Yomo_Kimyata
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:A little experimentation is good. And getting saddled with a few thousand boresights might add some perspective to the OP.Originally Posted by Hydrophidian
I'm willing to bet most of us did. I know I did (I will rule the Spirit Thorns!). Didn't end well.
And I suspect it's why this sort of (attempted) manipulation seems to happen with greater frequency these days: More and more people deciding to play with the market, each one of them almost invariably engaging in those very same experiments--hey, I wonder if I can do this--and eventually deciding, 'Wow, this blows! There's gotta be better ways to make a profit...'
...then discovering that there are.
I think that anyone who assumes some sort of conspiracy is working against them should try to prove out their assumptions. After all, even paranoids have enemies. -
Quote:It actually gets a lot worse: "At" and "For" are used as shortcuts for selling and buying respectively. "10 at $50" and "10 for $50" mean entirely different things, and when it comes up before an arbitration board, as it will any time someone loses money, the person who used the wrong word is out money.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Perhaps that's true in a market context, which would certainly be appropriate here, but in the vernacular, when you want to buy something you "make an offer".
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Quote:That's why the financial markets switched to bid and offer instead of offer to buy and offer to sell a few hundred years ago to make things clearer. It's not a big deal, but generally if someone refers to an "offer" without a qualification as to buy or sell, it is an offer to sell.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Perhaps that's true in a market context, which would certainly be appropriate here, but in the vernacular, when you want to buy something you "make an offer".
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Quote:Uber, just about every exchange in the world with the exception of the US real estate market uses the term "offer" as an order to sell and the term "bid' as an order to buy. It's a crying shame that CoX put that word "Offer" on the button when you want to buy something.Originally Posted by UberGuy
What are "standing offers?" Are you talking about bids to buy or listings to sell? I can't see how anything we're talking about would have 2700 outstanding bids, so I assume you're talking offers to sell, but I think of a "standing offer" as an offer to buy, so I wanted to be clear.
It's worse than "flammable" and "inflammable". -
Quote:I play around in that niche about once every two weeks, but not in size. Perhaps there are 50 other people like me instead of an ebil mastermind?Originally Posted by Enyalios
I can't possibly be the 1st or 2nd highest grossing person in the market right now. I KNOW that there are a couple people making more than me because I have been in active niche PvP with them over some very profitable niches and unless said people do nothing else on the market (unlikely given their niche PvP skill) they're making more than me based on their ability to take losses and keep fighting for the niche. The one person must have about 100 Gaussian Rchg/End by now too and thus will be able to make a killing going forward if they spike the recipe prices while limiting their stock.
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Berzerker, I just re-read all your posts because I'm confused about what the problem is that bugs you. You seem to have a good grasp on how the market works. And YOU seem to have a good idea on what you want out of the market, but it's not clear to me what you want out of the market. The initial impression that I got out of your post is: cheap salvage should always be cheap, because I want to buy it cheap. Is that a correct assessment? That's how I read it.
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Quote:I made a thread about this a few months ago. If the market works as we think it does, this should be impossible. If there is a bid outstanding and your offer is at that level or lower, there should be an insta-sell so long as you are not both the buyer and the seller (You can't sell to yourself on the same character, obviously). I GUESS that this only occurs when someone else locks the market on a single character at 1 (i.e., has both bids and offers at 1). They can't sell to themselves, so the system has a hissy-fit, and that screws over other people looking to sell their stuff at 1.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Hilariously enough, I listed some crappy common salvage on the market for 1 inf (5 items, i think), and there were 48 bidding (and like 10k+ selling)... and they didn't sell. I listed and sold several other items after that. Sometimes the market can make you crazy
This is a rare case, but probably IS something the developers might want to look at. Although in the global scale of things, I'd rather see mace/ice scrappers. -
Quote:Bronze 15-19 is a good realm. But not when you are generating lvl 24s. The good recipes cap at 30 and are either procs (or -knockback, etc., which i consider procs) Or have other bonuses. I have noticed (after trying to generate a market at lvl 15 and 20 for the "good stuff") that most of the bronze 15-19 recipes sell best at level 10 and level 30. Over 10-15 for the proc-types is "not good enough" for people who want to kite out their lowbies, and under 30 is "not good enough" for those who plan on levelling higher than 30.Originally Posted by Dr_Occult
Hmm, this was something I was pondering this afternoon. I have a level 24 BS/SD scrapper I was about to delete (last logged in 219 days ago) when I noticed he had 7060 AE tickets on him. I decided to roll bronze 15-19 as has been suggested, and have been outright deleting recipes that had 0 bids/0 listed as slow movers.
My instinct would be to level to 30 by hell or high water and then cash in those tickets. -
Quote:I figure that out of the 36 different types of common salvage (3x low, 3x medium, 3x high; all 2x for arcane/tech), there are only about 6-10 that you cannot buy (in bulk) for less than vendor prices over a 4-6 hour period.Originally Posted by all_hell
This is true. The higher prices get, the less likely I am to sell my supply. I would much rather sell my supply for very low prices. If salvage sold at market for less than the vendor, I would sell all of my salvage at the Market. The higher and higher that "market blockers" jack up the prices, the more I will sell my salvage to a vendor. Free market theory totally backs me up on this one. The increasing inf being offered for a good decreases the likelihood that people will want to sell it. Totally makes sense to me.
That's not saying you cannot SELL them for higher, but when I finish an evening, I vend most of them before I even check for prices. The marketplace is sick to death of mathematic proofs. They prove nothing! -
Buy every mathematic proof off the market, and relist them at 100,000,000 inf. Or 1 inf. Either way.
Hey, math is hard! -
Quote:The game is designed to be fun. Apparently some people define fun differently than you do. Some people find making imaginary inf fun, and one way they try to make imaginary inf it is by trading common salvage. Some people find cleaning out a market fun just because they can, or because it annoys them to see 10,000 of an item listed. Some people want to play mogul in their own mind and want to try to control markets. And some people are messing around in common salvage purely to cheese you off. Their fun is different from yours.Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
Here I thought I was playing a game that was designed to be fun, and it turns it was actually designed to be tedious. I'm bringing this up partly because I think the devs ought to take a look at it. Any practical solution they can devise that doesn't cost too much to implement will certainly help their bottom line. The market is kind of a core part of the game.
Now, if someone is griefing you in game play, you certainly have recourse, but if someone else is having fun by playing their own way in a sandbox that you don't even have to play in yourself, I think it's pretty doubtful that there even is a problem, much less one that the devs feel is a legitimate concern. IMO.
Regardless, if you want cheap common salvage right now, pop in a bid or two before you log off. -
Quote:Or perhaps that the price caps are not quite high enough?Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
And this is why price caps are not a good idea
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Quote:I'll help in a few days once I get a rogue back to hero so I can convert merits! But I won't sell at one -- I'll normally craft and take my chances. I'll post the lowest of the last five sales though unless I vendor. I think this is good work on your part, by the way!Originally Posted by Daemodand
My premise is random rolls will earn an average of around 67 million inf each in the long run. Right now, I'm well below that but I guess I have at least another 1,995 rolls to make to be able to tell for sure.
Generally in stats, it's a lot easier to support or most likely reject a premise by saying it is greater or less than something, rather than it is equal to something. I didn't remember 67mm versus 65mm, so my bad on that! -
Quote:It depends on what you are trying to prove or disprove.Originally Posted by Daemodand
QUESTION: How many random rolls does it take to reach statisitcal significance?
If it is "My random roll will net me less than 65mm inf", probably a lot, especially since conditions change over time. I'd guess several thousand off hand, since we don't exactly know what the drop rates are for random rolls, there are so many recipes that can drop, and because prices on recipes will ebb and flow based on a lot of reasons. I just know enough statistics to make me dangerous to people who actually know statistics, so hopefully a real expert will posit on that!
If it is "The RNG hates me!", then just one. I, myself, have proved that one many, many times!
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Quote:One small bit of advice. Most of your drops are going to be teh suck, so crafted suck is merely more expensive to end buyers. Craft the things you *wish* you were getting as drops. If you are actually getting good stuff as regular drops, gratz and let me know how you do it!!!Originally Posted by Dr_Occult
Congrats!
I'm still working on overcoming the initial learning curve on which subsets of IOs to research to spot opportunities. I've been just crafting my drops, and *maybe* working a particular IO I run across when browsing where the rare salvage doesn't account for 75% of the crafted selling price. -
Not me. 1bn a week sounds about right, maybe a bit less. It's kind of hard to judge profit since almost everything I play in starts with something I want to slot, so buy 5 to slot 2 then resell the other three usually gets me break even-ish.
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Quote:The good news is that by my calculations you made about 116% profit! (call it 504k total cost to purchase and craft per unit, and average 1090k net revenue per sale) The bad news is that you made 116% profit on a 5mm layout that took up 10 slots.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
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Quote:I was feeling pretty happy with my sale of a lvl 50 Gaussian's Rech/End at 450mm until I saw this. Now I feel like a chump!Originally Posted by Intrinsic
That's about as big of an error as someone can possibly make, so I think you win the 'typo windfall' contest.
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Quote:"Fake" Nemeses? At least one of those guys HAS to be the real one. Or at least the seldom seen "Nemesis Ocho?"Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Ran across this precise spawn in three missions in the RWZ tonight. (Four if I wanted to be picky - two people had the same mission, slightly different settings - one plus level, one even con. Showed up in both.)
Yes. Eight fake nemesis. Yes, that's one single spawn. (Plus a warhulk and another fake in the *next* spawn.)
Oh, you know that mission where you try to save the Nemesis defector? The very squishy little ranged aggro monkey? Yeah. That was one of them. Needless to say, that didn't go very well.
I don't think I've ever seen spawns of fakes like these. Two? Sure. Fake and Warhulk? No problem. A spawn full of fakes? You have no *idea* how fun that is.
First time we saw it - team wipe. Didn't help that they bubbled each other.
Second time - the escort mission - we planned on my brute taunting and running to let the others get past. Yeah. Didn't work. NPC decided he wanted to solo the spawn.
Third time wasn't bad - two brutes, a dom and defenders make it a bit easier to separate them (especially when you have room to move.) It was actually rather nice working out a plan of attack that *worked* (and quickly) against them. Still, this is an odd spawn, especially to see several times over (and we've run these missions many times, half to full team, and haven't seen this before.)
Wondering if anyone else is seeing anything similar. -
Just curious, at what point do you lower your price? Based on what I see of the WW market, you can probably sell at 2bn if you manage it right.
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The funnest part is that I was involved in about half of the markets you mention! I am probably responsible for blowing up the Decimation triples back then.
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Quote:No doubt that purples and pvp IOs have increased in price over the past year. And if the original poster's point was "purples and pvp IOs have experienced hyperinflation" then I might agree.Originally Posted by graystar_blaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
upon review and ignoring the mini-off topic arguments in this thread I can now firmly say that we have inflation
well it may not be hyper inflation. And even though things that sell to vendors such as insp, sos, and salvage may be set in price
there is massive inflation in some areas purples and pvp ios are the obvious.
However, prices for *most* items have dropped dramatically. Is this because the players left in this game want the ultimate very rare enhancements? Sure. I know I do.
Believe it or not, you can still play this game with common IOs or even *gasp* SOs. But if you want the best most incredible enhancements, you, and everyone else, are competing for a very rare set of supplies.
So I guess the point is not so much that overall prices are higher, but that prices on things that you want are higher. -
Also, if you are going to craft a block of 10, I suggest not selling more than 1 to 3 at a time unless you think they will all sell by your next log in. It eats up your storage space, but you end up with more profits, usually.
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My first question is: is this a high demand niche or a low demand niche? Is this an enhancement that you look at and say, "Yes, I would slot this on more than one of my characters." or is it "I can see how there is a build that can use this, but it's not for me."? In general, try to aim at areas that have real solid demand for the items.
Regardless, I'd let it run throughout the weekend before pulling the plug. A block of ten is not a very big number, unless you are dealing with a very low turnover IO. I would also consider pulling just one of your offers and selling it at a low price so that you know where those outstanding bids are. And if you list it somewhere above 1 inf and somewhere below your break even, there is a pretty good likelihood that someone will come in and throw in a bid that is significantly higher than your offer.
To the greater question of when to abandon a niche, I usually wait until it bores me, which happens more frequently than you might expect. I'm not a hardcore marketer, and usually when I get involved in an area, it's because one or more of my respecs are looking at slotting that enhancement. And periodically I'll just clean out a marketing character and start again from scratch. -
In case anyone cared, all 6 sold for 1mm each.