_Ilr_

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Powerboost wouldn't do much for a SR scrapper as it stands. It improves the secondary effects of powers, and defense is a primary power in the SR set.

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Tell that to a DM/SR

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This means that every enemy always had a base of 50% plus a % buff instead of a fixed buff? Or was it changed to be this way with the new system?

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That's not exactly true, but for all practical purposes, it is close enough. They had a higher Base To Hit value, which is the same as having a To Hit buff that increased their To Hit to that point.

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In other words... Defense Builds were being Double Penalized against +1, +2, +3 Bosses, LT's, and AV/Monsters(Just like a couple Graphs I made at the time suggested) ...especially all the frikkin downtrodden wretches sitting in cold-storage which we refer to as "ForceField Defenders".


My only question is... what the hell took so long?

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Do you think the server we all know and love could handle doing buff-checks every tenth of a second on every player for the duration that a rain-power or pseudo-pet is in play?

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It already does ACC, chance of Knockdown, and -SPD anti-stacking code. And damage on DoTs are assigned only one time when the DoT is created, not every tick. If we could buff a "drop" after it was made, then we'd already have been able to do it with Burn and Blizzard just by hitting fulcrum after it was created. But these Drops appear to be flagged un-buffable just like Phantom Armies

Since Fulcrum Shift isn't thought of as a PbAoE Pet/Drop... It needs the 10-target vs 3 Target "upfront-Buffing" for it they did did for Energy Absorbtion. Fulcrum shift starts out as a ranged AoE and should have 16 Targets just like every other Ranged AoE.

Let us not forget the whole reason DEF doesn't scale is because the Devs put in code that grants Mobs a higher To-Hit based on Rank(Which I5 showed us was a global Variable that required no more effort to change than a couple lines in an Excel Doc) and against minus-level players as well. So this was a problem of their own making in the first place.

For balancing it... Well, it looks like there's already mechanics in the game at later levels that do that... Fortunatas, DE Quartz, and any other mobs with To-Hit buffs.

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Why the sudden turnaround in Dev behaviour?

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Yeah..I'm scared

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I understand your point, but that's not the same thing. Now the AV is +3 which is a lot tougher for a duo than an even-con AV or even +1 AV.

That's like going back to square one and requiring soloists to "Gain 3 more levels before you trying fighting your AV."

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Oh... well in that case... ...look at the brightside!
You can just respawn in your base instead of riding all the way back to the hospital in the WAAAHMBULANCE

*scratches 3 items off the list*
Well crap... this only leaves us with 999,997 things to complain about.


This probably isn't the place to ask,
but it would sure be nice to know if anyone else but Castle is looking into Defender issues. ...It would also be nice to know who's looking at Assault Rifle issues, and who's looking at Dominators. ...But mainly, when is Repel going to get ACC enhancment slotting? Been waiting a pretty long time for it...
K Thx Bye

And an argument FOR soloing

Oh, and I wouldn't be Ilr if I left out:
The Popular kids

Twas the night before Christmas, when all through City
Not a creature was stirring, not even Shoulder Kitty.

Since when has Shoulder Kitty ever budged? Shoulder Kitty needs its feeding tube removed

The stockings were hung by the Teleporters with care,
In hopes that St. Cuppa soon would be there.

Don't you mean SOON?

The lowbies were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of Hammi-O’s danced in their heads.

PL'ers should only get Coal.

And Healer in her ‘kerchief, and I in my cap,
Were logging out our mains for a long winter’s nap.

There is no "Healer" Archetype n00b!

Away to the base portal I flew like the Flash(tm),
Tore open the shutters and readied my blasts.

Liar, we all know you can't afford teleporters

When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature Cuppacopter, and eight tiny Moditeers.

You forgot _Nomalph_

With a little caffeinated driver, so lively and so tact,
I knew in a moment it must be St Cuppa, fresh from a Modsmack.

N3RF teh M0dSm4cK!!11!EGGNOG!!11

"Now Awry! now, Valdermic! now, Tsirin and Aura!
On, Castle! On, Arctic Sun! on, on Vyvane and Alexa!

Whatever it takes I guess ...just as long as Statesman isn't "looking at it".

To the top of Atlas’ Globe! to the top of the Warwall!
Now Jump away! Fly away! Port away all!"

Everyone knows superspeed should be able to atleast climb walls too...

As villains that before the Stormy’s hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky.

Shhh!... we don't want that one nerfed.

So up to the base-top the Mod Team they flew,
With the Cuppacopter full of Salvage, and CuppaJo too.

Because there's no better reward than salvage...

And then, in a twinkling, I saw, quiet like a ghost
The Modding and Editing of each little post.

...yeah, the world as we know it would end if a 3-letter word for buttocks bypassed the filters

As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
Through the base portal Cuppa came with a bound.

The leapng pool is a little "too good" now...especially in PvP

She was dressed all in fur, and smelled slightly of toffee,
And her clothes were all stained with spills from hot coffee.

...that's what ya get for "bounding" around with hot coffee.

A bundle of Salvage she had flung on her back,
And she looked like a Freakshow, or maybe a packrat.

...neither of which carry large bags...

Her droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the flame proof suit was as white as the snow.

Even though I'm a scrooge, I'll leave it alone at this one, it's pretty darned good from here out.

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well I agree for the most part except drones should be having tp foe aura protection. i strongly would be against that, because those people who use tp foe into the drones wouldnt have much of a counter. it's always fun to find those lamers who tp people into drones, to tp them into a 8on1 beatdown

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If you're being TP'd into drones, then it's probably because you're too close to someone's base to begin with, Griefer

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Excellently summarized, both posts. Here are the root issues that need to be addressed.

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Kewl, then that means I can go bow out of this one now, unless Castle has anything else to add. I'll just ask that any further rebuttals only be taken seriously if they're from those who've fully loaded out and tested their Stalkers, or whatever AlphaStriking avatars they may own -- Atleast to the point that they resemble the AlphaStrikers most commonly enountered in PvP lately (2xStealthed, 800+ damage Alphas, +DEF powers, etc). "Gentlemen, you have the last word"

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Now everyone, tell me why im wrong!

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You're not wrong. Those are all valid Team tactics, and it's good to see people discussing them. When a disorganized number of players see a whole team in PvP, their gut reaction is to also form a team to compete with the first team.

The only mistake you made, was in failing to address the fact that Alphastriking is allowing single players to make numerous kills against solo AND teamed players because of Stealth/DEF and AlphaStrike abuse. AlphaStriking by it's very nature is designed to let the User make that kill and then flee instantly...completely removing risk from the reward. "teaming up more" is not going to be the gut reaction that most people have when they're the victim of that.

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I don't think this is a balance issue, at it's core-at least, I don't think that Stalkers as-is are grossly unbalanced, and I'm not willing to say they're unbalanced at all 'til I've seen how things play out a bit more. I think this is an issue of style, and access.

The quick, brutal, one-shot style game naturally appeals to the kind of people who enjoy PvP the most. It's completely unforgiving-basically a series of manuevers to "get the drop" on your opponents and keep them from getting the drop on you. Stalkers are by far the best AT in this game for that playstyle, so naturally the people who enjoy that are playing Stalkers. They don't understand why people complain about being one-shotted. They don't object to it when it happens to them, so obviously anyone who does object is just whining.

People who have a more "casual" attitude towards PvP (at least in my experience) prefer fights with a little bit longer duration. They'd like to have a chance to use a wider variety of their powers, and would prefer to see more acts and counters in the actual fight, rather than in the buildup. They don't understand how anyone can get enjoyment from a 3 second fight-so obviously anyone who fights like that is an evil ganker who's only pleasure is to ruin everyone's day.

In truth, it's going to be awfully hard to satisfy both sides completely, but the PvP game as it plays right now is way to twitchy for me, whether I win or lose. I think that's true for the majority of players. Of course, we could just leave it to the people who enjoy it as it is. But in the long run if you want PvP to bve more than an awkward and little used appendage you're going to have to find some way to come to terms with the casual players who-face it-are the majority of this playerbase.

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That's IMHO, the best way this whole argument has ever been framed. ...Even as it's at odds with my own desires that AlphaStriking remain a viable tactic for a minority of encounters... But it highlights the fact that casual gamers are what really drives successful and entertaining PvP and Head-to-Head gaming... As proven by Counterstrike, Starcraft, and Battlefield.

The greatest PvP games have as many checks and balances set up as possible to ensure that most players can't just zip in and bypass the defenses and/or offenses of any other player. It's not the "1-shotting" that's the biggest problem, it's the ease at which it's being carried out that is continuing to drive casual gamers away from PvP.

...And YES! They ARE being driven away. I'm not talking about the Forum whiners here. I've spent too many hours to count in various PvP zones and have seen too many players already voice their discontent with being "unable to fight back" against so many of the cheap tactics being exploited in PvP. They do it in team chat, broadcast, and some even complain about it in PvE zones to discourage others from even trying PvP. It's the main reason that many AT's, both of the Villain and Hero factions stay out of PvP even though Castle and the devs have balanced team PvP to rely on those AT's also showing up to these zones. ...Masterminds and Dominators are the most noteable ones though in complaining about their defenses being bypassed instantly. So it's not just people facing Stalkers who are geting fed up with 5-second fights. ...You can't learn anything from a conflict when it ends before you've even realized it began.

Any PvP that doesn't give both players the opportunity to change the outcome of the fight, while the fight is happening will be loathed by the majority of players because the majority of players are not Quasons, they're not CircuitBoys, they're not Pilcrows(There's too many sucky illusion controllers out there as it is!), and they're certainly not _Castles_. They lack the creativity or raw math skills to narrow these issues down and figure out what "they're doing wrong". And yes Cryptic is Special, special in that they're never happy with the level of challenge they ask their players to face. But Cryptic is going to have to side with the carebears a little bit if all AT's are going to be welcome in PvP in order to support their design goal of having PvP built around Team vs Team matchups. You have to crawl before you can walk, just like most people solo for a while before they really get heavy into teaming.

And constant Insta-Gank is NOT solo-friendly ... thus it's discouraging the Teaming that PvP was built around.

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But most people ARE going to college now. The College Board (people that do the SAT, among other things) recently reported that the percentage of students who go on to college directly out of high school has risen above the 50% mark. I read that in the NEA journal (my wife is a public school teacher) but I'll try to find an online source to link for you if you like.

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LMAO, that's not because a larger number of people are going to college, it's because less are graduating from high school. ..I don't know which America you live in, but it's pretty obvious in the real one that the Haves and the Have-Nots are drifting a lot farther apart lately. Kudos though, I still keep snickering everytime I think about "Anne Coulter 2008"

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Actually, I would say I have veteran experience.

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That's already been established... but in WHAT AREAS? Because it doesn't seem to in the areas of understanding AoE/Auras or how Perception actually works. There's also more to it that just playing the game -- understanding how algorythems and functions are optimized and combined with a random number generator also plays a big part in looking for these kinds of things and understanding why they're not meshing with consistant design. ..the last part is good old American elbow grease and quick observation. ...judging by the rest of your response, I'm pretty sure you lack atleast one of those...

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As to your accusations that I like the precedents being set, well if you have read any of my previous posts you would see that I most definately do not like anything about this thread..and the precedent for people crying to nerf others powers was set a LONG time ago.

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Gratz, you totally missed the precedent being set. A number of your previous arguments championed victories decided purely by things you didn't even fully understand yourself. Among them, Stealth-vs-Perception, and other such Build-based Arms-races. That's not rock paper scissors, that's just neanderthals trying to pick up the biggest rocks...no paper in sight.

And if you went into it armed only your "experience", then everyone else would trump you because they'd know your weaknesses better than you do. Or rather your stalker would be gank-bait to every high-perception Controller&Blaster that teamed up to hunt Double-Stealthed stalkers.

I was hoping you'd object to the notion that you "shouldn't participate in either because you don't know the specifics", and in a way you did, but didn't pick up on it as being the Satire is was intended as. IE: you SHOULD be able to participate, and come away with a sense of accomplishment in both activities. But as it stands, only the guys who are winning the "+PER vs Stealth"-War are staying out of the hospitals long enough to accumulate any kind of Rep or confidence in PvP. Likewise you haven't lost this argument yet, but you sure don't seem to be winning it either. Next I'd exspect you to chirp "well winning isn't everything"...

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To me not having fun because I would be dead after every fight, well the way things are now, that doesn't happen, no matter what AT I play.

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Give it time, PvP is already a villain activity played almost-exclusively by Stalkers. In response, threads about it are popping up and hero AT boards are beginning to see +PER minmaxxing/advice while Stalkers are already talking Double-Stealth as required for PvP. This is known as Polarization and if you don't keep up with it, you'll find all of your AT's getting left farther and farther behind...seeing less and less wins, and more and more ganks. Pretty soon you won't even be welcome on Teams, and will be ... well, left to the Wolves


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As far as saying I talk like a JF..that's just insulting..if this were MW I would call you a filthy free birth and challenge you to Zellbrigan

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Well, I'm no ilKahn, but I'd batchall with my star of Timbers to up the ante and then have them stand down so I could beat you just using a Nova. ..It wouldn't be he first time I've done it.

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I feel that there are counters to everything, and a way to overcome just about every thing out there....I still haven't figured out how to overcome hurricane used by storm controllers/def. Or repel used by kinetics.

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Then why are you even weighing in on this discussion to begin with? Give me a sheet of paper and a calculator and I could tell you exactly how to beat both of them with any build down to the exact attack-chain and # of slots. Oddly enough, this is the only reason I go into a PvP zone when there's Stalkers in it. Do you LIKE this dangerous precedent that's being set? Are you fully contemplating the results of PvP where only the Elite can have fun? ...For Starters, YOU wouldn't be having any fun there because you'd be dead after every fight.

As a fellow fan of Clan Wolf (I even named one of my heroes after a Kerensky), I have to say, you're acting more like a Jade Falcon. You might *feel* that things are balanced but you're leaping in with assumptions instead of veteran experience.


So let's address the 5 most common myths about Stalking:
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#1: "Keep moving and you won't get AS'd "[*] FALSE! As long as AS is started while your target is in melee range, it WILL hit nomatter how quickly the target leaves melee range during the Interruption window(line of Sight pending)

#2: "Stalkers only do good damage when Critting/AS'ing "[*] FALSE! Stalkers' attacks are still a Primary and all of them including Claws have higher single-target DPS than ALL defender Secondaries, ALL-but-1 Dominator Secondary, 4/6 Controller Primaries, ALL Tanker Secondaries, ALL MM's, and almost half of Corruptor Primaries. The only reason Blasters and Scrappers edge them out, is that they recieve 125% to the Stalkers 100% +DMG from Buidup, but that doesn't take into account the Stalker's higher Damage-Cap that allows AS to function as it does.

#3: "2 Perception powers can see Double-Stealth "[*] FALSE! For ~83% of all possible powerset-combos, it takes 3 or more. Meanwhile most builds can only achieve 1 or 2 perception powers...and one of them depends on winning the battles in Siren's...a zone festering with Stalkers. That's what's known as a Catch22.

#4: "AoE always interrupts my AS! "[*] FALSE! Even a /Regen can pop a Luck and hit the AoE defense-cap(5% chance to be hit) against all slow-ticking or PvP Non-Autohit AoE's that A)Don't have ACC slotting as an Option, B)Have an inherrant ACC Penalty, or C)Are poorely slotted for ACC because the 7 other enhancement options on them take much higher priority in day-to-day combat or may even be required to attack a Stalker effectively once one is finally spotted. And to top this all off, the devs will be changing as many Auto-hit AoE's into To_Hit--checking AoE's as they can get away with, SOON

#5: "I HAVE TO stay hidden for a long time and watch/follow carefully before I can defeat anyone "[*] FALSE, you lurk unseen and pick your fights carefully because it's a Luxury afforded to you. Just like it was a Luxory afforded to Illusionists in Issue#4. But the only thing you need to "watch carefully" is your mouse pointer as you put it over the players in front of you so you can look for +PER powers(Here's a tip: just toggle your targeting button to get him, and press whatever button is bound to /info, it's much faster). ANY player with Stealth and Invis powers has this luxory and always has to follow their target around for a random-to-extended duration of time in order to stack the odds of snagging themselves an easy kill--even against a team of players** There is no need for a Gamble on your part, a Monkey who is taught to use a calculator could do the same thing. Meanwhile players without superior -PER cloaking powers, especially squishies, are at the Mercy of anything they get within visible range of, including gank-squads and Scissors-to-their-Paper. THAT takes REAL self-confidence and skill to shine when you're that guy!



**A couple days ago my Ill/Kin "Stalktroller" killed 3 Masterminds in 15 seconds that were clumped together camping our BB-Base with 2 other Masterminds, and I escaped the fight with 30% health simply by visualizing my target(s)/DPS ahead of time without them knowing I was there. 10 seconds later after resting a few feet out of their perception, I came back for the last one while a rather lame Scrapper distracted and slowly defeated the 2nd of the remaining MM's... BTW, 2 of them were */FF. I don't even want to think about about the size of the groups my Spines/Ninjitsu Stalker will be capeable of soloing in PvP considering I'll have Slow/Fear/Mez protection.

Edit = condensed for brevity
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Two, I like to think we are special here at Cryptic.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes indeedy! Unlike most official game forums, you guys pop in dispel rumors! It's totally unfair to the raging Extremeists

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Three, everyone needs to remember the absolute cap on Stealth is lower than the absolute cap on Perception if the players are even level. This means that a TEAM using non-Temp powers but with a good overlap of other powers will be able to see a Stalker before that Stalker gets into Melee Range. Additionally, while Tactics is a Toggle power which can be left on indefinitely for a +Perception boost, Grant Invisibility is a click buff which has a finite duration. So, a group of Stalkers + Support needs to stop and rebuff every few minutes to remain at the Stealth Cap, while a group using overlapped Tactics can remain on the move constantly.

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So what you're saying is, we have to Team up and search and search until we find several specialized +PER builds, simply to avoid constant AlphaStrikes? That stuff takes some SERIOUS power/insp investments! And on top of that, we must contantly buff CM or stay in a very confined radius of eachother (since Tactics is the only shared +PER Aura available to everyone)? How are we supposed to react to that? GLAD? That ain't PvP, that's Accounting. What kind of players actually enjoy feeling helpless without a bunch of specialized teammates at their beck and call?

Taking a few beatings builds Character. But feeling helpless is the opposite of feeling like a Hero.

Then by all means Quason... Please elaborate on how it's fair to use those 3 tactics every time they recharge? ...and I've seen how quickly they all recharge.

Better yet, tell me in all honesty that you've only used them occaisionally?

Your holier than thou attitude is finally starting to get on my Nerves, Pal. I'm starting to see you for what you really are, a Minmaxer who just moves from one FotM to the next. They nerfed your ShortCircuit Lockdown "AlphaStrike" and now you've moved onto Stalkers. After that it will be /DA Brutes followed by Ice/Kin corruptors ...round and round we go!

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_Castle_ Wrote:
Bingo. This was exactly my point.

PvP is a very fine balance and there are a lot of ways to creatively combine powers for extreme effect. Assassin Attacks, while powerful, are only the most visable (irony?) example. There are others which are worse and whatever solution we come up with for 'The one shot problem' has to address as many variations as we can identify.

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Then let's stop calling it One-Shotting and use the proper Term: Alpha Strikes.

Some Alpha Strikes can't be avoided because they involve Zerging or a Level 32 to 38 "Ultimate" and those powers are already balanced against repeated use. And I don't see why AS can't remain this way too, under the condition that its made a lot more situational in PvP. ...that's the key to AlphaStrikes, is Situational Use. But as long as Stalkers are allowed to use it on a moving target, OR while Double-Stealthed, OR immediately after a Placating; it becomes a staple and cheapens the image of the Stalker in everyone else's eyes.

BEFORE anything is done about Alpha Strikes, Please Please Please address the issue of Situation first, and see how much of the Griping is reduced. Stalkers have a Job to do with their AS. That job is not Constant ganking, but the AlphaStrike should still be an option under very specific situations. For everything else, they still have the tools to zip in undetected and pick off the damaged players. ...which is still a ton of fun to do... My ill/Kin "Stalktroller" does it all the time and lives to tell about it. Everything else can be balanced by Situation as it always has been, as witnessed so many of the changes we've had to adapt to in PvE on every other Archetype in this game.

And thank you Sir, for looking into these matters

That's true as well. Having to rely on Insights wouldn't be that bad if the +PER lasted 2 minutes like most buffs ...And you could actually buy the damn things in Siren's Call(the favored hunting ground of most Stalkers).

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Quick question:

Is Caltrops + (Trip Mine * 3) a "One Shot" or is it 4 attacks?

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...Or how about TP'foeing a Player directly into a large +2 Tsoo spawn complete with Bosses? As was mentioned, the 1-shotting is occuring in the fact that Teleport-Foe can be used as an AlphaStrike. It's also related to AS'ing inronically enough. The solution of course, is Instead of an Accuracy-Check, a Velocity-Check needs to be done to determin whether the player could actually be hit with either of these Attacks assuming RL physics were applied. More-convenient coding is nice and all, but Concept is much more important, especially for a SuperHero/SciFi game.

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Poz -- maybe I am misunderstanding you here, but Illusion's Phantom Army is an "uncontrolled" pet yet slotting damage & accuracy enhancements does increase the Army's ability to hit & do damage. Is it only Recharge enhancements that are different?

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This is an age-old problem for coding Summons. Mostly it's in their AI scripts because there's a ton more work if you have to enter Variables into their Idling and attack Frequencies. And the end result tends to complicate Pet-Type balance matters making it more trouble than it was worth.

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Snipes are already governed by Line of Sight so they're not as bad.

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This applies to AS as well. If you jump behind around the corner of a building, no AS.

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No [censored] Sherlock. But here's the thing... AS is a melee attack. Teleporting or Leaping 50 yards away while it's still interruptable, but being hit because there's still a line of Sight is the kind of crap you'd expect in magical fairies and hobbits and sharks with friggin lasers on their heads fantasy Land... It has no place in a game like this that is highly twitch based and goverened by Ragdoll Physics. ...Do you have any idea of the full collision detection potential that Ragdoll and CoH's superior AI programming could accomplish??? We're talking 9th Wonder of the World here. We should expect better. Infact combined with Placate, long-range AS is the biggest "I Win" Button any AT has ever had in PvP, beating out I4's Perma-Ellude Scrappers and Perma-Phaseshifters.

Infact#2, I already passed this issue onto Statesman and he in turn went through the trouble to reply back and tell me he was sending it to Castle. It doesn't seem like an issue that 'would make the engineers' heads explode' so no one here is to say it's "working as intended" or "going to stay that way" until the Devs get back to us on it. Capiche? (Not directed at BRod, but at everyone else who argues just for the sake of arguing)

Your idea sucks. PvP and Stalkers would be boring as hell without 1-shotting. The only thing that needs to change about 1-shotting is the mechanics leading up to it....IE: Inspiration and Stealth Abuse ...Including Nukes. Snipes are already governed by Line of Sight so they're not as bad. But everyone needs more options on stopping 1-shotting. After that, it's their own fault if they get 1-shotted, or 2-shotted.