DA the end hog

I know, dead horse. I didn't do a search for it, but I'd really like to see Dark Regeneration be more along the lines of Drain Psyche. At least FA and EA get something for end recovery, and both have decent AoE damage. Throw the darn set a bone guys

Throw a Theft of Essence: Chance for +end in Dark Regen, it works wonders. Grab the 2 +end accolades when you can. Avoid running Death Shroud and Cloak of Fear at the same time. (I generally skip CoF anyway.)

My DA/DM tank is fairly well IOd and I am running 10 toggles without end issues. It can be managed.

It IS notoriously hard on endurance, but it's always been manageable, and we've been given more and more tools for managing it over the years.

Granted, this is with an end-game unlimited-budget build, but I run 13 toggles and fight full speed while recovering endurance at over 0.5 EPS. On top of that, I have 69.2% endurance debuff resistance. I'm the one with no endurance problems while my teammates are getting destroyed by debuffs and drains. I have a nice shiny column of top tier blues, just in case, but I probably need to rethink that, because just in case never happens.

I did take Cardiac Core, which is HUGE, but I had a sustainable endurance build before incarnate powers came along.

As already mentioned, the Theft of Essence proc does wonders for Dark Regeneration, and I'm with ClawsAndEffect in not wanting the devs to touch this power.

As already mentioned, until you have a build like this, get used to toggle management and not using toggles that you don't need for a particular fight. Understand what each does, and turn it off when it isn't useful. Fighting an AV? Don't bother with Cloak of Fear. Hitting at 95% without Tactics? Turn it off. Those are my main two that I still do out of habit, even though the build doesn't really call for it any more.

While leveling, use Oppressive Gloom instead of Cloak of Fear.

Grab a knockback IO for knockback protection instead of Acrobatics. I usually level with just one, though I have 14 points of protection on my current build.

Combat Jumping instead of Hover.

Don't leave Sprint on. Some people like to do this. Get around with Combat Jumping instead.

It does seem like Cloak of Fear is weak compared to Oppressive Gloom on most builds. It's better on some, though, despite the endurance cost and accuracy issues. I wouldn't mind if it got buffed a bit though. I'd like to see more people be able to take it.

Also, it's arguably just a mental game, but think of Death Shroud as an attack instead of a toggle. It's an extra attack that takes 0 seconds to activate and gives you AoE damage for single-target endurance. Thought of that way, it's a great attack, and well worth the endurance cost.

I run 11 toggles on my Kat/DA brute and no issues, that includes cloak of fear full time...

I run 11 toggles on my DA/Fire tank without issues, though I went with OG on that build because I couldn't get CoF to work with the end recovery I have.

Now, both toons have TFC, PJ, FPR, AM accolades...that helps a bit, and I used agility alpha for both of them...(+end mod/recharge/defense)

Thanks for the input. Should have just posted my build for advice, spoiled by other sets I guess. Haven't played this much in the last 5 years so here's something I'm working on.
I'm sure BS isn't doing me any favors. It was the first character I rolled, so I wanted to at least make it a playable build for incarnate content.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Hack KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), HO:Nucle(17)
Level 1: Dark Embrace RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15)
Level 2: Death Shroud Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(7), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Armgdn-Dam%(13), FotG-ResDeb%(37)
Level 4: Hasten RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(5)
Level 6: Build Up RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 8: Murky Cloud RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield HO:Ribo(A)
Level 12: Super Speed Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Boxing KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(46), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration Theft-+End%(A), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(17), Acc-I(36)
Level 18: Whirling Sword Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(29), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21)
Level 22: Tough S'fstPrt-ResKB(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), GA-3defTpProc(23), GA-End/Res(46)
Level 24: Weave LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), Ksmt-ToHit+(40)
Level 26: Disembowel SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg(A), SScrappersS-Dmg/Rchg(31), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SScrappersS-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SScrappersS-Rchg/+Crit(36)
Level 28: Maneuvers LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 30: Super Jump Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 32: Head Splitter Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Cloak of Fear SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(39), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(39), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SipInsght-%ToHit(40)
Level 41: Char BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(42), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42)
Level 44: Melt Armor ShldBrk-DefDeb(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(45), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Ragnrk-Knock%(50)
Level 49: Parry Acc-I(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift Empty(A)
Level 2: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Hurdle Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-End%(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(27)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------



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Broad Sword isn't particularly heavy on endurance overall, and it pairs wonderfully with Dark Armor.

On brief glance, your build looks pretty good. The difficult decision would be dropping Agility for Cardiac Core, but that would probably solve the endurance problem. Dark Regeneration will still be a little painful since it has next to no endurance reduction, but finding slots to address that could be difficult.

My build is fairly different philosophically, but I'll throw it out there for amusement. Positional defense vs. typed/mixed, using Parry vs. not using it, Cardiac vs. Agility, Body Mastery for endurance vs. Blaze Mastery for damage output. I give up quite a bit of recharge (though my recharge on Dark Regeneration is faster). I have quite a bit more resistance and hit points. I'd say mine's more of an indefinite survivability build, while yours is more of a bursty damage build.

I used to advocate soft-capping Dark Armor. You still can, but in the end game, 45% doesn't mean much these days. So I dropped ranged and AoE a little below 40%, bumped melee/lethal further into the stratosphere, and called it good.

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I have a DB/DA Brute and a Claws/DA Scrapper and their end bars barely move. Granted, I have 3 +end procs, Cardiac Core, Miracle/Numina, and a ToE proc in Dark Regen.

DA Becomes incredibly powerful when you remove endurance from the equation and build up some +def bonuses.

Can we get some folks chiming in here that run Dark Armor on SOs? If a set requires IOs to be good, then there's problems with the set.

And no, I'm not railing on Dark Armor. I've leveled it to 50, IO'd and Incarnate'd it out and everything. I love the set. I'm just speaking generally. If someone complains about a set, saying "IOs make it all better" or showing off IO'd builds really doesn't settle anything. The game is balanced around SOs, not IOs.

Bubblerella has a high end IO'd and incarnated build. So posting one for comparison that doesn't have any endurance problems seemed appropriate, and more so than posting about SO experiences.

I don't think I'd want to play Dark Armor on only SOs, but I'm not sure that says much since I wouldn't want to play most sets on only SOs. I level most characters using mostly SOs, but pick up critical IOs where relevant, like knockback protection and the Miracle and Numina uniques, so my leveling experience of the endurance requirements (manageable) won't be a pure SO experience.

So you could perhaps argue that Dark Armor needs a buff since it's perhaps painful on nothing but SOs. But just because the devs want the game to be playable on SOs doesn't mean they ignore IO'd builds when dealing with balance. I'd say that's particularly true in the modern game where they can collect more money by pushing people towards IOs. But IOs don't seem necessary unless you like playing at high difficulty levels.

Anyway, I believe the initial post was specifically on throwing Dark Regeneration a bone. I don't feel that it needs a bone. It's already one of the best heals in the game. On purely SOs, all that awesome is going to cost you, but spending 1/3 of your endurance bar (unslotted) to go from 1 hp to full hit points is still a nice trade, plus on SOs you'd probably slot heavily for endurance reduction, so maybe it's 1/6 of your endurance bar for a full heal. Pack a bunch of blues if you want to spam the heal, or maybe you'd do better with purples and needing the heal less.

Mind you, I AM curious if there is anyone playing it on SOs, and what their experience has been, but the devs have data mining where we only have anecdote.

There's a difference between "IOs aren't required" and "SO-only is the way it is meant to be played." SO-only is a supported playstyle, as is going all out. Think of it as the minimum system requirements: you could (in the past) have played with only training enhancements all the way to 50 but the devs never told anyone that would be a good idea. If you played a SO-only dark scrapper today on difficulty settings that resembled the old five-tier slider you would be completely fine in virtually all cases. That's assuming intelligent SO slotting with consideration for things like endurance reduction and ED.

The reason many of us enjoy dark armor so much is that it scales very well with investment. Compare it to super reflexes, for example. Both sets are viable with SOs, but super reflexes can practically hit its peak efficacy using SOs alone*. Dark armor just keeps improving as you stack on more goodies. I'd go further and say that one of the coolest things about dark armor is that people can and do take high end builds in a wide variety of directions whereas with some sets and combinations the "correct" build is set in stone. See the five million identical SS/FA/Mu build advice threads in the brute forum.

Has anyone ever asked how that combination performs on SOs only? I think we might have a balance disaster on our hands! Devs, re-evaluate super strength!

*slight exaggeration

Er, in that case the answer is yes it has, for like eight years? Were you expecting someone to say, "By Jove, using SOs? Why hasn't anyone ever thought of that?"

Completely anecdotal; when I started my DA/KM tank, I had only 2 other characters under my belt (ElM/Invuln Brute and Kin/Dark Def) so I was still learning. I didn't have IOs to put in her and I was still learning the system (still am, really). I was having a helluva time playing her, but it wasn't so much Dark Regeneration that was the problem (which was 6 slotted early on with 2 ACC, 2 END RED and 2 RECH SOs). I was such a noob that I didn't have my attacks slotted with END RED. My biggest problem were my attacks. Sure, DR still supped at the blue bar, but that's a small price to pay when you're going from 10 HP to full. You just have to be more choosy about it's use on a SO build than when IOed. The other big thing is the lack of -KB, especially on a tank, but I'd prolly feel the same on a scrapper. To me, that's actually a bigger issue with the set on SOs than the END costs. Truthfully, I still have her on Common IOs/SOs, save for the ToE proc, 2 Perf Shifter Procs, Steadfast +Def and 3 -KB IOs and she's a beast. I've added Cardiac Tier 2 and her blue bar barely moves and when she uses DR, she usually gets an END increase. And this is in +2/x6 DA content (which I think you can pretty much stop the SOs discussion once you get past +1/x2 since you're starting to get way outside 'normal' play parameters which is the whole balanced around SOs discussion).

If they were "allowed" in this thought process, I'd eventually replace the three end redux SOs with Golgi Hami-Os in Werner's slotting.

SO only build for a Dark/Elec tank...


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

SO only build: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- ResDam(A), ResDam(3), ResDam(3), EndRdx(5)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), EndRdx(7), Dmg(7)
Level 2: Havoc Punch -- Acc(A), Dmg(9), EndRdx(9), RechRdx(11), Dmg(11)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- ResDam(A), ResDam(15), ResDam(17), EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam(19), ResDam(19), EndRdx(21)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(21)
Level 10: Dark Regeneration -- Acc(A), EndRdx(23), EndRdx(23), EndRdx(25), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(27)
Level 12: Taunt -- RechRdx(A)
Level 14: Death Shroud -- Acc(A), EndRdx(29), EndRdx(29), Dmg(27), Dmg(31), Dmg(31)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- Acc(A), Dmg(31), EndRdx(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33), Dmg(34)
Level 18: Super Jump -- EndRdx(A)
Level 20: Build Up -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(34)
Level 22: Acrobatics -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(36), KBDist(36)
Level 24: Recall Friend -- EndRdx(A)
Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- Dsrnt(A)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- Acc(A), Dmg(36), EndRdx(37), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(37), Dmg(39)
Level 30: Cloak of Darkness -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(39), DefBuff(39), DefBuff(40), DefBuff(40)
Level 32: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx(A)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(42)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Acc(A), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), RechRdx(43), RechRdx(43), RechRdx(43)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- EndMod(A), EndMod(45), EndMod(45)
Level 44: Spring Attack -- Acc(A), Dmg(45), RechRdx(46), RechRdx(46), EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Jacobs Ladder -- Acc(A), Dmg(48), EndRdx(48), RechRdx(48), Dmg(50)
Level 49: Laser Beam Eyes -- Acc(A), Dmg(50), EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(13), EndMod(15)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------

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Sorry, Xz, gotta agree with all the others, and disagree with you.

1) On SOs alone, DA does fine vs +2/x1, which was the max possible setting pre IOs. It'll still do fine on that. Sure, you'll want to carry blues, purples and greens, but what set out there doesn't need to ever use Inspirs on SOs alone? Not many. DAs strength on SOs alone is no real weakness other than being end costly, and thus needing to be slotted infor end reduction. Invuls got a gaping Psi hole, tho, and that weakness is harder to cover even with IOs, and is impossible (preIncarnate SO only) to do anything about. So, as for balanced for SOs, DA is. It's *weakness* is that it requires toggle management.

2) The OP didn't mention a thing about disliking the set from a standpoint of SOs only anyhow so replies about IOs that help fix the issue addressed in the OP are quite relevant, unless the SO later clarifies and states that SO only is the standard being discussed.

3) When was the last time the Devs were on record as stating that the game was balanced around SOs and *not* around IOs? I don't know personally (so I'll want to see a link), but I bet it isn't recent. They devs are also on record as stating that the real numbers wouldn't be shown, either, but that is demonstrably a thing of the past. I think it can be argued that 'balanced around SOs and *not* IOs' is also a thing of the distant past. I think if you saw anything about how the game was balanced recently (post I13) and it mentioned being balanced around SOs, that it was also understood that it also balances around IOs equally, or even more so, and that perhaps that you read into that something that wasn't there.




That said, to the OP.. Yes, it's a good set. It sucks end, and Dark Regen really sucks end. It can be a bear to level on SOs alone. Practice toggle management if you are in SO only mode and for the love of all that's good and cuddley, slot end reduction in toggles AND attacks and DR. If you have access to IOs, use them. The ToE and Perf Shift procs along with Numi and Miracle uniques, and some frankenslotting make a huge difference.

I'll add my voice to those that don't want to see DA messed with (although if any change was going to be made, the CoF power, not DR, probably does need some love, but even that is bearable).

I'm in the home stretch of a BS/DA Brute,a nd I've had my end issue largely under control since lvl 30-35ish. They did come back some when I added Focused Accuracy into the mix, but I avoid leaving that running all the time and don't have too much trouble. I'm expecting that after I finish my IOing that the end issues will be largely fixed again, but it there is any residual problem, Cardiac will likely be the end of it. I intentionally took FA at lvl 44, and my IO set bonuses that provide end help are at levels so as to have them available exemped to lvl 44 so once the issues are solved, they likely won't resurface ever. My point if that it's quite manageable. I wans't heavily IOed all the way. Mostly I was on SOs and frnkenslotting. But yes, it's a tricky set to manage, and get used to, and build well, but once you get the hang of it, you'll likely be in love with it, and like most of the rest of us here, won't want to see it changed, either.

I'm leveling a Staff/DA Scrapper (currently level 18), and even with four toggles running (Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud, Obsidian Shield and Death Shroud) it does very well in terms of endurance. A lot of this is owed to Form of the Soul, which grants around 25% endurance discount at three levels of perfection. With SOs, this build should have very little downtime.