How do you rank Control sets for Damage?


Argentae

 

Posted

It's funny, I mentioned in another thread that Mind Control could use a revamp, and people actually came to its defense, noting how powerful it is and how it trivializes most content... though this seemed to be coming from people who played Perma-dom Mind Dominators.

My question would be, how to make Mind a better set for Controllers without making it even more OP for Doms?

In the post I linked, I suggested either replacing TK with an AoE version of Levitate, or turning the "confuse" mechanic (JUST for MC, mind you) into a "Turn foes into pets" power and allow you to control them mastermind style via the pet window...

... the hassle of having a 16-large pet window would still be worth it =P


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
It's funny, I mentioned in another thread that Mind Control could use a revamp, and people actually came to its defense, noting how powerful it is and how it trivializes most content... though this seemed to be coming from people who played Perma-dom Mind Dominators.

My question would be, how to make Mind a better set for Controllers without making it even more OP for Doms?

In the post I linked, I suggested either replacing TK with an AoE version of Levitate, or turning the "confuse" mechanic (JUST for MC, mind you) into a "Turn foes into pets" power and allow you to control them mastermind style via the pet window...

... the hassle of having a 16-large pet window would still be worth it =P
I have Mind/Storm at 50, a Mind/FF at 45 and a Mind/Energy Dom at 50 . . . I prefer the Dominator.

How to fix/improve Mind Control? First, shorten the Recharge on Mass Confusion to make it comparable to Synaptic Overload. I think this is the number one complaint about Mind Control.

Second, the next biggest complaint is a lack of Containment. So change Teke to a cone Stun power -- kind of a mental overload. That would give it Containment. OR turn Mass Hypnosis into some kind of pulsing sleep, similar to Static Field.

It is OK if it is lower damage, as long as it has superior control.


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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

I find mind to be pitiful on Doms as well...I barely kill things so I just gave up and focused only on control.



 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Snip.
I have to agree with Local here, really. At least, in some cases. You aren't giving Phantom Army's AoE enough credit, unreliable it may be. To also suggest that anything you listed above it (Aside from Fire and MAYBE Plant) beat it at Single Target, is just not feasible.

The power of five pets plus Spectral Wounds would shoot it above Dark, easily. Dark has 2 Terrible Pets for damage (aside from maybe some Proc Manipulation but YMMV), the Umbra Beast is alright but it's prone to being an Idiot. The ST Attacks in it are fairly average. But it does sport a good AoE Immo for damage.

How this beats Phantom Army's ceaseless attack chain + Phanty and Little Brother + Spectral Wounds = What?

Gravity Control has the arguably superior ST chain, but Singularity is NOT beating five pets. Singy is also prone to being retarded, but IS a good pet. I don't see Gravity winning in ST, and Gravity's AoE is limited to one of the lesser AoE Containment Immos, and obviously Fireball. If your value is AoE over ST, this is an Illogical Choice because Gravity arguably has less AoE, unless ALL the value is on Containment Fireball.

Plant is obviously amazing, and I do have a 50 Plant. But the Damage it inflicts to... itself always confused me. if that's what it is doing. This also means it can also 'skew' things up because, if it DOES damage itself, it procs on itself too. That all said, Plant has strong damage. I DO question it's ST damage, however. Strangler and Entangle are GARBAGE powers, really. You'd entirely relying on Audrey, who tends to blow up still but is a good pet, and Creepers with out bodies isn't that good.

I do not see Plants ST Damage. it IS an AoE leader, but it's ST? I don't think so.

Fire obviously has the best in Holds and Immos for damage, and it's AoE Mob is up there too. The Fire Imps are deadly, but squishy, and Hot Feet is great. It does deserve that place.

TL;DR-

I think Plant is badly overestimated. Amazing AoE but it's ST isn't there unless you have bodies. This makes it a bit more situational, and less reliable than Fire.

Dark seems high. This suggests a very heavy emphasis on procs. But, that was noted before.

Gravity seems fine, but I can't swallow it beating Illusion. Equal perhaps, but Illusion got WAY too much flack for not having a generic AoE Immo. But your opinions are obviously your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
I find mind to be pitiful on Doms as well...I barely kill things so I just gave up and focused only on control.
Mind Control is overpowered as sin on Dominators. ESPECIALLY in PVP.


 

Posted

Well could you tell me what I'm doing wrong? lmao it just seems inferior to Gravity's ST chain. I even have mind proc'd out but still meh. I guess since I'm still a lowbie I can't see it (lvl 23) but I'm going to finally level one to see how I feel about it. Oh and I don't do PVP...EVER.

I also agree with Reppu Plant is very situational and it's St damage is poor. Plant is amazing but nothing beats the survival of Perma PA control wise NOTHING.

Illusion is such a weird one to compare with but it's damage is impressive and mixed with a lot of survivability...it can be confusing on how to really rate it. one can take out a -1/+8 mob with just one summon of PA and pals...actually I need to make Ill/cold or Ill/Poison already....*mumble* need more slots.



 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
Well could you tell me what I'm doing wrong? lmao it just seems inferior to Gravity's ST chain. I even have mind proc'd out but still meh. I guess since I'm still a lowbie I can't see it (lvl 23) but I'm going to finally level one to see how I feel about it. Oh and I don't do PVP...EVER.

I also agree with Reppu Plant is very situational and it's St damage is poor. Plant is amazing but nothing beats the survival of Perma PA control wise NOTHING.

Illusion is such a weird one to compare with but it's damage is impressive and mixed with a lot of survivability...it can be confusing on how to really rate it. one can take out a -1/+8 mob with just one summon of PA and pals...actually I need to make Ill/cold or Ill/Poison already....*mumble* need more slots.
Dominators seldom do damage with their primary ;P That's what you're likely doing wrong.


 

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Originally Posted by Reppu View Post
Dominators seldom do damage with their primary ;P That's what you're likely doing wrong.
*facepalm* Oh You! lol



 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Local_Man View Post
I have Mind/Storm at 50, a Mind/FF at 45 and a Mind/Energy Dom at 50 . . . I prefer the Dominator.

How to fix/improve Mind Control? First, shorten the Recharge on Mass Confusion to make it comparable to Synaptic Overload. I think this is the number one complaint about Mind Control.

Second, the next biggest complaint is a lack of Containment. So change Teke to a cone Stun power -- kind of a mental overload. That would give it Containment. OR turn Mass Hypnosis into some kind of pulsing sleep, similar to Static Field.

It is OK if it is lower damage, as long as it has superior control.

I agree with most of this. Especially changing the recharge on Mass Confusion.

I would consider allowing Confusion to count for Containment (it does for the psuedo-Containment in Hybrid incarnate).

That would leave Mind without an immobilize for the damage but a very competitive power in Mass Confusion.

Mind Control on Dominators is good but at least in my personal opinion not substantially better than other Dominator sets. It still takes a relative eternity for powers to recharge and Terrorize without Immobilize often makes enemies run off. In incarnate content specifically, I often found myself facing mobs with no AoE ready for them and forced to use Terrify, which allows them to counter with an attack and has no debuff (compare with Dark, which has both a -ToHit buff and does not allow a counter).

It should be noted that I am a particular fan of Mass Hypnosis though... on Corruptors in their Psi APP.