Best Tankermind?

I think I'd like to add a Tankermind to my growing list of alts. I'm curious to find out more from veteran MMs about what powersets to take for that purpose, and what sort of slotting options I'll want to look at. For example, should I be trying to get my pets to high def or res when I'm tanking for them? Or would it be better to just get my own def/res the highest I can?

As for powersets, I really have no idea what set combination might be best. Traps, FF, and Sonic look most attractive at first glance because of the self mez protection. Time, however, is a strong contender as well since it seems to offer the most in terms of personal survival. Dark might not be a bad choice either, and I have a hunch that Storm could be a lot better than I'd expect. For the pets, I'd want something thematically and mechanically appropriate (a tall order I know) for the secondary. Mercs seems like a set that could become a lot better if played as a Tankermind. Ninjas also seems like it'd gain a lot. Robots, Thugs, and Demons I've continuously heard wonderful things about. Beast, on the other hand, I've heard has a relatively low damage due to having few attacks. Personally, I don't have enough experience with any of the sets to really be able to judge how effective they will be for tanking.

There are two caveats to my quest though. The first is that the set combination must be fun from levels 1-50. I have a lot of alts and not a lot of play time. It might be a significant amount of time before I have all the bells and whistles. So something that is meh until level 38 and then is godlike probably won't ever hit level 38. The second caveat is that I need to have space in my build for pool powers. The coming changes are opening up a lot of concepts and ideas, so I need the wiggle room to squeeze in pool power choices I like. That means that I need to have a few powers that I can live without. A secondary that requires all of its powers to get the same effect as one or two powers from another set (I'm looking at you Trick Arrow) might not give me that extra space. That doesn't mean I'll ignore posts about those sets. It just means that those sets will be a tougher sell.

Thanks in advance to anyone who offers up their thoughts on the subject.

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

I normally avoid discussions of "the best" but I do think there's a winner here.

My vote for best Tankermind goes to something/Pain Dom, probably Bots/PD so you can get the bubble from ProtBot. Demons/PD would be good too for more resists, though I think you'd get more from the bubble in this case.

I haven't worked out a build, but it's easy enough to build up some level of defense, very respectable resists, including hard capping s/l, serious regen and a self heal. I don't think any other MM secondary has as many layers of mitigation. Get Clarion to avoid mezzes and you've got an honest-to-gosh tank.

For Primary you probably want Robots, Thugs or Demons. Personally I would say that Robots is the best of those but the Thugs and Demons are only slightly behind.

For secondary Traps, Time, Dark and Forcefield are the best for a Tankermind. I personally prefer Traps because it has mez protection (which Time and Dark lack) but also has better utility powers than Forcefield but all of them make a decent Tankermind. Storm is marginal, I've seen some very impressive Storm users but it's a very hard set to play well (I really suck with it).

Bots/Traps is probably the best easy-mode Tankermind.

Just for gits and shiggles I made a quick and dirty build for Bots/Pain just to see what sort of numbers you'd get. With a second look I already see a handful of changes I'd make but I've spend enough time on this. There's no need for anyone to provide comments or feedback on the build, it's not real and probably won't ever be a combo I ever make.

This gets:

Defense (including 11.2% def from ProtBot)

35% melee
47% range
52% aoe

Resists (assuming perma WoP, which would need a little tweeking to get)

75% s/l (hard cap)
61% energy
let's just call everything else 20%

Regen 617% (22.8 hp/sec, would be more with +hp accos).

If you add in pet regen for the hp/sec number, this indeed would be tank-ish numbers.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.959
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Pain Domination
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc(5), BldM'dt-Dmg(7)
Level 1: Nullify Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(11)
Level 2: Soothe -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal(39)
Level 4: Share Pain -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Equip Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(37)
Level 10: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(13), S'bndAl-Dmg(13), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), S'bndAl-Acc/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(17)
Level 16: Enforced Morale -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(19), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(19), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(34), RedFtn-EndRdx(34)
Level 20: Suppress Pain -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Numna-Heal/Rchg(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Numna-Heal(23), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(25)
Level 22: Provoke -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Zinger-Dam%(50), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(50), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(50)
Level 24: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(39), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(39), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(40)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(27), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), BldM'dt-Acc(31), BldM'dt-Dmg(33)
Level 28: World of Pain -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(29), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Aegis-ResDam(33)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Anguishing Cry -- ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(40), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Painbringer -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-Rchg(48)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(42), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Aegis-ResDam(42), Aegis-Psi/Status(43)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(45), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(45), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(45), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(46), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(46)
Level 47: Conduit of Pain -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Invader
------------

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While I haven't had much experience with others, I must say that I've found my Ninja/Time/Scorpion Mastermind to be a very good "Tankermind" when I need him to be that role. In fact, I even have Provoke in my build so that I can tank a tough boss/AV when I need to. And, I can actually hold my own pretty well if I need to step into the role of taunting the Yellows during a Hami raid (though my build could probably be tweaked to handle that role better).

I suppose the point with Time Manipulation as my secondary probably makes the build work for tanking as well as the inclusion of Provoke. I would say that any secondary that gives you a wide array of additional survival for both you and your pets will allow you to be a Tankermind.

I can't help but think that people are answering the question "what is the best MasterMind", or, as I more strongly suspect, there are different thoughts on exactly what a TankerMind is, since it's a player made term and thus susceptible to different player interpretation.

I'm taking it to mean who can keep aggro off of pets where "better" is determined by who can take the most massive damage and survive. That is basically the fundamental (but not only) role of a tanker after all.

I gave my argument for Pain Dom above, where the build soft-capped aoe and ranged and I'm betting if I spent 10 minutes more on top of the 10 minutes I gave to build it in the first place, I'd find some more points to add to melee. Then hard capped s/l resists, 60% energy resists, 20% to everything else. Higher regen than a triage beacon, not to mention mobility). Oh yeah, what I didn't mention was an aoe heal, for whatever damage gets through all that and bodyguard. Lack of mez protection does go in the "con" column but getting mezzed isn't as catastrophic as it is for Time or Dark since you don't lose toggle debuffs. And of course eventually Clarion covers this.

Now, is Pain Dom a better secondary for a MM than Time, or Dark, or Traps? I'd emphatically say "no". Is it better for Tankerminding? I emphatically say "yes". For the record I'm no PD apologist. I have played every MM primary and secondary and don't have intentions to IO build and incarnate my pain dom, which I've done with a bots/traps, among other MMs. But I do have to say it provided me the best "tankermind" experience I've had.

I'd say /Time is the best for tankerminding. Time's Juncture is a debuff aura and helps with taunting, farsight can make all your pets (and you) invincible, you have a strong heal, an you are all around really hard to kill. And thats without IOs.

Well, these have all been interesting responses. I'm reluctant to go Bots/Traps because 2 out of 3 masterminds that I see on my server (which isn't a lot of masterminds to be honest) are Bots/Traps. Considering the input from this thread, I think I've narrowed it down to:

Ninja/Time/Mu - I realize I'd be missing out on Power Boost here, but the concept doesn't include an Arachnos Mace - besides, I like Mu Mastery. This combo seems like it'd be a pretty solid one, despite the relative frailty of the pets. I'm a bit wary of the leveling experience though. Before I get all my tools for personal/pet survival, it seems like it could be a very rough ride.

Thugs(or Bots)/Pain/Any - Both Bots and Thugs seem like a good pairing for Pain Domination, and I'll admit that I found Deacon's reasoning solid. Conceptually, I could actually make either set work but I'm leaning a bit towards Thugs. I also worry about the leveling experience of both combos, because I tried leveling a Bots/Pain once and got bored with it pretty early on.

Mercs/Dark/Any - I know, I know. Mercs are bad. But looking at the secondary sets, I think you'd be hard pressed to find one that would match better than Dark. This combo has the advantage of getting Twilight's Grasp and Darkest Night very early, allowing me to get a taste of the finished product a little sooner than the other combos. This, I think, is my favorite option. Would it be a major failure or would it be decent?

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

That is incorrect. All of the resists do not suppress (World of Pain) nor does all of the regen (health). How long is the suppression? As long as it takes to use a break free. Sorry, but Traps can't come close to the resists of Pain, nor is Triage comparable to Suppress Pain for regen.

Building a good mastermind is downright easy. My nin/time/mace was my first ever character that I IO'd, so I had no experience with IOing whatsoever, and it uses a build that I've never updated, and it is still my strongest character. Yes, that includes my perma-PA ill/rad.

The only conclusion is that MMs are unbelievable badasses.

Very well, I'll sure you base your statements on an extensive hands-on play with a Pain Dom MM. I've put in lots of time with both and based my statement on actual game play; with such conviction obviously your assessment is from field tested experience as well. So what did you pair with the Pain Dom you took to 50?

One: The trapper in this case is taking more than 37% more damage than the PD. That number is not small.

Two: Soft-cap is soft-cap.

Yep, that's math all right.

Last word is all yours. I'm done.