Zero do not go for defence on a squishy in a pvp zone it is literally impossible to go above 22%.
But is the ideal target defense number still 45% in PvP, as it is in PvE? does this mean that PvE defense numbers essentially get halved in a PvP zone?
Curently up to 90 active toons of all ATs and Powersets across every server.
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Simply put, the developers thought that defense on a squishy would be too powerful, so they've implemented changes to squishies, assuring they can't get any useful amount of defense.|
Originally Posted by Van_Raye
But is the ideal target defense number still 45% in PvP, as it is in PvE? does this mean that PvE defense numbers essentially get halved in a PvP zone?
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Diminishing returns affects defense, meaning it's not simply halved but rather it's a curve that slowly diminishes as you follow it.
For squishies, having 45% defense, 70% defense or 3000% defense is relatively the same. They're all useless.
I would suggest every Blaster/Cor/Dom/Defender/Controller/MM to avoid specifically trying to get defense.
Lastly, 45% defense works in PvE because all critters have the same base tohit (50%), and +tohit buffs are not that common.
In PvP, +tohit buffs are on every character and they range from small to huge. While 45% would work if nobody had +tohit buffs, you need anywhere from %60+ defense to floor their tohit.
I believe an individual would need around 220% defense or so in order to have that number permanently, and that's only on the ATs not listed above.
I don't have any experience with Grav/FF controllers. If you post a build, we may be able to critique it. I'm fairly sure you'd have to go purely with 'disruption', which is creating a hassle for your opponents.
Force bubble to repel
Force bolt to KB
Wormhole to teleport
Grav hold now and then to help a spike
Those would be your primary techniques.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Van_Raye
But is the ideal target defense number still 45% in PvP, as it is in PvE? does this mean that PvE defense numbers essentially get halved in a PvP zone?
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Interestingly I actually asked this same question almost a year ago and here is what Arcana posted:
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Originally Posted by The_Masque  Arcana- I have a question about the def table. Whenever I hear people talking about soft cap, we always say that there is a 50% chance for NPCs to miss so our true def is whatever our monitored value +50% = defense (up to 95%). Does this hold true in PvP? Im looking at the B group and it would appear that they would be able to achieve "soft cap" in pvp (of course +to hit and such would reduce the effectiveness of this) but am I reading your table correctly? Basically yes, but let me back up a second. The soft cap in PvE comes from the fact that the base tohit of most critters is 50%. Many have accuracy bonuses that mean they hit more often than that, but the game enforces a minimum floor of 5% that defense can reduce tohit. So very simply, your overall chance to hit is Acc * (Tohit - Def) and the inside of the parenthesis cannot drop lower than 5%. Thus, if most critters have 50% base tohit, no matter how much accuracy they might also have, the maximum effective defense you can have is 45%, which reduces that net amount to 5%. More than that and you're still stuck at 5%. Note that if the attacker has accuracy, the worst their net tohit can drop is Acc * (5%) which is always higher than 5%. The catch to the soft cap is that it has two really big caveats. The soft cap is 45% so long as the attacker a) doesn't have tohit buffs and b) doesn't debuff your defense. Obviously, if you're being defense debuffed, even if the soft cap is 45% having more defense than that helps. And obviously if the attacker has tohit buffs having more defense helps because the soft cap isn't 45% anymore: its their net tohit - 5%. If the attacker has +10% tohit, then their overall tohit is 60%, and the defense necessary to bring them to the minimum is 55%. Players in PvP have the same base 50% chance to hit each other that most critters have to hit us in PvE. But while in PvE tohit buffs are less common, in PvP they are very common. So the notion of a "soft-cap" in PvP is less useful. In PvP, you have to take a reasonable guess as to how much tohit buff your foes are likely to be packing, and then try to build for enough defense to drive that total to the floor - if you're trying to completely floor them. And that can be very difficult except in a team situation where you are stacking a lot of defense buffs on top of a tanker or something like that. |
As far as your original question about Defense and DR, Arcana also put together some 'cheater' tables to look at which I find really helpful:
Defense:
Code:
Base A B H 10% 8% 9% 9% 15% 11% 14% 13% 20% 13% 18% 16% 25% 15% 21% 19% 30% 16% 24% 22% 35% 17% 28% 24% 40% 18% 30% 26% 45% 18% 33% 28% 50% 19% 35% 30% 60% 19% 40% 32% 70% 20% 43% 34% 80% 20% 46% 35% 90% 20% 48% 37% 100% 20% 50% 37%
B = Scrap/Stalk/Brute/Tank/VEAT
H = HEATs
This is what Lucky was saying with your AT being a controller (group A) you can see that it looks like you will plateau at 20% defense.
There is one last component of 'defense' (really more protection) in PvP. Its called Elusivity.
I will be honest, I find it confusing and dont have a strong understanding of it or what powers provide elusivity. According to Paragon Wiki the only powers that use elusivity are:
Focused Fighting - SR
Personal Force Field- FF
I am pretty sure I have heard people state that it is also found with Shield and Energy Aura, and I wouldn't be suprized to see it also in Ninja Reflexes.
Here is a link to the wiki:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Elusivity
Hopefully, someone with a better understanding of elusivity can comment on it.
However, since you are looking at a grav/ff it something to consider when you use PFF.
lol, just as I post I find the information I was searching for.
Xury posted this a while back so again, I'm sure the list isn't complete but:
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Originally Posted by Xury2
List, here you go:
Blaster: Ancillary Powers: (Cold Mastery) Frozen Armor: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% (Force Mastery)Personal Force Field: BaseElusivity +80% Controller: Secondary Power: (Force Field) Personal Force Field: BaseElusivity +80% Ancillary Powers: (Ice Mastery) Frozen Armor: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% (Stone Mastery) Rock Armor: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% Defender: Primary Powers: Personal Force Field: BaseElusivity +80% Scrapper: Secondary Powers: (Shield Defense) Deflection: MeleeElusivity, PsionicElusivity +30% (Shield Defense) Battle Agility: RangedElusivity, AoEElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Focused Fighting: MeleeElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Focused Senses: RangedElusivity, PsionicElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Evasion: AoEElusivity +30% Tanker: Primary Powers: (Ice Armor) Frozen Armor: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity +30% (Ice Armor) Glacial Armor: PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% (Shield Defense) Deflection: MeleeElusivity, PsionicElusivity +30% (Shield Defense) Battle Agility: RangedElusivity, AoEElusivity +30% (Stone Armor) Rock Armor: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity +30% (Stone Armor) Crystal Armor: EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% (Stone Armor) Minerals: PsionicElusivity +30% Kheldians: No Elusivity for Squids. Not Peacebringer or Warshade. Brute: Secondary Powers: (Energy Armor) Kinetic Shield: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, EnergyElusivity +30% (Energy Armor) Power Shield: ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% (Energy Armor) Overload: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +20% (Shield Defense) Deflection: MeleeElusivity, PsionicElusivity +30% (Shield Defense) Battle Agility: RangedElusivity, AoEElusivity +30% (Stone Armor) Rock Armor: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity +30% (Stone Armor) Crystal Armor: EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% (Stone Armor) Minerals: PsionicElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Focused Fighting: MeleeElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Focused Senses: RangedElusivity, PsionicElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Evasion: AoEElusivity +30% Stalker: Secondary Powers: (Energy Armor) Kinetic Shield: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, EnergyElusivity +30% (Energy Armor) Power Shield: ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% (Ninjitsu) Ninja Reflexes: MeleeElusivity +30% (Ninjitsu) Danger Sense: RangedElusivity, AoEElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Focused Fighting: MeleeElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Focused Senses: RangedElusivity, PsionicElusivity +30% (Super Reflexes) Evasion: AoEElusivity +30% Mastermind: Secondary Powers: (Force Field) Personal Force Field: BaseElusivity +80% Patron Powers: (Mace Mastery) Scorpion Shield: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% Dominator: Patron Powers: (Mace Mastery) Personal Force Field: BaseElusivity +80% (Mace Mastery) Scorpion Shield: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% Corrupter Patron Powers: (Mace Mastery) Scorpion Shield: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, EnergyElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30% Arachnos Soldier: Would you believe None whatsoever? Arachnos Widdow: (Teamwork) Foresight: MeleeElusivity, RangedElusivity, AoEElusivity +30% That's about it. The general rule (With the exception of the Arachnos Widdow and Overload) is primary defense toggles get elusivity. Epic shields that are toggles also get the same. Only the widdow gets elusivity as an auto power. |
That list is somewhat outdated, since Elusivity got toned down shortly after to 10% I think.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Hiyas,
I thought I'd try to make a PvP build for a gravity/force field controller. I was wondering what kind of defense numbers I should aim for, I imagine it's a bit different than in PvE.
I'm a total PvP amateur, so any extra advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Curently up to 90 active toons of all ATs and Powersets across every server.