Yomo_Kimyata
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:This wouldn't shock me at all, but then ask I myself what are they doing with that influence?Originally Posted by Fulmens
I wouldn't be surprised if we had 500 people playing the game who each have 50 billion inf, and another 50 who have 500 billion inf or more. Those are high numbers but not implausible ones.
You could hoard it in your money pit and swim in delicious inf and marketeers, which doesn't destroy it but takes it temporarily out of circulation. No net effect on inf.
You could give it to another player, as in a costume contest or in exchange for an off-market transaction. Again, no net effect on inf, and now the new player decides what to do with it.
You could use it to carve out a massive inf-generating empire on the marketplace, which succeeds in transferring inf from someone else to you with a meddlesome 10% burnage. Net inf drops.
Or you could burn it or spend it at stores any way you like. Net inf drops.
So only activity begets inf into the system. I don't hardcore farm enough to be able to accurately judge that rate.
I'm definitely not losing sleep over whether delta i is positive or negative, that's for sure!
Also, I just realized that I was using the term "disinflation" rather than "deflation", which is wrong. I'm going to edit that to the correct term. -
Quote:Gotcha and duly noted. Enyalios, that mad machine, is an outlier (I hope!). But if there are 125,000 subscribers, each with 80 characters, each with 100mm inf stored, that's what it would take to hit 1,000 trillion in systemic inf (assuming I count my zeroes correctly, which is a big assumption). That's a big tamale, and I think that is probably at least an order of magnitude high.Originally Posted by Fulmens
You might be misinterpreting some of my statements- I actually was talking about liquid inf. Enyalios has both items for sale and bids up, so to zeroth order half the value of her money machine is inf and the other half is items.
No doubt that there are a few, or a few hundred, people who are outliers and personally have a hundred billion+ or so tied up in bids and such. But those people are going to be massively inf-negative on the system if they are buying and selling on the marketplace. -
Quote:I agree that there is a lot of VALUE stored, in the form of enhancements and other goodies held in base. But in order for that value to be realized, they need to be sold or converted to inf, either through the market (which destroys inf) or through respecing a character and taking the inf on IO conversion. I'm thinking about inf in this case as a unit of currency, analogous to looking at the number of U.S. dollars in circulation (which is obviously MUCH lower than the value of the U.S. economy).Originally Posted by Fulmens
4. There's a lot of inf stored. I've known a couple people who refused to pay ridiculous prices, while still selling things for ridiculous prices, and ended up with ridiculous amounts of money that they were too cheap to spend. [... other than me, I mean. ] There are people with fifty characters with a hundred million on each that have no idea they're billionaires five times over. There are people out there with expensive marketing machines- It takes tens of billions for Enyalios to keep all her investment schemes working.
The reason why I bring this up and think that there may be a sea-change in the air is that I think that "i", although large, has decreased a lot over the last few years, and I think that "delta i" may, in fact, be negative.
That's not going to stop me from burning with the 88ers, of course, but I'm going to keep a few bn cash on hand, just in case. Maybe I'll buy some gold. Alchemical gold, even! -
Quote:The first one only destroys inf when the chracter is deleted. Otherwise it is still in the system, although in a dead-end pool. Base upkeep is prestige, and I think I covered your third point with the specifics. But thank you and Quasadu! And keep 'em coming!Originally Posted by Sailboat
Out:
*Inf stranded when a player leaves the game
*Base upkeep (probably insignificant)
*Marketeer altruism (Crazy 88s, Fulmens, and other forms of deliberate counterinflation) -
Quote:When i searched the other week, I found none of the A/R/C under the level of 50. Makes sense to me, why do I want to play the role of storage for someone else?Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
oddly enough. there are actually dozens... they just don't show up correctly in search?
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Heh, maybe you should start CREATING Malaise's Illusions in the 30s. It only takes one or two A-Merits!
I noticed this a few weeks ago. I figured it was easier to level to 50 and get the purples rather than lay out bids for a set I would probably replace eventually anyway. -
Ways for inf to enter the system:
* defeat mobs
* mission objectives
* mission completion
* selling recipes to vendor
* selling TO/DO/SO enhancements to vendor
* respecing crafted enhancements
* selling inspirations to base
more soon.
Ways for inf to exit the system:
* delete character with inf in storage
* posts an item for sale on the marketplace (5% of post price)
* sells an item on the marketplace (10% of sales price minus 5% of post price)
* buys fixed price item from marketplace (marketplace transporter)
* buys TO/DO/SO from vendor
* crafting costs
* trading inf for prestige
* converting merits to alignment merits
* costume vendor costs
* item vendor costs (e.g. jetpack)
* purchasing recipes from invention table
more soon -
So, my “main” marketing character, Invisible Fist, just got the Leader badge for 500,000,000 inf earned through defeats and mission objectives. Yay me! But it got me thinking. First, “Boy, that’s a lot of inf.” Second, “Actually, that’s not a lot of inf at all, I take more than that out of the market weekly.” Third, “I’m hungry.” Fourth, and most important, “So what?”
We talk a lot on this board about inflation and the effects the money supply has on the marketplace. But this was the first time I really thought about how the money supply comes in and out. We all know that there is an infinite amount of inf that CAN enter the system. But I’m starting to get a little concerned about the amount that IS entering or exiting the system. Note: we all know that buying and selling on the marketplace does not create inf, it destroys it. I buy something from you for 10mm, I lose 10mm inf, you receive a net 9mm inf, 1mm goes to Back Alley Brawler’s Caribbean hideaway. It’s an influence burn.
So Fist added 500mm in mob defeats and such. But hasn’t he sold over 5bn on the marketplace (10% vig) to get him to neutral inf generation? Yep. But what about vendoring? Has he sold over 500mm of items (mostly lvl 50 IO recipes) to vendors. Yep. But what about inventing? Has he created over 1k or so lvl 50 recipes? Yep. I figure Fist is roughly even on inf creation, more or less. An INF-neutral footprint, if you will.
But I can’t think of another character I have (and there are many) that is even close to having introduced as much inf into the system as they have taken out. Not even close. Several of my 88ers are many billions in the hole for burning inf for prestige.
As this game matures and makes it easier to generate items like LotG 7.5% that can be sold for inf, and introduces even more potential inf sinks in i20, isn’t there a real risk of deflation? Where more inf exits the system rather than enters it?
So, let’s call “i” the total amount of influence in the CoX system. “i” is a big number, definitely more than 100bn and in my opinion much less than 100tn. Let’s also call “delta i” the net rate at which inf enters the system on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.
Some questions for you:
1. Are you inf positive, negative, or neutral?
2. What are the sources and drains of systemic inf in this game? I’ll list the ones I know in the next post and I know I’ll miss a lot, so your input is appreciated.
3. What do you think “i” or “delta i” is?
4. Where is all this inf coming from? Is it stored? I don’t think so.
5. Do you think I am crazy in the head for thinking that a few months from now, people will be starving for inf cash?
Best, Yomo -
Quote:Everyone knows that irony is responsible for high prices, low prices, low supply, too much supply, superduperhyperinflation, purple drop rates, and jerk hacking.Originally Posted by Ironblade
Wait, is that actually ironic? I think we need a long, tedious discussion about it.
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I threw a bn on the fire (we need a base with a firepit!) and ironically we are now #88.
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I recently started a plant/storm troller and love her to death. I figure there are two ways to embrace storm summoning: control the chaos, or embrace the chaos. I play a TON on my grav/troller which fulfills my enjoyment of the latter.
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Quote:Could you expound on this? What do you mean by "crashing the market"? Normally I would expect that to be an attempt to drive prices lower, but I didn't think that was what you were trying to prove/figure out. In fact, I thought you were trying to control a market in order to raise prices. I'm a little confused, I guess, so I apologize for any misconceptions.Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
So far experiment #1 (Crashing the market) has made no progress in a week's time. -
Quote:I love my grav/storm, but I expect to love my plant/storm even more in about 30 levels. Storm has so many good powers (although some disagree) and if you are willing to invest a fair amount of inf, produces a very powerful character.Originally Posted by The Demacian
I have to say that Freezing Rain is a heavy dose of pure joy and I'm glad I stuck with this. Everyone on the ice patch is immobilized and falling down, everyone else is held or being thrown around, and I'm just grinning ear to ear.
Nyx made Grav/FF sound rather tempting, and I may still try it later, but having Freezing Rain in every fight, thanks to (sigh) Hasten, even though it makes my hands entirely the wrong color, is more fun than any other single power I have. -
Quote:They are bad, evil people. Thanks for the invite Fulmens!Originally Posted by BeornAgain
So, I am curious... What exactly ARE the Crazy 88s?
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Quote:This project had inspired me to do something similar, but I ran out of energy after about 8-10 rolls. You will get more inf from crafting, but it wasn't as much more as I thought it would be. For the good stuff like LotG 7.5% I found that you net about 30mm extra. For the marginal stuff, I found you can get 5-10mm extra from a lot of vendor trash. I think I was running about an extra 50mm net per A-Merit roll by selective crafting over selling at the lowest bid outstanding (which I approximated by the lowest of the last 5 sales of the recipe).Originally Posted by Daemodand
I have no illusions about crafting making more money in the long run. If you craft, you will get more inf, in all likelihood. Now, using the time you'd be purchasing materials, crafting, pricing and listing enhancements for running missions, I don't know if that will lead to more inf, unless you're a high end farmer (do hard core farmers craft generally speaking?)
If you don't like crafting, and you don't want to have to deal with buying the salvage and crafting and reselling the enhancements, then I can see that the extra pick up in inf may not be worth it to some people.
Thanks again for the good work. -
Someone made you burn 20mm in fees! That must have been their plan all along.
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Quote:Mmmmmmmm, delicious bait, mmmmmmm!Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
How the market remembers the previous value you entered is just flat out annoying. It's pretty much just bait to misbid!
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Quote:It came from an evil Hamidon!Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
What's that supposed to mean :O
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900,000,001. Only because I know where it came from and I love to 1 inf people.
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Quote:I misinterpreted OP's question, nevermind!Originally Posted by all_hell
Am I supposed to be able to bid more than 2bil inf in one slot?
F'rinstance, if I am bidding 300mil per item should I be able to bid for 7 of them in one slot?
I was under the impression that this was not possible. Am I mistaken? -
Quote:That is very good market color, thanks! It is a set where the the 6th slot adds value, but I'll be sure to be wary.Originally Posted by Enyalios
Someone has removed 100 crafted IOs from the market at the same predictable three digit ending to the price. Either they have a lot of toons who need that 6th slot filled.....or they're hoarding. I find it hard to believe that its a ton of smaller players since the bids are almost always ending with same 3 digits. Kudos to them as they are going to make far more off the niche pvp once they finish the move and raise prices on the niche by scooping up the incoming recipes as well. I've made 5B total on the niche over the last two weeks but that'll be nothing compared to the profits they'll make mostly re-selling my IOs.
Out of curiosity, why not pick up the recipes yourself then craft and hit the bid? If I had thought I could pull 2bn a week out of that area, I would have, but it was one of my short-term experiments that I'll post about one of these days. -
Quote:I'll give you 5,000 mathematic proofs for it. No, 10,000!Originally Posted by Fulmens
3 billion inf. Level 10, crafted. Send me a tell in game if interested.
(I know everyone else is selling theirs for 2.5 billion. That's why they're sold out and I'm not.) -
Quote:Maybe, maybe not. But we have someone willing to test their assumptions. Let's see what Berserker comes up with. I'm already proud of him/her for the mature way they have handled everything from the get go.Originally Posted by Sharker Quint 1
No one will ever control anything in the market. Prices will do what they will. Have fun trying though.
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Quote:Exsccccccccelent!!! [twiddles thumbs]Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I'm going to use Yomo_Kimyata's definitions from here out.
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Quote:Or perchance, that is what I want you to believe, muahahahah!Originally Posted by Ironblade
pshaw! Where's the melodrama in that?
P.S. Imagine my surprise. The spelling checker in my browser is okay with the word pshaw.
Oh $$#, did I say that out loud?