Zyphoid
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Posts
2071 -
Joined
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Quote:Could yo post the list again, or PM it to me. There are things in the game currently that makes it hard for me to see how they view balance. I have had a hand in working on the balance of several LARPS and several Table Top games. Shoot, one system Fuzion (which stunk in most ways) Had a Rule of X which actually worked.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Probably not, but what I told you was an amalgamation of every balance consideration the devs have ever expressed to me when it came to accepting, modifying, or rejecting a suggestion. Collectively they do think about the game in roughly that way, albeit perhaps not in every single way all simultaneously.
But the summary of what I told EG is that the devs do not have a singular vision of "balance." What they have, for lack of a better way of explaining it, are "balance concerns." Many, many of them. And I once posted a list of about a dozen of them, and Castle actually publicly acknowledged that every single one of them came up regularly in internal discussions, plus he said there were many more that were not on that list.
There is not much left to say here. I don't think the scales are balanced between the melee ATs, but hey it is not my sand box. I can at least say that tanks not scrappers seem to be on the real bottom, but scrappers are no longer at the top either. I also think scrappers not being at the top makes some so happy that they are overlooking some issues that have been created in the adjusting and buffing of the other melee ATs. -
Quote:This is possible. It could eve be something cool like the rest of the CoT costumes we didn't get. That thought is too good to be true though.Originally Posted by Lothic
True enough. Then again it has been worked on by Dink for several months now and has gone through the unique process of being "virtually peer reviewed" by the playerbase already. It's always possible at any rate - costume items are just about the most "risk free" content the Devs can offer us all things considered.
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Quote:Once you get to EPPs the end problems go away. Between superior conditioning, and Physical perfection there are no end issues. If you REALLY want to close any end hole take Agility as your alpha and that is the final nail in the endurance coffin.Originally Posted by McNum
Yeah, the damage my Ninja Blade Stalker can do even at level 26 is just... amusing. I have caught myself thinking "That was a tough lieutenant." and then looking to see it was a boss. Elite Bosses are easy pickings, too, most of the time.
If there's one downside, it's the endurance cost. Since the old Placate, AS loop is out, there's no gap in end use, meaning the blue bar drains very, very fast. Something that will require a bit of power and slotting stunts to correct on my Nin/Nin. Should probably get a Miracle for Health and a Performance Shifter proc for Stamina. I was planning on taking some Leadership powers, but until I got the end use under control, they'll have to wait. -
Quote:Well, my week is ruined. If it is not staff, it will not be my favorite offering.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Staff Fighting isn't tomorrow.
Although, I would say that tomorrow's item is pretty much my favorite Paragon Market offering. -
Quote:Not trying to argue. I promise I am past that point here. Could you take each thing you underlined and explain your position on it? For me, not for EG. Because a lot of what he has listed I have found to be the case while playing the game.Originally Posted by Reppu
... And you make posts like this and I KNOW you're just arguing for the sake of arguing and bloating your post count. And also being badly misinformative. Underlined bits being the obvious sins. Some for being flatly wrong, some for being opinionated and pointless, and one or two being just hilarious.
Edit: And one being just hypocritical of your ENTIRE argument. -
Quote:This puts a lot of what has been bothering me in one place.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I disagree with the low-hanging fruit theory, because the changes to Stalkers were transformative. Truly, this was not a 'small tweak' to paraphrase Statesman. This was an overhaul. The hit and run playstyle is now all but a memory. Stalkers are now single target specialists.
Which is great. I actually think the changes to Stalkers are excellent. I do worry that they have pushed Blasters even farther behind. I also worry that Scrappers are superfluous.
I get what everyone says about them still being good. I don't quarrel with that. But when I look at the AT as a whole, I can't find any advantage they offer outside of taking Shield. That powerset leverages their higher self-damage buffing in a way that properly pulls them ahead of Brutes and Stalkers. But Shield isn't an AT.
It's like another thread going on in this forum about */Mental and the things it's capable of with Drain Psyche. The outlier does not define the AT. In far too many combinations now, Scrapper don't offer any advantage over Stalkers or Brutes. Brutes leverage AoE better, and Stalkers leverage Single target better. No one here has quarreled with that idea. Most of the objections are platitudes about Scrappers being "awesome". Yes, they are awesome. But that's almost beside the point. What I am asking is what do Scrappers offer that Stalkers and Brutes don't?
Both Stalkers and Brutes can be played just as fire and forget as Scrappers. The changes to Fury makes it a lot less variable. It's just there now. Easy to build, and easy to maintain. Yes, you don't start as strong as Scrappers, but it takes mere seconds to get back. As for Stalkers, they're just Scrappers now, but they have all their other advantages besides. And with newer sets retaining the AoEs, the single target specialists doesn't necessarily lose much in AoE. -
Quote:I wonder what sold more Beam Rifle or StJ. I would like to know the same in comparison to Staff Melee and BM.Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Only one defense set on the horizon. They're actually giving some attention to the other 11 Archetypes now.
Can't blame them for building what they know will sell. Needs to also be considered that some of those Melee sets can be converted for Blasters and Doms.
The game had 4 melee ATs and it really could use some new defensive sets for them. MM's are the only AT I would back if they said they are neglected. -
I would really love to know the answer to this also.
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Quote:I think this true not only for stalkers, but also for the impact they are going to have on the game as a whole. They really are a force to be considered now, and are no longer one trick ponies.Originally Posted by McNum
So, I think what I'm getting from all this is that this is still uncharted territory with both the Stalker changes and the ATIOs.
I have seen a lot more stalkers on teams over the past few weeks, and they have done well on holding their own. A friend of mine stated that they are less survivable, but soft cap +def is the same no matter the AT. -
Quote:Why?Originally Posted by Reiska
but I don't think it should be.
See I can live and respect Siolfir's answer because it was honest. Why don't you think it should be proliferated? Honestly, SR with Rebirth is better at granting positional, Nin is cool because of its bag of tricks and the awesome poses that go with the animations.
Concept, and theme are what I like best about it.
I would love to hear and actual good reason why it should not be proliferated.
A good reason for, is that they are proliferating everything else, why not that? If brutes can get regen and WP, which turns them into the energizer bunny of melee, why not give scrappers nin? I mean really, a brute with regen only has to worry about running our of enemies, nothing much else. -
Well, I guess at this point those of us who have something to say have said it. Let's just hope the Devs noticed.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Next, I am going to say this because I actually like you, get over it mate.
Funny, I was almost there last night. The post where I was accused of whining pulled me back in. For various reasons I am more emotional than usual and that post pushed all the wrong buttons.
I agree with you that any change to scrappers, other than power proliferation, is so low of a dev priority that it is not even on the totem pole. Shoot I would say it is low enough to feel the heat from the core of the earth.
Scrappers hit this near perfect spot of balance. They were that AT that was right out of the box, and still the first AT I suggest to new players. I do love them, they are no frills, and they do just what is advertised.
None of that changes that I would love for them to have something of their own, but it has become more and more clear that people just love the vanilla nature of the scrapper. Which is cool.
I do however think the next round of power proliferation is going to be very telling, and that may be the point where I begin to raise a stink again. Ice (melee and armor) are what I think we will see (and I will be happy with that), but they are swiftly running out of power sets to give Scrapers that don't cross into the realm of what they have claimed would be broken.
Meh, it is all just a big blur of frustration at this point any way. For most of this thread some very reasonable posters have been baiting each other into arguments we never would have had on any other given topic. Take a look a the lack of the usual suspects in this thread, and it is a bit shocking.
As I said before, time will tell. If the devs do see a mass abandonment of the scrapper AT, then they may (or may not) step in and do something. -
Quote:This is me right here. There is nothing in the store currently that I want, and I am chomping at the bit to play staff fighting again. With beta server being closed I can't even get in there to get my fix.Originally Posted by BrandX
I hope so!
I SOOOOO HOPE SO!
I haven't used points in FOREVER! They need to make me use my points! Don't they want to see me buying boosters for my Staff Fighter's IOs?! And all those other goodies I'll totally buy while leveling up and then going through incarnate content!
There is nothing else in the works that would even tempt me. I think I may be done buying things I will never use. Things like animal transformation powers. -
Quote:Yeah, they are pretty much all apples. I just had a guy on a trial tell me scrappers were just not good for min/max players. That was a first, and not true imo.Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Right an option different from the other apples. My point is they all have a different point of emphasis within the melee class and all play differently.
I have tried to be pretty clear that I think they are all even at this point, and that I just want something unique for scrappers.
No, I don't have end issues with any of my scrappers, but the end buff seemed like the lease breaking thing I could think of at the time. Really, I am not sure what could be given to scrappers that would not just be a buff. :/
I am not going to quit playing scrappers by any means, and I still wish they had their own unique mechanic. -
Quote:That is one of the things that has been bothering me for a bit, and why I just took a MA/SR to 50 as an experiment. You no longer need to play a stalker with the hide and strike approach. It is an option, and a tool, but not required like it once was. Shoot I didn't ven take placate till lvl 49 on it.Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
If someone drops playing scrappers for a stalker, that just says they prefer the hide and strike approach over just flipping out and killing things straight up.
I noted on the stalker boards that I think there will be a clash between the old way of playing stalkers, and the new way. Time will tell I guess.
For me which of the three I pick will end up boiling down to concept from this point forward. My Staff/EA toon is a priest, a Shepherd to Humanity. So stalker and AS, don't fit, and Furry doesn't quite fit (but I have an idea of how it may), so scrapper is the most likely. -
If you look through a few pages you will find an argument were several of us believe that it is one of the best scrapper sets. Like all +def sets it blooms late though.
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Quote:This. Of the three cool things offered in nin, the one I was able to fit in was blinding powder. I love the idea of the power, but found that in later levels it just didn't work well.Originally Posted by Microcosm
Dont waste the power pick, just get the temp power that is almost identical.
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Quote:This is anecdotal evidence at best, but I have seen less and less scrappers since i22. I am in a bit of the same boat. Every time I have gone to make a new character since i22, it has been a brute or stalker.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Done. I've tried to create a few Scrappers recently, but found myself rerolling them. Any of the newer sets where the AoE is retained is usually better on a Stalker IMO because you get better ST and decent AoE. And if I want an AoE death machine, Brutes are better because of the better aggro control.
Shield is the sole remaining set that unequivocally favors Scrappers and I already have one of those.
But then, I think the popularity of an AT is irrelevant. Blasters are very popular, but by any account they need a buff substantially more than Stalkers ever have.
Stalkers with the right build play no different than scrappers with the same sets, and in some cases better. I hate MA on scrappers, but love it on stalkers. I find Ninja Blade just as boring as Katana however, same with claws. I have a Claws/WP Stalker on Tri that I am considering moving to Virtue to level up.
Not to mention the Brute and Stalker ATIO procs seem to have a far better function.
I am waiting to see how it goes when Staff Melee is released. Is it just that stalkers got buffed and are the new shinny, or are they really performing that much better now? -
Quote:My builds rarely have room for any of the above. Scrapper, Brute, and Stalker builds tend to be really tight, tanks may be too but I don't play those. Shoot, I have come to love IO enhancers because it lets me pull a 3rd slot from hasten. Every time I take Boxing to get to tough and weave it makes me grind my teeth.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Even if confront were good for nothing more than hovertanking it would be valuable to someone who ran a lot of STFs. As it happens that isn't at all the only thing it's good for. Regardless, I have a hard time imagining a build where every single slot is so perfectly placed that taking confront would be inconceivable. If you have room for vengeance, you have room for confront. If you have room for resuscitate, you have room for confront. More controversially, I would say that if you have room for a travel power you have room for confront. I don't know about you but I frequently have enough leeway to grab such powers. Perhaps I'm a poor build designer.
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I think Confront is at worst a joke and left there so we have something to feel ok about skipping, and at best as a set mule.
It didn't even pull runners back to me the one time I tried it. -
I didn't feel I was whining, but hey it is what it is. It is hard to argue with someone when they are admitting something like you did when you said you knew it was spiteful. I actually respect that.
I do think stalkers should have gotten shield and TW. I think eventually they will too.
They are sharing the powers from Melee ATs left and right, and I just think they need to get it done and over with. Share them all and be done with it.
As for scrappers, they are fine. I know they are fine, I have said that all through the thread. Everyone wants something to call their own though. -
Quote:I was really close to skipping it on my MA/SR. I took it at 49, and think I may have used it once. I almost wish I had taken Assault instead, but it just seemed so wrong to skip it all together.Originally Posted by BrandX
Really the only increase to durability/survival was killing enemies quicker (new AS) and for some sets an increase in HP, but one wouldn't really notice that untill late game I would think.
I wish I felt like I could skip Placate, but it just seems so wrong to skip it!
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Here is what I ended up with when I hit 50 last night. Pretty fun. I may set up a bind that shouts "Dim-mak!" every time I use AS outside of hide. Some of the MA animations still annoy me, but it is what it is. The real reason I made it was because I wanted to see how much different it played from a scrapper after the changes. The answer was very little, I think I actually like MA better on Stalkers than on Scrappers, but SR better on Brutes than either.
The important thing is that it was very fun to play from 1-50, and now that I can play it blue side the AT will get much more attention from me as a player.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Zyphx MA: Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Thunder Kick -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(7), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(9), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), T'Death-Dam%(11)
Level 1: Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(13)
Level 2: Storm Kick -- SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg(A), SStalkersG-Dmg/Rchg(3), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SStalkersG-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SStalkersG-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SStalkersG-Rchg/Hide%(7)
Level 4: Crippling Axe Kick -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Dam%(19)
Level 6: Assassin's Blow -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Mako-Dam%(46)
Level 8: Focused Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29)
Level 10: Agile -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 12: Focused Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 14: Focus Chi -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(34), GSFC-Build%(34)
Level 16: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 20: Dodge -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36)
Level 22: Cobra Strike -- T'Death-Dam%(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(37), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(37), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(39)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(39)
Level 26: Crane Kick -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(40), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), T'Death-Dam%(48)
Level 28: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 32: Eagles Claw -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg(42), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 35: Superior Conditioning -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(43), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(45)
Level 38: Evasion -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(46)
Level 44: Weave -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A), Ksmt-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def(48)
Level 49: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(21)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(19), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Assassination
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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I think it depends on play style. I stuck mine in Gamblers Cut, and it seems to proc a lot. in AS it is 100%, but then I have to wait for AS to recharge, and that is just not how I wanted to play the character.
I think stalkers are going to run into an old style of play, and a new style of play because of the buffs. I just played a MA/SR from 1-50 in under a week, and really did some serious face to face fighting with it. It was nothing like I would have played a stalker before i22. -
Last November I got really sick and never got well. Found out I have cancer, and now this is pretty much my only hobby, this and reading any way. Before I would drop spare cash on Kickboxing equipment, or other training devices.
Well, now my spare cash goes into CoX. So I would say since Freedom went live around $400 or so not including my yearly sub cost.
Note: Super packs put a HUGE dent in my stock pile of points. So I would say they were a good idea on Paragon's part. When the next round of super packs hit I hope to drop another $100 on those also.