-
Posts
8326 -
Joined
-
The breakdown screen makes me wonder if there won't be ways to get uncommon components as drops. Right now, you can only craft them from common components and shards. Breaking them down would be a loss of 1-2 shards. I suppose that could be handy if you've created an uncommon component you decide you will never actually use, but otherwise I can't see ever making use of that particular breakdown.
I should go look and see if there's a breakdown option for common components.
Edit: The same logic applies to the Favor of the Well, which currently has to be crafted from Notices (which do drop). -
Quote:I don't disagree with any of that, but I do think a more useful and/or correct thing to conclude is that "seller's don't act alone to set the price" or "sellers influence the price, not set it alone".I see his/her experiment as a way of saying "My observation is that people don't bid creep". And they generally don't. Sellers who post high are not a problem -- you just don't buy from them. But if you are paying more for something than its list price, it's pretty much your own fault.
Sellers and buyers do a sort of dance around each other, using the last 5 history as their feedback of what other sales have done. If a bidder bids too low or a seller lists too high compared to the recent sales history, they're effectively not going to get a dance partner. -
Quote:Yes, there would be. It's called supply vs. demand. If the item is extremely rare and yet extremely desirable, making people sell it for like 200M means that everyone with 200M will try to buy one, but there's no way that everyone with 200M will get one.If people just want to make inf for no reason, thats on them, but if items were more affordable for everyone, theyd be no reason to sell off market.
This is exactly the situation we have with the PvP +defense unique, except the cap is 2B inf. More people have 2B inf and want that proc than there are procs available. You can put up a 2B bid and wait weeks without getting one. I know this, because I did it.
Putting items in a store is not a price cap. Putting items in a fixed price store doesn't just set their price, it increases their supply. I understand you also do want supply of some things to increase, but that's adds a completely different dimension to the discussion - power creep across the broader player base. -
Quote:Flexibility. I do use purples and PvPOs in my builds, but even when the builds are done I tend to cart around 1-3B on each character, because then, if I want something for that character that money can buy, I can just plop down a big wad of money and have it.Not cheating, but im stupid i suppose. Really, answer this for me. Why, really, do you even want billions of dollars to just go buy Salvos, Tempests, Volley Fires, Adrenaline Adjustments, etc? Just to say, ooh, i some inf? I don't get it.
If I actually do something like that, I only do it because I intend to actually play the character some. (Either I want to experience the new shiny I just bought, or I wanted to play the character anyway and the new shiny is some QoL improvement.) That means I have a chance to earn back the bank roll I spent from that character. -
I couldn't imagine using Ice Blast without it. The AoE is just incredibly useful. Sure, it takes a bit more time than some other powers, but those other powers aren't in Ice Blast.
-
Quote:I still do not think suppression is desirable or that lack of it a big deal. Yes, those people were jacktards. Everyone who uses the market with their regular powers on does not need to have their powers detoggled because there are a few jacktards in the game. I'm not willing to suffer what I consider universal inconvenience at the market because there are a tiny minority of people who are rude enough to be intentional jackholes by taking advantage of the system.And just when you think that not having supression isn't that big a deal, you run into something like I did in Cap a while back. Two SS/ brutes (one with /FA) intentionally bothering people by auto-casting footstomp. And no, they weren't just doing it incidentally, they were standing outside click range of the market npcs. They were clearly not there to use the market, and were glad to make it clear to those who were.
It irks me that people even consider solutions of that sort - sweeping change to deal with minority behavior. -
Quote:It's not that I run around taking everything on the internet serious. It's that there are plenty of people who have said things like what you said there and meant it in true seriousness.Seriously? It's a joke apparently since you couldn't hear me speaking what was written you concluded that there was no humor involved.
Sorry I like to joke around and I would have thought people would have got that by the outlandish things I said and the smiley.
Wow some people...but then again it is the internet and srs biznezz only....
In any case, no need to apologize for my failure to grasp your humor.
-
Quote:That you conclude this about people who leave their powers on is outrageous.Thats ok though nobody likes them, they will never do well in life, their spouse will cheat on them because they are losers, and they are probably goin to die a horrible death and go to hell. It's a small comfort to know such things are destined for rude people.

-
Quote:Really? That's funny, they aren't screwing it up for me. I doesn't bother me one bit what people run in the market buildings. How terribly self-centered of them!It only takes one self-centered jerk like yourself to screw up WW/BM for everyone else there at the time.
If this is your threshold for ignore, I think no one should be terribly worried that you ignored them.Quote:There is a lot more I'd like to add here but I don't want to get banned from the forum. Please don't bother to reply. You are my first new ignore since the forums were reset.
Edit: I have absolutely no objection to the notions of quiet rooms or (extra) markets with suppression. I have zero interest in any suppression being universally enforced at existing markets that do not have it, and do not like that it was added that way in Praetorea. -
In the real world, most of us make a certain range of Dollars (or Euro, or Pounds or Renminbi). Sure, there's a huge range of possible incomes that people make, but, for example, something like 95% of the people in the US make less than $100k per year (according to tax software, anyway). We all have to take that income and spend it on things like food, a place to live, and other "basic necessities".
In the real world we might sit and think whether we can afford to spend $1000, because if we spend it, we may not be able to pay rent, buy food, or fix our car. In CoH, if we spend 10M inf on some set IO, we can't buy... some other set IOs. But set IOs are a luxury. We don't have to have them. Lots of us want them, sure, but we won't die of malnutrition or go to jail if we don't get them, or if we get cheaper, less powerful versions instead.
The cost of "basic necessities" in CoH is very low compared to what I expect the 95% income range is. Our characters don't need homes, or food. They don't have kids to care for, they never need a car. They never get sick, but if they get injured, they not only get free health care, they get teleported and resurrected to perfect health.
When people talk about equating Dollars and Inf, they mean someone looks at a price tag of 1B Inf and thinks, "my God, $1B is more money than many corporations earn in a year - how can I ever earn 1B Inf?" They're talking about translating Dollar sticker shock directly into Inf terms. Yes, Dollars and Inf are both used to buy stuff, but any true exchange rate between them cannot be used to decide what's out of reach for an in-game buyer. -
Builds on the forums are extremely frequently builds that have no price ceiling. They are "dream" builds in that sense.
Even for players who have no intention of building such things, those builds are informative. You can go a long way replacing the gold-plated platinum pieces of those builds with, say, copper, and still have a pretty damn effective build.
That said, I see plenty of build requests with stipulations like "no purples" or some other way of saying "don't make it too rich for my blood", and I've never seen a thread with reasonable traffic not comply. -
Quote:There's an important factor in setting the price that's not covered in that brief explanation. Supply of money. The specific prices we get are what they are because of three factors - supply of a good (how many are available for sale per unit time), demand for a good (how many people want the good - you have to out bit other people if you want to be served sooner), and how much money do they all have.This game have X amount of player. Everyone of then get the same amount of Y drops while playing. So supply and demand shouldn't be so outrageous to the point player are going to buy Inf with real money to pay 5bill for a whole set.The market isn't "broken" is more like the players break it.Taking me to the point of knowing the basic of economics
There's a huge amount of money available to level 50s in specific, just from playing the game. Someone like me who prefers to play IO'd 50s most of the time is capable of generating 100s of millions of inf per week without even touching traditional farming. People who don't play 50s much don't generate as much money, and so they don't compete as well with people like me unless they turn to other means of earning that money, of which learning to use the market is really the main one. Is this "imbalanced"? I can think of different ways to do it that I think would be ... friendlier.
That's just increasing supply. For better or worse, I suspect the devs don't really want to do that in bulk. Sure, it will lower prices, but what's more important to the devs - prices on the market, or how fast the player base adopts IOs on all characters? I think it's a bit surprising that people feel it should be so much easier to obtain IOs when the devs semi-regularly march out the claim that the game is not balanced assuming people have them. If they increase supply of IOs significantly enough to really drop prices, that assumption goes out the window.Quote:If players knew the basic of economics I think this inflation wouldn't be.They would use the game to generate money. For that you will need drops, but you will sell or created those you want. Making ppl less depending in the market to get what the want, lowering demand and increase supply. It become a full cycle "balancing" the market. This is my opinion.
That gets back to the inf supply bit. People who are doing that are doing it because they either have so much money they know they can afford that, or know that they can break their bank and earn it back in short order. They throw huge amounts of inf around because huge amounts of inf mean nothing to them - they consider it relatively easy to obtain. The biggest "imbalance" is between people like that and people not like that. There's an immense wealth gap created by playstyle preferences. I think it's possible to reduce the number of things that contribute to that, but I think it's impossible to change completely. Even if there was no difference in how much inf per +0 critter a level 1 and a level 50 earned, an IO'd 50 can take on a hell of a lot more critters per unit time than a level 1 at a lot more than +0. But today a 50 earns hundreds of times more even for just one +0 critter.Quote:But actually everyone is just there in the market throwing their money b/c they want it "NAO!" That is the chaotic part for me.
Edit: The long and short of it is that the devs can change how all this works by changing two things. One is supply, which has strong, fairly direct balance implications. The other is "monetary policy" - how much inf we create, how much inf stays in the system, and how it's distributed among players. -
That's correct as far as I know also. Drops from mobs are still a "flat" lookup.
Also correct as far as I know. -
I guess in order to "fix" it, I'd need a definition of how it's broken.
What do you think is broken about it? The level of the prices? The rate at which prices change? The fact that the change is usually an increase? The fact that prices vary widely with time and product level?
(Those are all examples of things I can see someone thinking are broken. I am not saying at this point that I think they are broken or that I think they're OK.) -
Yeah, something like that could work. I'd still be surprised, but less so.
-
Quote:I will be indescribably surprised if this happens.Yah. A good inf sink would handle a lot of this.
I think they could dramatically improve the game by allowing people to buy reward merits for around 1M inf. There'd be a brief massive bit of chaos (yay!) after which I think prices would stabilize MUCH lower for a lot of goods, but with a much smoother curve.
The other thing that would help the market a lot is letting people set levels for random rolls instead of "your level or recipe's max level".
Why? Because, for all that things like Alignment Merits increased the total rate at which certain stuff is being created (by making ease of production available to wider segments of the player base than just those that run TFs), their production rates are still quite strictly controlled by the per-character throttle.
The devs have much more on their mind than just giving us something to spend money on. They are also concerned with how much stuff there is in the game system, because rate of stuff production is an analog for time spent leveling. Stuff being rare and thus requiring large (and self-correcting) amounts of money to buy on the market keeps people chasing shinies. Allowing us to convert inf more or less directly into stuff essentially throws out all existing controls on the rate of producing stuff. We could begin to produce stuff at a rate only as limited as we are limited at creating inf.
I can't say it won't happen, but I really don't expect them to discard that particular time-sink/carrot combo. -
Causes of true, technical market inflation can be defined as anything that increases the ratio of the rate of inf production of relative to the rate of production of stuff we pay inf for. That's what inflation is - an increase in the money we pay per item.
Some changes in the game aren't market-wide inflation. For example, it seems likely that Alignment Merits increased the supply of "Pool C" recipes, causing a decrease in price, but they don't seem likely to have dramatically increased the supply of purples. One interpretation of the result is that money no longer spent on valuable Pool C recipes shifted to purchasing purples, leading to a price increase for purples as the price for things like LotGs went down. More money chasing the same number of goods is inflation, but it's only inflation in a specific market segment.
Most sources of market-wide inflation are things that increase the earning potential of the game's highest earners across the board. Examples would be pure increases in reward for high-level mobs (XP "smoothing", I16's inf doubling for L50 characters), ease-of-access to large spawns (I16's difficulty settings), and increases in character power (probable increased adoption of IO builds, Incarnate abilities).
Some (almost all) of these things also increase rates at which players produce drops like purples, or the speed with which they can run TFs or tip missions. But consider that Alignment Merits have a hard limit on how many you can both earn and spend per day. Reward Merits are theoretically based on the time it takes to complete a TF, and the time it takes to defeat foes is not always the primary throttle on those completion times. Eventually, increased inf earning rates from increased combat efficiency probably outpace rate of earning any other rewards that don't also tie directly to rate of mob defeats. (Like purples or "Pool A" recipes.)
So will inflation continue forever? That really depends on how much further our combat efficiency is allowed to increase without some corresponding decrease in reward for defeating the same foes with greater alacrity. As far as we know, the future will bring more combat effectiveness in terms of Incarnate abilities, but also as far as we know, there's nothing about that increase that will make, say, level 52 mobs worth less per defeat. That suggests that market-wide inflation still has some wind in its wings, with a rate that will depend on how fast we can earn new incarnate abilities. I'm not sure inflation will be allowed to continue forever, but if it continues at its pace from the last year or so too much longer, I think the devs might be forced to concede that either the aggregate rate of per-capita reward or the inf cap need review. -
Yellow Mitos at least can miss with their blasts. However, they have 300% +toHit and the blast has 150% accuracy, meaning that they basically only miss because they are forced to miss on any attack roll of 5% of less.
I've had the blast from a yellow chase me out into the hills and not actually strike me on several occasions.
Hami's own attack is, indeed, auto-hit. -
A puzzle does not do anything when it's complete. Our characters are not puzzles. They are more akin to tools we use to solve puzzles, and they are tools that improve at puzzle solving the longer we use them.
So what do puzzles have to do with it? Are you trying to say people treat building a character like a puzzle?
If you are, did you see the footnote in my post? -
Quote:It wouldn't for me either, but it's clearly lot more sustaining for me than it is for you. This is why, for example, I can appreciate the Inventions system even if it takes me a couple of months to build out a character to the target I set - I can enjoy playing the character along the way, earning what they need to obtain their gear and getting a feel for how they change when I slap on some new collection of acquired goodies.That's fun for a day. That's fun for a week. That's tolerable for a month. That don't cut it for seven years.
For me, while there's some "inner role-play" when I solo, more than anything it's about the mechanics. How high can I turn up my difficulty without having to slow combat to a crawl in order to survive? How fast can I beat down a spawn at some difficulty? How many spawns can I survive at once at some difficulty? How fast can I complete a given benchmark task? Now make a change, and can I do those better? That sort of stuff will entertain me for weeks at a time, and then I can refresh it just by switching to a character that plays differently. -
Quote:I'm sure you realize this at some level, and maybe even intended to imply it clearly, but that's a matter of opinion that depends a lot on what and how you play.If I only had three hours a week to play, I'd have dropped this game like a hot potato. It simply requires - and I picked this word intentionally - rather a lot of time in order to be worth playing.
I tend to play my existing 50s a lot. I'll play characters that are completely outfitted with builds I want for them. Why would I play a character that's so thoroughly "done"? Ignoring that it may be possible currently to bank progress against future incarnate content (because I played my "done" 50s before then) I play them because that's the whole point of getting them to their peak potential. If I didn't want to run around being a bad-***, why would I bother tricking out the character? Why would I bother getting to 50 with something I would retire and never play any more?*
So given such characters and my willingness to play them, it's easy for me to hop on, log one of them in and run around for an hour or something beating stuff up. I'm one of those players who was able to get long, long enjoyment out of single-player Diablo (the original). Running around being bad-*** compared to my environment is just inherently fun to me, and I'm willing to do it to some extent just for its own sake.
It's actually when I have more time to focus on the game that I want a greater sense of progress and reward for my time invested in playing. The hour-ish stints of "just beat stuff up" are perfect for when I don't have more time to engage in something more ... productive in game.
* I know there are answers to these questions that work for other people. I'm asking them rhetorically to illustrate my position. -
Meh, I don't see the hate. I do think the view that this is that awesome that it shouldn't be given out as an exclusive is only because we are such frequent market-heads. I know people that are going to consider this one on par with new boxers.
Then again, I don't have significant pity for people who can't deal with the physical markets, so take the above with whatever amount of salt is required. -
I know one who'll get this in a few months. He was here at pre-release, but had a few months lapse in his sub relatively early on.
He's one of those folks who finds it a mindless way to relax. -
After seeing that it came with large inspiration buffs, I was guessing 1 hour. Honestly, that's about perfect for how often I actually die. (I actually die a lot less than once/hour.) Now, it's true that sometimes I die multiple times in a short timeframe. The buffs attached to this will help prevent that, however. I'm pleased with it.
The 84 month one is hawtsauce.
