IO Set suggestions for SS/INV Tanker
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-08-02 08:02 in The Market and Inventions
Honestly, with the right choices, you don't need Leadership.
As for the rest, take a look at this build and just replace SuperJump with Fly.
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1462;656;1312;HEX;| |78DA6594CB72124114867B8641844002C1040209F700E13281886B17265A5AA18A8| |8BAA5C6D8C224482820962C7D0A571AE3D2850FE3DD7730D137184FE6FC2286A982| |6FE6F4E973FEFEA7A7EB2FB6BD1FEEBCBC2914EFADAE311CB61E18BD433970D68DB| |6B92F2E2E17FD621C6D6DCBA7B23794FADDDEF3E36E4F0E8CC766D71C8DA318AECB| |AE947AF3B84FF7CDD140F6DAA38EF0358E8EBAFA6DB3DD1999BDB6D77EDA95469F1| |E3CF643B32FE593807D4B75CDA1C945833B7D735FDFA12EED71AB6E0C4772300E93| |962CFD3EB9E94FB9506769224537394DA83130CED4126088B8A6899247E0A2390D4| |24A1357F6C0FBCCAB4DF08058D5C46737DA084B558A1CF35CA24E751DA8EB405D2F| |EA7A51771E75E7515721539D3C47382DBAC457EAE4C28A5C58911F2BF263458B496| |669CB6157D9A4CE6EAEE27477543BB66832AF1D8087CCE52EF80C240573DC4F99BB| |41D08408830E1AF3F198C3072D616889404B045A3E928005CE55176A8A5D7BB5025| |699DF2927A02876AF007AC4C02AAD2108F782702F06F712702F01F712704F237D4B| |D0BE843A4930446321381B8AB24F3FA8FF0A34AEC4B8460C4C825BA423CA1AD528D| |E6C124C83CA326D24F8BDF653B57755E68C993B6796469C5BEE8316FBFD8D34C4A1| |210E9FD2F0290D9FBE504E0A3929E4649093414E8D74AE43C33A7A66A1210B4D596| |8C841430E1A52E44D1EF5F358D3C6259E906545ECF8226225B00C9E528E0E0DFA5B| |8E6D9E82EFC0D7CCEA1BF084F9DE274405EFAE92C1D82BD677466B53784C28651EF| |BF52FA62A8FD8838D87CCC23DDE83E7D3F3F23CEFF7F43CD42F24C47F5CD5262782| |1011F8A04D4E16AB303D6E7FA59599487526727D26529B89EC4E47B0D28636396BC| |4DFB3C6ED9F9C2DD61E7D2655DCFF01CB69CBD5| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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I don't use Mids, and wasn't really looking for something that complex, but thank you!
Leadership was taken to reflect the character's military background.
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608
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Pfft. Know it. Learn it. LOVE IT! Outside of the game itself, it's the single greatest piece of CoH-related software extant. It's a great tool for letting you see what a build looks like BEFORE you |
Originally Posted by GreenLantern68
I don't use Mids
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It also helps you know what to buy so you don't waste money, Inf, merits, etc on crap you don't need. And you WERE asking for pointers as to what you should buy.
Mids builds are the lingua franca for that.
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| and wasn't really looking for something that complex, but thank you! |
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| Leadership was taken to reflect the character's military background. |
Rage is (or should be) DEEPLY perma. Which will keep you up near your damage cap a good chunk of the time.
So Assault is just a monster Endurance sink.
Tactics...well...as I've said before...built right, and an Inv Tank has ZERO need for it.
So, again, an endurance sink.
Perma Rage should have you pretty much always hitting even at very high levels.
There goes Tactics.
Vengeance? A tank should be keeping his/her squishies alive via combat control and unmitigated face-mashery. Not sobbing over a corpse, swearing vengeance.
That and you pretty much have to wait for someone to suicide to get any benefit from it.
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Uh, Hyperstrike, I think the OP took Leadership for conceptual purposes, so it doesn't really matter if it fits in a min/max build. 
I hate teleport as a travel power, but two of my characters' concepts forced me to choose it for them.
And GreenLantern68 -- unless you're on a Mac, you really need to download Mids. Just copy/paste all those weird blocks of text into Mids and you can see the IO sets, and how they affect totals such as defense, recharge etc. Super powerful tool, and very easy to use.
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They DID use the term "rebuild".|
Originally Posted by Lili_Von_Shtupp
Uh, Hyperstrike, I think the OP took Leadership for conceptual purposes, so it doesn't really matter if it fits in a min/max build.
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They also did not, initially say they were looking to "stay" with a pure conceptual build.
In short, I was giving advice in a vacuum.
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Here are some ideas for you to consider:
1.) There are certain classic IOs that help a wide variety of characters and are seen in many, many builds. The Performance Shifter +End Proc, the Miracle +recovery unique, and the Numina's +regen/rec unique. If you are building for +regen, the Regenerative Tissue +regen is good too. Level does not affect these at all, so either get whatever's cheapest or if you are creating them yourself via A-merits, buy the lowest level possible.
1a.) The Force Feedback +recharge proc in Footstomp is a classic SS trick.
2.) Inv tankers typically have a few powers that take defense sets (invincibility, tough hide, weave, maybe combat jumping, maneuvers, or vengence). The LOTG +7.5% global recharge is very nice. The 2-slot bonus of +regen is nice for an Inv tanker, the 3 slot bonus might be overkill depending on if you have perma-dull pain or not. The global bonus acts like a set bonus, so when you are exemplared 3 levels below the IO level, the bonus disappears. Some people like using max level ones for the +def component of it, but personally I like using min level (25) because I value the +global recharge. If you plan on exemping down for TFs, might as well go with the 25s (you'll feel more super!).
3.) Many Inv tankers look to set bonuses to get them soft-capped (+45% def) to smashing and lethal with 1 foe in melee range. I like having high energy/negative defense, too. Kinetic Combat, Reactive Armor, Eradication, and Obliteration (also gives +recharge) are good sets for these bonuses, but they tend to be very expensive. The Steadfast Protection +3% def IO goes without saying. Mocking Beratement and Perfect Zinger also are worth considering, as they have multiple bonuses that are good for ya. I think getting s/l softcapped is a really, really big deal for INV tanks, and while it can be very expensive I think the effort is worth it.
4.) I would 5-slot Doctored Wounds in Dull Pain, using as many pieces that grant recharge as possible. Dull Pain is perma with 200% recharge so if you have 95% recharge slotted in Dull Pain, you'll need 105% bonuses from global recharge (or hasten) to get there. If you have a bunch of LOTG +7.5% recharge, hasten, the FFB+recharge proc, you'll be a long way towards something approaching perma-Dull Pain. Stir in a few more +recharge bonuses, and life is nice.
5.) The Tanker ATO set has a nice 4-slot bonus, and the +res buff might be nice. When you hit 50, you can Catalyze them and improve them even more.
6.) I like Thunderstrike as a ranged damage set. It doesn't have any +recharge, but its relatively cheap and has good enhancement value and set bonuses. Crushing Impact is another good all-around set that isn't special, but solid if you are saving up for some expensive sets.
7.) As far as power pools and epic power pools, you mentioned flight and leadership but I assume you also took fighting (if you didn't, I think you ought to, especially given your hero's military background!). The classic Superman analogue would take Energy Mastery APP for Laser Beam Eyes, but honestly I don't think that would bring very much to your build. You might want to get a little more original and switch up the classic a little bit! If you could bear to visit the dark side for a little bit (via tips and morality missions) villains can unlock extra patron power pools by doing missions at level 35. You could role play being mind-controlled, going undercover to foil a plot, etc.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Patron_Power_Pools
8.) These IOs are quite expensive, but the Panacea +hp/end proc is nice. The Gladiator's +3% def proc is very, very nice. Cytoskeleton HO is great for invincibility.
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While I agree with Hyperstrike that assault isn't worth the end for your own damage, I don't know if he was joking with this line or not. Rage will not keep you near your damage cap.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Rage is (or should be) DEEPLY perma. Which will keep you up near your damage cap a good chunk of the time.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
So Assault is just a monster Endurance sink.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Tactics...well...as I've said before...built right, and an Inv Tank has ZERO need for it.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Vengeance? A tank should be keeping his/her squishies alive via combat control and unmitigated face-mashery. Not sobbing over a corpse, swearing vengeance.
That and you pretty much have to wait for someone to suicide to get any benefit from it. |
Taking Veng wouldn't be sobbing over a corpse, instead it would be -Vengeance-. If I kill Lois Lane, you can bet Superman is going to fight me a bit harder than just a regular fight. This not only fits conceptual, but also once again benefits the team.
At least on itrials, you won't -ever- have to wait for someone to commit suicide. There are plenty of dead bodies from the 50+0's who are still trying to get their alpha slot. During big fights, you'll find a body drop about once a minute.
I, on regular occasion, waste vengeance because someone died before my current buff wore off.
I like a tank with leadership. The same way I like everyone having leadership.
I don't think I have a single toon without Tactics.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
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Agreed. Almost all of my characters have at least two Leadership toggles (the only exception I can recall at the moment is my Crab Spider who just has one from the pool plus his built in leadership abilities). It's a nice way to provide a bit of extra oomph for the team and a low-cost use of a power choice (plus Maneuvers and Vengeance can each take a LotG).|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
I like a tank with leadership. The same way I like everyone having leadership.
I don't think I have a single toon without Tactics. |
That being said, I do tend to select the toggles based on what ones benefit me so (for example) my AR/Dev Blaster doesn't have Tactics since Targeting Drone covers that for him but he does have Assault and Maneuvers.
On the subject of Vengeance, I find that it's pretty useful on Incarnate trials, especially since you can target any league-member (although only your team gets the buff).
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*Pulls on the Arcana-Wannabe hat*|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
While I agree with Hyperstrike that assault isn't worth the end for your own damage, I don't know if he was joking with this line or not. Rage will not keep you near your damage cap.
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Let's look at the math.
Tanker damage cap is 400% right?
300% + Base damage
IO enhancement: 100%
1st Rage Stack: 80%
2nd Rage Stack: 80%
Set +Dmg Bonuses: +?
And, depending on how crazy you get with recharge, that's Double-Rage anything from 40-100% of the duration.
So. You were saying that Rage wouldn't keep you near damage cap? Right?
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| I'd disagree here. If you can handle it, use it. You're a tank, so it's assumed you'll be teaming, and any +dmg for the team is good. |
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| Right again, although not always true for the team. +Tohit can help the team (and blasters hit the magic 22% with the new snipe changes), so although you won't need it personally, it is an AoE buff, so there's that to consider. |
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| Again, not sure if he's joking. |
It's a highly situational power that provides you, personally, with minimal benefit (if you're capped, defense-wise), and if you're Doing It Right, rarely if ever gets invoked. I mean, if you need a set mule, that's one thing. But I can think of better ways to accomplish this.
What does Vengeance grant?
+ToHit (You're already spending a chunk of time double-raged)
+Damage (You're already spending a chunk of time near-capped)
+Defense (Built well, you see zero benefit from it)
The +Heal is nice, but small and single-instance.
The status protections are nicer (especially the Fear protection).
But, again, you actually have to let one of your teammates die to see any use out of it.
So I stand by my statement that there are better and more proactive things you can be doing than standing around waiting for someone to croak just so you can break off and play third-rate buffbot for the team.
Taking Veng wouldn't be sobbing over a corpse, instead it would be -Vengeance-. If I kill Lois Lane, you can bet Superman is going to fight me a bit harder than just a regular fight. This not only fits conceptual, but also once again benefits the team.
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| At least on itrials, you won't -ever- have to wait for someone to commit suicide. There are plenty of dead bodies from the 50+0's who are still trying to get their alpha slot. During big fights, you'll find a body drop about once a minute. |
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I, on regular occasion, waste vengeance because someone died before my current buff wore off. I like a tank with leadership. The same way I like everyone having leadership. I don't think I have a single toon without Tactics. |
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Err, that's not my understanding of +dmg. You've added an extra +100% from base that doesn't exist.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
*Pulls on the Arcana-Wannabe hat*
Let's look at the math. Tanker damage cap is 400% right? 300% + Base damage IO enhancement: 100% 1st Rage Stack: 80% 2nd Rage Stack: 80% Set +Dmg Bonuses: +? And, depending on how crazy you get with recharge, that's Double-Rage anything from 40-100% of the duration. So. You were saying that Rage wouldn't keep you near damage cap? Right? |
The cap is 400%.
95% from slotting
160% from 2x rage
=255% out of 400%
You would need an extra +145% bonus to reach the cap. That's over 4 Empathy Defenders using Fortitude on you to get to the cap. I wouldn't call that close, considering it would take 6 reds to get there, or 3 large reds.
Even if the cap for damage was 400% -including- the 100% base, that would mean that when the difference between 300% and 400% damage bonus would be the same for an unslotted attack. That just isn't true.
At 399% damage bonus brawl will do slightly less damage than 400% damage bonus. The damage enhancement is subtracted from the damage bonus but not the base. If the base were included, they would have everything labelled differently. The cap would be 500% for powers.
The problem you may be having is that the damage is a mutiplier on the base amount and you've added that to the damage bonus. As with accuracy, it's always (1+bonus), but make no mistake that the bonus cap is 400% and it does not include the 100%.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Maybe. But it's doing almost nothing for you as an Inv/SS tank EXCEPT eating endurance reliably. There's better ways to spend endurance.
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You seem to suggest that if the buff does nothing for you, there is no point. Would you give up an auto power that put everyone else except you at the damage cap? I sure wouldn't, because I understand that unless I'm specifically making the character to solo (We know 2 other ATs better at that), that it will benefit the team.
To simplify it, if I am on a team and it benefits my team, it is benefiting me. It's an indirect benefit, but you cannot say that a benefit to your team somehow doesn't benefit you. As long as you're on the team, your teammates level of power will affect you in some way.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Again, there are better ways for an aggro controller to spend endurance.
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I'm sure that taking 2 leadership toggles won't hinder a tanker build and make it unable to aggro control. If it were somehow a choice between doing a tanker's job and choosing leadership, I would agree with you, but that's not the situation I see here.
Leadership would benefit the team while not gimping the build, so that's a vote from me.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
It's similar to the argument I use for dropping unstoppable off a heavily optimized tank.
It's a highly situational power that provides you, personally, with minimal benefit (if you're capped, defense-wise), and if you're Doing It Right, rarely if ever gets invoked. I mean, if you need a set mule, that's one thing. |
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
What does Vengeance grant?
+ToHit (You're already spending a chunk of time double-raged) +Damage (You're already spending a chunk of time near-capped) +Defense (Built well, you see zero benefit from it) The +Heal is nice, but small and single-instance. The status protections are nicer (especially the Fear protection). But, again, you actually have to let one of your teammates die to see any use out of it. |
I don't know how to respond to someone stating that an 8 person AoE +Dmg buff isn't useful, but I suppose I'll explain it.
Veangeance is an -AoE- buff, meaning it benefits the team. The +tohit, while useless to you, is not useless to everyone else. The +dmg is extremely useful, as any AoE +dmg power is. The +Defense will defend your squishies making you do your job better. A tanker can only hold so much aggro, so giving everyone high levels of defense means you could defend even more.
Not to mention, I'm sure every Invul tank would love the +defense from Vengeance. Invul tankers don't have 95 DDR, meaning they can lose a good chunk of their defense against certain enemines -and- most Invul tanks don't have the Incarnate softcap to all.
Not to mention:
"+25% All Defense Types, All Defense Positions"
Includes Psi, and that's the base amount unslotted.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
So I stand by my statement that there are better and more proactive things you can be doing than standing around waiting for someone to croak just so you can break off and play third-rate buffbot for the team.
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If you're a smart tank, you'll watch people's buff bars and see incoming attacks. When you see the blaster have 2 little NPC powers beside his name, you'll know someone is in trouble and who to taunt.
A smart tank watches the buff bar of their teammates regardless, meaning they'll see when a teammate dies.
I'm not very good at multitasking, but clicking a name in my team window and pressing F10 takes me around 2 seconds. Those 2 seconds to give the team better survivability, killing speed and mez protection are damn well spent.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
On iTrials, it isn't the job of a single tank to keep the entire league alive.
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If a tank wants to -up- the entire teams performance by taking advantage of that, I would suggest it over building your toon to never expect failure.
If your job is to keep everyone alive, and you can take 1 power to make a failure into a success, that's called 'insurance'. It's a well-rounded tank.
You either keep everyone alive = win
Someone dies + Veng = win
Also, that hat looks silly on you.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
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The damage strength cap for Tankers is 4.0, or +3.0; what players normally call 400% or +300%. The damage cap for Blasters by comparison is 5.0, or +4.0, or +400%.|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
Err, that's not my understanding of +dmg. You've added an extra +100% from base that doesn't exist.
The cap is 400%. 95% from slotting 160% from 2x rage =255% out of 400% You would need an extra +145% bonus to reach the cap. That's over 4 Empathy Defenders using Fortitude on you to get to the cap. I wouldn't call that close, considering it would take 6 reds to get there, or 3 large reds. |
1.0 or 100% is base damage
0.95 or +95% is normally from slotting.
Double stacked rage for tankers at +80% per stack would be +160% for a total of +255% (capped to +300%) or 355% total damage (capped to 400% total).
That's +45% damage from the tanker cap.
The important thing to note about the "damage caps" is that in the actual game engine they are "damage strength caps." They are caps on the maximum strength that archetype is allowed to have per damage type. And the base value of strength for the damage types is 1.0, which means you do 1.0x your base damage. The best way to remember that base is 1.0 and not zero is to remember that the damage strength *floor* is 0.10 or 10%. Your damage cannot be debuffed lower than 10% of your base damage.
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Thanks for the clarification Arcana.
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That would be my confusion then.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The damage cap for Blasters by comparison is 5.0, or +4.0, or +400%.
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I usually play Blasters/Scrappers, and when people say 400% damage cap for those ATs, I knew the base amount was skipped over.
This is the first time I've heard of people including the base amount in the damage bonus. When I think of 100% damage in a power, I think 2x, not base.
That 300% cap for Tankers is pretty pitful, especially considering they can get a perma +160% from their most popular secondary. Then it's true they can almost reach their damage cap with just 2x rage and slotting.
That was my mistake, thanks for the correction.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
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This kind of stuff always gives me a good laugh
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Originally Posted by Lili_Von_Shtupp
but two of my characters' concepts forced me to choose it for them.
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[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
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I also suggest you use mids. It is a compact way of communicating what you need to build instead of writing up a wall of text like Young did. (good advice there!)
Also since it does the math for you, it will tell you if you are over the rule of 5, & give you a total of your bonuses. You can make different builds and compare them.
If you still dont want to use mids, let the forum know so builds can be posted in a long text format.
Young mentioned a lot of good sets. If you have tactics, I suggest rectified reticle for s/l. For end perf sh+ in stamina, miracle+, numi+ in heal.
Given the thread topic, it seems we have been remiss in posting a link to the original bible for IO sets for Inv/SS: Call Me Awesome's Guide.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Good morning all,
I'm putting some effort towards one of my favorite characters, a Level 35 "Superman" analogue with Super Strength/Invulnerability, Flight, and Leadership. While I've already got him kitted out with some IOs, I'm thinking of a Respec and wanted to get serious with a good rebuild. What can you guys suggest as good IO sets to use?
- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie
Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608