This will mae my invuln and sr toons even tougher tha they curretly are. Hell, I may even make a shield toon.
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It's about time Badge Protection went away.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
the amazingly useful '2 percent debt protection'
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sounds like good stuff. although i hope it's bigger than 2% but probably womt as i think most bonuses that is in that class is about 2% give or take a 0.5% or so.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...61#post4333761
Well, it seems that the dev's are FINALLY ditching the amazingly useful '2 percent debt protection' and '3 percent mez' bonuses for..... Bonus Resistance! (and some status resist) We do not have percentages yet, but this is likely to alter heavily the calculus of build tradeoffs. If the resistance percentages are tiny(.1 percent or similar idiocy) then little changes. But if they are substantial (2 percent, 5 percent) then this suddenly becomes a BIG DEAL. Thoughts? Any information on bonus sizes? Bueller? |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
It's likely that they'll be between equivalent to and twice as much as comparable Defense bonuses. Even if they are merely equivalent, .63 S/L resist adds up.
I'm extremely interested to see what this does for Dark Armor, Regen, and SR in particular.
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Although logically they "should" be twice the equivalent defense bonuses because of the way resistance works, I'd be shocked if the Devs go that far. Numerous sets give us 3.75% to a given defense pairing (energy/negative, for example). If they release numerous sets giving 7.5% resistance each (and they've already said they'll be pairing up the types of resistance like they did defense) I'll be gobsmacked.
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Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
It's likely that they'll be between equivalent to and twice as much as comparable Defense bonuses. Even if they are merely equivalent, .63 S/L resist adds up.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
No, Resistance behaves much more favorably than Defense*. So while D% = 2R% nominally, it's not exactly apples to apples. I would anticipate something in the range of 112.5% to 150%, but wouldn't be shocked if it were only 100%.
*In most ways. The exception being a typed defenses vs mixed-type attacks.
** Well, also, a successful Defense protects against carried effects. But whatevs.
Well, I was referring to the way 45% defense is equivalent to 90% resistance.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Having resistance bonuses between 2% and 5% or higher would be bad for the game. Defense capped characters can still be pressed by bad luck and the game is tuned to deal with defense capped characters. Resistance capped characters provide way too much consistency to provide moments where game decisions are crucial.
I suspect that you will see something like the following:
Bonuses are paired (like defense) to S/L, F/C, E/N and Psi and Toxic.
Small bonuses are in the neighborhood of 1.25
Medium bonuses are in the neighborhood of 1.88
Large bonuses are in the neighborhood of 2.5
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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This is not entirely true.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, I was referring to the way 45% defense is equivalent to 90% resistance.
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While damage over time numbers are similar if you examine incoming damage long term, the effects on game play are drastically different.
Defense provides a chaotic luck based mitigation where you can take large chunks of damage at any time. Because of this even capped characters can have moments where they are pressed and have to make good decisions if they hit an unlucky streak against hard hitting opponents.
In addition the whole game is tuned to deal with defense capping with heavy defense debuffs. Another important thing to consider is that defense debuffs have a capped effect - once enemies can hit you at will you no longer take additional damage. In other words, a character with no additional defense that gets debuffed into the ground will take double damage and that's it.
Damage Resistance, on the other hand, provides a consistent damage input that doesn't significantly vary your play experience. A resistance capped character won't experience moments where they are pressed. Regeneration synergizes extremely well with damage resistance; it directly combats consistent incoming damage.
If damage resistance becomes a problem (ie. capped Brutes on fire farms) then the game isn't tuned at all to deal with that. If the devs start introducing resistance debuffs they are universally boosting damage and you don't hit a natural bottom like you do with defense debuffs. Anything that will provide significant challenge to a resistance capped Brute will one shot blasters.
I am glad the devs are finally fixing IO bonuses, but they need to be conservative here.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Let the rampant speculation on 7.5% mez resist Impervious Skin IOs commence!!
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I think I'll wait and see what happens, rather than waste time with idle speculation.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Thoughts?
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
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Have you logged onto beta yet? |
Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
I think I'll wait and see what happens, rather than waste time with idle speculation.
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This IO change is.... Wow.
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And I was referring to how it isn't. 90% resistance definitely mitigates 90% of incoming damage of the appropriate type regardless of relative level or tohit buff. 45% defense mitigates 90% of damage against most even-level minions, fullstop.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, I was referring to the way 45% defense is equivalent to 90% resistance.
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Or in an obvious literal example, you don't need to add 28% more Resistance to hit the Incarnate Resist Cap.
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Which is handily offset by the fact that a missed attack applies no debuffs.|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
And I was referring to how it isn't. 90% resistance definitely mitigates 90% of incoming damage of the appropriate type regardless of relative level or tohit buff. 45% defense mitigates 90% of damage against most even-level minions, fullstop.
Or in an obvious literal example, you don't need to add 28% more Resistance to hit the Incarnate Resist Cap. |
If the bad guys hit you with enough mezzes, they will break through even a tanks mitigations, and faceplant follows very quickly.
Probably the most egregious example of this right now are the Olympian Guards in the UG trial.
I did mention the advangages of DEF above. It's somewhat moot at this point as the changes are on beta. I haven't looked at the numbers yet, but I do rather expect the developers to place more weight on lifeline damage mitigation of the two stats rather than carried benefits. But -- I'll log in tomorrow to see what things look like. 2R% would be a nice surprise for the previously egregiously weak +Resist IO sets.
This is an all out attack aganist the cottage rule and I personally feel violated as a 6 year vet. For LITERALLY years I've been perfecting my build to minimize debt incurred via defeats. It's not just the time I've sunk into my toons but the hundreds of influence I've burned collecting the needed recipes, salvage etc. to put them together. I will fight these unfair and frankly game ruining changes tooth and nail.
When there is no room left in Hell, the Dead shall walk the earth.
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....uhm.|
Originally Posted by Organicide
This is an all out attack aganist the cottage rule and I personally feel violated as a 6 year vet. For LITERALLY years I've been perfecting my build to minimize debt incurred via defeats. It's not just the time I've sunk into my toons but the hundreds of influence I've burned collecting the needed recipes, salvage etc. to put them together. I will fight these unfair and frankly game ruining changes tooth and nail.
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Are you serious?
Every IO change I've seen so far is a straight-up buff.
This gives us more choices in builds, but in no way invalidates or weakens any old build.
Originally Posted by Organicide
This is an all out attack aganist the cottage rule and I personally feel violated as a 6 year vet. For LITERALLY years I've been perfecting my build to minimize debt incurred via defeats. It's not just the time I've sunk into my toons but the hundreds of influence I've burned collecting the needed recipes, salvage etc. to put them together. I will fight these unfair and frankly game ruining changes tooth and nail.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
....uhm.
Are you serious? Every IO change I've seen so far is a straight-up buff. This gives us more choices in builds, but in no way invalidates or weakens any old build. |
Also, If you're a 6 year vet, you should know how trivial debt actually is in the game now. I haven't had more than three bars of debt in...years. And that was gone after 2 missions.
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No, I haven't. I'm out of town, so let me ask. Will my invuln toons and def based toons be happy?
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Have you logged onto beta yet?
This IO change is.... Wow. |
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My /FA brute has 24% S/L resist from IOs, by accident, with just my Live build copied over. (Technically, I maybe should only claim that 19% is by accident, since I have 5% on Live. But still.) With some tweaks, I'm pretty sure I can have capped S/L resists - again, on a /Fire brute - without giving up much of anything.|
Originally Posted by Forevermore
No, I haven't. I'm out of town, so let me ask. Will my invuln toons and def based toons be happy?
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I don't know if that makes you happy, but if it doesn't, you probably had wildly unrealistic expectations ;P
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cool. sounds like these resistant IOs will be useful.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
My /FA brute has 24% S/L resist from IOs, by accident, with just my Live build copied over. (Technically, I maybe should only claim that 19% is by accident, since I have 5% on Live. But still.) With some tweaks, I'm pretty sure I can have capped S/L resists - again, on a /Fire brute - without giving up much of anything.
I don't know if that makes you happy, but if it doesn't, you probably had wildly unrealistic expectations ;P |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
My /FA brute has 24% S/L resist from IOs, by accident, with just my Live build copied over. (Technically, I maybe should only claim that 19% is by accident, since I have 5% on Live. But still.) With some tweaks, I'm pretty sure I can have capped S/L resists - again, on a /Fire brute - without giving up much of anything.
I don't know if that makes you happy, but if it doesn't, you probably had wildly unrealistic expectations ;P |
Holy carp. Guess I need to finish up my Fm/Fa brute when I get back home.
Hm. Just thought about something. How silly is that wit SR's scaling resists I wonder.
*Squee* Can't wait!
I dare say these changes are actually fantastic. My WM/SD Scrapper feels a metric ton beefier. You can still softcap SD and add some robust S/L resistance %'s as well. I've lost some recharge overall but when/if this goes live, one could just replace Rebirth with...ummm...drawing a blank...the +Recharge +End Destiny (forgot name, for shame).
When there is no room left in Hell, the Dead shall walk the earth.
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You forgot to throw the winkie after that. |
Originally Posted by Organicide
This is an all out attack aganist the cottage rule and I personally feel violated as a 6 year vet. For LITERALLY years I've been perfecting my build to minimize debt incurred via defeats. It's not just the time I've sunk into my toons but the hundreds of influence I've burned collecting the needed recipes, salvage etc. to put them together. I will fight these unfair and frankly game ruining changes tooth and nail.
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Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...61#post4333761
Well, it seems that the dev's are FINALLY ditching the amazingly useful '2 percent debt protection' and '3 percent mez' bonuses for.....
Bonus Resistance! (and some status resist)
We do not have percentages yet, but this is likely to alter heavily the calculus of build tradeoffs. If the resistance percentages are tiny(.1 percent or similar idiocy) then little changes.
But if they are substantial (2 percent, 5 percent) then this suddenly becomes a BIG DEAL.
Thoughts? Any information on bonus sizes?
Bueller?