Suggestion for Tier 9 "crashing" Armor Powers
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2012-08-06 24:16 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
They still haven't said it outright but certainly a big hint 
"transform into an unrelenting berserker"
http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/g...4/overview.php
Obviously if it is true that you can get crash protection then they have no plans to remove crashes permanently.
I'd want a pretty significant reworking of Unstoppable (i.e. damage, defense, psi res, regen, etc.) on my tank if the up time is dropping to more of a One With the Shield range. Burnout hijinks are too good to give up right now without getting something solid in return.
PenanceжTriage
I like the original post's suggestion.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
Doesn't sound like a bad idea, Comrade.
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"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I don't really like "choose when you crash." I would argue that t9's should never completely crash your endurance bar under any circumstances. As for balance, well, look what just happened to nukes. They got their crash removed, and then got balanced by having their recharge cut in half. Essentially the balance was to take powers that are supposed to be awesome and make them actually usable, and then on top of that make them even more awesome.
Really, I think survivability t9's should just take ~50% of your end with no recovery debuff when they drop and have their recharge times left alone. They're supposed to be the 'final' and 'best' power for a lot of sets and yet, at least for me, they become the most often skipped. Nothing should ever drop your toggles in the modern game except Sappers and Arachnos. It's just too fast paced for retoggling.
Personally, if I had to re-design a "crash" to represent the exhaustion at the end of T9s, I'd remove the endurance crash but floor both the recovery and the recharge of my powers for a bit - say 15 to 30 seconds.
That way no toggles go down, and you get a chance to fire off a couple shots to finish that stubborn almost-dead critter, but you're gonna have to think carefully about what you're doing until you catch your breath, because your ressources are just about to run out. Heck, you'd still have the strength to RUN AWAY if needed, but not enough to start on another, fresh mob right away.
Plus I think that thematically it'd be a closer translation. Just one of those crazy thoughts. 
I like the OPs suggestion a lot, as an improvement, but I like Netphenix's idea, too. I do think the crashing t9s bear some looking at, but I really don't want a whole passel of SoWs either...
But, I think there are a lot of workable solutions to make them a bit more appealing.
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Seemed germane to the topic. I hope this is an indication that all crashing powers may someday have a tweak. It may not be the case for tier9 armor sets' crashes in i24, but that may be due to them not being certain on what they would have to give up to become crashless.
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Originally Posted by Synapse
/em appears in a burst of arcane runes and flashing sorcerous energy
Greetings fellow mages, wizards, thaumaturges, sorcerers, necromancers and other mystically inclined heroes and villains. Welcome to Synapse's school of sorcery! /em puts on a wizard hat... Your feedback I've read through the entirety of the thread and will continue to do so. Of the suggestions made so far the ones I am considering are: 1) Rune of Protection: I'll look at this power's recharge and duration and make sure it's appropriate. It should really be comparable to Force of Nature. That said, I will definitely be getting rid of the crash. Simply put, we've been moving away from crashes in new powers. Having a crash in this power goes against recent design philosophies.... ...In the mean time, keep the feedback flowing! Synapse |
"Just remove the crash" and "Make is a temporary toggle" leads to the same problem to how to balance for exemple Elusive VS Power Surge (or "hey look I have a self rez!").
I'm all good with the no crash thing if they balance T9 powers and make self rezes something like a strong self buff that eventually rezes you but still have an effect if you are alive (oh, and while you'r at it, revamp Stone Armor completely!).
If you look at the powers you'll have:
Great/Overpowered Powers: Power Surge - Unstoppable
Bad Powers: One with shield - Strengh of Will
Crap Powers: Overload - Elude
WTF I dont get anything: Dark Armor, Fiery Armor, Regeneration (comparatively)
WTF I dont get anything and I already suck so much its a shame: Stone Armor
Now you could try to convince me ElA and Invul do in the current state of the game need this buff compared to Fiery, Stone or SR but I really doupt you will.
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Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU
"Just remove the crash" and "Make is a temporary toggle" leads to the same problem to how to balance for exemple Elusive VS Power Surge (or "hey look I have a self rez!").
I'm all good with the no crash thing if they balance T9 powers and make self rezes something like a strong self buff that eventually rezes you but still have an effect if you are alive (oh, and while you'r at it, revamp Stone Armor completely!). If you look at the powers you'll have: Great/Overpowered Powers: Power Surge - Unstoppable Bad Powers: One with shield - Strengh of Will Crap Powers: Overload - Elude WTF I dont get anything: Dark Armor, Fiery Armor, Regeneration (comparatively) WTF I dont get anything and I already suck so much its a shame: Stone Armor Now you could try to convince me ElA and Invul do in the current state of the game need this buff compared to Fiery, Stone or SR but I really doupt you will. |
Well as soon as you mention Fiery Aura you forfeit your point in a way. Is ROTP a good power? No. Is it a good res power? Sure, it's a great rez power... But discussing good rez powers is like discussing whether brawl or throwing knives is better. Both are worthless, so who cares?
The rest of Fiery Aura is so good that it doesn't need a rez. If anything, I would say replace all self rez powers with crashless t9's- Defense t9's for resist sets and Resistance t9's for Defense sets. If people really want to keep self rezzes, why not have both in every powerset? Personally I feel like self rez powers are worthless in gameplay, and they only become more worthless when you take into account the fact that the majority of serious players have like 10 million charges of self rez being ignored in their e-mail box from all the superpacks they bought.
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I chuckled pretty good at that one...lol...I totally agree with that sentiment. Making the rez a power with a debuff of sorts you can use while alive and dead (to rez) would be useful though.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Well as soon as you mention Fiery Aura you forfeit your point in a way. Is ROTP a good power? No. Is it a good res power? Sure, it's a great rez power... But discussing good rez powers is like discussing whether brawl or throwing knives is better. Both are worthless, so who cares?
The rest of Fiery Aura is so good that it doesn't need a rez. If anything, I would say replace all self rez powers with crashless t9's- Defense t9's for resist sets and Resistance t9's for Defense sets. If people really want to keep self rezzes, why not have both in every powerset? Personally I feel like self rez powers are worthless in gameplay, and they only become more worthless when you take into account the fact that the majority of serious players have like 10 million charges of self rez being ignored in their e-mail box from all the superpacks they bought. |
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Originally Posted by planet_J
I chuckled pretty good at that one...lol...I totally agree with that sentiment. Making the rez a power with a debuff of sorts you can use while alive and dead (to rez) would be useful though.
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I made a new alt recently and one of the biggest factors in motivating myself to go through with creating a new character was, "Don't worry THB, now you'll be able to use all that extra crap you got from super packs!"
My point is if you just remove crashes you make 2 power pools extremely better and hardly affect the others. It breaks the balance (if there ever was one).
I think removing the crash is good but you have to bring balance to T9 powers, for exemple making something out of self rezes, because as you said, they kina suck.
I would hate it if they just removed the self rez powers. Those things are awesome, especially DA's and its 30 mag stun. And Rise of the Phoenix is amazing. Even the more boring ones are still useful, because no matter how invincible you look on paper, something will happen and you will die.
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Originally Posted by Mad Grim
I would hate it if they just removed the self rez powers. Those things are awesome, especially DA's and its 30 mag stun. And Rise of the Phoenix is amazing. Even the more boring ones are still useful, because no matter how invincible you look on paper, something will happen and you will die.
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Yeah, my point was that we should replace the self rez powers with crashless t9's and make all the existing t9's crashless- If enough players still want self rez powers after that change, just add one to every melee secondary (primary for tanks) and let people have the option to pick it up.'
Re: looking good on paper and still dying- Yeah, if it was literally IMPOSSIBLE to ever die on any character, the game just wouldn't be fun anymore. I have beastly characters that still get wrecked by max setting Arachnos, because Arachnos don't mess around. While the mez is frustrating (that's addressed in another active thread atm) that very rare and extreme case still doesn't justify wasting a power choice for a self rez on any of my builds, being able to get back up doesn't mean they won't just kill me again, and I don't build my characters around dying, I build them around surviving.
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I can guarantee that getting rid of rezzes would be a horrible idea. A lot of people like them.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Yeah, my point was that we should replace the self rez powers with crashless t9's and make all the existing t9's crashless- If enough players still want self rez powers after that change, just add one to every melee secondary (primary for tanks) and let people have the option to pick it up.
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An easier option is just to add some nice effects to the rezzes and make them dual use (alive or dead). To essentially make them into t9's that can also rez you if you're dead. May then need to also add a rez effect to the currently existing t9's. That sounds like it would be easy enough. No need to replace any powers.
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Agreed. In-set rezzes are pretty much here to stay. Give them some use alive and dead or otherwise make them all worth getting in the first place (/Regeneration's Revive is still a crying shame). I can usually find something else worth getting in almost every power set with a rez, but a "while still standing" effect would at least make me juggle the cost of the power versus something else.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
I can guarantee that getting rid of rezzes would be a horrible idea. A lot of people like them.
An easier option is just to add some nice effects to the rezzes and make them dual use (alive or dead). To essentially make them into t9's that can also rez you if you're dead. May then need to also add a rez effect to the currently existing t9's. That sounds like it would be easy enough. No need to replace any powers. |
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Well if we can get the mez system working in a reasonable way (again, see a couple of threads down) only reasonable deaths should be happening- No more cheating NPC's perma-mezzing you, and I would argue that debuffs should get the same treatment; No more ridiculous stacked debuffs to the point of removing any semblance of build strategy whatsoever and just boiling every situation down to, "Bad luck." It's not intuitive combat at all, and with our current system of, "You can use your powers. Until the game decides that all your powers are worthless. Then there's nothing you can do about it- No amount of skill can save you," self rez powers make sense. If the Dev's decide to fix that frankly horrible aspect of the game though, I don't think self rez powers would really be necessary, because people would only be dying when THEY mess up. Not every time the game rolls a dice and decides that they lose.
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Originally Posted by ArchGemini
Agreed. In-set rezzes are pretty much here to stay. Give them some use alive and dead or otherwise make them all worth getting in the first place (/Regeneration's Revive is still a crying shame). I can usually find something else worth getting in almost every power set with a rez, but a "while still standing" effect would at least make me juggle the cost of the power versus something else.
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Personally, I always thought the self-rezzes should have the option to be run as a toggle, where if you would die with the toggle on, you trigger the self-rez effect instead. So in that way, it turns it into a kind of triggered heal with nice status effects/damage in some cases, but could still be used as a rez if you didn't have it active or it was recharging when you died.
Why?
1) We all seem to prefer reliable defensive powers. If we can survive when the power is down, why spend a slot on it? If we can't, then the power probably isn't going to last long enough for our needs, so we have to back off anyway.
2) The crash. This ensures that we're locked into that three minute time frame. If I even suspect that my team can't get that AV down in three minutes, I'm not going to risk hitting the Tier 9. If I do and the clock runs out, my toggles drop, I go splat, and my team may go with me.
3) They don't exist in a vacuum. Once the rest of the set is taken into account, the power may not provide much advantage. It either has the same gaping hole as the rest of the set (Unstoppable) or provides more of something we already have in plenty (Elude, Retsu). For a soft-capped SR free from defense debuffs, Elude does pretty much nothing to enhance survivability.