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Help me with a character concept before my head explodes

Arcanaville

By Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-06-18 08:14 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU View Post
Then they are not stupid, they have low "common sense"/wisdom (although that is again debatable, as it varies according to what group/society you are in as well). My reasoning for this is, they are intelligent enough to know that it is raining, but they are not *wise* enough to actually seek cover. Hence they get struck by lightning... this is not intelligence, but wisdom/common sense (thank you old D&D stat explanation)
Which is precisely the dynamic I'm looking for. I think we're just using different definitions of "stupid."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Now, I teach computer science in the university, and I teach it to people who barely know what a computer is and don't own or have access to one. As you can imagine, this is not a positive proposition, and it makes my job quite difficult. I know my students will never remember the exact details of what I'm teaching them, so what I try to have them learn is how to teach themselves. You know, how to approach a computer system, how to go about figuring it out, what to try and what not to try, where to look for certain things. This has given me a rather different view on what "knowledge" constitutes, and I like to call this the knowledge of problem-solving unfamiliar problems.
This would seem to be a difficult perspective to deliver to critter groups in this game.

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Posted

I'm inclined to think tanker rather than brute, scrapper or stalker, I have my thematic reasons but since they're out....

What this reminds me of to some degree is... Wel, it's an SF novella essentially about humans discovering an alien empire (The Centrans) who are both A) slightly more technologically advanced and B) Stupid.

That is, their average IQ (or equivalent) is significantly less than the human average. They built guns that shot a 100 bullets at a time, while human built guns that shot 100 bullets one at a time very, very fast. (which is much more effective)

Anyway, Staff/Regen seems a fun enough combo.

I'm imagining a quasi-feudal or even tribal society, largely governed by ritual and superstition: If they lack common sense they're likely to have to some degree replaced it with rules/customs: Rather than solving problems themselves they'll refer to some kind of precedent (doesen't have to be a big universal set, every family might have it's own rules)

Now, with your character being Enlightened, be it scientific or more esoteric knowledge... ANd well, the entire "Alien Monk" angle.... I'm thinking a Prophet, or at least a teacher. I think of the Buddhas answer to "WHat are you?" "I am awake." your character is a person who has somehow (divine inspiration? Some kind of inner spiritual stuff? Pure intellectual refinement of trial-and-error into a scientific method?) gone from a system of existing (and flawed) knowledge to an apparatus to *acquire* knowledge. Rather than a body of knowledge, what he has is a system for searching out, learning, and telling good knowledge from bad.

I'm thinking of a philosopher/scientist/prophet here: A Bacon-Buddha.

So what he has now is the intellectual apparatus: The right *mindset*. He's not so much got the knowledge-base, but he's got the tools to acquire one.

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

Posted

Scrap that..

http://www.gamegrene.com/node/385 might help with the difference between (at least in a RP sense) Intelligence and Wisdom... kinda, maybe, fingers crossed

Quote:
In conclusion, when roleplaying wisdom and intelligence, here are my handy rules of thumb, paraphrased from a professor of mine: "Intelligence tells you what the problem is and how to solve it, wisdom tells you whether or not you should." Here's another one for good measure: "Intelligence asks, 'What?' Wisdom asks, 'Why?'"

 

Posted

First powerset I thought about with the tough and long-lasting is Regeneration. Staff would fit the knowledge base since it has "forms".
I'd elaborate more but your posts need a proper frame of mine (no offense), reach me in game though if you would like.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down View Post
Would Willpower be out as a pairing for staff?
Well, Willpower seems rather apt for the concept Sam described.

And overall i think War Mace, Titan Weapons, or Staff could all work with the concept. i'm especially fond of Titan Weapons because of the way Momentum slows occasionally feels to me like pausing to assess the tactical situation for a moment before exploding into another series of devastating attacks.

*WHAM* *THWOCK* *CRUNCH*
(...Hmmm, four down, two more moving in on the left, should shift a little to the right to catch them as well...)
*WHAM* *CRUNCH* *THUD*
"I'd like to point out at this point that two thirds of your allies have fallen and we're only 25 seconds into this fight, care to surrender? No?"
*WHAMWHAMWHAM*
"That was not a wise choice."

Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

I could see either a WP/Staff Tank or a Staff/WP Brute fit his concept.

Character could be a sentient plant. The reason his/her race never bothered to learn anything: Their lives were so long, there was always time to learn something "tomorrow". Some plants are so sturdy they can survive nearly anything, and if worse comes to worse the could go dormant till the environment improved. Thus covering your need for them to be "tough".

The gift they received could have been a spore, fungus, or even an insect that "infested the plants" changing how they viewed their world and time. Thus forcing them, because of the changes, to suddenly want to learn things even though they didn't understand why. That was until the infestation died off. There could be numerous possibilities why "it" died off.

As a plant the character could change gender depending on the time of the year, or even be asexual. Sometimes being more effeminate, some times more masculine. (Greater ability to use costumes!)

Anywhosit. Just an idea of a direction.

Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
"This character" is a member of a race of creatures whose primary defining characteristic is that they're generally pretty stupid, but tough and VERY long-lived. They live in a world ruled by superstition, ritual and essentially clueless blundering, surviving on their hardy physique and thick heads more than anything else. At one point, these creatures received a gift of great power and knowledge, but while the others used their new power to wage war and conquer, this character instead took the time to marvel at the beauty of nature, to sample the fruits of culture and to generally try to understand the world, so that it doesn't seem as scary and confusing.

Unfortunately, the great power waned, and these creatures grew stupid once more. No longer able to comprehend, the world once more felt alien, nature looked ugly and culture seemed... Well, stupid and pointless. But the memories of those times remained with this creature.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I
There seems to have been a miscommunication about the level of intelligence of this creature. I meant for it to have started out stupid many centuries ago, but to be quite intelligent by this point. I really don't want to deal with a fool or a "fish out of water" sort of thing, like Wonder Woman not being able to pump gas or use credit cards. More, my quandary is between having this creature just simply intelligent in an academic sense, or outright genius to the point of using and creating advanced technology.
OK, here's my idea. Long ago this species was low-to-average in intelligence by human standards, but compared to humans lacking in self control and long term focus; they had difficulty thinking in anything other than the immediate. Then benevolent aliens encountered them and much like happened to the Rikti decided to "uplift" them, in their case by granting them a brain symbiont as well as some basic technology to get them going. This symbiont acted as a sort of coprocessor, augmenting their intellect to human genius levels and giving them the self control and capacity for long term focus they lacked. Their technology advanced by leaps and bounds, but as you say they mostly misused their new intellect; they went from fighting for momentary advantage, to fighting for conquest.

After a long period of advancement their civilization finally developed biological weapons, and used them - and eventually, one of those weapons killed the symbiont. Suddenly they went from geniuses to normal-or-worse, and their self control and focus was even worse than when they started; they'd leaned on the symbiont for that too much, and indulged their passions too much. They lost most of their civilization and technology, with their short attention span it was a struggle to maintain even the portions they could still understand.

Your character had however spent its time in learning, philosophizing and in honing its own self discipline; when it lost its genius, it still had a greater level of self control and had habituated itself to long term thinking. It also had a great deal of accumulated knowledge and records, where others of its kind had only cared for immediately useful information.

As for appearance; as basically a product of a post-apocalyptic civilization your character can certainly mix tech and primitivism; like high-tech costume parts with Stick Fighting. Especially since it never had much interest in the old high tech warfare in the first place.

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Posted

Interesting concept, Sam.

If I might be so bold, I'd suggest you watch this film. A bit silly, but it helps explain how a society might suddenly find itself dumbed out of its technological accomplishments - social accomodation, favoring of the superficial and its token on the genetic pool, as well as the effects of extended division of labour garbling the purpose of said labour. The net result is that an individual born to such a society is incapable of understanding the knowledge of its ancestors - not only because there's no one left to teach him, but also because he'd mentally unable to process that much information even if a teacher was available.

Onwards to your questions...

Gender: You describe the average member of this society as ambitious and aggressive, whereas your character sounds sensible and contemplative. This would make him (or her) an excentric in the eyes of his peers, and excentricity is almost always accompanied by priviledge, moreso in dumb, primitive societies. Your character's gender would most likely match whatever gender dominated that society at the time they made first contact with whatever empowered them.

Level of intelligence: There are two approaches you can take here, assuming the toon lost not only his knowledge but the actual means to learn it, or at least retain it. One is the slow path, your toon has a very long life in front of him, but he can only wrap his head around so much information at once - he keeps a library or repositorium of sort, and tries to "collect" as much knowledge as he can, hoping he'll one day grow smart enough to start perusing that stored treasure. Then there's the quicker path, he's not so much concerned with acquiring knowlegde as he is at restoring his previous level of intelligence, through any means - mystical, technological, divine, demonic, incarnate, whatever works. Either way, the sky's the limit, that secret library of his could hold the formula to greek fire or the reasoning behind the number 42, just as his quest for superior intelligence could let him ace every aptitude test in the world or tap into Rulaaru levels of awareness.

Brains vs. Brawn: You could combine both, your toon doesn't have to understand the technology he has at his disposal. Look at Valkyrie and Battle-Maiden, maybe he wields a giant plasma sword that used to be mass produced in ancient times, but is now an irreplaceable relic of his people that he holds as dear as his own life. Maybe as he gets smarter, he starts remembering that the blade has a button to adjust its lethality.

Powers: Titan weapons would fit with what I was suggesting above, plus it's a new set that you might not have tried out yet. Invulnerability would give your toon enough innate power to reflect the racial toughness you wish him to portray. Try a brute, the fury bar might amuse you while smashing the tiny ugly people that dare make fun of your toon. *edit* The scrapper's critical hit inherent could be played as your toon's inadvert access of the weapon's higher functions, so there's some potential there as well.

Appearance: Consider what made the first (IV) Star Wars movie different from every other sci-fi movie at the time - future technology, but old and worn out. Your toon probably wishes to carry as much of his glorious past with him as he can, but he can't seem to remember how to fix, or even polish his old power armor without damaging its internal circuits. He can't even remember which pieces go with what, so his outfit is probably a patchwork collection of rusty old things with mismatching colours.

Race/Appearance: Try a musclebound, blueskinned giant with long silver hair and an inbred tendency to smash anything that reminds him of how dumb he's become. Avoid the dumb and ugly cliche, make your toon stunning and desirable even by normal human standards, even if he's completely unaware of it.

Hope your head doesn't explode over this - it happens alot to me as well

 

Posted

I can't help out with much but I do have an idea that while silly may spark other ideas. You've said your working on a Race/Appearance but what about Culture and/or cultural quirks like speaking habits. For example say this race of hypothetical internet trolls placed so much importance on a name that they did not use personal pronouns.

He might introduce himself in this manner, "Hello. Roy is pleased to make your aquaintance. Roy is Roy." And if someone called him stupid for talking like that he might respond with, "Roy not stupid. Roy's people not use personal pronouns. It cultural thing." The lack of be verbs could indicate irritation or anger and a tendency to revert to older speaking habits when in that state.

Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TLR

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
This would seem to be a difficult perspective to deliver to critter groups in this game.
I'm not that concerned with teaching the actual critters in the heat of battle, actually. I tend to view my characters as having lives broader than just the single-minded focus on fighting in City of Heroes, and this is where that comes in. It ties into a common theme among my heroes, which is taking care of the innocent and trying to improve their lives passively, while also combating those who would abuse them and, in this case, trying to impact their lives actively similar to what you'd do in Knights of the Old Republic after defeating a named villain. Everyone deserves a chance, as it were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
I'm imagining a quasi-feudal or even tribal society, largely governed by ritual and superstition: If they lack common sense they're likely to have to some degree replaced it with rules/customs: Rather than solving problems themselves they'll refer to some kind of precedent (doesn't have to be a big universal set, every family might have it's own rules)

Now, with your character being Enlightened, be it scientific or more esoteric knowledge... And well, the entire "Alien Monk" angle.... I'm thinking a Prophet, or at least a teacher. I think of the Buddhist answer to "What are you?" "I am awake." Your character is a person who has gone from a system of existing (and flawed) knowledge to an apparatus to *acquire* knowledge. Rather than a body of knowledge, what he has is a system for searching out, learning, and telling good knowledge from bad.

I'm thinking of a philosopher/scientist/prophet here: A Bacon-Buddha.

So what he has now is the intellectual apparatus: The right *mindset*. He's not so much got the knowledge-base, but he's got the tools to acquire one.
I edited this post down for size, but I wanted to quote as much of it as I could. You, Sir, seem to have gotten inside my head and yanked my idea with the roots to make this post, because that's exactly what I was going for and failing to articulate. Thank you!

This is precisely the kind of society I was after, and why I was so adamant about not giving these people greater intelligence in their past that they have lost but can regain, or a reason for why their intelligence is being suppressed. As in that movie - Ideocracy - that was suggested to me and that I really should watch, it is entirely possible for a society's own social structure to induce not just a lack of intelligence, but a lack of desire and ability to be intelligent in the first place. Even without resorting to science fiction, we've already seen this in the Dark Ages of old Europe. With the fall of the Roman empire and the culture, science and philosophy that propagated, old European societies go back to their past and abandon the progress they had been given. Doctors treat patients based on superstition and tradition, religion rules as a political state and people themselves are superstitious and shaped by the need to survive into not caring about esoteric knowledge, despite the benefits it might bring.

For a more concrete example, consider A Bug's Life, or indeed How to Train Your Dragon for a society so preoccupied with survival and so set in its ways that the one more forward-thinking individual working on improving the lives of everybody receives no help and is given only mockery for his efforts. That's the sort of society I was after - one where low intellect is a product of the social structure and the very people's disinterest in being intelligent much more so than by physical factors. Nuclear war and anti-intelligence magic are not bad ideas, but they give this species excuses in much the same way as being "misunderstood" or "wrongly accused" gives a villain the excuse to be an anti-hero. I want this to be an entirely cultural phenomenon that is being actively perpetuated by the people living today.

The notion of a Buddhist Monk is something I really, REALLY like for this character, as well. That really isn't where I was going with it, having it pointed out to me... I realise that's where I want to go. Of course, this character would probably have been ostracised from his or her own society since unthinking people generally don't appreciate someone sticking a nose in their lives and trying teach them something. In fact, the last sentence here pretty much writes the character for me - this is someone who doesn't so much have a lot of knowledge or very high intelligence, so much as it is someone who has the mindset to learn and acquire those. In my own framework, this isn't necessarily someone who knows how to solve every problem, but more so someone who knows how to examine a problem and figure out where to look for solutions to it. It's less a mass of knowledge and more the willingness and ability to think creatively.

"Monk" also solves the gender issue. As I mentioned, I've been looking for an excuse to remake my Monk lady from Diablo 3, and her being a Monk LADY, that makes the character female, as well as fast, agile and not heavily built. I don't want to go with Staff/SR just because I've done SR a million billion times, but also because I'm not remaking my monk point-for-point, and this creature's story implies some physiological aspect that allows it to be a hardy survivalist and live a very long time.

This leads me into the subject of species. When "plant person" was first suggested to me, I read it as a genderless plant creature sort of like the Swamp Thing or some kind of amalgam of plant material come to life. Having it explained to me again, however, I'm reminded of the Fae from Kingdom of Amalur - one scholar there described them as looking and behaving like people, but having a physiology much more closely related to that of plants. Having this person be no just an ecosystem of plants but a SINGLE plant that simply has the ability to move, talk and think changes everything. It gives me a basic framework of appearance to roll off of, and I think I can make something out of this.

But I REFUSE to use the salad hair

I want to point out that the notion of Titan Weapons slowing down occasionally to do a quick plan for the next few steps ala Robert Downey Jr.'s Sherlock Holmes is INSPIRED, and I'd love to use it... But I have at least two Titan Weapns users, one of them being Titan/Inv (See that face in my sig? That's her ) and I'm still working on a ripoff of War from Darksiders that'll be using that. I like the idea, though, so I'll definitely save that for another character down the line. I have a lot of crazy ideas and I rarely forget them.

Finally, a note on the character's name. I replayed Homeworld 2 recently (great game, AWFUL mission design) and I've been looking for an excuse to use the name of the progenitor dreadnought. This seems like as good an excuse as any, so I'm just going to go ahead and call this character Sajuk. It has a vaguely Arabic sound to it, which makes it exotic in an Eastern US city, plus it has the benefit of being a male-sounding name that I'm going to give to a female character. I really can't tell if English has this, but in my own language, all words have a "gender" based on what suffix they end on, and words that end on a consonant are typically considered to be male, hence why this one works so much for me. Why give a male name to a female? Eh, because it's different and it makes people think a little harder when parsing just what the hell they're teaming with. Works best when used with alien or monster women

Right, I think I have a fully-fledged character now, with some additional work left to do on setting it all up. I have a name, a gender, a relative intelligence level... This being a "plant person monk," I'm thinking less sci-fi gear and more ordinary clothes. I'd say it all works out... Kind of.

I'm still open to suggestions, of course, but I'm happy that it's no longer such a mess inside my head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Well, just so you guys know I'm not just talking of idle musings, I did actually dive into the editor and produce this:



It's not a great costume, but it gets the basic point across, I think. The skin is bio-organic, which I tried to make like a sort of plant texture but it didn't work very well. The rest is a yellow-and-white sort of outfit that I hoped to at least slightly resemble Shao Lin monks. The hair was originally green, but I wanted some more contrast and a friend of mine mentioned using blooming flowers in such a motif, so I decided to go with a flower red sort of hair. And, yeah, I know I picked the most trendy one, but amusingly enough, it's one of the least hair-like hairstyles we have

I decided to ditch the "technological" look entirely and just focus on the "monk" and "scholar" angles a bit more so, plus Staff Fighting lacked a decent technological option, disappointingly enough. I don't think I'm going to do anything to Regeneration... Or possibly I might alter it to be more green and less yellow to match the eye aura. We'll see.

As with everything else, just about anything in this costume is up for debate, since nothing is really final.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.