_DTS_

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The difference is that knockback is handled on the server, and has nothing to do with physics. This becomes clear when knockback sends a critter up through the ceiling or off the map entirely. It is my impression that the ragdoll portion of the knockback is calculated on the client, while the knockback itself is determined on the server. I could be wrong in that.

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Knockback is controled by the server, cause we had knock** effects long before they added PhysX into the game


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A. They might need to change the network protocol to handle a different kind of update. This isn't an absolute. They might be able to shoehorn in updates similar to how knockback works, or even use the same kind of packets that knockback uses.

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Well since the server handles knock**, I dont think there would need to be a change how packets work.

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B. They probably need to come up with a new/special mob type. The game has some fairly concrete definitions of what a mob is. Some of them are targetable, and others aren't. IIRC, only targetable mobs are able to interact with a player character, but if it's targetable, is it attackable? The game flags might already be able to handle this case, but I can't think of an example right off hand were we can see that it does.

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I dont think we need a new mob type, the COV mayhem civilians seems to work perfectly. They have 5hp, cant be killed, but can be knocked, and pushed arround.

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C. The physics calculations need to be moved from the client to the server. This one has a couple sub-problems with it.

C.1. First of all, physics calculations use up a lot of computing power. The math involved with a 3D vector and a single collision detection aren't all that bad, but the sheer number of vector calculations and collision detections needed per second to make a sphere bouncing in an irregular environment grow exponentially. The load on the server would increase dramatically, even if it's only handling one instance of the ball at a time (i.e. zone maps only). Server lag is already noticeable during a Hami raid or a seasonal event. Whether that lag is a network bandwidth limitation or a processing limitation, handling something like the ball could have a noticeable negative impact on both.

C.2. The current scheme with calculations on the client, partially for the reasons listed above, allows use of a 3rd party add-on card. This helps with the performance of calculations on the one client, but moving the calculations to the server would deprecate the usefulness of the PhysX card. Not only would users be unhappy that an extra purchase of theirs no longer improves their performance, Ageia would likely not appreciate what would probably be a breach of contract.

I personally have nothing against a Big Red Ball in the game, but it appears to me that the structure of the game is heavily stacked against being able to pull it off in a practical way.

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I cant ever see Cryptic ever changing physx to server side, but I believe that is where the "line" is drawn almost.

Here is my believe/example on how the systems work with a BRB:

W/O PhysX
Toon hits BRB with energy torrent, the ball is knocked up and back. When the BRB hits the ground, it will sit there. If it hits a wall, it will drop to the ground where the wall meets the ground. This should work within current limitations, cause it is possible with any mob in game as it stands now.

W/ PhysX
Toon hits BRB with energy torrent, the ball is knocked up and back. Now when the ball hits the ground, it wouldnt stop right away, it would continue to bounce until it ran out of inertia. If it hit a wall, it would bounce off the wall and go in another direction or come back at you, depending on the angle.

So if my opinion is correct on how the systems work, the only thing possible at this level, would be the 1st example.

I *LOVE* the idea of the BRB, but I guess what it comes down to is what level of the BRB do we want? If we want something that will act like a normal ball, we may be in for a long wait, if we want a BRB that acts just like a normal mob in a mayhem mission, then that should be 100% possible.

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It is stated here in this thread. It's just buried amongst all the "But I REALLY want it!" posts.

In short, the reason is the same reason why propel doesn't show the same thing for everyone. Also, it's the same reason why a Physics card is an option.

The thing is that the physics calculations are done on the client, and not the server. With the calculations performed on different machines, and no mechanism to synchronize them in the current protocol, any differences in the environment (like the ones caused by differing network latencies) would cause different results, and the ball would be in a different place for different people.

In short, the network protocol, server, and client are not structured to handle putting the ball in the same place for everybody.

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See that is what I dont understand 100%. Maybe its the scope of the effect that I dont grasp, but heres what I dont get.

I have a claw scrapper, and most of there powers have a knock** effect and I even have body mastery Epic so I have Energy Torrent as well.

When I use those attacks on a mob, they are knocked around and scattered, but yet anyone else on the team can still attack them cause they can see where they went.

Now does this mean that the inital knock** attack would be correct since we had knock** effect before physX (thus the location would be correct), but then the bounces afterwards would be somewhat "random" cause that is using the PhysX on the client side?

If you wanted to simplify the BRB then you could just have it work like a mob (without rolling around or bouncing around after the inital knock**), but I think that would take out alot of the fun. That way it would be just like a mob before PhysX was coded in.

Kinda like the old days where people would take force punch and 6 slot it with knockback and "punt" hellions in Atlas around.

(QR)

Im curious on a few things. I was deep into this several months ago and I remember that a redname posted in here saying that it cant be done.

What I dont understand is "Why" cant it be done? Did we ever get a technical reason why the Big Red Ball wont work?

My understanding of the BRB, was to have it look like a Soild Red forcefield and have that forcefield about the size that would apply to the tallest Huge Male frame. Basicly think of the COH respec reactor red force field, but a solid red, rather then see-through.

Then make it so you cant kill it, much like the civilians in the COV mayhem missions. They can still be effected by knockback, but not much else.

The only downside is that powers that have no "knockback/knockup/knockup, wouldnt have any effect. This could be "corrected" by having a power that has a knock** effect, but then this power would have to have no effect on normal mobs and I dont know if this is possible.

So with those taken into account the only other factor would be Physx effect? Would the BRB act the same on player #1 computer as it does on Player #2 computer? Is that the technical issue that would be an issue?

Im looking at over 500 posts in this topic alone, so going through it all might be a bit much.

I guess the bottom line is:

Is makeing the BRB ball possible or is the cost and animation too much to add in a limited feature?

I was wondering if someone can help with with a project that I have been planning for a while.

I need 2 pieces of artwork modified for a COX fan-site that im working, but I dont want to go into great detail since I havent set up the site or the host name.

I not good at picture editing, but I would assume that this would be an easier job then makeing something from scratch.

If your interested, please contact me via PM or my email at ELRODVOSS@AOL.COM

Thanks in advance for your help.

Hell I love having 2 ranged knockback plus energy torrent from my Epic on my Claw/regen. It provides excellent mob control.

Now as for Stalkers, I can see both sides of the arguement, but I would still perfer Shockwave as a mob control function. Ive seen too many stalkers run due the hit and run thinking there A.S. is there only attack so they can re hide.

I guess it comes down to what you perfer.

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Oh - and I'd love to do a giant mech game. Love it.

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Well since Microsoft Media has the rights to Battletech for the electronic gaming angle (Xbox, PC, etc), see if you can bring back a great series..

I just find it...amusing? No isnt the word....oh.ya...STUPID, when they bunch in Statesman/COH with a game like Postal 2.

I personaly have played both games and "Postal 2" was made to piss off people like Jack Thompson. About the only thing that game dosent have is "hot coffee".

I mean come on. How do you compare a game with no blood, sex, gore to a game where you can put a cat at the end of your shotgun for a silencer.

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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.

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Personaly, I would be throwing this over to the lawers and start yelling libal or something.

Hell, using there standard, the "christan" game of Down Below, would fall under in there cause it involves "killing".

Anywho, I jumped back into game and I did kinda notice something.

The -perc effect is shown by the smoke on the mob, but you have to either have good eyes or get close to see if you get the -acc effect, shown by the circleing crosshairs.

So I guess I have to go back to my 2ACC/3AccDebuff plan.

Just wish I knew what the "%" the debuff was. I mean if the difference between 1 AccDebuff and 3 AccDebuff (with SOs) is only like 5-10%, then im not sure its worth it.

YES I found something!!!

YAY!!!!!

(Gets off the stage to perserve my 15 mins of fame)

I understand that, but to my knowledge I have never seen a miss appear above any of the targets or the AOE targets head.

As an example, in the lower levels I have used Web grenade alot and I can tell when I missed and it was alot. There is no reason why the 2 powers would have a different base acc.

With Smoke Grenade, im effecting 2-3 times more targets and I havent seen a thing yet.

But like I said, you test and see if you get the same results. It could be something wtih I8 (this is a new I8 toon).

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Unless it was changed in the recent patch and not posted in the notes, Smoke Grenade is still working as normal. It's not the visual smoke that tells you missed or not, it's the MISS! that appears over their head. Lob some smoke grenades at some +2-+3, and you'll see it, I would run the test myself, but I'm at work at the moment. When I get home, I'll do it, but I don't expect anything different.

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See if you get your normal results. I cant fight +2/+3 yet (only 17) but I do see Oranges at my current diff level.

Sadly it dont show hits or misses in the combat log so I cant use that to see if ive missed, and I havent seen any "missed" above the target when it hits. I have time to check cause I hit with smoke then Snipe, so its something I have a few seconds to watch for.

I have sent a PM to _Castle_ on the topic to clarify the matter. Personaly the smoke effect shouldnt appear on the mob unless they were effected by the power, so I guess we will see if that is "working as intended" or if it is a graphical bug.

Then the Mob visual effect must be bugged...cause I have yet to see the smoke not show on anyone that has been hit or anyone in the AOE range.

I dont have any ACC in it right now and I seem to be hitting Oranges with no misses.

Maybe its something that _Castle_ needs to look into?

I dug around in the postings for the past year and I couldnt find anything hard on this power so I wanted to ask.

I am playing a AR/Device Blaster and I just got Smoke Grenade. While it takes ACC enhancements, I have noticed that it "seems" to auto hit or has a high base to hit in PVE.

Is the ACC enhancement only for PVP purposes and its Auto-Hit in PVE?

Or

Does the smoke effect on the mobs show regardless if it effects them or not (bug)?

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Somebody posted some pics of that area. It seems they had found a way inside, and explored. It was really cool, with a dam and a river, as well as a very cool dam-support-structure thingy.

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I MIGHT still have my demorecord of that zone. It dont have any spawns. but its has all the buildings and what not.

Ill have to dig around.

Only sad thing is I cant be on the show till later on, if at all.

Darn, PR rules..

:-)

Guess ill have to bow out of this show this week.

This is a good example of how a bad guys is not really bad, per say.

Not all people in COV are "villains". There not all cut throat killers and kidnappers. Some are the "robin hoods" of the world.

Maybe some had good intentions and over time they got darker and darker. Perfect example is Batman and Spiderman when they start to question if what they are doing is any good or does it really matter. This is not them crossing over to the dark side, but it does show a crossroad that some have crossed.

Does a vampire, a creature that had to feed on the living, have to be evil? Is there no such thing as redemption? Cant a Hero fall from the light.

I find it interesting the background behind some of these "avs"

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With the PhysX card, you can throw a WHOLE lot more garbage....hust got to go in and turn the slider up. You probably don't want to see what THAT would do though

Without the PhysX card, the slider maxes at 400 or somethiing....WITH it..........a LOT higher number pops up (no, I don't know the number, as I don't have the card (My wife says NO card for you! )

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Actualy they patched is last week that will allow the slider to go up to 50K patricle effects and you can increase the particle quality to very high.

What the card does do, is it will offload some of the strain from CPU. Plus you will get "finer" effects.

Like in mayhem missions you will see more individual parts. Example when a car blows up with the card, you will see more individual parts of the car vs w/o the card.

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Let me be the first to say:



* Tries to think of all the /kin corruptors she knows on Infinity... *

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Im a 30 Kin Corr on Infinity

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Ok... I just got finished with the "Kidnap Vanessa Verandi" mission in the mission there was a temp pet called "PITBULL" from the family.. hes every thing a bruiser should be!!!!
Great defense (um damage resistance, forget defense=dodge in this game) the Super Strength powers but most of all.. The SHOTGUN!!!! The long range cone was soooo nice... and the way his AI was set IS THE BEST for a pet I'v seen for a pet.
the way he set up to a group of mobs pull out the shot gun and blast them, but once they scattered he’d charge in and take out the stragglers with his SS powers while the rest of the team handled the main group and if someone was in trouble he'd come to their aid (or maybe he just happened to choose the right mob to attack, not sure)….

all I ask is you give the bruiser a shotgun ( haven’t made it to the lv to get one so im not sure if he already does, but in the RV event on test I made a lv 40 thug MM but don’t remember if I seen him pull out a shotgun.) With the same spec and the same AI you gave the "Pitbull" pet

yea i know i got the same post in another thred but im not shure if the devs only read through this one or not

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I have to say that I love Pit Bull as well. I don't understand why the Bruiser can't work as well as he can.

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Well, the shotgun would be a nice touch. Since none of the other pets have that option. I mean nothing else is nasty then hearing that "cahink" sound of the shotgun being c*cked (filter). I can see a big bad brusier using that.

As for the final upgrade, if I remember correctly these powers have a disorent and AOE effect. If they have a knockdown, thats great. Knockback can hurt though.

The only thing I dont understand is added 2 attacks shouldnt delay any more attacks. Usualy the 3rd tier pet, will have moments of just standing there cause a power is waiting to cycle.

With the full upgrades, he should never have a time where he just stands there.

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This has been said a few times before me and I would hope a few times after me...

Simply make the buffs stronger and don't let them stack. Problem solved.

Now, if there was a way to make the buffs last longer than 15 minutes...

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I always though they should have the 3 tiers and the same powers in each, but just up the duration in each.

or

Keep them as they are, but each power that is duplicated on the next tier has a longer duration or better buff. Example:
Tier 1 Run Speed: 15 Mins at 10% increase.
Tier 2 Run Speed: 30 Mins at 10% or 15 mins at 25%
Tier 3 Run Speed: 60 Mins at 10% or 30 Mins at 25% or 60 Mins at 10%

Now for the new power that show up in the 2nd tier, they start at the lowest LVL. Example:
Tier 2 Psi Protection: 5% Protection for 15 mins
Tier 3 Psi Protection: 10% Protection for 15mins or 5% for 30 mins.

Give it the same "stats" as the Civies in the Mayhem missions.

5HP, cant be killed, takes full effects from powers.

Only thing you have to change is:
Size, Color, AI(none).

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That would make sense (from a programmer's perspective, albeit one with no insight into the specific code here) to me. If I were given the task of implementing the BRB, I would:

1) Make it a mob. Give it no attacks, and a zero movement rate. I don't know if it'd be possible to code it to follow the ragdoll physics (i.e. roll down hills) if it ain't dead, but if it's possible, do that.
2) Make it spawn via the Giant Monster rules. I say this because GMs already seem to spawn, for the most part, on a one-per-zone basis... although I've seen reports of two Luscas in IP before. Possibly via the *triggered* GM rules (i.e. have something in-zone to trigger it, somewhat like Caleb is a triggered GM spawn).
3) Make it immune to hold/sleep/immob/confuse/fear/etc.. everything but Knock* effects.
4) Give it Hamidon-level HP and resists, but no regen or healing capabilities (as if it was affected by MoG's anti-healing effect). Yes, this means it'd be possible to pop the BRB if you play with it too roughly.
Kam

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I agree with this all but 4th (poping it). Make it like Ghost of ScrapYard that will despawn after time.

But as an example, if you have played mayhem missions you know how the people cant be killed. Give the ball the same "stats" as these people.

Make it as big as a tanker is, make it round, and make it red.

Drop its knockback protection to nothing.

The only "argument" would be that not every power has a knockback factor in it. Give a temp power that is only knockback, but then that can be used in combat.

I mean you cant make it where you can play soccer, but i think people just want to have a red ball to knock around in zone.

Like in Steel....you have 2 teams. 1 team defends the South warwall, the other defends the North warwall. See if you can knock the ball against the warwalls.

Simple game and more of a time killer.

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I'm all for this, it'd be pretty badazz (yes, badazz, a new word for the big red ball) to see this giant red ball flying thru the sky when 8 NRG blasters hit it with their high knockback power.

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Actualy Id be more interested in seeing 8 blasters all hitting it with "snipe" at once.

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I got my LT tonight on my thugs MM. I was told by several people that the LT was supposed to carry some kind of Leadership pool power. I have my first buff for the pets, and after buffing them there was no leadership pool added to my LT. Dont know if this is a bug. If I am repeating someones post already I apologize. Just want to let the Devs know the buggs that I am finding.

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The Enforcer (2nd Tier Pet) has Leadership->Defence and after his 1st Upgrade gets Leadership->Tactits.

Sadly it does not spill over to your toon, but will spill over to other Thug Henchmen (unknown if it spills over to other Toons Henchmen).

I can say that having a 4 Toon Thug team, you dont miss a whole lot with all that stacked.