Afulia

Actually i understand both point of views, and i've been asked a lot of times to send my henchies in to take the alpha strike ( having ninja it's known that if they do get hit...it's usually a 1 shot kill ). Now, i'm quite attached to my henchies so i get quite annoyed by this, but if i realise the group of npcs we're about to attack is dangerous for the group i have no trouble sacrificing the henchies for them. Note : if the group you are about to attack is really really dangerous, tell your group to pull, because once your pets are dead and if they don't act quick you'll get killed as well ( unless you stay invisible or in pff while sending your henchies ). So this kinda of thing with send henchies first is a bit situational - i'm not gonna send my pets to get killed after i spent 4 minutes buffing them just because the corruptor in group is too lazy to pull.

To be honest i don't think any sets are going to be nerfed for MMs.

Each secondary set requires different tactics : with pff you'll just go head on and hope a blapper doesn't come along, with dark you can go head on as well, but with poison and trick arrow you need to stay a bit out of sight, be a bit more covert in your actions ( this is just my view on things ). Going head on doesn't mean you are better, it just means you plan ahead less.

On a sidenote, a lot of MM's complain about not being good in pvp, but they're only experience with pvp was something like : okay, i'm going to warburg....after spending 5 min to get pets up : i'm gonna go own everyone, next few minutes he wonders around the map with the pets lagging hundred of yards behind him and he meets a blaster....after click spamming the pets attack button with no use ( pets are way behing ), he get killed....after they go out the hospital : Bah, i'm awesome at PVP, it's just this AT that sucks.

Either that or some normal players might be : wait 4 minutes to spawn and buff pets, you go out trying to hunt something, but a clever enemy spotted you before you did him, and takes you out quick before you can fully deploy your pets on him, after that back to hosp summoning pets again and buffing them, you go out trying to pay attention to everything around you - you aren't gonna let yourself die easy again, but this time the blaster has a friend with him and they manage to kill you, back to hospital - bah i'm not gonna bother with pets..it's too boring to have to wait longer to buff pets than i actuall stay alive.

This is something i share with all MM's, i dred getting killed, because i know i then have 4 or 5 minutes of waiting and buffing pets before i can go get revenge.


Something worth noting though : a lot of MMs say : ahh force fields are the best for pvp, but i saw a ninja/trick arrow MM doing just find in pvp and being quite a threat. Depending on your playstyle, all powersets are quite effective ( except bots, mercs and zombies ).

MM's are awesome in pvp, but you sometimes need a team - like a lot of other AT's. A MM in duels shouldn't lose ( of course it all depends on players ), and in a fight with multiple foes you have to manage your pets to scare away or buy time for you to get out of there. Blaster will always run if your pets start attacking them, and besides them...i don't think any AT was ever meant to take a beating from 5 scrappers and survive.

In pvp *most of the time* first people that get attacked are the high priority targets, not the useless ones ( as you suggest MMs ), so then i wonder why does every MM get ganked on sight ?

Also MM's aren't really supposed to go to battle face to face, we're supposed to be sneaky and plan ahead - how's planning ahead if you go out there in the open if you have no defense ? Use the terrain, hide your pets, stay invis where you can have a good view of the battle ground, pick strategic targets and eliminate them - that's how MM's are supposed to be played IMO.

Of course i could be wrong, and we MM's should just 1-2 shot anything, and we should have more health and dmg res than a tank, and 20 pets( 10 of them spamming holds of course, and the other 10 preparing their AS ) - Bah i like this ideea

Sure thing BrainDamage, i'll send you a tell when i see you online.

Also an edit to the above post :

The all pets duels were made with interference from MMs.

Well i finally made a duel with a bots MM and a mercs MM.

with bots:

Oni vs assault - oni won by far
jounin vs protector - jounin won by far
genin vs battle drones - drones won by was pretty close

with mercs:

oni vs commando - oni won, was pretty close, and when commando had serum it was almost a draw but still oni won
jounin vs spec ops - jounin didn't even get hit
genin vs soldiers - soldiers won, and they fared better than bots.

all ninja vs all bots - ninja won - was a close one
all ninja vs all mercs - ninja won by far

These were done without any interference from the MMs, with bots we had to use supremacy since the other MM didn't have FF, but with mercs the pets were completely by themselves.

Now, truth be told i might be a bit worried about a zombie - ninja duel, since the zombies debuffs are pretty good, still i have confidence in my Oni

Ninjas are simply the best. You don't even need to train them to solo relentless missions

What? I'm biased

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I wasn't basing my guess on what would help, only what the devs might think would help.

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Bah you are right

Now i have a reason to get off from work early today, i'm misreading forum posts

I think ninjas might be fast enough to keep up with you. Not sure though.

And for team teleport : it does work, even if the henchies appear to fall, they'll still get ported

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A) Base hp increase for the MM

or

B) A change to the MM inate (I forget the name) so that the buff it gives to the pets increases as the MM takes damage.


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I don't think this would help us that much.

1. More health won't keep us alive when we are being hunted. Instead of 2 shots it'll take 3
2. Once we start taking damage, there's very little chance to escape - so even if our pets would start doing a lot more damage, the chance of this saving us is very slim.

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As someone who doesn't play a single MM and doesn't much like teaming with them, I think they seriously need some help in PvP zones, and would have been a bit upset if they'd not received any, honestly.

Right now, they're just easy targets (ignore the pets, kill the MM), or enemies I ignore outright (like if they're in PFF, or have invis... although PFF can sometimes be detoggled with a high-acc detoggling attack, like Force Bolt). The pets are pretty easy to get away from, and don't really do enough burst damage to be scary. I'm reaqlly glad they're being looked at, because it'd be great to see more MMs back in PvP... I've seen less and less of them lately.

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Well we don't get the damage blasters have, but we're not really supposed to, but to be honest i think the lvl 32 upgrade is really good in pvp ( sure it takes a lot of time and really annoys you ). Yeah you can get away from pets easy, but that's if the MM is just standing there doing nothing to aid his pets.

We're not great in pvp, just OK. Also MM's really shine in pvp when they are in a team ( the annoyance factor of the pets is greater than any hold ).

The only thing i'd welcome is the ability to buff pets quicker in pvp, thus when a MM dies the team doesn't have to wait 5 minutes for him to get back into the fight.

I think MM's are already good in pvp, if they make us even better then every other AT's will start complaining ( though they shouldn't want to inccur the wrath of Lord Recluse )

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PFF stops you from using any powers that dont affect yourself, ie summoning/upgrading/buffing pets. +1/+2 lieutenants laugh at dispersion bubble. Leadership pool powers have stupidly long animation times so you tend to be dead by the time you've put one on. Plus any toggles you have running are sapping endurance that you need to summon all your pets at high levels.

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PFF will make you unable to summon pets, but you won't die when you enter a mission ( you can just run around in pff until you find a safe spot ).

Uhh, I mean exploiting a weakness isn't a bad thing.

Anyway we're going way off topic here.

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Cheap as hiding by NPCs might be, it's no more cheap than SJing to the top of a building to escape an SSer, or mezzing someone and then running.

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This is exploiting a weakness.

Force field : Enter mission, if you get attacked by 2 npcs use detention field on one and force bolt on the other one, then quick summon some pets to take care of them. Or.. just enter with pff ? :P

Dark : you get stealth.

Trick arrow : flash arrow, mass hold arrow ?

Traps : caltrops and the mobs will scatter while you summon the pets

Poison : debuff them quick so they can't kill you while you summon pets ?

Also if you don't have /ff or /dark i think you'll need the concealment pool anyway.

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The point is you are still fighting the player. It still surprise's me how many player's wish pvp to become a battle of statisics and slotting. Don't run. Don't hide. Don't use that Warden to heal you. Don't use that Blue Ink Man to debuff your enemy.

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How am i fighting the player when he gets backup from npcs ? isn't that fighting the player and a boss npc ?

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in that if a player positions him or herself by a Warden you'll probably charge in knowing you can't get debt.

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That's the ideea, players to stop using npcs as cover. I come to sirens to fight players not overpowered wardens that give leadership buffs, heal or debuff me.

No debt/xp is ok.
Mobs aiding one side, i don't like that ( if i want pve i'll go do missions, not come to sirens ). It could work in some way though.
And 3rd ideea is ok, sort of

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you dont tp the pets you tp the MM straight away.But for the record flying around blaster */dev simply one shot the MM's one by one

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Yeah i misread that, still why do you have the impression that the MMs will just sit there waiting to get killed ? We are already in a mass of buffs + stealth, with multiple leadership powers stacking ( so there's no way you can be invis from us ), with tp foe charged and waiting. And for the tank...2 bubblers means 2 detention fields, so we can perma lock him.

And to be hones */dev blasters never were a problem for my MM unless i wanted to just test their 20 trip mines. */energy blasters on the other hand pose a threat, but that's why we have the multitude of debuffs and slows + immobs, holds

Ahh and for the one shot MM, how's that efficient? You need full defiance for that, that also means any stray shot will kill you, and that's 30 stray shots you need to be wary of

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1 stone tanker with 6 slotted tp and 2 */dev blasters. Tp the MM's one by one and kill them and watch the pets drop even worse just one shot them with the flying blasters

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Well i'm thinking of a fair fight, not sitting in base, and if you were thinking the same then why wouldn't the MMs tp foe the tanker and blasters ? Besides tp-ing 30 pets and killing them would take too long and it would give enough time for the MMs to just resummon them

1. ninja/ff - dispersion bubble + force bubble + repulsion bomb
2. ninja/dark
3. ninja/trick arrow
4. ninja/poison
5. ninja/ff - same as first ( dispersion bubble stacks so increased mez prot )

what i want to see is how anyone is gonna get past 30 ninja pets that can stun,slow,immob,placate ( with criticals ), hold and kb ( at lvl 32 ) while they are being debuffed by poison, repeled by force bubble, slowed and debuffed by trick arrow and debuffed - slowed - held by dark just to get to a team that's protected by 2 sets of shields and are in stealth ( from dark )

I think for pvp corruptors and defenders should get a "dispel debuffs" power. But not make it very powerful maybe it should be able to dispel just 1 debuff at a time ( with a recharge of 15-20 sec? ). Also a "dispel buffs" would be nice ( not sure if it should affect inspirations ) but i'm guessing this would add a lot to tactics in pvp - the newly buffed scrapper comes out on a killing spree when he finds out his buffs are missing in action :P

My TP got supressed in sirens last night and i was up against 3 trollers ( wasn't held ). Had lots of debuffs and all sorts of thingies on me : sets were : earth/storm x2 + rad/emp.

Also i don't think there's any way to block the rad debuffs or remove them off of you ( maybe toggle drop ? but you wouldn't be able to do that with the debuffs on you :P )

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Robo/dark for damage, necro/dark for survivability, the rest only if you like the consept.

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I fail to see how necro/dark is for survivability when you can have force field

My MM is ninja/ff and after i played it for a while i wanted to see how the other sets are, and tbh i was completely disappointed in how other pets fare compared to ninja. So i'd say ninja with either dark, ff or if you like concept : trick arrow or poison. On a side note if you take a secondary that doesn't have a heal you should take the medicine power pool.

Wow great...now everyone can be a wannabe mastermind.