You do realize that Force Fields is one of the few secondaries that can actually "make" Ninjas live longer, right? I mean ... Force Fields turn Ninjas into a gang of Super Reflex Scrappers who have the power of NO GET HITSU!! Of course they're going to live long enough to dish out their damage, once they can dodge hits and still dish out their damage.
The problem is that if you don't pick the "right" secondary for Ninjas so as to help them LIVE ... they fold like pre-creased origami rice paper and don't even make decent speed bumps.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
My favorite MM (Hanano) is ninja/FF, and while she and the boys actually do pretty darn well for themselves considering the set's reputation... certainly better than the Unquiet Bride (necro/thermal) and her zombies do in most cases... I'm still not at all sure I would call ninjas "the best" pet set.
I've seen equally well-equipped, equally Incarnated bots/time, thugs/pain and demons/thermal MMs all tear a hole through things that would absolutely have eaten Han and her guys alive. 
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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Um...I think you're putting your henchmen in bodyguard mode here....|
Originally Posted by SevyDuce
- Don't use bodyguard mode. ... - Pull. You do this by selecting a target, hitting attack, and then immediately click follow (defensive). They will run back to you and only attack the pulled target, putting distance between you and the mob whenever necessary. |
And ninjas *by themselves* are the issue. Pretty sure the /time and /ff secondaries are routinely referenced as the combinations with the greatest synergies. Now if the op addressed the hidden gem of ninjas/sonic ... like woah then...
Nonetheless, glad you like the set and welcome to the forums!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
...[I]t would be more proper to say this game is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly dying.
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Not only FF, but also Traps, Time, Dark, and Storm (what is -ToHit but another name for +Def, anyway?) will greatly help keep Ninjas alive (special shout out to Storm for being able to slot Rech-Intense Pet IOs), which is half of the secondaries.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
You do realize that Force Fields is one of the few secondaries that can actually "make" Ninjas live longer, right? I mean ... Force Fields turn Ninjas into a gang of Super Reflex Scrappers who have the power of NO GET HITSU!! Of course they're going to live long enough to dish out their damage, once they can dodge hits and still dish out their damage.
The problem is that if you don't pick the "right" secondary for Ninjas so as to help them LIVE ... they fold like pre-creased origami rice paper and don't even make decent speed bumps. |
Not surprisingly, sets that are good at keeping pets alive are good at keeping pets alive, but I think the additional survivability given to Ninjas give them a bigger boost than the additional survivability given to other pets, since Ninjas start off with crazy ST (and pretty good AoE) damage anyway.
I got a ninja/trick arrow to 35 wut? >.>
Well my ninja/dark is definitely a crazy powerhouse, easily my char with the strongest sustained ST damage ... aslong as everything is going well.
Theoretically Ninja/Storm would be even stronger though ... Doing 30% more damage due to -resist is really all the rage i heard 
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haha, yes I know that I came off a little happy-go-lucky there. I read so much about some of the negative aspects of the Ninja/ being too weak, and I just wanted to express how much I absolutely love the set.
I have to admit though, cockiness led me to get my butt handed to me the other night. I also noticed that the freaking Rikti monkeys and their mind control send my ninjas scattering. Very annoying. That and the Knives with their aoe....ninjas hate that, lol
SevTheMind: Ninja/Force Field Mastermind (main), SevTheSav: Stone/Regen Brute SevTheShocker: Claws/Electric Brute,SevTheComet: Fire/Pain Corruptor,SevTheSaint: Illusion/Radiation Controller,SevTheShaft: Dual Pistols/Devices Blaster,SevTheSuave: Mind/Dark Dominator,SevTheDevv: Demon/Dark Mastermind (redside),SevTheCinder: Fire/Fire Blaster (Praetoria)
If only ninjas wouldn't get 1hit kill by almost anything average they would be one of the stronger primary out there.
Outside of that the DMG they can dish is more than amazing
I want /Fire stalker. Because nothing says stealth like dumping a can of gasoline on yourself and lighting a match. -Morac
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People are not stating that ninja is weak, at least not damage-wise. Its that the issues with the AI and their inherently terrible survivability makes them a chore to play.|
Originally Posted by SevyDuce
haha, yes I know that I came off a little happy-go-lucky there. I read so much about some of the negative aspects of the Ninja/ being too weak, and I just wanted to express how much I absolutely love the set.
I have to admit though, cockiness led me to get my butt handed to me the other night. I also noticed that the freaking Rikti monkeys and their mind control send my ninjas scattering. Very annoying. That and the Knives with their aoe....ninjas hate that, lol |
To be successful, you basically devote the entirety of your build in making them survivable enough to kill the enemy before they get massacred. (which is why secondaries like /FF, /Time, /Dark are recommended)
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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Indeed that is exactly what I've done. I didn't take a personal attack power until lvl 35 from the Epic pool. I've got every possible force field and defensive buff I could get for them....and myself.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
People are not stating that ninja is weak, at least not damage-wise. Its that the issues with the AI and their inherently terrible survivability makes them a chore to play.
To be successful, you basically devote the entirety of your build in making them survivable enough to kill the enemy before they get massacred. (which is why secondaries like /FF, /Time, /Dark are recommended) |
Well, I've also been known to love torture, so maybe this suites me just fine.
It's not just the damage, but it's their quickness. Robotics deals a lot of damage, but they are so slow! Ninjas move quick and their powers have high attack rates, so it makes their damage seem much more....fun!
But yes, I can tell when the force fields have worn off because they will instantly die. And I mean instantly....well Genin anyway.
SevTheMind: Ninja/Force Field Mastermind (main), SevTheSav: Stone/Regen Brute SevTheShocker: Claws/Electric Brute,SevTheComet: Fire/Pain Corruptor,SevTheSaint: Illusion/Radiation Controller,SevTheShaft: Dual Pistols/Devices Blaster,SevTheSuave: Mind/Dark Dominator,SevTheDevv: Demon/Dark Mastermind (redside),SevTheCinder: Fire/Fire Blaster (Praetoria)
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My 3 MM's have these as secondaries. Guess I'm doing something right, haha.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
(which is why secondaries like /FF, /Time, /Dark are recommended)
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SevTheMind: Ninja/Force Field Mastermind (main), SevTheSav: Stone/Regen Brute SevTheShocker: Claws/Electric Brute,SevTheComet: Fire/Pain Corruptor,SevTheSaint: Illusion/Radiation Controller,SevTheShaft: Dual Pistols/Devices Blaster,SevTheSuave: Mind/Dark Dominator,SevTheDevv: Demon/Dark Mastermind (redside),SevTheCinder: Fire/Fire Blaster (Praetoria)
Alright
So, I'm level 44, and have been finding the going somewhat easy with Nin/FF up until last night. I was on a team battling Nemmy in PI. Now, usually with teams my ninjas rarely fall. But last night they just kept getting drilled to the point that I couldn't even summon them and keep them alive long enough to add bubbles. It was pretty bad.
Now, I am also rolling a new Thug/Dark MM. I'm only at lvl 12 right now, but I can already tell they will shine. Took out 2 lvl 13 bosses solo, which I know i couldn't do with ninjas way back when. So, I may have a new favorite after all...
SevTheMind: Ninja/Force Field Mastermind (main), SevTheSav: Stone/Regen Brute SevTheShocker: Claws/Electric Brute,SevTheComet: Fire/Pain Corruptor,SevTheSaint: Illusion/Radiation Controller,SevTheShaft: Dual Pistols/Devices Blaster,SevTheSuave: Mind/Dark Dominator,SevTheDevv: Demon/Dark Mastermind (redside),SevTheCinder: Fire/Fire Blaster (Praetoria)
Hrm. That is a lot of work to still be less effective than Thugs or Demons.
Working as intended.
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I hear what you're saying...it is a lot of work for sure, but as the old adage goes, it's not about the destination, but about the journey. The road with ninjas is fun. Same with Thugs. I also have Robots and Demons, both of which are not that fun in my opinion. To each their own. Now, at the endgame, I may say otherwise, but as I'm making progress through the lower levels I find that both robots and demons are just as squishy as ninjas were.....albeit WITH a force field or two. But that's moot since a buff is a buff (or debuff),and the bottom line is I still have to summon them frequently. The only difference is it's not as fun. Purely subjective, for sure.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
Hrm. That is a lot of work to still be less effective than Thugs or Demons.
Working as intended. |
SevTheMind: Ninja/Force Field Mastermind (main), SevTheSav: Stone/Regen Brute SevTheShocker: Claws/Electric Brute,SevTheComet: Fire/Pain Corruptor,SevTheSaint: Illusion/Radiation Controller,SevTheShaft: Dual Pistols/Devices Blaster,SevTheSuave: Mind/Dark Dominator,SevTheDevv: Demon/Dark Mastermind (redside),SevTheCinder: Fire/Fire Blaster (Praetoria)
Ninjas make the best pets.
(flinch)
Ok, so I've ready pages and pages about all the issues surrounding ninjas and their squishiness and lack of def/res. But I believe that is the trade off for such awesome damage capability, and it just means you have to play to that style.
Couple things I do to keep them alive. Oh, and I have FF as secondary
(flinch)
- Don't use bodyguard mode. They are squishy, and if you let them run around untamed they will not be able to go toe to toe with any one foe, even with 3 shields up. Simply have ALL attack individual targets and continue to switch, timing the switch just as one dies to keep up the momentum.
- Buff, buff, and buff. It is quite a pain to summon, train, and then throw on all the buffs, but it's necessary. And take all the buffs you can get. I've got all the FFs, grant invis, all leadership....and one more I forget. Make sure they are all active before you go into battle.
- Green inspirations. Have plenty of them. Even though heal other is available, it is merely a crutch and cannot really be used in the heat of a battle.
- Pull. You do this by selecting a target, hitting attack, and then immediately click follow (defensive). They will run back to you and only attack the pulled target, putting distance between you and the mob whenever necessary.
- If all else fails, personal FF, and RUN! Through up personal force field and get the heck out of there. Leave the pets (do not let them follow and bring enemies to you!) and re-summon. I've tried to use personal FF to allow me to tank and let bodyguard mode distribute damage, but this only results in slower kills and still high chance for ninjas to die. PFF (coupled with Invisibility) is my last resort to stay alive.
I have heard a lot of negative things about this combo (Ninja/FF), but in my experience I've had the quickest kill rate out of the other pet primaries. And, if I'm on a team with healers or other buff-heavy members, they are unstoppable.
And, they are quiet!!! No grunting or heavy breathing, snarling, howling, or loud footsteps. Ahhhh.....
SevTheMind: Ninja/Force Field Mastermind (main), SevTheSav: Stone/Regen Brute SevTheShocker: Claws/Electric Brute,SevTheComet: Fire/Pain Corruptor,SevTheSaint: Illusion/Radiation Controller,SevTheShaft: Dual Pistols/Devices Blaster,SevTheSuave: Mind/Dark Dominator,SevTheDevv: Demon/Dark Mastermind (redside),SevTheCinder: Fire/Fire Blaster (Praetoria)