Pre ED vs. IO's/Incarnate


BunnyAnomaly

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
Word of advice. . .never tell the other person what he said (unless you're going to quote them and show them in contradiction) say what you understood.

It represents a barrier. The level of subjective significance is all in if you get past the barrier or not.
It seems like your argument has dissolved down to the point of reaching 'getting out of bed is a barrier to play COX'. Everything in life has some kind of investment and so your argument above is entirely trivial.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
I thinnk its rather funny how many people think they are so witty to find something funny. Because when the conversation is about what is/was POSSIBLE you're talking about the limits, not the run of the mill and not the suboptimal.
Not trying to be witty at all, but the only case in which there is a significant barrier is a top-end IO build, and even then most of that barrier is the knowledge needed to plan it. There really isn't that much of a difference, in my opinion, to what it was back then. Pre-ED you needed to know which were the top-end powerset combinations, get one of those to 50, and spend enough time to fill each of your carefully placed slots with HOs. Now the powerset combination holds less of an importance while carefully placing and filling your slots is the more important factor. I'd bet getting those HOs is no less of a barrier than it is to get IOs for this "most people" you speak of. At least I find it much more feasible getting IOs, because I can get them on my own schedule, not on the Hami raid schedule.

Getting a good IO build doesn't even require that much know-how or risk taking if you have patience, I finished my first top-end builds by getting 10-20mil daily profits playing the market with very low-risk items (uncommon IOs I bought for a few hundred thousand and sold for a few mil). Anyone can do that, it's not really that hard looking at the buy recipe -> sell finished product conversion*. Of course, without the patience needed to learn this thing in the first place, it'll be very unlikely the person has the patience to actually reach the goal of an IO build later as opposed to right now...


*I'll even give you an example: if a recipe sells for an average of 1mil (if you wait a day or two), salvage costs a few hundred thousand, crafting fee another few hundred thousand and the actual enhancement sells for 5mil, it is obvious profit if you're willing to do the "work" to find out all of this. I do agree it's a bit tedious crafting enhancements, but it is far less tedious than farming for hours on end and that tediousness rewards me with giving me powerful builds to do fun stuff with. Notice the quotation marks around the word work, I really can't consider it work spending a couple of minutes typing a few words into a search engine and doing some first grade maths.


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
Word of advice. . .never tell the other person what he said (unless you're going to quote them and show them in contradiction) say what you understood.
Based on how you are posting here, advice from you on how to post is the last thing I would ever consider.

Look, you came in the thread proclaiming that those of us talking about IOs were acting like there was no barrier to obtaining. The implication that the barrier is meaningful is so obvious it could put people's eyes out, because if it's not meaningful, then it's not particularly worth mentioning.

So if the barrier is not meaningful, then what in the bloody hell was your point in posting about the fact that it was being overlooked?

Either you're being wildly obtuse or you're backpedaling now.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
Influence and money grow on trees now?
Well, it does rain from the sky in such great deluges some must get caught up on the branches.
So, I'd answer a qualified "yes".


Quote:
I think you could have cut that sentence off after the fourth word and been plenty accurate.
Then your track record of being utterly wrong about everything in this thread remains unblemished.
Gratz!


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

So, I've been out of the loop for a while and still don't have a terrific grip on what stuff costs these days, but for the sake of argument let's peg the value of a 'good' IO build at, say, 100 million inf. Not frankenslotted, not a Mid's Platinum Plated Uber Build, just a nice, solid, performance added set IO build.

If I'm way off with that estimate, someone let me know.


Anyway, you can make 100m inf in this game in about two minutes- pick up some Super Packs, sell the ATOs at the going rate, voila!
There's your Uber Build.

Now, some will say "but that's random, you can't know blah blah blah!"
Well, it is random and it isn't. The devs have their thumbs on the scale and you'll always get a fair proportion of "good" stuff with your packs. So it's random, but not in the way recipe or salvage is random.

I bought about 30 packs chasing the Elemental Order costume set and the ATO's I sold brought in about 500m. The Brute and Blaster ones I slotted, the Kheldian ones are still sitting in email while I ponder whether it's worth converting them or not.

That takes absolutely no effort at all.
Get packs, burn packs, sell junk.

And I guess you don't even have to buy them, you can pick them up with tokens- I consider tokens more valuable than $$$ so I wouldn't go that route, but if you have a lot of tokens and you don't particularly like the VIP costume sets, it's an option.


I logged in my crafter, Crafticus, last week and made a bunch of generics.
I figured the weekend was going to be big, so I churned out 30-odd level 40 *Redacted* generics, a perennial seller from way back. Checked in this AM and they'd all sold for between 600k and 1m, netting me in the neighborhood of 25 m.

Figuring 15 million is a sustainable weekly total for a few minutes of "work" he's have his 100m bankroll in a little over a month, if that's the only effort he made.

Of course, this character worked up a 120m bankroll in the process of getting his Field Crafter accolade, so.....


I have another character that has been compulsively buying up piles of big inspirations cheap, usually oranges & rez's, combining them into big purples & selling the result for between 500k & 1m.

I buy at around 10k, so it's spending 30k to make 650k on average.
It isn't actually very efficient on a per-slot basis, but it's something literally anyone can do to print 'free' money. Place bids before you log out, combine and list when you log on. Eventually you'll have your 100m.


Another, slighly more exotic but still far from difficult method is find an IO people like, buy the recipe cheap (bid around 1/2 the 'last 5' and you should be fine), craft it and list the IO for whatever people think its worth. This is more efficient than any of the above methods, but does require a bit of legwork and more up-front expense.

There are always huge numbers of 'good' IOs people would rather buy crafted than fiddle with themselves. Tracking one down that you can make for less than 100k total and sell for 5-10m is child's play.


These are just a few of the more obvious methods to make inf. There are many, many, many more, generally vastly more efficient & profitable.

But the pretense that there's some insurmountable barrier to a good IO build is pure nonsense and needs to be refuted.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
-snip-
But what about the people who don't want anything to do with the market?






- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSorrow View Post
But what about the people who don't want anything to do with the market?
*shakes hooves in impotent rage*


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

I'd say if you wanted a good build as fast as one used to be able to complete one you're probably looking at something more along the lines of 500 million. Possibly up to a billion if you're buying it all now and playing power sets that have been recently popular for whatever reason. If you're very patient, or have the foresight to begin buying your enhancements on the character's creation and before it actually needs them, then a couple hundred mil should certainly suffice.

The extent to which converters have smoothed out prices has impressed me. I don't think they have anything to do with the relative scarcity I've been noticing of things like mid-level uncommons, but they certainly deflated the heck out of purples and PvPs. Even if one were to accept my hypothesis that the mid-range build is now slightly dearer than it was a year ago, the other side of that coin is that high end builds are now vastly cheaper than they had been since about a year after the introduction of purples. I was pretty proud of a fifteen billion inf character I made last year, now I'm making better ones for less than a third of that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
This game's market and various other means of obtaining "stuff" are, from what I can tell, some of the most hands-off, easy to use for a "layman" in MMO-dom. I believe it's harder to figure out how to put IOs to good use than it is to obtain them, in terms of the game knowledge required.

Those who have no understanding of how influence is made are those who have not tried to learn, do not want to, or have learned and prefer not to use the knowledge. While only the first can easily be changed, the player does have to make the effort to do so.
OMG, this right here x50!

This is so true that because of this game alone, it's why I have a hard time making money in other games. The moment I step out of this game and into another, kill about 10 guys and I go, "HEY!? Where is my money!?". Don't even get me started about using the market/Auction House in other games. In this game, you don't have "learn the ways of the Auction House" to make money if you don' want to. Get a drop, walk in see if it sell, throw it up in there and make your money, go on about your day. Other games I have to first get a bloody drop, then make my way to the market, only to find out, I don't even have the money to throw this in the auction house for more then an hour let long the whole day. Then I have to farm money to even make money. In this game when you hear farming it's not cause it's the only way to make money, it more then often then not someone who is a min/max that just wants to make there character as strong as they can as soon as they can, and you know what I am all for them being able to do that, in other games it's a lot easier said then done.

But sorry on topic. Way I see it the only reason I would call Pre ED stronger is cause of the aggro and target cap. In terms of raw power (no counting how many targets we can hit) I'd say if we are not on the same level then higher, or not too far.

To me it's hard to pin it all on ED cause somethings where nerfed across the board while others had changes made. My case in point Regen. My main was a Regen till the change, and truth be told it wasn't so much of not being able to slot all my powers with damage or Recharge, it was more so from having or second Regen toggle change into a click power on a long recharge. Have two toggles doing some very good Regen going and we have a level of Regen that would make Hulk blush. Once that second toggle got turned into a click power, was then I realize just how much damage I really was taking back then. Heck back then the only thing that drop me would be a group of Carnies, and I am no great player, take someone like Geko and I bet he would have tap dance all over their head back on old Regen (if he doesn't still now XD ).

I don't know I am trying to get back into Regen after all this time now, but it makes it hard when Willpower keeps winking at me and telling me how much better she is then my Ex Regen over here who keeps asking me when am I gonna take out the trash and wash the dishes. >.> Willpower on the other hand order that pizza I like with that thing that I like, and that move I love...you get the point...