Ammon

"Looks like that Roseline Thorne girl is dead then" - Comments made by numerous smarter readers of the Rogue Island newspapers while seeking job opportunities and seeing a certain ad.

I think that maybe looking at a couple of sample builds may be helpful in understanding just what an Ice Tank can do. Anyone of you with Ice Tank builds you love are welcome to share them here, with a few notes, where they may inspire others to discover the absolute joys of Ice Armour.

The following is an Ice/Ice tank that was designed to be a dedicated team meat-shield tank, and in that role will excell. However, this build is not a heavy-hitter, and would chug along pretty slowly if used for soloing.

Name: Meatshield Ice Tanker
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Ice Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) - Frozen Armor - EndRdx(1) DefBuf(3) EndRdx(3) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(7) EndRdx(40)
01) - Frozen Fists - Acc(1) Acc(5) Dmg(5) Rechg(9) Dmg(9) Dmg(40)
02) - Chilling Embrace - EndRdx(2) Slow(11) Taunt(11) Slow(37) Slow(46)
04) - Hoarfrost - Heal(4) Rechg(13) Heal(13) Rechg(15) EndRdx(15) Heal(46)
06) - Wet Ice - EndRdx(6)
08) - Combat Jumping - DefBuf(8)
10) - Taunt - Rechg(10) Taunt(17) Taunt(37)
12) - Swift - Run(12)
14) - Super Jump - Jump(14)
16) - Health - Heal(16) Heal(17) Heal(31)
18) - Glacial Armor - EndRdx(18) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(23) EndRdx(39)
20) - Ice Patch - Rechg(20) Rechg(21) EndRdx(21)
22) - Stamina - EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(25)
24) - Icicles - EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25) Acc(29) Acc(31) Dmg(31) Dmg(33)
26) - Energy Absorbtion - Rechg(26) EndMod(27) Rechg(27) EndMod(29) EndRdx(34) EndMod(39)
28) - Boxing - Acc(28)
30) - Tough - EndRdx(30) DmgRes(34) EndRdx(34) DmgRes(39)
32) - Hibernate - Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) - Freezing Touch - Acc(35) Acc(36) Hold(36) Hold(36) Rechg(37) Dmg(45)
38) - Weave - EndRdx(38) DefBuf(40) DefBuf(43) EndRdx(43)
41) - Focused Accuracy - EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(42) TH_Buf(43) EndRdx(46)
44) - Hasten - Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) - Greater Ice Sword - Acc(47) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Acc(48) Dmg(50)
49) - Build Up - Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) - Sprint - EndRdx(1)
01) - Brawl - Acc(1)
01) - Gauntlet - Empty(1)
02) - Rest - IntRdx(2)

You'll notice a lot of end-reductions in the slotting. Ice Armour is very heavy on endurance, and since this particular build is based on maxing out the defence side, and is therefore low on damage dealing, a lot of fights may last a long time unless you have damage-dealing teammates.

This is a build that is designed to tank constantly through any mission or task force without ever needing a rest in most cases. Energy Absorbtion is a fantastic power for regaining endurance, and one of the best powers in the Ice Armour set, often missed out on because people mistakenly slot it for defence enhancing.

You may wonder why I chose to take Ice Patch at 20th level, leaving Stamina to 22nd. Once you take the Ice Patch you'll know exactly why. This is an amazing damage prevention power, which combined with your high defence and slow effects, is why you can outlast a granite tanker in most cases. That's why Ice Melee is generally the best defensive compliment to any tanker primary.

Of course, you can't help noticing that this build has only the basic attack power and brawl for damaging, until gaining Icicles at level 24. I did say that this build was geared to defence. However, Frozen Fists is a fast-recharging attack, and in this build it has a single recharge enhance slotted so that it is a constant jabbing attack that keeps your gauntlet up. In numbers terms, it means you are doing equivalent damage a little over 2 brawls per second before you get Icicles.

Again, this is a defensive build that is nigh-on unbeatable at defending and herding for a team, holding aggro supremely well, and able to move around very quickly to adapt to situations such as another wave of mobs suddenly ambushing.

I'll put up a more aggressive build later, but wanted the extreme defender build up first, particularly because so many mentions of granite armour had been made in this thread so far.

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you will go into a fight that no other tank could survive and walk out without a scratch because luck ran good for you.

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Granite tank says otherwise

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I've teamed with Granite tanks many times with both of my Ice Tanks. There are situations where no tank is going to have a picnic. Lack of team buffs, and a lot of inbound slows and end-drain debuffs for example. A granite tank without SB is a bit of a gimp anyway, but when hit with slows, he's the saddest lump of useless inert rock you could play.

Meanwhile, the Ice Tank, highly resistant to slows, and not needing buffs just to get through a mission in less than a month, just sailed on through.

Granite armour is incredible, which is why it has such extreme penalties to balance it out.

The buffs it takes just to enable a granite tank to actually have a fight, rather than be an inert punchbag turn any tank into an awesome killer - with or without granite.

If you'd like to see that demonstrated, I'd be happy to team my ice tank with your granite clad stoner, and count bodies as we go. How about we start with CoTs with big mobs of earth thorns, and then move on to Knives of Artemis with the stacked caltrops?

My Ice Tank doesn't need RA, doesn't need SB, and in fact needs no buffs at all bar an occassional heal, though he does appreciate anything that raises his defence cap, like Fort.

My Ice/Ice tank adores Malta mobs, happily running in to slap a freeze hold on the sapper, putting him instantly out of the fight. On the very rare occassions where he misses, or the slightly less rare occassions where there is a second sapper, the sapper has generally missed me with enough shots that I take him out before he ever hits me.

Now of course, I'm citing cases where Ice is unusually strong where other tanks are weak. But that is the point. While there are certain situations in which a Stone Tank can outlast my Ice one, there are very few where it can out-perform one.

I usually picture them as service record commendations within Hero Corps, many of which would indeed be like campaign ribbons in military service.

Some of my heroes regularly wear the one's they value most, either as medals, or as lapel pins or whatever seems appropriate to the accolade/honour in question.

Suzi nodded frequently as Missy, the famous Miss Teen, spoke her mind. Suzi's own experiences with giving help and advice to two particularly special people she'd called 'sisters' had made her understand perfectly.

It was hard to be a teenage girl in any situation. But coping with it far from one's family, while also dealing with super-powers, and the responsibilities of being a 'hero' was just too much for many young girls.

While Hero Corps tried hard to be a nurturing training ground for young heroes and heroines, it really wasn't equipped to give emotional support to the increasing numbers of teenage supers that were appearing.

Hearing Miss Teen's idea made her picture a kind of open access support group. A place where you could find people who'd listen easily, like sisters, and simply be there when a girl needed advice, or simply needed someone to talk to who'd listen with patience and understanding.

Suzi had memories of young girls who'd gotten pregnant, and could all too easily imagine how many additional complications there could be if such a girl (or her boyfriend) were a mutant, worrying about how that might affect any child.

"Missy, you have my support on this absolutely. I think it is a wonderful idea" Suzi said, smiling warmly. "I had the chance to help a couple of brave young girls in exactly the way you mean. Not only did it help them, but it helped me too, really gave me something positive when I needed it"

Suzi paused for a moment, sipping her drink thoughtfully until she reached a decision.

"There's something I have to tell you though, Missy" she began. "I've been told there's a very high risk that I won't live very long. No, no, don't be upset, honey. I'm finding that the life I have is very sweet, and if it is to be short, it is still a life I expected to have ended a year ago."

"The point is," Suzi continued, "that it means I can't be too central or irreplaceable in this. You have my support without question, but it must be you that is the leading figure, dear."

In her mind, Suzi was already thinking of some of the young heroines that could be approached as the first core members. Rachel was certainly one, but also Cassidy and Burnie...

"How about we start something immediately by having a regular drop-in place, like Monday evenings in Pocket D?" Suzi suggested.

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The immediate and public success of the Valiant Defenders showed that the Paragon City-born model for organising heroes could work well in other parts of the world. Interestingly, it was not the heroes themselves who first made the leap of logic, but rather an enterprising woman named Rebecca Foss. The London born executive had made her fortune and earned her fame buying and selling commercial real estate. By 1992 she was one of the forty richest women in Great Britain. Stellar success aside, this was still a relatively humble beginning for the woman who is today recognised as the manager and chief business advocate for several thousand of the world’s most powerful super beings.


Foss happened to be in Moscow on business when the Valiant Defenders had their public grand opening. She immediately saw not only the potential for good the group could accomplish in a chaotic country like Russia, but also the tremendous profits that could be made along the way. Already street vendors were selling Valiant Defenders T-shirts. Valiant Defenders memorabilia (as well as home videos of their first public battle) ended up selling to news organisations around the world for hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Foss saw huge potential for franchising such hero organisations around the world, especially in developing markets where the local government did not have the resources or know-how to establish effective super-powered organisations on their own.

source: http://eu.cityofheroes.com/city-guid...m_and_the_90s/

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Think of it very much like sports heroes, all the WWF merchandise, pop star merchandise, etc.

There are all kinds of merchandise available, from calendars to action figures, from DVDs to fact books, etc.

The guide is handy, Ultra, but it is very generalised, not covering the huge disparity between states, or between small town USA vs Big City USA.

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UltraNova's Quick Guide to Being American!

1) Americans don't drink "Lager", as a rule. Most would not even know what lager is!

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Its more that America's bars are unfamiiar with bitter really, in the cities. However, America does have a real ale society too, it just is very very minor as sub-culture goes. It is bitter that most Americans will be unaware of.

Also, American beer is typically much weaker than European beers with Budweiser being about half the alcohol content measure for measure compared to strong bitters or stouts.

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2)Chavs do not exist outside of england/europe. We have hoodrats, but they have a different attitude to chavs.

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But Trailer Trash is an Americanism that has been exported. So if your English mind thinks Chav, the chances are your character would be thinking Trailer Trash. Similar concept.

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3) Americans would not use these words and might even find them offensive: Mate, [censored], Cocker, Flower, Pet

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However, the word 'f.a.n.n.y.' is a perfectly acceptable word for one's bottom, and what we used to call 'bum-bags' the Americans refer to as 'f.a.n.n.y.-packs'. Patting your wife or partner's [censored] in public is perfectly acceptable over there.

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4)I doubt any americans would say "lo", "heya!" or "Hiya". Its not something they typically say

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Before the internet put the brits in touch with the US via chat rooms, heya and hiya were virtually unused words here in my experience. I certainly first heard it from American chat rooms, so I'd take this as one of those things that differs by state.

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6)Pubs are not common site for america, nor does it have a pub culture, This one is a tought one to describe, but if you go to pocket d and act like your in a pub, you are breaking character to a degree. Especially if you are younger.

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Pubs in the cities do vary, but are almost always simply called Bars. The word 'pub' would be very unusual unless they were specifically referring to one of the english theme pubs that several cities have.

Boston and SF both have plenty of British style pub-bars, and even more Irish ones. Boston has quite a good bar scene that the English could feel at home in. However, in most places the minimum age is 21.

Additionally, being drunk is taken very seriously in some states, and a bar can lose its license if it regularly allows drunken people to just wander out into the streets. Many bars in some states will refuse to serve anyone looking innebriated, and some may even pressure customers to sober up before they leave.

In small-town USA in many states, the bar is a social center as much as a church is (though often to a different social crowd). Many of these are exactly like a fairly typical pub, with a pool table, smokey atmosphere, and crowd of local regulars.

Therefore an American experience of 'pub culture' will vary massively according to their upbringing and background.

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I won't argue that it's a superb survivability tool, but if, as you suggested, you needed to spend 1/3 of a protracted battle in Hibernate, the rest of your team would almost certainly be dead.

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If the rest of the team were so useless as to fail to heal you, or to kill or mez enemies, so much that you had to spend any serious time in Hibernation, they aren't worth saving. Not only can they not survive without you, they seem to be wanting you to solo PL the mission for them.

No, I was thinking of soloing particularly hard bosses, or PvP in describing such a protracted single fight. If you had a team with you, no fight should really last long enough for that to be a possibility, never mind an actuality.

This is a post to talk about Ice Tanks to answer some of the questions a lot of people have about them, and also to correct a lot of the misconceptions about them.

One of the first things you come across when people talk about Ice Tanks is that "defence is a luck-based protection". These people are usually those awfully pesimistic people for whom the glass is always half empty.

Yes, very occassionally, a run of bad luck will cause a bunch of attacks in a row to hit. But by the same rule, occassionally you will go into a fight that no other tank could survive and walk out without a scratch because luck ran good for you.

Let's look at another example - go send your resistance-based tank against a mob of Malta with 2 sappers in. In two seconds all your shields have dropped, and you don't have enough end to raise a two-fingered salute, never mind your shields. Oh, now that's bad luck. Because the ice tank next to you hasn't even noticed the sappers yet because 80% of their attempts to hit him will miss, and they'll likely be dead before the luck lets them hit, what with his aura slowing their attacks.

But in reality, luck is a very small factor if you have a well built Ice Tank. You have enough life as any tanker that nothing short of an extremely powerful elite boss is ever going to two shot you even without your defence. You also have a very good self-heal power, and from level 32 onwards you have Hibernate which gives you total immunity from all effects (like a phase) for 30 seconds and will alow you to recover both health and stamina to full from empty in that time. This recharges very very fast.

An Ice Tanker who dies once past lev 32 is usually due to having been forgetting to watch his life bars, or due to having too many powers queued for his Hibernate to activate at that last second he was leaving it until.

Most tanks are about taking a lot of hits and not taking much damage from them, though they'll still have to take any end-drains, acc debuffs, slows or whatever are secondary effects of those hits.

The Ice Tank is different. Ice Armour is all about not getting hit at all.

You have very high defence that means most foes will miss 9 or ten times in a row.
You have slowing aura, that means that it will take them a lot longer than usual to get those 9 or 10 attacks fired anyway.
Your armour is actually giving a decent damage debuff on all enemies it affects, meaning not only do you have damage resistance in effect, but so does your entire team if you are holding agro effectively.
You have a nice endurance drain AoE that takes away their energy for doing their bigger attacks.
Finally, you have your Hibernate power which prevents any effect at all from affecting you, and lasts 30 seconds, with a pretty impressive recharge. In a protracted fight, you could practically even spend 1/3rd of your time utterly invulnerable to anything at all.

An Ice Tank does not need luck to outlast pretty much any other tanker in long-term fighting. The only luck he needs is to get the damage-taking badges, because Ice Tanks really struggle to earn those.

Sometimes all the stuff of being passed from contact to contact makes me feel like I'm trying to score a hit or something. Still, it does pay off too.

I get to hear about a guy called Sanjay I should talk to in Skyway. He arranges to meet me outside the rail station. When I get there, he tells me about something I know is going to interest Bastinado.

Seems there's a warehouse in Kings Row with some strange activity we'll be interested in. People keep coming and going, but what's special is that the people going seem bigger and tougher than they were on the way in. For people to report that, it has to be a really noticeable difference.

More curious still, the warehouse seems to be used by a homeless guy nicknamed Unlucky Pete. How does a homeless guy get a warehouse? And if he has a warehouse, why's he homeless?

When I passed my info to Bastinado he was as interested as I'd expected. He may not be about to win medals for charm, but the guy has a sharp mind alright. The situation smelt fishy, and Bastinado wanted us to follow our noses.

As soon as we slipped inside the place, we knew we were onto something. A mob of guards near the doors were the same type of huge mutants that we'd seen patrolling the entrance to the cave of those cult guys last week.

They call themselves 'The Lost', and almost all of them are mutated to some degree. Not just in the physical sense either. They had monstrous guys displaying the same kind of powers as Psyte has. They also had some seriously advanced tech, particularly the weapons they had.

Homeless guys, with a huge warehouse, lots of mutations, and some very very advanced weapons just doesn't make sense. Noone raids bins to eat if they have a million-dollar super-rifle in their possession, surely?

These guys were tough and well armed. Certainly our toughest challenge yet, and we got beaten back a few times. Each time though we all picked ourselves back up, and focused all the harder on taking the place apart to find what we needed. We all felt this was a strong lead. I mean, advanced tech and mutations plus secrecy?

Eventually we'd beaten down all resistance, and taken all of The Lost into custody. We also recovered a pretty expensive laptop. The guys have resolved to strip all the data off it and gather all info possible.

Cassidy came with us tonight and was an absolute star. I think the chance to get into a fight that was in a good cause was great for her. She's a very strong fighter, and very skilled. I was so proud of her.

We all bumped into Carl, (GoodGuy), as we were debriefing by Blue Steel. He offered to help me get info on Hyperion Star. Said he knew a historian in Faultline who was great at uncovering info on heroes that others had forgotten about.

Just as well, because all my initial requests through my contacts at Hero Corps and the PPD came up a blank. No records of Hyperion Star.

We got some terrible news today from Bastinado regarding Johnny's absence. Johnny is presumed dead - his gauntlets were found. I don't know the details, and don't want to know, but however they found those gauntlets made Bastinado certain Johnny was gone.

Marina will probably be devastated, but she's not returned yet from going to look for another missing member of the team. I'll have to phone her and break the news gently. Bastinado would be about as subtle as a brick.

I don't think Bast even noticed that Marina was keen on Johnny. He doesn't seem too interested in personal relationships - either in others or his own.

I'd suggest building up a set of files at the Hyperion Forum that Gorbaz set up.

Not only should this include an official file on each member character, but should also expand to cover known facts about both friends and foes, individual and group.

This can help create a 'common knowledge' for players within the SG, and allow for easy reference, as well as being a reminder of what we know (and don't know) about various things with these characters.

Suzanne Louisa White was born in Paragon City in 1980. Her father, Martin White, was a professional club singer who never had a record deal. Suzi's mother, Amanda White (nee Johnson), worked mainly in the service industry. Suzi had a single brother, Julian Vernon White, six years her junior, who died of an illness in 1991.

Amanda White suffered severe depression after the death of 4 year old Julian. In 1995 Amanda White was killed in a car crash. She had been drinking, and there were always rumours that her death may not have been entirely accidental.

Teenage Suzi became quite withdrawn at school, and took on extra responsibility at home to help her father cope. The relationship between Suzi and her father was very strong and close. Although Suzi was described as exceptionally bright, and her school grades were excellent, she did not stick at college and dropped out after 1 year.

Suzi regularly went to watch her father perform in clubs around the state. It was not a surprise to anyone that knew the family that she became a singer too.

Suzi's father died in 2001 of lung cancer, which many attribute to a lifetime spent singing in smokey clubs. Suzi, now without any family, threw herself all the harder into her work, becoming a very popular singer in the club circuit, an accomplished songwriter, and forming up with a band thereafter.

Her band, Gothic Overtones, got a record deal early in 2002, and produced 3 albums. Many compare their musical style to Evanescence, mainly for combining strong rock melodies with beautiful and haunting etherial vocals.

Suzi White's contract with label Surgin' Records expired 2 days before her apparent death in the hospital. Contract negotiations had been ongoing for some months prior to this, but there were apparently arguments over the conditions, where Suzi wished to retain artistic control over the material the band would perform, while management at Surgin' Records felt the band would be far more commercially successful if they used a team of writers and produced more mainstream and popular songs.

Suzi was believed to have died on the night of the incident. Medics had taken Ms White from her home after she suffered an extreme overdose of drugs. Her heart had ceased beating in the ambulance on route to hospital. A suicide note left in Suzi's appartment satisfied police that this was a case of depression-related suicide.

((If wanting to learn more about her character than most would know, please feel free to PM me regarding who you want to speak with about Suzi, and how you'll approach them, e.g. tracking down ex-bandmembers, roadies, teachers, or whatever.))

Another vote for Hasten.

As a very oversimplified generalisation, if you haven't taken Tough by level 30, you didn't need it anyway.

How many slots do you have available too, because it is pointless us recommending a power that should have 4 slots if you've only got a couple available due to other powers' needs?

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I have never, ever come across a tank that can keep aggro off me as a WS with just attacks and auras, never

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One word: Knockbacks.

Even with taunts, trying to aim the cone of a taunt to hit the mob you just scattered in every direction of the compass is not guaranteed or easy.

The tank isn't playing to your strengths unless he has taunt? Maybe.

You aren't playing to his/her strenths by your knockbacks continually throwing foes out of his/her agro aura? Definitely.

All of my tanks take taunt. But I still hate teaming with (most) energy blasters because they are continually making my job far harder, and the team as a whole often does better without them.

Most PBs and WSs have enough game experience to know what they are risking with knockbacks, and have the skill to compensate, and the understanding not to whinge if they miscalculate. Not all however. Some think it is all down to the tank to do the impossible because they have no idea how to work with tanks effectively.

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3 accs in jab Ammon? = que?

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Because every miss is a lost gauntlet taunt, and jab is never really useful for much but its fast recharge for gauntlet building.

All my characters tend to end up in large teams, and usually fighting at least +2 level mobs as a matter of course, and often +3 or +4. I always make very team-oriented builds (since I find soloing misses the whole point of a MMO game) and so find I get a lot of repeat invites to team.

When taunting CoT mobs, you will find yourself the target of every acc debuff in the mob. Without that 3rd accuracy slot, you will only hit a thing if you have a defender with Tactics, or 2 or more other ATs with Tactics on the team, unless you continually gobble up Acc insps.

I know it isn't the rule of the masses, and that many players will even only take one acc slot on a power, but you'd be surprised how often that 3rd acc slot is a salvation, either to you being able to hit anything with at least one power, or to the entire team because you can better control aggro with gauntlet.

Seriously, try it out on the fastest recharge power on one of your own for a day, and I think you'll realise the unexpected difference it makes, and never look back.

In addition to that, I like to have all of my toons at least capable of basic PvP if they must. Again, that third Acc slot is a godsend in such cases, especially when trying to hit the Stalker with Ninjitsu, or SR.

Helps a lot versus Paragon protectors when they activate FoN or MoG too.

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(( Please tell me you weren't thinking and that really IKEA hasn't penetrated North America. ))

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((Guess you've never watched the movie "Fight Club" then. ))

I would definitely recommend taking tough rather than resist physical, as it is more than twice the resistance.

Since a tanker is almost always fighting higher level mobs, I also will always choose to slot more than one accuracy enhance. In fact, for holding gauntlet, it may even be worth slotting three acc enhances in jab, just to help hold that agro.

Once you have both Rage and Focused Accuracy available to you, however, it should be quite feasible to swap the second acc enhancement in each of the attacks that have 2, and take a 3rd damage enhance instead where only 2 have been listed.

Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) - Temp Invulnerability - EndRdx DmgRes DmgRes DmgRes
01) - Jab - Acc Acc Acc
02) - Dull Pain - Heal Rechg Rechg Heal Rechg EndRdx
04) - Haymaker - Acc Acc EndRdx Dmg Dmg
06) - Resist Elements - DmgRes DmgRes
08) - Unyielding - DmgRes DmgRes Rechg DmgRes EndRdx
10) - Air Superiority - Acc Acc EndRdx Dmg Dmg
12) - Swift - Run
14) - Fly - EndRdx Fly
16) - Health - Heal Heal Heal
18) - Invincibility - DefBuf DefBuf Rechg DefBuf Taunt
20) - Stamina - EndMod EndMod EndMod
22) - Knockout Blow - Acc Acc Dmg Dmg EndRdx Rechg
24) - Taunt - Rechg Taunt Taunt
26) - Tough Hide - DefBuf DefBuf
28) - Rage - Rechg Rechg TH_Buf TH_Buf Rechg
30) - Boxing - Acc
32) - Unstoppable - DmgRes Rechg Rechg EndMod Rechg DmgRes
35) - Tough - EndRdx DmgRes DmgRes EndRdx
38) - Foot Stomp - Acc Dmg Dmg EndRdx Acc Rechg
41) - Focused Accuracy - EndRdx EndRdx TH_Buf EndRdx TH_Buf
44) - Conserve Power - Rechg Rechg Rechg
47) - Resist Energies - DmgRes DmgRes
49) - Hurl - Acc Dmg Dmg Dmg

Personally, I prefer not to take fly on a tanker, as CJ is far more useful in combat situations, and SJ is a far more versatile travel power which lets you put slots in more important powers. However, knowing your concept, it is pretty essential in your build. Having Air Supremacy is also very useful on a tanker, so it is still a good build on those grounds.

I thought Ghost Rider had been dead all along...

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once you play ice its hard to go back to other tanks...

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I'll agree with that.

However, we should also look at what the secondaries do to affect the precise role of the tanker in question.

Super Strength is one of the most aggressive in terms of putting a single target down fast. SS comes with very good recharge times compared to the some others, but of course, those faster recharges can also make it very demanding on endurance in protracted battles. SS has a lot of knockbacks though, so may actually diminish the ability to hold taunt, as it continually bats targets out of any taunt auras the tank may have.

Personally, I tend to view Super Strength as one of the better attack sets for tanks who solo a lot, and one of the weaker for those who are going to herd for a team.

Energy Melee is widely considered one of most powerful secondaries availabe, and is especially favoured for PvP builds. The lowest attack in the set has a very fast recharge, so while it does only comparatively tiny damage, it is very good at helping to hold aggro under Gauntlet. The massive power of the mightiest attacks really don't need to be mentioned. The fact that energy attacks cause disorientation can reduce the ability of targets to fight back, making this an excellent all round choice.

Fiery Melee is the other secondary choice that is extremely aggressive, having some truly superb damage available for relatively little endurance costs. Especially in PvE, for average use I rate Fire as the most damaging melee type in most situations, especially in protracted fighting. This is the set I most recommend for soloing, (unless you expect to PvP a lot), as it seriously improves the speed at which you can defeat mobs.

Ice Melee is like the Ice Armours, all about damage limitation. Each attack slows the rate of recharge on targets, and with Ice Patch to make average mobs breakdance harmlessly around you, and a decent hold attack, this set is superb for anyone who really wants to be nearly unkillable in PvE, and still a reasonably frightening foe in PvP.

This is an attack set that really, really, helps your defence like you'd not believe. However, it is one of the least damaging in many ways, and I personally find Ice Melee one of the slowest to kill mobs with, so it can be a poor choice indeed for solo players.

Stone Melee is pretty awesome in its powers, but its real weakness, just like with Stone Armours, is in the recharge times. However, the damage can be superb, and this has a lot of damage mitigations too in the mass knockback and in the mass disorient attacks.

You would be amazed at how awesome an Ice Armour/Stone Melee Tank can be at going into fights and never getting successfuly hit even once. Stone Melee is (IMO) the second-most defensive melee choice, but is also capable of some massive attacks, so one of the best all round, especially if you think you'll often get speed buffs, or are taking hasten in your build.


The choice of melee type will affect your optimal roles almost as much as your primary armour choices, so do choose carefully based on what role you most enjoy taking, and how important it will be for you to dish out reasonable damage, compared to just how indestructable you wish to be.

On my part, great kudos to you for the clarifications.

Your description of the Scotbot reminds me a lot of Djinn and other wish-granting entities from old AD&D games, etc. You may get what you asked for, but usually in such a twisted fashion that it is better not to ask at all.

A few examples might be to wish for great wealth, and find yourself loaded with valuables - such as the Crown Jewells, very very hard to fence, and making you the most wanted thief in th world; or to wish someone were dead and find oneself transported to the future, after the person has died of old age; etc.

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Tanking isn't flashy, it isn't galmorous and people will rarely thank you for your "good tanking", but that doesn't make it any less important or rewarding.

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I'm surprised to hear you say that, because I think good tanking is almost always noticed and praised. That has certainly been my experience on both Union and Defiant.

However, the really great tankers are a varied lot. Not all great tankers are great team tankers, some are more along the lines of being indestructable, but not able to hold agro as well as the team would like.

Invulnerability tends to suffer this most, because it doesn't have quite the level of taunting auras as some other sets, and really has to rely only on the taunt power itself to hold the attention of more than about 8 enemies.

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Each armor set has strong points, but more important, his weak points.

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Absolutely true, but as the OP said, just how much of a strength or weakness any given armour set may have also depends on the build/style of tanker you are going for.

The invulnerability set is one of the strongest, for instance, if well slotted, for sheer ability to take tons of damage and keep right on going. This can be one of the best armours for players who play solo a lot. However, Invulnerability doesn't have a damage aura like some other sets, and is generally the least capable of real herding unless a lot of taunt duration modifiers are slotted where other enhancements might be better.

Fiery Armour is one of the best solo armours for its extra damage, its great healing, and its superb endurance drains, which collectively mean you can get through missions much faster than most tankers. But without a doubt the Fiery Armour build has the least damage mitigation, and will heavily depend on a lot of use of the Healing Flames if big mobs, or especially powerful mobs, are to be encountered.

Stone Armour is probably the all round most personally powerful defence set, but because granite armour massively debuffs the speed and attack power of the tanker, these tankers are often the most buff-dependant to get around the disadvantages of their incredible armour.

Stone tanks do tend to be great team tanks, able to hold agro well with taunt and mudpots, but really do need those buffs or they chug along very slowly indeed.

Ice Armour is my personal favourite as the ultimate 'team tanker' armour set. Only the Ice Tank reduces damage taken by the entire team, because chilling embrace lowers the actual damage dealing of all foes it affects around the tank.

With Chilling Embrace, Icicles, and Taunt, no other armour set has quite as much potential to hold agro. Not only is the Ice tank not slowed by his best shields like a Stone Tank is, he is actually resistant to speed debuffs, and so generally laughs at quicksand, caltrops, web grenades, etc. running happily right through them to smite the foe.

However, because Ice Armour is the one almost entirely defence-based set, rather than based mostly on damage-resistances, high-accuracy enemies may just tear right through the defence, unless you get some buffs.

Sheesh, so many posts!

Will try to answer what I can, but please bear with me, as I'm on the game to play my own character, a Player Character named Suzi White, AKA White Vampyr, and she is not an NPC. I'm not going to spend my entire gaming time on everyone else characters, except where it directly affects Suzi, IC.

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As I see it, we were presented with a petition, which we were told was being distributed in the original post. Therefore, using ONLY the IC knowledge from that original post, it is wholly reasonable to assume proper distrubution and collection channels, and that's the way all the IC posts have handled it as far as I can tell.

Yes, the petitioner NPC's are created by the individual writer, BUT once the petition is signed, I and I presume all the other contributors have made the totally valid assumption that the signature is passed up to the organisers, and therefore become the OP's responsibility to deal with.

I do not see this as an unreasonable assumption; Ammon started this plot off, it's now Ammon's job to deal with the signatures, including the complete list provided by the Scotbot, that have been handed to him. It's not our job to RP the handing over of the signatures, as the OP made it clear the petition was being distributed in an organised fashion. All we needed to do was to sign, or not sign; and the rest is up to Ammon. Like it or not, this is HIS plot, and this makes him the GM for it, whether he wants to be or not.

Now it seems that this reasonable assumption is wrong, there are no official distrubution or collection channels; the whole thing therefore comes across as a pointless exercise and has resulted in one of the earliest public RPers in CoH withdrawing from roleplay entirely, due to frustration caused by this petition.

If Ammon doesn't want to accept the responsibility of GMing a plot HE created, then there's no point at all in playing it out and people are likely to just ignore the whole thing and retcon it out of their characters.

Originally posted by FFM

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A lot of things there.

Okay, lets start at the beginning, the assumption of information beyond that given. Reasonable assumptions can differ, because people's life experiences differ. For example, for a lot of British people, they reasonably assume that America, being such a rich country, has a Welfare State that is as advanced and supportive as our own. The reality is rather different. Reasonable assumptions are not always going to be correct, because they are based on your personal experience, not that of the person or dituation you are making assumptions about.

There is an excellent reason why Zortel's RP guide was stickied. It is a darn good guide. The very first point of all the tips provided is: If in doubt, ask..

Anytime you must make an assumption, there is a level of doubt, and it is easily remedied with a brief PM or OOC question.

I too made a wrongful assumption in thinking the story-line, which is really only a hook for others, would only get a very few responses, and thus didn't need a huge amount of OOC background. I honestly only really expected the players I'd interacted with IC as Suzi to pick up the idea and run with it.

I've acknowledged the error of that assumption several times, the most obvious being in the Opening Post of this thread.

It is a collaborative story. It does absolutely depend on people being generous to other players (not charcaters), and so requires a level of maturity that I felt this community has. In the main, I've found that to be perfectly true, and the vast majority of respondants have been able to creatively add their own interactions and storylines from the hook provided, and have those actions incorporated into the responses of others, and thus the overall storyline.

As shown time and again, the idea has drawn in some quite new RPers, and I for one am more delighted about that than anything else. If a plot draws in new RPers, it makes the RP opportunities richer for us all henceforth.

What seems a little odd is that it isn't the newer roleplayers having any trouble adjusting to freeform RP, but mainly the older players, who've perhaps got a bit more set in there ways about how a RP session must run.

Again, if in doubt, ask.

Another very important tip from the Stickied RP guide is number 13 on the list:
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13: I'm not comfortable with what's happening.

Sometimes things come up in RP that may disturb a player. If your character is not involved, then moving out of earshot or using /ignore charactername can help. If your character is involved, then a polite tell to the person running the plot or the others involved can really help, they can figure out something to remove you from the source of the uncomfortableness.

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That's not only a rule to apply to topics that cause distress, but also the RP situation itself. If you are not comfortable with freeform RP, or uncomfortable with the limits or parameters being applied, there should be nothing forcing you to be involved, and always feel free to step away.

Things RP'd in public may be joined in by other characters around. In this way, Kelvinbridge deciding to post an IC article that attacked the petition was entirely reasonable. Likewise, other characters responding to that article, with follow-up news stories and IC actions are perfectly reasonable. Kelvinbridge does not become the GM of the entire story at that point, obviously, but one of the collaborative players.

His news article, just like the original petition are things that you can choose to respond to, or to ignore, depending on whether you want a character to participate or not in the collaborative storyline. The same level of consideration and ownership really applies to both - both things were given to the community to play with collaboratively for shared RP enjoyment.

The Scotbot situation was not expected of course. Kelvinbridge stated elsewhere in his posts that he disliked the entire storyline and wanted to see it die, so the production of a printout of the signatures of every hero registered in the city was a pretty obvious attempt to close the discussion, all signatures gained - story over.

However, reading that post you can see the NPC hero who gained these was unsure and uncomfortable with the signatures gained in this way, especially since it was clear that the Scotbot did not understand the meaning of the signatures in the context (thought they were going on sale on eBay IIRC). Whether the hero handed them in to whoever he'd goten the petition from (which if it were Suzi would mean waiting for her to reappear) or decided they were unusable is one of those situations where Kelvinbridge would need to be asked.

Assuming those signatures were handed over, then we have the Character they are handed to having to decide if they are usable. (Suzi would ask that they be returned to the Scotbot if it were her, but would likely also get in touch with her PPD contacts about possible fraud, and a super-powered entity dangerously giving away perfectly forged signatures without knowing to whom or for what).

Complicated? Can be - the more people get involved, the more complex and intricate the game situation, which is why freeform is really the only style for this, sharing responsibility for actions and reactions among all, rather than trying to place it all on one player.

Of course, there is wonderful advice in the stickied RP guide that again should be required reading for all. Someone called FloatingFatMan (that name seems familiar) wrote there:
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Creating such a stupidly powerful character as a god or similar is also not the best of ideas. Other players are very unlikely to accept your view of your characters omnipotence and could easily just ignore you, or worse, ridicule you either IC or OOC. (I learned this the hard way!).

Plus, if you do have such a powerful character, you'll find people won't want to involve you in plots as you can fix whatever the problem is with a wave of your godlike powers... This makes RP a lot less fun.

So generally, it's better to play your characters at a more "human" power level.

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A robot that can create anything at all at will or on command using improbability meachanics is certainly a ridiculously overpowered character that a great many RPers might well ignore.

As the wise man said: "it is better to play characters at a more human or reasonable level". Personally, I'd pretty much ignored the Scotbot, as the character is frankly banale, and even if the character had to be accepted rather than ignored (remember point 13), Suzi would have scrapped the unusable signatures anyway.

Its a great guide.

I have to admit though, that I'd be unwilling to GM any storyline unless I knew all of the characters involved first, and we had a common agreement on what kind of powers were reasonable.

I loathe and detest god-level characters, as they are almost always boring, and require plot devices that for me, completely lose the suspension of disbelief. So to have a GM'd session where some of the players want to be more powerful than the GM themselves is both pointless and unenjoyable.

All of the best GM lead roleplay I have seen has been where the characters were created specifically for the over-arcing storyline and gameworld. In every case of 'poor gaming experience' there has been a character brought in from some other game with other rules, and thus is built to an entirely different game universe to the one of the session.

That's why so far all the GM lead roleplay I've been willing to engage in on COH is with new groups, built around and within pre-defined game limits.

However, where players are generous and game-spirited, freeform RP does not need a GM at all, as all things are decided collaboratively between the two sides involved. Just like in saying (I swing at CharacterX, rather than I hit CharacterX, allowing the other player(s) freedom to decide what happens at their end).

Freeform does not suit all players, and anyone who tends to have characters who need uber-powers should probably avoid it, as this is not a play style for people who have a need to have 'winners' or 'losers' - its more about the experience and shared self-development.

So far I have been told I can't write, that English doesn't seem to be my first language, that I'm doing it all wrong, and that I must be [censored] at my job as a marketer, yet somehow I'm the one being told I may have seemed insulting?

Let's try to live and let live, please.


1. Original topic said petition 'was being circulated'. Circulation could have been by White herself, anyone that wanted to join in, or whatever NPCs players need to use to involve themselves. It was not dictated because this is freeform. You make this part up so that you can 'opt in' by your own creation. I'd thought everyone did so admirably until someone now wants to know how a character they created discovered where they live... er, how the heck would I know, they are your invention.

As it turned out, only one or two characters decided that the petition came to them via White. Others invented their own NPCs who were involved. If those people didn't invent how that NPC was involved, that's hardly my fault or problem, unless you have sent me PMs I have ignored.

2. The petition was as seen. That is, no official backing, just one heroine trying to make a difference where she saw too much media focus given only to costumed heroes.

3. Anyone bothering to research the matter can easily discover that White did ask for help from two other heroes prior to writing the petition, particularly in running it past PR and legal experts. This was via public IC roleplay in Pocket D.

Those two characters (Britanic and Crimson Archer) have both made IC posts elsewhere mentioning this, which I why I repeat it here. After 2 days had passed without either character getting back to her about it, well she didn't want to press them on something they were volunteering to do, but Suzi doesn't know how much time she has. All of the Hyperion Watchmen are believed to be under threat of random death due to the powers they gained being unstable, and able to kill the possessor.

So yes, impulsive, rash, and not thought through. Yes, passionate rather than logical. And yes, for this to be freeform, I could not dictate how other characters got involved without that in itself dramatically limiting those who could get involved.

But if you don't like how you wrote yourself into the plot, I really can't accept blame for that unless you PM'd me and I gave wrongful infomation OOC. IC posts can be false, misleading, etc.

That's my last OOC post discussing me and my motives or abilities as a player on this topic because simply put, the player should be irrelevant.

What is relevant is to use this thread if necessary to clear up any questions where my knowledge of original IC events is needed. E.g. if someone were trying to discover the origins and motives of the petition and asked on of the pocket D barstaff what they may have overheard, or who has been seen talking to White, etc.

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I'm tired of labouring this point... Getting patronised doesn't help my mood. If you can't grasp the concept of what effect a known villain signing the petition would have on the Public's perception of the petition, I seriously hope that you don't work in public relations or marketing.

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Well, actually I do, so this kind of personal insult really isn't that helpful or constructive.

I know quite a few RP thorns dominators that are political activists - extreme Greenpeace worker types. I have a character who was in the Zig for a minor crime, but was placed there because he happened to have super-powers. I also know several RP villains who are more heroic in mindset than many of the heroes, they just got a bad break sometime in the past, or see the best place to fight crime being where it is most plentiful.

I'm saying that trying to exclude other players you don't know is not in the spirit of good gamesmanship for any game. In a RP game, it comes a little close to god-modding to decide all by yourself what repurcussions someone elses actions will have for anyone but you.

If it stops your character supporting the petition, that's roleplay. To say it negates the petition is god-modding.