If the devs feel that Stalkers should have that effect on CoH PvP...then they run the risk that PvP will be underutilized. Do you think Stalkers should be the only AT to get to solo in PvP? What gives Stalkers that right?

Are you so blind as to not see the animosity this situation has created? Is anyone complaining about Brutes, Dominators, Corruptors, Masterminds to the same degree? Do you really think the devs are smart just to turn a blind-eye and ignore all the people that are unhappy about PvP based soley on Stalkers?

We'll see what happens.

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First off the only thing forcing you to team in PVP or PVE is YOU!! The only person who can determine the FUN of PVP is the person behind the keyboard, i.e. YOU. Stalkers are not problem, people who take there Uber build into a PVP zone thinking they are just gonna rock the house get a fanatastic wake up call with being taken out by a Stalker. Booo hooo- it can't be ME or my UBER BUILD that is the problem....IT MUST BE THE STALKERS!!! Please!! It is hyperbole crap like this that is ridiculous and gets the nerfs started. Stop blaming the Stalker or the AT, and look in the mirror. The blame is on you.

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Looking at your sig, you obviously have no full grasp on the game. Before you start telling ppl they are the problem, learn the game 1st.

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Do you think Stalkers should be the only AT to get to solo in PvP? What gives Stalkers that right?

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Exactly.

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However, I have never heard people on my team complain, not even squishies, when they get one-shotted by monsters or AV's. We know where the threat is, we elected to fight that threat, we know that we could have avoided it by staying out of range, popping Lucks before we engaged, or calling for extra teammates. So the it becomes evident that the problem is not the one-shot...it is the events surrounding that experience.

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You entered the PvP zone without a teamate with Tactics, Clear Mind, Targeting Drone, any Hide Dropping Aura or Accuracy Inspirations. You knew there is a potential threat to you by entering (the message box can't be made clearer).

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I agree with you 100%. But I guarrantee no stalker advocates will even challenge your post, they only prey on the squishies......errrr, the weak.

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I will challenge it. With my stalker, I attack Tankers, Scrappers, Brutes, Corruptors... am I only preying on "squishies" this way?

For every stacking stealth power a stalker can take, there are power/buff combinations that can trump it. Skilled players who are hit with AS and survive (yes I agree that not all of them can) will run and recover after the first shot. Unskilled players stand there and get taken out by a second and third attack after placate hits them. That's not "overpowered" or a bug in the game. That's a player knowing how to pvp.

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I am curious why Stalkers can one-shot squishies...but squishies can't one-shot stalkers?

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How do you define this? Blasters are low HP (ie squishy). A blaster who uses AIM + Buildup + Buffs + Popping several reds can very easily 1 shot a Controller, Defender, Corruptor or Stalker. This same combo can wipe out an entire group if they use a nova power.

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Trick Question: Why not put Stealth + Hide mobs with Assassin Strike in CoH PvE missions?

So why is it suddenly "fun" for players to be exposed to that in PvP?

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People are forced to team enough in PvE already. Adding in such a feature would lead to people not being able to solo PvE missions at all and quitting the game. No one is forcing you to enter PvP zones alone or with a team that does not have the necessary powers/skills to help combat stalkers.

Try playing a stalker with Hide/Stealth/Invis Buffs and take on a team that has Tactics, Hide dropping auras, Clear Minds and other buffs stacked on them. No one in a properly set up group will get 1 shot by AS, except if they are stuck outside the group and rooted when using a power that has a long animation.

Honestly, try playing a stalker first and taking on a well specced/buffed group (or individual) and then come back and tell us how "easy" it is.

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I just love when you stalkers come up with these grandiose, elaborate ways to prevent stalker attacks or see thru hide/stealth or even compare a blasters front-load dmg. You ppl are incredible.

Sure yeah let me get my clear mind, and my IR goggles, and my uber buffs from 3 random ATs so I can be prepare to repel a LONE stalker from 1 shotting me, what a laugh!

I dont want to have the support of 3 different ppl to prevent getting one shotted repeatedly. I dont want my team to follow me like a dog to stay in range of 3 different tactics running.

Why should it take 3 non-scrappers to fend off a one man killing machine? The ratio is waaaay off.

A stalker doesnt need all the buffs and reds as you describe for a blaster to one shot anything less than a brute/tank/scrapper, all they need in BU+AS. And there is a huge different between seeing an opponent shining like a rainbow from all those buffs, gunning for ya, and a stalker who you only see after your dick's in the dirt.

Another thing, isnt it funny how all the ppl making guides to counter stalker ganking are stalkers themselves? Is it conscience kicking in? Are they worried they know they're gonna get nerfed so need to scramble for damage control? Its the same knee-jerk reaction ppl have with cover-ups, lol.

Another thing, I love when these stalkers tell us "your in a pvp zone, JUST KEEP MOVING!" Hogwash. Moving thru zone has pitfalls, ledges, and other obstacles that ppl get stuck on. Sometimes thats all a stalker needs to pull off an AS. Not to mention ppl get stuck in animations that would give stalkers a window of opportunity. So do give me that "keep moving" crap.

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Trick Question. The answer doesn't matter. It has the same psychological effect that a one-shot does.

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Bingo. This was exactly my point.

PvP is a very fine balance and there are a lot of ways to creatively combine powers for extreme effect. Assassin Attacks, while powerful, are only the most visable (irony?) example. There are others which are worse and whatever solution we come up with for 'The one shot problem' has to address as many variations as we can identify.

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I submit...it is not the one-shot that is the problem, it is the feeling that one cannot avoid the one shot and the constant annoyance of reoccuring attempts. I have no issue with running up to a blaster and getting killed by all the mines he or she has laid down. I'd have a problem if that blaster could use an "invisible hand" and get me from anywhere on the map....and there were ridiculously few powers or ways to stop it.

I don't have a problem if I see a brute teamed with three Kinetics Corruptors ...who fire Fulcrum Shift...and I get one shot.

While in Siren's, I get TP Foe'd into a throng of MM's with Tar Patch and minions ..good for them. I saw where they set up and stayed out of range.

But getting one-shot when you can't see the target...or knowing that if the one-shot misses, you still won't be able to defeat the target is not "Fun" (tm) for anyone but the person doing the killing.

It's fun to fight Stalkers who can one-shot me...provided that I can see them...and have an opportunity to stop the one shot...even when I don't succeed and still get one-shotted.


But the inviso + one-shotting + escaping feels like griefing = not Fun.

I am curious why Stalkers can one-shot squishies...but squishies can't one-shot stalkers? Wouldn't that be a fair trade off for PvP?....risk=reward?

As you point out...trying to stop "one-shotting" is a like chasing your tail. There is no functional difference between getting one-shotted versus ten shotted if you feel like you have no recourse in either situation.

However, I have never heard people on my team complain, not even squishies, when they get one-shotted by monsters or AV's. We know where the threat is, we elected to fight that threat, we know that we could have avoided it by staying out of range, popping Lucks before we engaged, or calling for extra teammates. So the it becomes evident that the problem is not the one-shot...it is the events surrounding that experience.

Trick Question: Why not put Stealth + Hide mobs with Assassin Strike in CoH PvE missions?

So why is it suddenly "fun" for players to be exposed to that in PvP?

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I agree with you 100%. But I guarrantee no stalker advocates will even challenge your post, they only prey on the squishies......errrr, the weak.

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There should be no attack in the game other than Nukes, that should do more than 75% of a squishies health, period. This game will be a better place.

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Also....a nuke is an AOE attack. It can attack tons of people at once. Why the hell should it be the only attack capable of doing serious damage?

THAT would be unbalanced!

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Blasters dont have stacked stealth, blasters lose all end after a nuke. Nukes have hella-long recharge rates. Whats the down fall to using AS? Maybe that will solve the problem...after a successful AS maybe stalkers should lose all end. Would you like that? I think not.

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Interruptables
It appears that these are also dependent on the characters AT and build. They are also not reactive. I believe that these AoE effects must be activated before the Stalker attacks. They are not a response to a Stalker but a precaution.


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When you're in an open PvP zone, you know Stalkers are running around. If you choose not to turn on a toggle that prevents an AS, it's your fault if it happens to you. That's just common sense.

I've never once had a Kin Controller or Defender yell at me cause I AS'd them - they blamed themselves because they forgot to turn on Repel.

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The problem with interuptable AOEs are that stalkers are defensive sets and alot of the time the AOE dont even land.

Yeah and it was great when I was running around with 3 Phantasm and was able to stack 3-4 LRs on ya. The point is everything gets tweeked for some concept of balance. I havent spoke against stalkers til recently, bc i didnt want to make an impartial arguement based on so little time. But now its clear they need fixing.

And way back when ILL/rad where dominating in the arena stacking slow I called a nerf to my own favorite toon b4 they ever considered the nerf to LR. This was bc at a certain point I couldnt get a damn match.

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Personally, I don't think it's possible to completely eliminate all scenarios where a defender is defeated without a chance to react. I think what is possible is the elimination of the defeat by a single attack.

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*nod* I think you're right. There's just always going to be situations where a player can be killed instantly or nearly-instantly without a chance to react. Just pointing out the fact that there are similarities.

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Is it just me or can't most of these PvP "problems" be solved by not standing still in a free fire zone. Seems to me that if I knew that I was going into a dangerous area, I'd be constantly ducking, dodging, and taking cover. If I cross the sign that says "now leaving the US controlled zone", I better put on my gear, get ready for battle, and put the pedal to the metal.

Maybe all of these problems can be solved by having the PvP zone rep say, "Standing around may get you killed." or maybe "Stalkers in mirror are closer than they appear"

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I'd have to disagree here. Assuming that constant movement is effective against Stalkers and that all players learn this, Stalkers will need to do one of these:

1) Wait for the player to become bored of moving- No fun for either player

2)Wait for an unaware player to enter the zone - No fun for the, presumably, new player

3)Leave the Zone. No fun for the Stalker.

I think requesting that all other players move constantly to counter a threat some cannot perceive is not really a solution that leads to a fun PvP experience for more than about 2 minutes.

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All a person has to do to get ASed is be stuck in an animation for more than 2 seconds, and then they are dead. This includes just replenishing a buff like Tactics, Assault, etc..
Its not some outlandish thing like having your thumb up yer [censored], bored out of your mind, standing still in a hot zone nonesense.

PVP zones are turning into FPS games. Its quite sad. I'm not here to play Counter-strike. And I have changed all my toons with the last respec to counter stalkers, it still doesnt change my views.

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I believe Statesman's criterion when he commented on the one-shot issue was that it eliminated player interaction. The defender had no role in the kill.

That's the case when you're TP Foed into caltrops and mines. There's no chance of interaction by the defender, they're immediately killed. So yeah, by that criterion it's a one-shot.

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What about all the Holds/Sleep/Immobilzed/ETC. That pretty much elimintes my interaction.

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Being mezz isnt an insta-kill. You still have a chance to react or even use an inspiration.

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Quick question:

Is Caltrops + (Trip Mine * 3) a "One Shot" or is it 4 attacks?

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Bad example. There is alot more prep to that combo. TP foe or luring prey to a visible trap. Not a mobile, ultra stealth one shot killing machine.

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Are we talking about PvP here or did you just try and solo Requiem at level 10?

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Actually it doesn't matter. Barring the situation of tackling stuff that is way beyond your level, getting one-shotted by anything is equivalent to the game randomly deciding it is time for you to die. Even getting 95% swatted isn't fun, since usually that other 5% has already been queued by another critter before you know what happened. And not being afforded an opportunity at all to respond isn't challenging in the sense that an adventure game is fun to play, it is challenging in the sense that draws people to Roulette or slot-machines.

So it really doesn't matter if what one-swatted you was a stalker, AV, nasty boss, or even a lucky minion. It sucks regardless of how it happens. Relying on random insta-death (from the dieing player's perspective) isn't challenging, it is a design crutch. It might have been fun back in the SNES days but this isn't Super Mario.

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Well said.

PVP requires no skill now if all a person has to do is make sure their victim has no perception powers/defense and one shot them. This becomes even easier when your victim is preoccupied with another opponent.

I dont mind getting 2 shotted. 2 shotted means I have a reasonable chance to heal, escape, retailiate. And I dont wanna be forced to play a more hearty, boring AT just bc there is a few ATs out there than have this 1 shotting advantage. Thats why I refuse to play blasters/stalkers. Hitting the "I win button" is pathetic. It requires no thought.

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Just wanted to say that it does take skill to play a stalker.

That is all.

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Just wanted to laugh at that. Stalker really was "Easy Mode" for me. That's why I abandoned the AT. It just made every victory feel...cheap.

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Couldnt have said it better myself.

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Can't live much longer? Sorry ninja but that's if you have the brilliant idea of attempting an AS in the middle of multiple opponents. Other than that, you just placate and prepare AS again.


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Yes and while the stalker placates you the target is completely helpless and is unable to I don't know use respites, +HP powers (like dull pain and such) or pop lucks so that AS misses so that the stalker does not stand a chance.

/rolls eyes.

If you hate stalkers so much why don't you get + perception powers. You don't go out in below zero weather butt naked then blame the weather because you got sick

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Wow popping greens dont work if your 1 shotted, Sherlock. And you ppl act like its soooo easy to build up +perception powers. Not all ppl enetering a pvp zone has a team rdy with the luxury of perception powers. As a matter of fact outside of Tactics (which its useless alone), scrappers, and some defender buffs there isnt many to go around. And finding 3 ppl on a team ALL with Tactics is tough. And dont even start with yellow.

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PVP requires no skill now if all a person has to do is make sure their victim has no perception powers/defense and one shot them. This becomes even easier when your victim is preoccupied with another opponent.

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That requires no skill? So then why is it that I've lived thru AS before with multiple defenders. It's not a lock for a kill. If it were a no brainer it would work 100% of the time no matter what the stalker did. That isn't the case.

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I dont mind getting 2 shotted. 2 shotted means I have a reasonable chance to heal, escape, retailiate. And I dont wanna be forced to play a more hearty, boring AT just bc there is a few ATs out there than have this 1 shotting advantage. Thats why I refuse to play blasters/stalkers. Hitting the "I win button" is pathetic. It requires no thought.

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If you force the stalker into a 2 shot then "you win" each time. The stalker can't live much longer after a failed AS. So we should doom the stalker because you don't like to play them? A bit selfish don't you think?

Oh, and you don't have to play a tanker or scrapper to defeat a stalker but you have to change your tactics. Are you against adapting to the situation or something? Why can't you pick up a perception boosting power, or team with someone who has it, or stay close to a teammate who can help? In other words .. adapt?

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You stalkers pretend you has no defense WHATSOEVER! There has been many times my HOed scrapper with his 2 perception powers (tons of ACC), still miss 2-3 times when trying to attack a stalker b4 he hits AS. You also have mez protection too. Compare it to blasters, yes they have ranged atts, but no mezz prot. Huge disadvantage but more bearable. So what your saying is that the WHOLE 2ndary powerset for stalkers is totally useless, other than hide? I guess the heals and defense buff are worthless. /sarcasm off.

The point of ED was so things like overpowered attacks would be less preveilant. Stalkers contradict to point.

Patience does not = skill.

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Are we talking about PvP here or did you just try and solo Requiem at level 10?

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Actually it doesn't matter. Barring the situation of tackling stuff that is way beyond your level, getting one-shotted by anything is equivalent to the game randomly deciding it is time for you to die. Even getting 95% swatted isn't fun, since usually that other 5% has already been queued by another critter before you know what happened. And not being afforded an opportunity at all to respond isn't challenging in the sense that an adventure game is fun to play, it is challenging in the sense that draws people to Roulette or slot-machines.

So it really doesn't matter if what one-swatted you was a stalker, AV, nasty boss, or even a lucky minion. It sucks regardless of how it happens. Relying on random insta-death (from the dieing player's perspective) isn't challenging, it is a design crutch. It might have been fun back in the SNES days but this isn't Super Mario.

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Well said.

PVP requires no skill now if all a person has to do is make sure their victim has no perception powers/defense and one shot them. This becomes even easier when your victim is preoccupied with another opponent.

I dont mind getting 2 shotted. 2 shotted means I have a reasonable chance to heal, escape, retailiate. And I dont wanna be forced to play a more hearty, boring AT just bc there is a few ATs out there than have this 1 shotting advantage. Thats why I refuse to play blasters/stalkers. Hitting the "I win button" is pathetic. It requires no thought.

There should be no attack in the game other than Nukes, that should do more than 75% of a squishies health, period. This game will be a better place.

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So I've seen the "I don't want to PvP" vs. "Its a PvP zone, don't enter it if you don't want to" endless back and forth.

I'm going to say my peace on this issue.

I don't particularly like PvP unless I know who I'm playing with. I've seen it lead to too much jack-[censored] behavior in an uncontrolled environment. BUT, if you want to keep it in a separate "You have a choice" zone, that's fine.

I play CoH to get a superhero fix and beat AI villains, follow a storyline, and play co-op with my friends.

Putting PvP in discrete zones made sense to me - if I don't like it, I'll stay out, but if I want to give it a try, there's where I go. That's OK with me.

Until Last Night.

Last night, I was playing, when my Contact showed me a potential mission - that REQUIRED me to go into a PvP zone.
There was no optional other mission...that was the ONLY mission that contact would provide. If I wanted to proceed with that contact in any way I would HAVE to enter a PvP zone.

Very irritated and disappointed, I went to my other contacts.
Ones whom I KNEW had other missions, since I had talked to them previously to see my options.

Surprise, every mission that they had previously been ready to offer me was gone - replaced by THE EXACT SAME PvP ZONE required mission.

I've seen endless PvPers on this board say, if you don't like it, don't enter a PvP zone. Guess what? When one has no choice but to enter a PvP zone, that off the cuff response holds no water.

EVERY contact I have will only give me a PvP zone mission. As someone who does not want to PvP, the PvE contacts are now FORCING me to enter a PvP zone, and I have no contacts that won't.

My ability to choose my style of play is being taken away from me.

So when I cancel my subscription, at least I've made myself perfectly clear. I hope the Devs read this, and give the PvEers back the ability to play the game they choose, and not force a type of unwanted online play upon them.

And that's all there is to it.

Oh, and don't bother flaming me or this post, these are the facts of my experience and my opinion. No browbeating or leet curse words will change them. The purpose is to make them known, and what you do with it from there is your concern, not mine.

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Let me tell you a story. My lvl 20 Bot/Dark MM took a contact in Siren's call. I assumed it was just talk to the guy in the safe zone and leave, but he sent me into the zone for a handful of missions. If you guys been following some of these threads, you'll know that Bot MM's have a bug where their pets do NO damage in PVP. That's right, none. And the greater part of our dmg is from pets. I still had no problem running into the zone to do the missions. Zipping around the zone with a couple of Break-frees and respites with a travel power is FINE. DiDn't get killed once. And if I did die, I know I wouldn't get debt, it would only be a 30 sec inconvience.

Seriously dood, grow a spine. Its a game. There are a variety of hazards in every zone. The devs have gone out of their way to make PVP as painless as possible. Rain on someone elses parade. You ppl really show the meekness of the human race. If you were related to me, I would beat you silly until you grew some balls. Otherwise, I would be ashamed to have such a pansy in my family.

Ok imagine if you have a full sg of 50's, and they all contribute 10 mill USELESS influence to the base fund.

10 mill inf= 20k prestige
20k prestige times 75 members= 1.5 mill prestige......not bad to start, but can get better, alot better. The exchange rate needs to change.

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If our powers cost less end AFTER this "enhancement diversification" joke, why would we bother DIVERSIFYING our slotting by putting in end reducts? No reason to. So by throwing us this "bone", you are breaking your own system.

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"Diversification" is the word they decided to use to soften the true nature of disasterous nerf. It's a marketing term, like calling used cars......"pre-owned" cars. When all is said and done its just another damn nerf.

Twirling moustache and rubbing hands together in semi-circular motion. Shaking your fist in the air with some banther. Sinister gloating over a incapacitated body.