Skyfall *HUGE SPOILER ALERT*
Personally I loved the movie. He was a very human Bond, well as human someone could be for someone who was shot off a moving train and fell into a river 100ft below and then washed over a waterfall.
I enjoyed the villain (he "threw" a subway train at Bond). The Bond girl wasn't all that memorable, she just added local color. And I enjoyed all the throwbacks to the older Connery Bond films from the car to the "original" office of M at the end.
Yes, I'm old and nostalgic and the whole old guard Vs new guard theme that ran through the movie struck a positive chord with me as I see this every day. Which is why Q represented the arrogant attitude I see from new college grads who think they know more than those with 20 years on them, only to get outsmarted by an "old man" who played on that arrogance.
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I enjoyed the movie a lot, but it dawned on me well after the fact - the bad guy won.
I'm not sure if I like that or not.
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I enjoyed the movie a lot, but it dawned on me well after the fact - the bad guy won.
I'm not sure if I like that or not. |
I liked this movie a lot, but the sentiment M had during the hearings when she said that the enemy is no longer a known quantity is what makes a Bond story in our present a tough sell. It's not about Russians or Chinese or central American dictators. The enemy is a shadow, and can strike from anywhere, and no longer follows the rules we've become accustomed to. It's hard to invent enemies and scenarios that aren't outdated, because Bond sprang from the Cold War (and the remnants of WWII). I liked the struggle Bond had with the past, both physically and mentally.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
I liked the movie but still like Casino Royale as the best of the "new" Bond Daniel Craig movies.
Probably because Eva Green was in it.....
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I was into it up until near the end. But then... then Bond and M arrive at Skyfall and the production switches from James Bond to the A-Team. There's a montage sequence of them rigging up all sorts of cockeyed booby traps... okay, fine. But Kincaid... sawing off the end of that shot gun. And while indoors, with no hearing protection, turn and fires the shotgun... INDOORS... at the the side of the building, punching a basket-ball sized hole.
WHAT? Why would you ever, ever do such a thing? I really want to see the directors cut where Bond clutches his ears for five minutes and then demands an accounting from Kincaid. That might be the stupidest use of a firearm in any A-list movie from the past ten years. Monumental.
Firing a shotgun indoors. Destroying a wall. "Hey James, it worked!" How is Skyfall still standing with that dotty old man running it?
ARRRRGH.
BOOM... "Hey James, I can see out the wall!"
*head desk*
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Very much enjoyed it - gave everyone a much wider range of characterisation than your typical Bond. And much as I'll miss the mighty Dame Judi, she is now having trouble reading scripts - so this is her last major role, and what a great send-off.
(Y'all did read the spoiler warnings, didn't you?)
As for Pebble's comment, M hung on just long enough to deny Silva the success he craved, so that's a victory. But in the words of Wellington, "God save us from all such victories..." First time I've ever cried at a Bond film.
Oddly enough, Bond is more relevant than ever precisely because our enemies are no longer arrayed in straight lines. The Bond-staple warlords, mega-criminals and conspiracist corporate zaibatsus, uncontrolled by government, now exist in plain sight. Hell, America nearly elected one a couple of weeks ago, although most Bond villains are more convincingly scripted.
As for terrifying machines of death: the end of the Cold War and the abandonment of large parts of the Soviet military machine have left plenty of interesting odds and ends kicking about. Maybe nothing as sexy as a giant orbital laaaaaser, but a nuclear demolition charge ("satchel bomb", even though they're rather bigger) left in the right place at the right time would be rather more effective. Even stuff like the nuclear batteries used to power tower lights in the old USSR have been found with smugglers, presumably for dirty bombs. Dead is still dead, no matter how unglamourously it happens.
These aren't the kind of threats you can send an army against, except as a deterrent. Intel, infiltration and small-team strikes are the way forward. Precisely what the world of Bond has always been about.
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
...this super genius decides the way to crack into a hackers computer to see if the stolen data is in it, is to hook it not once
but twice with double Ethernet connections to the entire frigging MI5 network!!!
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I forgot the name for this trope but the villain had the entire thing perfectly planned to the minute! Absolutely everything he did was perfectly choreographed! From being captured, being taken to MI5, this moron geek plugging the computer into the network at an exact time [insert list of ridiculous things].... |
Now to the final thing I hated about the movie: the entire villains plot. His entire goal, apparently, was to kill M. That was all he wanted. |
Did he seriously use 2 ethernet connections? I didn't notice that. If so, I think that should be turned into a new meme. DOUBLE ETHERNET CORDS!! WHAT DOES IT MEAN!?
The extremely over-planned escape was just too much for me to suspend belief for. And I readily suspended it when Bond used a crane to catch up with the villain on the train! Really... Bond had to be just the right distance behind him for his train-bomb trap to work. Not to mention, the timing of the train itself! Can you imagine what the planning looked like?
"Let's see... the 2:15 train should be coming through this section of the escape route. Looks like if I time it right, I'll have just enough time to say something witty... OOOH! I know, I'll mention something about radio! Oh god, what if the agent I get to catch me mentions something about using radio before hand? The irony would be delicious!! THIS PLAN CAN'T FAIL!"
All this power at the villains hands, and the best he can come up with is revenge killing? He's obviously a mastermind of epic proportions and the furthest he can take it is killing one person. Isn't a more sadistic, and more evil revenge to make the person you hate live in their own personal hell? Cause MI6 to close, rob M of all her achievements and THEN kill her. Or make her live on in misery. The problem is, I couldn't see this villain having a goal once M was dead. For all his foresight, he lacked any true vision.
And now that the A-Team comparison has been made, I'm going to add that to the list. It hadn't occurred to me before, but now that makes complete sense to me.
I'll admit, the movie did provide some entertainment. The intro scene was top notch. And the action was at least fun, if not easy to buy. Still, I would recommend renting it to anyone who hasn't seen it. It's not worth matinee.
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the thing that really annoys me is the fact that this super genius decides the way to crack into a hackers computer to see if the stolen data is in it, is to hook it not once
but twice with double Ethernet connections to the entire frigging MI5 network!!! This hacker already demonstrated he was able to hack the MI5 network with a click of a button
and this super genius decides to physically plug his computer into the network!!! This is beyond non-computer people
this is just stupid 101!!!
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Fridge logic counterpoint: the data was useless without its running ecosystem, and so Q plugged the computer into a safe DMZ *physically* at Mi6 but *outside* the network and allowed it to run, hoping that an analysis of the running computer would give them more information. The laptop didn't hack Mi6 from *inside* the network, it actually hacked Mi6 from *outside* the network using backdoors that were planted long ago. The same sort of backdoors the villain had already demonstrated being able to place within Mi6.
I forgot the name for this trope but the villain had the entire thing perfectly planned to the minute! Absolutely everything he did was perfectly choreographed! From being captured, being taken to MI5, this moron geek plugging the computer into the network at an exact time, all doors in the building opening up, escaping through the subway, meeting with 2 cop dressed assistants carrying a bomb, having Bond follow him all the way to a big chamber where he planted said bomb, detonating the bomb, and having a train come out of the hole created by the bomb, then getting out of the subway and meeting again other cops, getting to Ms inquiry with the minister and there attempt to kill her. In fact, the only thing apparently he did not count on was an additional guy jumping in the way of the shot. |
Consider: how long did Q spend analyzing the villain's computer? How long did the computer wait before triggering its payload? Why didn't it trigger instantly? Perhaps it was waiting for a specific moment in time.
And this will touch on a later point, but the villain's goal was to embarrass M, not merely kill her. He wanted it to look like every move they made he had already accounted for. That's what narcissists do. But what if Q decided to not touch the laptop at all? Then I'll bet the villain had a failsafe that would have triggered everything anyway, with or without it. The laptop was the primary; the secondary was probably somewhere else completely safe.
The bomb was an obvious diversion, but the notion that it required perfect timing fails to account for the fact that trains probably pass that spot every few minutes. The villain probably just knew the schedule.
The villain's plan is much like the plans I make when I perform a major project. My plan is full of contingencies, cut-outs, secondary options, and synchronization points. Every single one of those projects has had wild and crazy things go wrong that I had to react to. But looking in from the outside, it can look like everything was *intended* to happen in just that way, making it seem like magic. You just don't get to see all the contingencies that aren't executed.
Now to the final thing I hated about the movie: the entire villains plot. His entire goal, apparently, was to kill M. That was all he wanted. |
His plan was to bring down Mi6 all around her, get people to distrust and question her, and at that moment of weakness kill her. And its important to note the plan *didn't* work because he fails to kill her at that moment. So he had to improvise. But that presumes every single thing that happened before was rigorously scripted, and he only had to improvise at that moment. He could have been both planning and improvising from the start. He couldn't have known Bond would be after him and arrive at the island that moment, but if he hadn't he would have simply done something else. And he obviously had a lot of time to prepare for Bond's arrival, because the boat crew were obviously in his employ. The plan could have shifted at that moment, we just didn't see that happen.
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Pedestrian point: you don't even turn on computers you're trying to recover data from.
Fridge logic counterpoint: the data was useless without its running ecosystem, and so Q plugged the computer into a safe DMZ *physically* at Mi6 but *outside* the network and allowed it to run, hoping that an analysis of the running computer would give them more information. The laptop didn't hack Mi6 from *inside* the network, it actually hacked Mi6 from *outside* the network using backdoors that were planted long ago. The same sort of backdoors the villain had already demonstrated being able to place within Mi6. |
This is also the objection to the Joker's plan in The Dark Knight, but it fails to account for the fact that it presumes the way it happened was the only way it *could* have happened. Its a one in a million that you win the lottery, but *someone* does. The plan the villain put into motion had to generate *some* result, but in hindsight almost all results look unlikely. And the limits of making a visual story amplify this. |
But what if Q decided to not touch the laptop at all? Then I'll bet the villain had a failsafe that would have triggered everything anyway, with or without it. The laptop was the primary; the secondary was probably somewhere else completely safe. |
The bomb was an obvious diversion, but the notion that it required perfect timing fails to account for the fact that trains probably pass that spot every few minutes. The villain probably just knew the schedule. |
It clearly wasn't. It was to confront and embarrass M; if he wanted to kill her he could have just blown up her house. This is the complaint I've read in many reviews I least understand. |
1) I should have said his ultimate goal. I did realize he wanted to discredit her first.
2) My point grudge is not against his ultimate goal, BUT that the guy that was doing so perfectly ended up not getting his trophy at the end. If he was meant to win, give him the whole trophy! Let him actually kill M, and commit suicide while at it (this leaves Bond with the frustration, anger and inability to seek any sort of vengeance.)
The bomb is a special thing that bothers me, for the bomb to work he had to have gone to that huge chamber, go up some ladder, get to the ceiling, set up the bomb, then go down the ladder again, and then run to the escape ladder where he would be caught and then he would use the bomb to get away.
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I want to clarify two things: 1) I should have said his ultimate goal. I did realize he wanted to discredit her first. 2) My point grudge is not against his ultimate goal, BUT that the guy that was doing so perfectly ended up not getting his trophy at the end. If he was meant to win, give him the whole trophy! Let him actually kill M, and commit suicide while at it (this leaves Bond with the frustration, anger and inability to seek any sort of vengeance.) |
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And this will touch on a later point, but the villain's goal was to embarrass M, not merely kill her. He wanted it to look like every move they made he had already accounted for. That's what narcissists do. But what if Q decided to not touch the laptop at all? Then I'll bet the villain had a failsafe that would have triggered everything anyway, with or without it. The laptop was the primary; the secondary was probably somewhere else completely safe.
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I get that this was all a master plan to humiliate M. I just would have expected a more impactful way of killing her off versus walk into a courtroom and shoot her.
At the very least, let her at least deal with the shame of knowing that he escaped, did even more damage, and THEN kill her.
But then, I'm also of the school that if you're going to do evil things, do it the most direct way.
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I get that this was all a master plan to humiliate M. I just would have expected a more impactful way of killing her off versus walk into a courtroom and shoot her.
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I like to think he didn't originally have an escape plan from that room and was playing it by ear from that moment on. I think what he really wanted was to end on a murder-suicide public spectacle that left the public wondering what the heck was going on at Mi6 all these years. To permanently stain Mi6 and the British intelligence community.
In other words, I think the bombing of Mi6 was in fact to get on CNN with Wolf Blitzer. That was explicitly part of what he was trying to achieve.
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You're simultaneously bothered by the fact that the villain executed a plan with superhuman precision, and also by the fact that the plan failed? |
The reason I don't like the use of the Xanatos Gambit (thanks BP for that name!) is that in a Bond film, I would have hoped for a smarter approach. A villain worth his place in a great thriller, the kind of things that only so lightly telegraph things to the audience and you suddenly realize "OH!" when they come to a closure.
I also don't have an issue with the plan failing, I have an issue that his final goal failed when they where going to get rid of the character anyways.
It was already decided that she was going to die. She was not going to do any more movies, and it was in the script that she would die. Make it count. Make people remember how this was the one guy that truly won. Still would have preferd a more thought through plan, but this would have redeemed the entire movie to me.
The desires are not mutually exclusive BUT either one on it's own would have improved everything drastically, although mostly M dying at the villain's hands.
I like to think he didn't originally have an escape plan from that room and was playing it by ear from that moment on.
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I think what he really wanted was to end on a murder-suicide public spectacle that left the public wondering what the heck was going on at Mi6 all these years. To permanently stain Mi6 and the British intelligence community. |
The character still was amazingly acted, but I would have liked if he had pulled the trigger in that bit.
I think I'd make a great villain.
I'd just go and knock off the Hero, and then use the $20B I DIDN'T spend manipulating the world for the past 10 years and spend it on a nice jacuzzi and some smoothies.
Yeah, overly complicating things is beautiful and it certainly helps with the Muwahahaha's. But it's so much work..... I'd rather solo grind Incarnate powers. (See what I did there?)
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This is why I both like and hate the Xanatos gambit. It's great when pulled off right. But when it collapses, it kind of doesn't make sense. I much prefer the enemy who is seemingly invincible, but has a plausible weakness (see the movie version of John Carter). |
It's still my second favorite Bond movie, though. (First is License to Kill.)
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Yeah, but this was a Roulette, not a Gambit. Which is pretty much par for the course in a Bond movie, thus why I'm willing to overlook it. I thought the similarities to the Dark Knight movies and the re-use of some tropes recently used in the franchise was a bigger problem.
It's still my second favorite Bond movie, though. (First is License to Kill.) |
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I think it's safe to say that just about every movie unravels when you over-analyze it. And let's be honest here: every James Bond movie has a sense of "over the top" impossibility that ultimately renders it implausible to some degree or another. No movie is absolutely plot-perfect.
When it comes to how I judge a movie it usually boils down to whether or not I start mentally nit-picking it WHILE I'm watching it or only AFTER it's over. If it's fun enough then I'll usually enjoy my time watching it and not consciously think about the impossibilities until it's done. For me this Bond film was good enough that I really didn't think about its shortcomings until it was over. To me that automatically makes it one of the better Bond films. Was it the best Bond film ever? No, I wouldn't say that. But it was certainly better than many of the other latter-day installments.
For me this Bond was very Nolan-esque "Batman versus Joker" oriented - right down to fight in Bond's version of Wayne Manor with his Scottish version of Alfred. They even drove home the point of Bond being an orphan and showing his parents' graves alluding indirectly to Bruce Wayne's origin story. Might not have been the most original plot idea for a Bond film, but it worked well enough for me.
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When it comes to how I judge a movie it usually boils down to whether or not I start mentally nit-picking it WHILE I'm watching it or only AFTER it's over. If it's fun enough then I'll usually enjoy my time watching it and not consciously think about the impossibilities until it's done.
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The Nolan batman crossed my mind but it didnt really bother me.
OK, this place is nearing the end but darn it Im going to take it back to its prime!!! Time for some movie ranting and spoiler threads!!!
THIS IS FULL OF SPOILERS!
SO!!! SKYFALL!!!
I . hated it. I know I am the minority but I did. There is a LOT to love about the movie, but there was so much wrong that *I* was not able to forgive.
First for the good sides:
Daniel Craig: Some hate him but this guy does an amazingly great bond, IMO.
Judi Dench: This was in the trailer, but take the shot! this woman was great.
Javier Bardem: he managed to make an extremely flamboyant criminal feel truthfully deadly and cold blooded. He did a magnificent job.
In addition the movie had a lot of good action scenes and excellent cinematography.
OK now for the bad things:
Naomie Harris: meh may be the script but she was forgettable. Not bad, simply.. meh.
Ben Whishaw: again may be the script but UGH I wanted to choke this guy in his own vomit. The character attempted to be arrogant but it was just cliché and monotonous.
Now for plot itself, and one last warning, this thing is going to be full of spoilers. I wont summarize the entire movie here, but I will cover the things that made me hate the movie.
Sub Plot about closing MI5: the entire movie drags an absurd plot that sort of pretends there is some very thick 4th wall, where the loss of some important data results in the minister inquiring even the requirement of the organization to exist. The entire inquiry scenes are full of absurdity, trying to solidify or break (cant decide what) the fourth wall by justifying why the agency even needs to exist. Again, its absurd and at the end its just turns out to be padding (they try to squeeze in some inspirational speech but I found it to not hit a single note.)
Q, as I noted above, Q is a very arrogant individual. I will forget about the fact that it just does not seem to do a good job at portraying it in any believable way. I will also forget about all the fake computing things because I accept that real computing is boring for non-computer people. However, I cant accept that it ends up being Bond that figures out the computer password and not Q, the supposed master hacker! Ah but if it was just this the thing that really annoys me is the fact that this super genius decides the way to crack into a hackers computer to see if the stolen data is in it, is to hook it not once but twice with double Ethernet connections to the entire frigging MI5 network!!! This hacker already demonstrated he was able to hack the MI5 network with a click of a button and this super genius decides to physically plug his computer into the network!!! This is beyond non-computer people this is just stupid 101!!!
I would be able to forgive the above if it was not because the ENTIRE movie from this point forward depends on this moron connecting the infected computer to the network ah and that brings me to my 4th complaint:
I forgot the name for this trope but the villain had the entire thing perfectly planned to the minute! Absolutely everything he did was perfectly choreographed! From being captured, being taken to MI5, this moron geek plugging the computer into the network at an exact time, all doors in the building opening up, escaping through the subway, meeting with 2 cop dressed assistants carrying a bomb, having Bond follow him all the way to a big chamber where he planted said bomb, detonating the bomb, and having a train come out of the hole created by the bomb, then getting out of the subway and meeting again other cops, getting to Ms inquiry with the minister and there attempt to kill her. In fact, the only thing apparently he did not count on was an additional guy jumping in the way of the shot.
Then there is Skyfall, the house where Bond grew up. Here is a scene that was not bad but it was far from bond. During this entire sequence they go over the house, they realize they only have one hunting rifle. So they must manage with a lot of household traps! The A Team montage follows. I mean, seriously, during the entire scheme I was not able to get The A Team theme music out of my head! They did all the cuts you would expect in the classic TV show until they finished rigging the perfect mouse trap. Again: not a bad scene off itself but this seemed to have been taken away from the script for The A Team 2.
Now to the final thing I hated about the movie: the entire villains plot. His entire goal, apparently, was to kill M. That was all he wanted. Thing is: he sort of succeeds. But no, he does not. Instead, mid action scene, they get M shot by some nameless minion. She does not die but starts bleeding badly. The bad guy comes to kill her near the end but Bond gets rid of him, stealing the victory away. M still dies, but due to a casual minions bullet and slow bleeding. My issue here is the movie could have redeemed itself drastically, and carried at least some brave punch, by allowing the bad guy to get away with his goal: let HIM kill M. You were going to kill her anyways, let that guy have it. Force Bond to endure the much tougher and sour taste of failure. But no that would have been too good. Got to make things tragic but not THAT tragic BAHRG
Anyways, its very likely you all loved the movie (since everyone seems to) but there, here is my rant!